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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Christian Bollmeyer <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de> on 2005/07/07 01:31:12 UTC
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
Hi,
> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>
> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>
> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> of the press etc).
Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>
> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
would use a company e-mail address for anything other
than business communication, and whoever deliberately
chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
-- Christian.
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com>.
Brandon:
Now you perhaps have seen his email. Was he joking? No he was very serious.
--- Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yan Hu,
>
> Take it down a notch amigo. If you hadn't noticed we were being
> playful. Maybe they don't have a since of humor in other countries ;-)
> <-- please notice wink face so that you are not offended and under the
> assumption that i am serious.
>
> Brandon
>
> On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this your personal
> playground
> > to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate the game.
> >
> > --- Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Brandon-
> > > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
> > > premises
> > > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > > 1c/hour
> > > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
> > > habits..
> > > Viel Gluck,
> > > M-
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
> > > <mg...@hotmail.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> > >
> > > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> > > > wrong religious views
> > > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > > views)
> > > > get work in Germany
> > > > Vielen Danke,
> > > > Martin-
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> > > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > > > [OT]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > > > >> of the press etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > > > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > > > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > > > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > > > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > > > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > > > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > > > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > > > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > > > >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > > > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > > > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > > > >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > > > >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > > > >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > > > >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> > > > >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> > > > >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> > > > >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > > > >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> > > > > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > > > > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > > > > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > > > > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > > > > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > > > > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > > > > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > > > > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> > > > > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > > > > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > > > > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > > > > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > > > > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > > > > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > > > > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > > > > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> > > > >
> > > > >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > > > >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> > > > >
> > > > > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > > > > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Christian.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
Yan Hu,
Take it down a notch amigo. If you hadn't noticed we were being
playful. Maybe they don't have a since of humor in other countries ;-)
<-- please notice wink face so that you are not offended and under the
assumption that i am serious.
Brandon
On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this your personal playground
> to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate the game.
>
> --- Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brandon-
> > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
> > premises
> > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > 1c/hour
> > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
> > habits..
> > Viel Gluck,
> > M-
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
> > <mg...@hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> >
> >
> > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> >
> > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> > > wrong religious views
> > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > views)
> > > get work in Germany
> > > Vielen Danke,
> > > Martin-
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > >>
> > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > >>
> > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > > >> of the press etc).
> > > >
> > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > > >
> > > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > > >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > > >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > > >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > > >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > > >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> > > >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> > > >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> > > >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > > >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> > > >
> > > > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> > > > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > > > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > > > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > > > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > > > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > > > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > > > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > > > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> > > > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > > > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > > > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > > > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > > > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > > > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > > > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > > > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> > > >
> > > >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > > >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> > > >
> > > > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > > > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> > > >
> > > > -- Christian.
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
Yan Hu is our new troll! I wonder if Yan Hu is some kind of ancient
code for Mark Galbreath :D Mark is that you?
On 7/8/05, DGraham@evergreeninvestments.com
<DG...@evergreeninvestments.com> wrote:
> And so, the circle is complete.
>
> :)
>
> - Dennis
>
>
> "James Mitchell" <jm...@apache.org>
> 07/08/2005 04:43 PM
> Please respond to
> "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>
>
> To
> "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>, "Andrew Tomaka"
> <at...@gmail.com>
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut
> up
> and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> deserve a break every now and then.
>
> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every decent
>
> mail client will allow you to do that.
>
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
> EdgeTech, Inc.
> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
> 678.910.8017
> AIM: jmitchtx
> MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
> Skype: jmitchtx
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Tomaka" <at...@gmail.com>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.
>
> How about we all grow up and act like adults? Never in my life have I
> seen such a childish display. I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
> mom." made the same point I'm making here. And Yan, you may have
> given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
> it was directed at anyone else.
>
> This is supposed to be a list of professionals. We are all here
> trying to help one another through our Struts issues. I fail to see
> how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
> anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
> the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list. And I certainly
> don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
> you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.
>
> When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
> I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
> were asking. But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
> good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
> discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
> an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
>
> Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> of Sturts: making our lives easier.
>
> ~ Andrew Tomaka
>
>
> On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > ROFL
> > >
> > > Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
> >
> > hahaha +1
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Was [OT] Re: Fired???? ...
Posted by Michael Taylor <mt...@txesystems.com>.
