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Posted to user@flink.apache.org by Gavin Lee <ga...@gmail.com> on 2021/12/01 10:12:43 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate Java 8 support
Thanks for sharing this info with us Chesnay.
We've been using Flink for 5 years, and upgraded to 1.13.2 months ago. The
java version is still 8.
Currently we're testing with java 17 in our staging environment. There are
no special concerns.
Will update when tests complete.
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:18 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> we recently had a discussion on the dev mailing list for deprecating
> support for Java 8 in 1.15, with a general consensus in favor of it.
>
> I now wanted to check in with you, our users, to see what you have got to
> say about that.
>
> Why are we interested in deprecating Java 8 support now (and in eventually
> removing it)?
>
> The main reason is that supporting the recently released Java 17 (and
> subsequent versions), while maintaining Java 8 support,
> will be more complicated than if Java 11 were the oldest release version.
> Essentially because Java 11/17 have both crossed the Java 9 chasm.
>
> We will still have to bite this bullet in any case (because Java 17 is out *now
> *but we are *not *dropping Java 8 *now*), but we would still
> like to signal that users should upgrade to Java 11 so that we can
> *eventually* clean this up.
>
> Furthermore, it is currently hard to justify investing time into
> benchmarks/performance improvements that are specific to Java 11+, because
> they provide no benefit to Java 8.
> What does the deprecation mean exactly?
>
> It will primarily mean that a warning will be logged when you run Flink on
> Java 8.
> We *may* change the default Java version of the Docker images to Java 11
> (the java8 tags will remain),
> and we will put a larger emphasis on Flink's performance on Java 11.
> Does that mean that Java 8 support will be removed in 1.16/1.17?
>
> No. We are not putting a hard-date on the removal of Java 8 support at
> this time.
> Will this mean that at some point we'll surprise you with the removal of
> Java 8 support in the next release?
>
> No. We will announce the removal ahead of time by *at least* half a year
> / 2+ releases (probably closer to a full year).
> Is the deprecation already decided?
>
> No. The responses in this thread are integral for deciding whether a
> deprecation at this time makes sense.
>
>
> If you are still using Java 8 at the moment, then we would appreciate if
> you could tell us whether you already have a time-frame for
> when you intend to upgrade to Java 11. We'd also be interested in anything
> that blocks your migration to Java 11.
>
>
> Please raise concerns you have, and feel free to ask questions.
>
--
Gavin
Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate Java 8 support
Posted by Nicolás Ferrario <nf...@gmail.com>.
Oh my bad, it must be Statefun then. I remember I needed to play around
with that for _some_ build.
On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 7:48 PM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> Flink can be built with Java 11 since 1.10. If I recall correctly we
> solved the tools.jar issue, which Hadoop depends on, by excluding that
> dependency. As far as we could tell it's not actually required.
>
> On 01/12/2021 19:56, Nicolás Ferrario wrote:
>
> Hi all, this would be awesome, I'm so tired of seeing Java 8 everywhere
> (reminds me of Python 2.7).
>
> We're currently building our code against Java 11 because that's the
> latest version of Java available as a Flink Docker image, but it'd be great
> to use newer versions. I think it would also help to clean up dependencies
> and hopefully no longer have incompatibility issues.
> For example, right now it's not possible to build Flink with Java 9+
> because of a Maven dependency. Using JDK 8 or copying "tools.jar" to any
> newer JDK version fixes it (see more:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53707666/how-to-get-tools-jar-for-openjdk-11-on-windows
> ).
>
> Official support for Java 17 would be great.
>
> Greetings!
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 7:51 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Gavin,
>>
>> If you run into any issues with Java 17, please report them in
>> FLINK-15736 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-15736>.
>> I recently did some experiments with Java 17 myself; I would think that
>> you will run into some blockers (like ASM requiring an upgrade
>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-24978>, or missing
>> --add-opens/--add-exports
>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-25002>).
>>
>> On 01/12/2021 11:12, Gavin Lee wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this info with us Chesnay.
>> We've been using Flink for 5 years, and upgraded to 1.13.2 months ago.
>> The java version is still 8.
