PR issues (was: several messages)

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

Steven Noels wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > One is an older one that is not from a big company, and is
> > seemingly and finally starting to get squared away.  The
> > other one is a recent submission that more closely fits
> > your description, and concerns have been raised to the
> > contributor about it.

> Perhaps also a hint towards Brian's feelings about evolving
> discussion styles: could we name things here? I see reference
> to specific "projects" but cannot/don't want to name-guess.

I don't believe that this is what Brian meant about evolving discussion
styles.  I believe he was referring to a defensive mode of discussion versus
trying to more constructively address concerns being raised.

Brian has a perfectly valid concern, which to restore context is:

> > > it's interesting to note that those incubator projects that
> > > consist of code from larger companies and associated with
> > > a big-bang PR tend to not see as much participation in the
> > > incubator as the more grass-roots proposals like Geronimo
> > > or the more modest launches like XMLBeans.  So I'm trying
> > > to explore why, and how can we improve.

Without wanting to mention names, I agree with Brian about the problem, but
also observe that this has happened with the source having been visible
prior to Incubation.  So that's why I separate those two issues, and concur
with a goal to improve participation, and prevent abuse of the Incubator for
PR purposes.

I have suggested to the PRC folks some basic guidelines for Incubator
related PR:

  - promote the ASF as a place for exciting new things.
  - attract developers to help build them.
  - require Incubator branding since while these communities
    are in the Incubator incubated, they do not have the
    imprimatur of being official ASF projects.
  - discourage PR prior to actually bringing the project to the ASF.

The last item gets into timing issues, but we don't want a situation were we
have an extensive period of PR and have to keep prodding the Grantor to
start incubation.

	--- Noel


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