I move that we adjourn this thread. Nothing to see here. Please move
along.
Cheers,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Taylor
TXE Systems, Inc.
mtaylor@txesystems.com
>
>
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
There are people who are taking things way too serious around here.
They fall into two groups. #1 The easily offended #2 The lude and
discourteous. What is funny is often they are one and the same.
My comments have been very light hearted and not intended to offend.
If folks take the lighter comments to heart then they need to relax.
If you have people who are being clearly lude, then we should ignore
them (advice i need to take).
At the same time, what community doesn't have light hearted jest. To
take offense at silly jokes about H1Bs or to go off in a serious rage
on an H1B is silly. Both sides need to take a breath.
People, please, lighten up, lose the profane language and serious
hateful attitudes. We are all here to participate in the Struts
community. That doesn't mean we have to be stuffy. But, it does mean
that we should have an edge of courtesy.
For now I'll refrain from engaging in any off-topic discussions. I
hope that people can take it down a notch and relax, then, maybe, we
can learn struts, have some fun and still be a friendly community.
Brandon
On 7/8/05, Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up
> > and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> > deserve a break every now and then.
>
> And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on
> Fridays. With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too
> many abuses of that freedom lately (including this thread).
>
> > If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every decent
> > mail client will allow you to do that.
>
> Note that filtering is not a complete answer. Consider a scenario
> where you are subscribed to a list like this from your company email
> address, where you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever
> terms of use your company's IT department imposes on you. In more
> than a few companies, incoming email messages are scanned for
> inappropriate content -- and you could be violating the policies even
> if you have a personal filter set up so that *you* don't have to read
> the messages. "But I didn't read it" isn't going to be a very useful
> defense -- any more than if your mom caught you reading Playboy when
> growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the pictures, I was
> only reading the articles!"
>
> I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry
> colleague, who has been observing what's going on here:
> http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/07/08/Respect.html
>
> Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer,
> and builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still
> consider him a friend, like many things about his product, and
> collaborate with him where possible to improve the overall state of
> the industry. I wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about
> respect, and would like to see a return to the way that the Struts
> user list worked (nearly all of the time) until fairly recently --
> where respect was the norm. Today it is not ... and even in jest many
> of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing (to the rest of the
> community, for having to be associated with it).
>
> If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find
> a different place to cut loose. The purpose of this list is to answer
> user questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and
> you'll sure like how you look on a Google search ten years from now
> for your name if you've posted like a mature adult instead of an
> immature 8-year-old.
>
> Craig McClanahan
>
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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Nitesh Naveen <ni...@cordiant.net>.
I agree with Craig here...
He is quiet right about the mailing problem...
I had been using my company id and have been told by them to unsubscribe
from the due to the volume of messages coming in.
Despite the volume if the mails had something to defend I could've done it.
But the never ending flow of OTs like these which are of no use to anyone is
not quiet the way anyone would like!
Friday of the week is over... At least from this point on let us cut this
off.
Regards,
Nitesh
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-----Original Message-----
From: Craig McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:04 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
> Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to
> cut up and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on
> this list to deserve a break every now and then.
And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on Fridays.
With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too many abuses of
that freedom lately (including this thread).
> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every
> decent mail client will allow you to do that.
Note that filtering is not a complete answer. Consider a scenario where you
are subscribed to a list like this from your company email address, where
you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever terms of use your
company's IT department imposes on you. In more than a few companies,
incoming email messages are scanned for inappropriate content -- and you
could be violating the policies even if you have a personal filter set up so
that *you* don't have to read the messages. "But I didn't read it" isn't
going to be a very useful defense -- any more than if your mom caught you
reading Playboy when growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the
pictures, I was only reading the articles!"
I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry colleague,
who has been observing what's going on here:
http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/0
7/08/Respect.html
Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer, and
builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still consider
him a friend, like many things about his product, and collaborate with him
where possible to improve the overall state of the industry. I
wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about respect, and would like to
see a return to the way that the Struts user list worked (nearly all of the
time) until fairly recently -- where respect was the norm. Today it is not
... and even in jest many of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing
(to the rest of the community, for having to be associated with it).
If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find a
different place to cut loose. The purpose of this list is to answer user
questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and you'll sure
like how you look on a Google search ten years from now for your name if
you've posted like a mature adult instead of an immature 8-year-old.
