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Posted to dev@corinthia.apache.org by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> on 2015/01/09 01:46:16 UTC
Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Hi -
Peter's architecture descriptions have been very illuminating. The debate around bootstrapping documentation is interesting.
Observations.
o Corinthia features an HTML abstract state.
o Corinthia can filter a Word document into HTML. With other filters to follow.
o Apache CMS can wrap diverse documents (mdtext, html, ...) into HTML - See openoffice.org.
Idea:
1. Create website responsive wrapper. This is Dorte's current web work that must continue! We've had good email discussion and we can link to our public dev archive for now. No need for a wiki yet!
2. Once we are happy with the website design, I can convert into templates in the Apache CMS.
3. Create website content bodies from Word documents locally using Corinthia.
o As additional filters are implemented in Corinthia more source document types are possible for site content:
- ODT
- PowerPoint, ...
4. Build a headless Corinthia and install on the Apache CMS buildbot.
Some benefits:
o Write documentation like you know how. The website content becomes a tree of documents.
o Apache CMS could be used to provide a "source" view of the pages. Even more help opening up the model.
o Corinthia can show the differences between document versions – the diffs between website content checkins.
o It will be easy to show potential users how Corinthia works. