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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> on 2016/09/15 15:32:36 UTC
Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Hi all,
I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
some information there to help users better understand the milestone
releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
into the lifecycle?
I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
not this is something that we want to do.
Thanks,
Coty
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 19/09/2016 16:29, Jaros\u0142aw G�rny wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> 2016-09-19 16:10 GMT+02:00 Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com>:
>> OK, I've read over what I proposed again and it looks correct to me. I
>> only made one change after you provided further explanation and that
>> change was to add 'finalized' in the Alpha release description:
>>
>> +functionality required by the finalised specification and/or significant bugs
>>
>> I did this to further demarcate Milestone releases from Alpha
>> releases. If this sounds good to everyone, I'll push it up.
>>
>
> Thanks for that! If I'm reading all of that correctly, "M-builds"
> (milestones) are actually pre-alpha, right?
To some extent, we are working out the detail as we go along. The spec
is normally ready before Tomcat is. It is a first (in my memory) for
Tomcat to be waiting for the spec.
> Which means, there will be a 9.0.0-alpha at some point.
It would be 9.0.0 (alpha).
> Also, I assume there might be more than
> one alpha or beta release. So we can again expect something like:
> 9.0.0-alpha1, 9.0.0-alpha2, etc. If so, will the first alpha contain
> numerical suffix. Or first one will be just 9.0.0-alpha, and prefixes
> added only if it turns out there are more than one "alpha" stage
> releases?
No. It would be:
9.0.0 (alpha)
9.0.1 (alpha)
etc.
> Additional note, on http://tomcat.apache.org/ Milestone builds are at
> the moment referenced as "alpha", which IMVHO is confusing. For
> example:
>
> "The Apache Tomcat Project is proud to announce the release of version
> 9.0.0.M10 (alpha) of Apache Tomcat.(...)"
>
> Thank you!
The milestone is primarily there to indicate that the specification API
JARs are subject to change. We don't want to have a version of a spec
JAR in the wild that doesn't represent the final version of the spec API
that isn't clearly marked in some way. Milestone release suffixes are
the simplest way of doing this.
Alpha / Beta / Stable is primarily there to indicate how production
ready the code is.
Milestones will always be alpha.
Depending on the pace of change in the specs between now and the final
releases, it is possible that 9.0.0 could be a beta. We'll have to see.
Mark
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Jarosław Górny <ja...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
2016-09-19 16:10 GMT+02:00 Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com>:
> OK, I've read over what I proposed again and it looks correct to me. I
> only made one change after you provided further explanation and that
> change was to add 'finalized' in the Alpha release description:
>
> +functionality required by the finalised specification and/or significant bugs
>
> I did this to further demarcate Milestone releases from Alpha
> releases. If this sounds good to everyone, I'll push it up.
>
Thanks for that! If I'm reading all of that correctly, "M-builds"
(milestones) are actually pre-alpha, right? Which means, there will be
a 9.0.0-alpha at some point. Also, I assume there might be more than
one alpha or beta release. So we can again expect something like:
9.0.0-alpha1, 9.0.0-alpha2, etc. If so, will the first alpha contain
numerical suffix. Or first one will be just 9.0.0-alpha, and prefixes
added only if it turns out there are more than one "alpha" stage
releases?
Additional note, on http://tomcat.apache.org/ Milestone builds are at
the moment referenced as "alpha", which IMVHO is confusing. For
example:
"The Apache Tomcat Project is proud to announce the release of version
9.0.0.M10 (alpha) of Apache Tomcat.(...)"
Thank you!
--
Jarosław Górny
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com>.
OK, I've read over what I proposed again and it looks correct to me. I
only made one change after you provided further explanation and that
change was to add 'finalized' in the Alpha release description:
+functionality required by the finalised specification and/or significant bugs
I did this to further demarcate Milestone releases from Alpha
releases. If this sounds good to everyone, I'll push it up.
Thanks!
On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Jarosław Górny
<ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2016-09-16 15:52 GMT+02:00 Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>:
>> On 16/09/2016 13:59, Coty Sutherland wrote:
>>> I'm not sure where to file a bug for this, but I produced a first pass
>>> at a patch to update the page. I'm not sure I have a solid grasp on
>>> why we're doing milestones in tc9 (other than to prevent a bunch of
>>> revisions from being releases pre-beta) so this might need some
>>> changes to convey the intent a bit better.
>>
>> Version numbers aren't the concern.
>>
>> Think of it as:
>> - Milestone - Specification JARs not complete
>> - Alpha - Specification JARs complete, other stuff (including the
>> implementation of the specification) not complete
>> - Beta - Feature complete, not production ready
>> - Stable - Production ready
>>
>> Once the spec is final getting to Alpha is pretty easy. Historically, we
>> haven't been this far ahead of the curve before. We've usually been
>> playing catch up so we've started with Alpha.
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>
>
> Thanks! This is very interesting and important to what I'm doing!
>
>
> --
> Jarosław Górny
>
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Jarosław Górny <ja...@gmail.com>.
2016-09-16 15:52 GMT+02:00 Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>:
> On 16/09/2016 13:59, Coty Sutherland wrote:
>> I'm not sure where to file a bug for this, but I produced a first pass
>> at a patch to update the page. I'm not sure I have a solid grasp on
>> why we're doing milestones in tc9 (other than to prevent a bunch of
>> revisions from being releases pre-beta) so this might need some
>> changes to convey the intent a bit better.