Craig McClanahan
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 7/8/05, James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
> Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up
> and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
> deserve a break every now and then.
And perhaps its time to reign in the freedom to cut up a little on
Fridays. With freedom comes responsibility, and there's been way too
many abuses of that freedom lately (including this thread).
> If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every decent
> mail client will allow you to do that.
Note that filtering is not a complete answer. Consider a scenario
where you are subscribed to a list like this from your company email
address, where you have (explicitly or implicitly) agreed to whatever
terms of use your company's IT department imposes on you. In more
than a few companies, incoming email messages are scanned for
inappropriate content -- and you could be violating the policies even
if you have a personal filter set up so that *you* don't have to read
the messages. "But I didn't read it" isn't going to be a very useful
defense -- any more than if your mom caught you reading Playboy when
growing up, and you tried "but I didn't look at the pictures, I was
only reading the articles!"
I'd like to point you at a blog written recently by an industry
colleague, who has been observing what's going on here:
http://www.groundside.com/blog/content/DuncanMills/J2EE%20Development/2005/07/08/Respect.html
Even though Duncan works for a company that competes with my employer,
and builds a tool that is competitive with the one I work on, I still
consider him a friend, like many things about his product, and
collaborate with him where possible to improve the overall state of
the industry. I wholeheartedly subscribe to his comments about
respect, and would like to see a return to the way that the Struts
user list worked (nearly all of the time) until fairly recently --
where respect was the norm. Today it is not ... and even in jest many
of the comments are innappropriate and embarrasing (to the rest of the
community, for having to be associated with it).
If you're only here for the Friday [OT] humor, then I suggest you find
a different place to cut loose. The purpose of this list is to answer
user questions about Struts and all its related technologies -- and
you'll sure like how you look on a Google search ten years from now
for your name if you've posted like a mature adult instead of an
immature 8-year-old.
Craig McClanahan
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by DG...@EvergreenInvestments.com.
And so, the circle is complete.
:)
- Dennis
"James Mitchell" <jm...@apache.org>
07/08/2005 04:43 PM
Please respond to
"Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
To
"Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>, "Andrew Tomaka"
<at...@gmail.com>
cc
Subject
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut
up
and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
deserve a break every now and then.
If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every decent
mail client will allow you to do that.
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM: jmitchtx
MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
Skype: jmitchtx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Tomaka" <at...@gmail.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
[OT]
I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.
How about we all grow up and act like adults? Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display. I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here. And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.
This is supposed to be a list of professionals. We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues. I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list. And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.
When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking. But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.
~ Andrew Tomaka
On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
>
> hahaha +1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
Andrew, you must be new here. See, on Fridays (usually), we like to cut up
and have a little fun. I think I've donated enough blood on this list to
deserve a break every now and then.
If you don't like wasting time with [OT] posts, filter them. Every decent
mail client will allow you to do that.
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM: jmitchtx
MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
Skype: jmitchtx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Tomaka" <at...@gmail.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.
How about we all grow up and act like adults? Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display. I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here. And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.
This is supposed to be a list of professionals. We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues. I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list. And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.
When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking. But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.
~ Andrew Tomaka
On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
>
> hahaha +1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by netsql <ne...@roomity.com>.
> Andrew Tomaka wrote the following on 7/8/2005 2:29 PM:
> in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
>> good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
>> discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
>> an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
>
>
> I'm guilty of this also.. so I apologize for contributing to the
> downhill discussion.
>
+1.
Let's all cut it out. Don't feed a pest.
.V
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Andrew Tomaka wrote the following on 7/8/2005 2:29 PM:
>
> When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
> I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
> were asking. But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
> good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
> discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
> an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
I'm guilty of this also.. so I apologize for contributing to the
downhill discussion.
Fortunately most users are still pretty helpful and still manage to help
out the people asking questions that get stuck between a million OT
posts:) As annoying/amusing(?:) many of the OT posts are on this list, I
still find more helpful people on this list than many of the lists I've
been on.
--
Rick
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations...now spellings[OT]
Posted by Larry Meadors <la...@gmail.com>.
...but a real bugger to google for - #? .net?
Too bad M$ couldn't somehow work an & and a ? into the name...