>> Currently we're testing with java 17 in our staging environment. There
>> are no special concerns.
>> Will update when tests complete.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:18 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> we recently had a discussion on the dev mailing list for deprecating
>>> support for Java 8 in 1.15, with a general consensus in favor of it.
>>>
>>> I now wanted to check in with you, our users, to see what you have got
>>> to say about that.
>>>
>>> Why are we interested in deprecating Java 8 support now (and in
>>> eventually removing it)?
>>>
>>> The main reason is that supporting the recently released Java 17 (and
>>> subsequent versions), while maintaining Java 8 support,
>>> will be more complicated than if Java 11 were the oldest release
>>> version. Essentially because Java 11/17 have both crossed the Java 9 chasm.
>>>
>>> We will still have to bite this bullet in any case (because Java 17 is
>>> out *now *but we are *not *dropping Java 8 *now*), but we would still
>>> like to signal that users should upgrade to Java 11 so that we can
>>> *eventually* clean this up.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, it is currently hard to justify investing time into
>>> benchmarks/performance improvements that are specific to Java 11+, because
>>> they provide no benefit to Java 8.
>>> What does the deprecation mean exactly?
>>>
>>> It will primarily mean that a warning will be logged when you run Flink
>>> on Java 8.
>>> We *may* change the default Java version of the Docker images to Java
>>> 11 (the java8 tags will remain),
>>> and we will put a larger emphasis on Flink's performance on Java 11.
>>> Does that mean that Java 8 support will be removed in 1.16/1.17?
>>>
>>> No. We are not putting a hard-date on the removal of Java 8 support at
>>> this time.
>>> Will this mean that at some point we'll surprise you with the removal of
>>> Java 8 support in the next release?
>>>
>>> No. We will announce the removal ahead of time by *at least* half a
>>> year / 2+ releases (probably closer to a full year).
>>> Is the deprecation already decided?
>>>
>>> No. The responses in this thread are integral for deciding whether a
>>> deprecation at this time makes sense.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are still using Java 8 at the moment, then we would appreciate if
>>> you could tell us whether you already have a time-frame for
>>> when you intend to upgrade to Java 11. We'd also be interested in
>>> anything that blocks your migration to Java 11.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please raise concerns you have, and feel free to ask questions.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gavin
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate Java 8 support
Posted by Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>.
Flink can be built with Java 11 since 1.10. If I recall correctly we
solved the tools.jar issue, which Hadoop depends on, by excluding that
dependency. As far as we could tell it's not actually required.
On 01/12/2021 19:56, Nicolás Ferrario wrote:
> Hi all, this would be awesome, I'm so tired of seeing Java 8
> everywhere (reminds me of Python 2.7).
>
> We're currently building our code against Java 11 because that's the
> latest version of Java available as a Flink Docker image, but it'd be
> great to use newer versions. I think it would also help to clean up
> dependencies and hopefully no longer have incompatibility issues.
> For example, right now it's not possible to build Flink with Java 9+
> because of a Maven dependency. Using JDK 8 or copying "tools.jar" to
> any newer JDK version fixes it (see more:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53707666/how-to-get-tools-jar-for-openjdk-11-on-windows).
>
> Official support for Java 17 would be great.
>
> Greetings!
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 7:51 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Gavin,
>
> If you run into any issues with Java 17, please report them in
> FLINK-15736 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-15736>.
> I recently did some experiments with Java 17 myself; I would think
> that you will run into some blockers (like ASM requiring an
> upgrade <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-24978>, or
> missing --add-opens/--add-exports
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-25002>).
>
> On 01/12/2021 11:12, Gavin Lee wrote:
>> Thanks for sharing this info with us Chesnay.
>> We've been using Flink for 5 years, and upgraded to 1.13.2
>> months ago. The java version is still 8.
>> Currently we're testing with java 17 in our staging environment.
>> There are no special concerns.
>> Will update when tests complete.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:18 AM Chesnay Schepler
>> <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> we recently had a discussion on the dev mailing list for
>> deprecating support for Java 8 in 1.15, with a general
>> consensus in favor of it.
>>
>> I now wanted to check in with you, our users, to see what you
>> have got to say about that.