>
> Version numbers aren't the concern.
>
> Think of it as:
> - Milestone - Specification JARs not complete
> - Alpha - Specification JARs complete, other stuff (including the
> implementation of the specification) not complete
> - Beta - Feature complete, not production ready
> - Stable - Production ready
>
> Once the spec is final getting to Alpha is pretty easy. Historically, we
> haven't been this far ahead of the curve before. We've usually been
> playing catch up so we've started with Alpha.
>
> Does that help?
>
Thanks! This is very interesting and important to what I'm doing!
--
Jarosław Górny
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com>.
Ahh. That makes a lot more sense; thanks. I'll amend my patch and
attach it again in a bit.
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 16/09/2016 13:59, Coty Sutherland wrote:
>> I'm not sure where to file a bug for this, but I produced a first pass
>> at a patch to update the page. I'm not sure I have a solid grasp on
>> why we're doing milestones in tc9 (other than to prevent a bunch of
>> revisions from being releases pre-beta) so this might need some
>> changes to convey the intent a bit better.
>
> Version numbers aren't the concern.
>
> Think of it as:
> - Milestone - Specification JARs not complete
> - Alpha - Specification JARs complete, other stuff (including the
> implementation of the specification) not complete
> - Beta - Feature complete, not production ready
> - Stable - Production ready
>
> Once the spec is final getting to Alpha is pretty easy. Historically, we
> haven't been this far ahead of the curve before. We've usually been
> playing catch up so we've started with Alpha.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Mark
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On 15 September 2016 16:32:36 BST, Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
>>>> versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
>>>> http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
>>>> information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
>>>> are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
>>>> some information there to help users better understand the milestone
>>>> releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
>>>> into the lifecycle?
>>>>
>>>> I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
>>>> not this is something that we want to do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Coty
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Current plan is milestones until the specs are final. Depending on what happens with JavaEE 7 we might need to rethink that. We should know more after Java One.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 16/09/2016 13:59, Coty Sutherland wrote:
> I'm not sure where to file a bug for this, but I produced a first pass
> at a patch to update the page. I'm not sure I have a solid grasp on
> why we're doing milestones in tc9 (other than to prevent a bunch of
> revisions from being releases pre-beta) so this might need some
> changes to convey the intent a bit better.
Version numbers aren't the concern.
Think of it as:
- Milestone - Specification JARs not complete
- Alpha - Specification JARs complete, other stuff (including the
implementation of the specification) not complete
- Beta - Feature complete, not production ready
- Stable - Production ready
Once the spec is final getting to Alpha is pretty easy. Historically, we
haven't been this far ahead of the curve before. We've usually been
playing catch up so we've started with Alpha.
Does that help?
Mark
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 15 September 2016 16:32:36 BST, Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
>>> versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
>>> http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
>>> information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
>>> are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
>>> some information there to help users better understand the milestone
>>> releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
>>> into the lifecycle?
>>>
>>> I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
>>> not this is something that we want to do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Coty
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Current plan is milestones until the specs are final. Depending on what happens with JavaEE 7 we might need to rethink that. We should know more after Java One.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com>.
I'm not sure where to file a bug for this, but I produced a first pass
at a patch to update the page. I'm not sure I have a solid grasp on
why we're doing milestones in tc9 (other than to prevent a bunch of
revisions from being releases pre-beta) so this might need some
changes to convey the intent a bit better.
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 15 September 2016 16:32:36 BST, Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
>>versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
>>http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
>>information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
>>are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
>>some information there to help users better understand the milestone
>>releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
>>into the lifecycle?
>>
>>I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
>>not this is something that we want to do.
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Coty
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
> +1
>
> Current plan is milestones until the specs are final. Depending on what happens with JavaEE 7 we might need to rethink that. We should know more after Java One.
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 15/09/2016 17:26, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 15 September 2016 16:32:36 BST, Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
>> versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
>> http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
>> information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
>> are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
>> some information there to help users better understand the milestone
>> releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
>> into the lifecycle?
>>
>> I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
>> not this is something that we want to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Coty
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
> +1
>
> Current plan is milestones until the specs are final. Depending on what happens with JavaEE 7 we might need to rethink that. We should know more after Java One.
I meant JavaEE 8 of course.
Mark
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Re: Should we update version scheme information for tomcat 9?
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 15 September 2016 16:32:36 BST, Coty Sutherland <cs...@redhat.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm getting quite a few questions on freenode in #tomcat about the
>versioning scheme for tomcat 9. I looked at the
>http://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html page and it has some good
>information there, but it doesn't mention what the milestone releases
>are or how they fit into the alpha/beta/stable releases. Can we add
>some information there to help users better understand the milestone
>releases (if that is going to continue to be a thing) and how they fit
>into the lifecycle?
>
>I can open a bug for it, but wanted to get an opinion on whether or
>not this is something that we want to do.
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>Coty
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org
+1
Current plan is milestones until the specs are final. Depending on what happens with JavaEE 7 we might need to rethink that. We should know more after Java One.
Mark
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