Hmm, C#&ASP.NET?
Looks like a cartoon character swearing...or me trying to write code
with vs.net.
Larry
PS: it is friday, right?
On 7/8/05, Brady Hegberg <br...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> Google results:
>
> struts: 2,330,000
> sturts: 7,470
> sruts: 1,700
> srtuts: 1,040
> strutus: 328
>
> The one big advantage of .net: it's easy to spell.
>
> -Brady
>
> > Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> > of Sturts: making our lives easier.
> >
> > ~ Andrew Tomaka
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations...now
spellings[OT]
Posted by Michael Taylor <mt...@txesystems.com>.
Too bad it also matches almost every ISP's domain name... :-O
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Taylor
TXE Systems, Inc.
mtaylor@txesystems.com
Brady Hegberg wrote:
>Google results:
>
>struts: 2,330,000
>sturts: 7,470
>sruts: 1,700
>srtuts: 1,040
>strutus: 328
>
>The one big advantage of .net: it's easy to spell.
>
>-Brady
>
>
>
>>Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
>>of Sturts: making our lives easier.
>>
>>~ Andrew Tomaka
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
>
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books
Recommendations...now spellings[OT]
Posted by Brady Hegberg <br...@bitstream.net>.
Google results:
struts: 2,330,000
sturts: 7,470
sruts: 1,700
srtuts: 1,040
strutus: 328
The one big advantage of .net: it's easy to spell.
-Brady
> Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
> of Sturts: making our lives easier.
>
> ~ Andrew Tomaka
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Andrew Tomaka <at...@gmail.com>.
I was trying to avoid jumping in here, but I couldn't hold out.
How about we all grow up and act like adults? Never in my life have I
seen such a childish display. I think Rick's "My mom can beat up your
mom." made the same point I'm making here. And Yan, you may have
given it a "hahaha +1," but that was directed at you just as much as
it was directed at anyone else.
This is supposed to be a list of professionals. We are all here
trying to help one another through our Struts issues. I fail to see
how making fun of some for using or not using an IDE or discussing
anti-discrimination laws or most everything that has been written in
the last two weeks applies to the goals of this list. And I certainly
don't see how saying things like "Can you even reason logically? Ha
you can not since you do not have a brain." helps anyone in anyway.
When I joined the Struts list in May, it was an invaluable resource.
I was able to quickly learn the framework through the questions others
were asking. But in the past few weeks, it's all gone downhill. A
good percentage of threads are now off-topic; not off topic like
discussing the pros and cons of using an IDE, but off topic like what
an H1B is and personal thoughts on outsourcing.
Why don't we get back to the reason this list exists and the purpose
of Sturts: making our lives easier.
~ Andrew Tomaka
On 7/8/05, Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > ROFL
> >
> > Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
>
> hahaha +1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com>.
--- James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org> wrote:
> ROFL
>
> Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
hahaha +1
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
ROFL
Oh ya! My mom can beat up your dad!
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM: jmitchtx
MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
Skype: jmitchtx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Reumann" <st...@reumann.net>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:
>
>> I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.
>
> My mom can beat up your mom.
>
> --
> Rick
>
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>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com>.
--- Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net> wrote:
> Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:
>
> > I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.
>
> My mom can beat up your mom.
>
> --
> Rick
Do you have a Mom? Come on man.. Be strong. I understand how tought life can be without a Mom?
But try to talk as if you had one...
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Yan Hu wrote the following on 7/8/2005 1:29 PM:
> I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.
My mom can beat up your mom.
--
Rick
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
Personally, I try not to discriminate against idiots. I like to treat them
all the same.
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM: jmitchtx
MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
Skype: jmitchtx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yan Hu" <ya...@yahoo.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
<mg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>
>> Mr Yan:
>>
>> For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
>> If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country
>> and
>> aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
> Calling someone that makes fun of others an "idiot" definately does not
> break any law in the US.
>
>
>> Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate
>> or
>> vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US
>> Citizens)..> Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as
>> you have here
>> is clearly discriminatory
> it is also against anti-discrimination law to make fun of minorities.
> Hahah, you are such a big
> idiot. Can you even reason logically? Ha you can not since you do not have
> a brain.