>>
>>
>> Why are we interested in deprecating Java 8 support
>> now (and in eventually removing it)?
>>
>> The main reason is that supporting the recently released Java
>> 17 (and subsequent versions), while maintaining Java 8 support,
>> will be more complicated than if Java 11 were the oldest
>> release version. Essentially because Java 11/17 have both
>> crossed the Java 9 chasm.
>>
>> We will still have to bite this bullet in any case (because
>> Java 17 is out /now /but we are /not /dropping Java 8 /now/),
>> but we would still
>> like to signal that users should upgrade to Java 11 so that
>> we can /eventually/ clean this up.
>>
>> Furthermore, it is currently hard to justify investing time
>> into benchmarks/performance improvements that are specific to
>> Java 11+, because
>> they provide no benefit to Java 8.
>>
>>
>> What does the deprecation mean exactly?
>>
>> It will primarily mean that a warning will be logged when you
>> run Flink on Java 8.
>> We /may/ change the default Java version of the Docker images
>> to Java 11 (the java8 tags will remain),
>> and we will put a larger emphasis on Flink's performance on
>> Java 11.
>>
>>
>> Does that mean that Java 8 support will be removed in
>> 1.16/1.17?
>>
>> No. We are not putting a hard-date on the removal of Java 8
>> support at this time.
>>
>>
>> Will this mean that at some point we'll surprise you
>> with the removal of Java 8 support in the next release?
>>
>> No. We will announce the removal ahead of time by /at least/
>> half a year / 2+ releases (probably closer to a full year).
>>
>>
>> Is the deprecation already decided?
>>
>> No. The responses in this thread are integral for deciding
>> whether a deprecation at this time makes sense.
>>
>>
>> If you are still using Java 8 at the moment, then we would
>> appreciate if you could tell us whether you already have a
>> time-frame for
>> when you intend to upgrade to Java 11. We'd also be
>> interested in anything that blocks your migration to Java 11.
>>
>>
>> Please raise concerns you have, and feel free to ask questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gavin
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate Java 8 support
Posted by Nicolás Ferrario <nf...@gmail.com>.
Hi all, this would be awesome, I'm so tired of seeing Java 8 everywhere
(reminds me of Python 2.7).
We're currently building our code against Java 11 because that's the latest
version of Java available as a Flink Docker image, but it'd be great to use
newer versions. I think it would also help to clean up dependencies and
hopefully no longer have incompatibility issues.
For example, right now it's not possible to build Flink with Java 9+
because of a Maven dependency. Using JDK 8 or copying "tools.jar" to any
newer JDK version fixes it (see more:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53707666/how-to-get-tools-jar-for-openjdk-11-on-windows
).
Official support for Java 17 would be great.
Greetings!
On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 7:51 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello Gavin,
>
> If you run into any issues with Java 17, please report them in FLINK-15736
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-15736>.
> I recently did some experiments with Java 17 myself; I would think that
> you will run into some blockers (like ASM requiring an upgrade
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-24978>, or missing
> --add-opens/--add-exports
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-25002>).
>
> On 01/12/2021 11:12, Gavin Lee wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing this info with us Chesnay.
> We've been using Flink for 5 years, and upgraded to 1.13.2 months ago.
> The java version is still 8.
> Currently we're testing with java 17 in our staging environment. There are
> no special concerns.
> Will update when tests complete.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:18 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> we recently had a discussion on the dev mailing list for deprecating
>> support for Java 8 in 1.15, with a general consensus in favor of it.
>>
>> I now wanted to check in with you, our users, to see what you have got to
>> say about that.
>>
>> Why are we interested in deprecating Java 8 support now (and in
>> eventually removing it)?
>>
>> The main reason is that supporting the recently released Java 17 (and
>> subsequent versions), while maintaining Java 8 support,
>> will be more complicated than if Java 11 were the oldest release version.
>> Essentially because Java 11/17 have both crossed the Java 9 chasm.
>>
>> We will still have to bite this bullet in any case (because Java 17 is
>> out *now *but we are *not *dropping Java 8 *now*), but we would still
>> like to signal that users should upgrade to Java 11 so that we can
>> *eventually* clean this up.