>
>
>
>> In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are
>> guests here of my country> I am asking is that you and your fellow guests
>> extend the SAME
> courtesy as I a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
> Haha again, I guess you would be a coward in a different country becuas
> you will NOT defend
> yourself when the natives make fun of you. And now you are an idiot +
> coward. I dispise you.
>
>
>> That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that
>> your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its
>> citizens..
> I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.
>
> Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any
>> H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what
>> you
>> say from now on.
> I will tell you that you can do whatever you want. Just remember not to
> flinch in a different
> country becuase you will be victimized by idoits like yourself.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com>.
> Mr Yan:
>
> For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
> If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country and
> aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
Calling someone that makes fun of others an "idiot" definately does not break any law in the US.
> Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate or
> vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US
> Citizens)..> Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as you have here
> is clearly discriminatory
it is also against anti-discrimination law to make fun of minorities. Hahah, you are such a big
idiot. Can you even reason logically? Ha you can not since you do not have a brain.
> In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are
> guests here of my country> I am asking is that you and your fellow guests extend the SAME
courtesy as I a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
Haha again, I guess you would be a coward in a different country becuas you will NOT defend
yourself when the natives make fun of you. And now you are an idiot + coward. I dispise you.
> That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that
> your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its
> citizens..
I respect good people(regardless of races) not an asshole like you.
Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any
> H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what you
> say from now on.
I will tell you that you can do whatever you want. Just remember not to flinch in a different
country becuase you will be victimized by idoits like yourself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Mr Yan:
For most of us here this is not a game but a livelihood
If I go to China or India I understand that am a guest in that country and
aware that I must not abuse and or break the laws of the country..
Remembering that it is against anti-discrimination law here to denigrate or
vilify anyone according to ethnic and or racial heritage (even US
Citizens)..
Calling someone 'an idiot' based on ANY grouping criteria as you have here
is clearly discriminatory
In your case I would suggest that you are not Remembering that you are
guests here of my country
I am asking is that you and your fellow guests extend the SAME courtesy as I
a US Citizen would extend if I was working in your country.
That is to respect and obey ALL the laws of my country and that ALSO that
your words and behaviour should extend respect to ALL of its
citizens..Remember also that any US Citizen can file a complaint against any
H1B with the INS so in your case I would caution you to be careful what you
say from now on.
I will tell you based on your comment that you have clearly stepped over the
line of appropriateness and should not do so again
I would also state your actions reflect that I consider you to be an
extremely poor representative of your country and if you worked for me I
would fire you on the spot..The last time I checked the INS is not in the
business of supporting misbehaving and or inappropriate behaviour of H1Bs
who are here as Guests of our country.
Please refrain from using this list to promote and or make excuses for your
clearly inappropriate behavior.
Martin-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yan Hu" <ya...@yahoo.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this
> your personal playground
> to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate
> the game.
>
> --- Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Brandon-
>> Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
>> premises
>> The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
>> 1c/hour
>> which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
>> This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your
>> usage
>> habits..
>> Viel Gluck,
>> M-
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
>> <mg...@hotmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
>> [OT]
>>
>>
>> Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
>> behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
>> complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
>>
>> And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>> On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having
>> > the
>> > wrong religious views
>> > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
>> > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
>> > views)
>> > get work in Germany
>> > Vielen Danke,
>> > Martin-
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
>> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
>> > [OT]
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
>> > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
>> > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
>> > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>> > >>
>> > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>> > >>
>> > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
>> > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
>> > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
>> > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
>> > >> of the press etc).
>> > >
>> > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
>> > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
>> > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
>> > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
>> > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
>> > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
>> > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
>> > > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
>> > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
>> > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
>> > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>> > >
>> > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
>> > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
>> > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
>> > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>> > >>
>> > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone
>> > >> today
>> > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
>> > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
>> > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
>> > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
>> > >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
>> > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
>> > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
>> > >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
>> > >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
>> > >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
>> > >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
>> > >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
>> > >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
>> > >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
>> > >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>> > >
>> > > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
>> > > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
>> > > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
>> > > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my
>> > > personal
>> > > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
>> > > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
>> > > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
>> > > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
>> > > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant
>> > > when
>> > > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
>> > > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
>> > > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
>> > > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
>> > > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
>> > > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
>> > > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
>> > > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
>> > >
>> > >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
>> > >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
>> > >
>> > > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
>> > > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
>> > >
>> > > -- Christian.
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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RE: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Daniel Perry <d....@netcase.co.uk>.
Applogies for being english or maybe just naive, but what the hell is a H1B?
Daniel.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yan Hu [mailto:yachilling@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 08 July 2005 07:40
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour.
> Is this your personal playground
> to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the
> players. Hate the game.
>
> --- Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brandon-
> > Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify
> from these
> > premises
> > The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> > 1c/hour
> > which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> > This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on
> your usage
> > habits..
> > Viel Gluck,
> > M-
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>;
> "Martin Gainty"
> > <mg...@hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books
> Recommendations [OT]
> >
> >
> > Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> > behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> > complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
> >
> > And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> > On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old
> or having the
> > > wrong religious views
> > > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > > views)
> > > get work in Germany
> > > Vielen Danke,
> > > Martin-
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books
> Recommendations
> > > [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you
> for. Go read
> > > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > > >>
> > > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > > >>
> > > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the
> way you wear
> > > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based
> on the use
> > > >> of the press etc).
> > > >
> > > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired
> anytime soon,
> > > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > > >
> > > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to
> terminate his or
> > > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example
> everyone today
> > > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > > >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > > >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > > >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > > >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > > >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views
> on X,Y,orZ
> > > >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that
> later position
> > > >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one
> view (secular
> > > >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > > >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> > > >
> > > > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!),
> religious
> > > > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > > > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > > > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as
> my personal
> > > > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > > > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > > > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > > > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > > > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite
> intolerant when
> > > > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > > > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > > > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > > > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > > > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > > > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > > > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > > > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> > > >
> > > >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > > >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> > > >
> > > > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > > > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> > > >
> > > > -- Christian.
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Yan Hu <ya...@yahoo.com>.
Last time the price tag I checked on these 2 idiots was 0/hour. Is this your personal playground
to make fun of H1Bs or a struts list? Hey, do not hate the players. Hate the game.
--- Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Brandon-
> Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
> premises
> The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
> 1c/hour
> which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
> This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
> habits..
> Viel Gluck,
> M-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
> <mg...@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>
>
> Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
> behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
> complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
>
> And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
>
> Brandon
>
> On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> > wrong religious views
> > we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> > My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> > views)
> > get work in Germany
> > Vielen Danke,
> > Martin-
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> > [OT]
> >
> >
> > > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> > >>
> > >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> > >>
> > >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > >> of the press etc).
> > >
> > > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> > >
> > >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> > >>
> > >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> > >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> > >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> > >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> > >
> > > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> > > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> > > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> > >
> > >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> > >
> > > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> > >
> > > -- Christian.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Brandon-
Keeping in mind that No inductive generalisations can qualify from these
premises
The last time I checked The price for the aforementioned is pegged at
1c/hour
which by my calculations qualifies as 'outsourcing the outsourcers'
This is the MSRP ..Your mileage may of course vary depending on your usage
habits..
Viel Gluck,
M-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Goodin" <br...@gmail.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>; "Martin Gainty"
<mg...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
Brandon
On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> wrong religious views
> we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
> views)
> get work in Germany
> Vielen Danke,
> Martin-
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
> [OT]
>
>
> > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >>
> >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >>
> >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> >> of the press etc).
> >
> > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> >
> >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> >>
> >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> >
> > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> >
> >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> >
> > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> >
> > -- Christian.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
Where do you work!? I am going to notify your boss of you disgruntle
behavior on this list!!! No wonder why we have H1Bs. They never
complain and just take their 2 cents an hour.
And I mean that in the best possible way :p ;-) :D
Brandon
On 7/6/05, Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
> wrong religious views
> we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
> My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect views)
> get work in Germany
> Vielen Danke,
> Martin-
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>
>
> > On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> >> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> >> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> >> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >>
> >> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >>
> >> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> >> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> >> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> >> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> >> of the press etc).
> >
> > Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> > I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> > company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> > employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> > or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> > last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> > my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> > to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> > working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> > including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> > e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
> >
> >> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> >> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> >> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> >> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> >>
> >> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> >> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> >> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> >> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> >> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> >> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> >> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> >> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> >> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> >> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> >> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> >> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> >> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> >> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> >> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> >> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
> >
> > In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> > freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> > Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> > is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> > saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> > can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> > cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> > eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> > and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> > confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> > for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> > which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> > hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> > would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> > than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> > chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> > of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
> >
> >> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> >> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
> >
> > Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> > a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
> >
> > -- Christian.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Good Morning Brian:
In a global economy keep in mind that a business can locate anywhere..