>>
>> Furthermore, it is currently hard to justify investing time into
>> benchmarks/performance improvements that are specific to Java 11+, because
>> they provide no benefit to Java 8.
>> What does the deprecation mean exactly?
>>
>> It will primarily mean that a warning will be logged when you run Flink
>> on Java 8.
>> We *may* change the default Java version of the Docker images to Java 11
>> (the java8 tags will remain),
>> and we will put a larger emphasis on Flink's performance on Java 11.
>> Does that mean that Java 8 support will be removed in 1.16/1.17?
>>
>> No. We are not putting a hard-date on the removal of Java 8 support at
>> this time.
>> Will this mean that at some point we'll surprise you with the removal of
>> Java 8 support in the next release?
>>
>> No. We will announce the removal ahead of time by *at least* half a year
>> / 2+ releases (probably closer to a full year).
>> Is the deprecation already decided?
>>
>> No. The responses in this thread are integral for deciding whether a
>> deprecation at this time makes sense.
>>
>>
>> If you are still using Java 8 at the moment, then we would appreciate if
>> you could tell us whether you already have a time-frame for
>> when you intend to upgrade to Java 11. We'd also be interested in
>> anything that blocks your migration to Java 11.
>>
>>
>> Please raise concerns you have, and feel free to ask questions.
>>
>
>
> --
> Gavin
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate Java 8 support
Posted by Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>.
Hello Gavin,
If you run into any issues with Java 17, please report them in
FLINK-15736 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-15736>.
I recently did some experiments with Java 17 myself; I would think that
you will run into some blockers (like ASM requiring an upgrade
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-24978>, or missing
--add-opens/--add-exports
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-25002>).
On 01/12/2021 11:12, Gavin Lee wrote:
> Thanks for sharing this info with us Chesnay.
> We've been using Flink for 5 years, and upgraded to 1.13.2 months
> ago. The java version is still 8.
> Currently we're testing with java 17 in our staging environment. There
> are no special concerns.
> Will update when tests complete.
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 1:18 AM Chesnay Schepler <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> we recently had a discussion on the dev mailing list for
> deprecating support for Java 8 in 1.15, with a general consensus
> in favor of it.
>
> I now wanted to check in with you, our users, to see what you have
> got to say about that.
>
>
> Why are we interested in deprecating Java 8 support now
> (and in eventually removing it)?
>
> The main reason is that supporting the recently released Java 17
> (and subsequent versions), while maintaining Java 8 support,
> will be more complicated than if Java 11 were the oldest release
> version. Essentially because Java 11/17 have both crossed the Java
> 9 chasm.
>
> We will still have to bite this bullet in any case (because Java
> 17 is out /now /but we are /not /dropping Java 8 /now/), but we
> would still
> like to signal that users should upgrade to Java 11 so that we can
> /eventually/ clean this up.
>
> Furthermore, it is currently hard to justify investing time into
> benchmarks/performance improvements that are specific to Java 11+,
> because
> they provide no benefit to Java 8.
>
>
> What does the deprecation mean exactly?
>
> It will primarily mean that a warning will be logged when you run
> Flink on Java 8.
> We /may/ change the default Java version of the Docker images to
> Java 11 (the java8 tags will remain),
> and we will put a larger emphasis on Flink's performance on Java 11.
>
>
> Does that mean that Java 8 support will be removed in
> 1.16/1.17?
>
> No. We are not putting a hard-date on the removal of Java 8
> support at this time.
>
>
> Will this mean that at some point we'll surprise you with
> the removal of Java 8 support in the next release?
>
> No. We will announce the removal ahead of time by /at least/ half
> a year / 2+ releases (probably closer to a full year).
>
>
> Is the deprecation already decided?
>
> No. The responses in this thread are integral for deciding whether
> a deprecation at this time makes sense.
>
>
> If you are still using Java 8 at the moment, then we would
> appreciate if you could tell us whether you already have a
> time-frame for
> when you intend to upgrade to Java 11. We'd also be interested in
> anything that blocks your migration to Java 11.
>
>
> Please raise concerns you have, and feel free to ask questions.
>
>
>
> --
> Gavin