Tying up resources in a situation such as what you described could be
interpreted (in a rather loose sense) as 'anti-business'
and *might* force the company to look at other locations which provide more
'business-friendly' environments.
Please feel free to contact me offline as this topic can be easily construed
as 'O/T'.
Best,
M-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lee" <br...@hotmail.com>
To: <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> Actually, in the US we have laws against age discrimination or
> discrimination based on race, religion, creed or nationality. These are
> termed "protected groups" under US labor law. If you were fired for one of
> these reasons, gather up some evidence and sue your way to wealth in the
> civil courts.
>
> BAL
>
>>From: "Martin Gainty" <mg...@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: "Martin Gainty" <mg...@hotmail.com>
>>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
>>[OT]
>>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:14:51 -0400
>>
>>Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
>>wrong religious views
>>we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
>>My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
>>views) get work in Germany
>>Vielen Danke,
>>Martin-
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bollmeyer"
>><ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
>>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
>>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations
>>[OT]
>>
>>
>>>On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>>Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
>>>> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
>>>> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
>>>> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>>>>
>>>>(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>>>>
>>>>For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
>>>>'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
>>>>your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
>>>>want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
>>>>of the press etc).
>>>
>>>Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
>>>I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
>>>company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
>>>employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
>>>or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
>>>last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
>>>my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
>>>to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
>>>working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
>>>including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
>>>e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>>>
>>>>Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
>>>>email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
>>>>"transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
>>>>her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>>>>
>>>>1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
>>>>talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
>>>>meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
>>>>system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
>>>>what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
>>>>otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
>>>>religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
>>>>sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
>>>>are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
>>>>disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
>>>>could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
>>>>somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
>>>>are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
>>>>can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
>>>>humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
>>>>some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>>>
>>>In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
>>>freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
>>>Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
>>>is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
>>>saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
>>>can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
>>>cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
>>>eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
>>>and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
>>>confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
>>>for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
>>>which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
>>>hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
>>>would use a company e-mail address for anything other
>>>than business communication, and whoever deliberately
>>>chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
>>>of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
>>>
>>>>2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
>>>>employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
>>>
>>>Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
>>>a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
>>>
>>>-- Christian.
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com>.
Actually, in the US we have laws against age discrimination or
discrimination based on race, religion, creed or nationality. These are
termed "protected groups" under US labor law. If you were fired for one of
these reasons, gather up some evidence and sue your way to wealth in the
civil courts.
BAL
>From: "Martin Gainty" <mg...@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Martin Gainty" <mg...@hotmail.com>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:14:51 -0400
>
>Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
>wrong religious views
>we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
>My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect
>views) get work in Germany
>Vielen Danke,
>Martin-
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Bollmeyer"
><ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
>
>
>>On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>>Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
>>> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
>>> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
>>> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>>>
>>>(the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>>>
>>>For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
>>>'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
>>>your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
>>>want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
>>>of the press etc).
>>
>>Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
>>I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
>>company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
>>employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
>>or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
>>last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
>>my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
>>to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
>>working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
>>including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
>>e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>>
>>>Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
>>>email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
>>>"transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
>>>her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>>>
>>>1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
>>>talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
>>>meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
>>>system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
>>>what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
>>>otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
>>>religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
>>>sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
>>>are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
>>>disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
>>>could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
>>>somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
>>>are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
>>>can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
>>>humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
>>>some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>>
>>In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
>>freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
>>Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
>>is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
>>saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
>>can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
>>cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
>>eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
>>and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
>>confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
>>for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
>>which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
>>hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
>>would use a company e-mail address for anything other
>>than business communication, and whoever deliberately
>>chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
>>of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
>>
>>>2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
>>>employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
>>
>>Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
>>a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
>>
>>-- Christian.
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Unfortunately in the US you can be canned for being too old or having the
wrong religious views
we have a ton of laws on the books but they are unenforced
My question is how do I (an older engineer with politically incorrect views)
get work in Germany
Vielen Danke,
Martin-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Bollmeyer" <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
>> > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
>> > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
>> > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
>>
>> (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
>>
>> For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
>> 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
>> your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
>> want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
>> of the press etc).
>
> Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>
>> Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
>> email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
>> "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
>> her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
>>
>> 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
>> talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
>> meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
>> system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
>> what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
>> otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
>> religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
>> sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
>> are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
>> disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
>> could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
>> somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
>> are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
>> can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
>> humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
>> some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>
> In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
>
>> 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
>> employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
>
> Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
>
> -- Christian.
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Fired???? was...Re: Struts Books Recommendations [OT]
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
A Christian named Christian... that's original :)
On 7/6/05, Christian Bollmeyer <ja...@christianbollmeyer.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 19:48, Rick Reumann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > Daniel Perry wrote the following on 7/6/2005 12:49 PM:
> > > Hah, it's the business use of web/email they fire you for. Go read
> > > your terms of employment, and the reference to "IT acceptible use
> > > policy" that you inadvertantly agreed to.
> >
> > (the below has nothing to do with Mark)..
> >
> > For the record, I'm not against an employer firing an employee for
> > 'whatever' reason they deem fit. If they don't like the way you wear
> > your hair, I think they should have the right to fire you if they
> > want. (The public also has a right to know about it based on the use
> > of the press etc).
>
> Now though I'm clearly not in the position to get fired anytime soon,
> I still think as long as I'm doing my job right and don't blame the
> company I work for, what I do in my leisure time is not my
> employer's business. Including my haircut, age, religious beliefs
> or whatever. What I sell are my skills, work performance and
> last but not least a significant part of my lifetime, but neither
> my soul nor my private life. In Germany, it's not quite that easy
> to get rid of someone who, lets say, just got older because of
> working for you. And I think this is just. Stealing silver spoons,
> including deliberately breaking company rules in terms of
> e-mail usage and the like is another issue.
>
> > Personally, if I owned a company and someone was using the company
> > email domain name to post on sites such as "swingers" or
> > "transvestitepride," I think I should have right to terminate his or
> > her's employment. What I have a problem with is ...
> >
> > 1) The inconsistency in what is protected. For example everyone today
> > talks about "tolerance." But what does this mean? What it ends up
> > meaning is "There are no moral absolutes so the only valid belief
> > system protected is one that doesn't espouse moral judgments." But
> > what about being tolerant to the idea that someone might feel
> > otherwise? Why is state sanctioned secularism the only valid
> > religion (and yes secularism is a belief system - a religion). It's
> > sort of funny that those whom often claim to be the most 'tolerant'
> > are often the most vicious when it comes to attacking someone that
> > disagrees with their view of "tolerance." There are many views I
> > could state that would get me labeled as being 'intolerant,' yet,
> > somehow it's supposedly not offensive to state "All views on X,Y,orZ
> > are equally acceptable." To me, and many others, that later position
> > can be considered extremely offensive. Why is only one view (secular
> > humanism) considered 'non offensive' but other religious views are
> > some how bigoted and intolerant. It's pure hypocrisy.
>
> In Germany, in a major part thanks to the US (I mean it!), religious
> freedom, for instance, is granted to everyone in our Constitutional
> Law (Art. 4 GG). Getting fired just because of one's religious views
> is impossible by law. So I, who believes in Jesus Christ as my personal
> saviour and follows the Bible as his above-all-worldly-wisdom guide
> can happily work together with Hindus and common atheists, in-
> cluding my boss. I can even tell them if they're on the road to
> eternal doom, the same as they may tell me I'm ridiciously wrong,
> and still keep my job. And in fact, the Bible is quite intolerant when
> confronted with modern secularism, but what's my choice? As
> for general opinions and secular beliefs, we have Art. 5 GG
> which grants freedom of speech. So there's no need for
> hypocrisy here at all. On the other hand, I definitely never
> would use a company e-mail address for anything other
> than business communication, and whoever deliberately
> chooses to do otherwise may just have to face the fruits
> of his dauntness. Or his dumbness, if you will.
>
> > 2) Someone taking the time on the list to 'complain' to someone's
> > employer. Sure you have the right to do so, but I think it's lame.
>
> Quality never goes out of style, but good manners may. Possibly
> a matter of education and attitude. I won't judge.
>
> -- Christian.
>
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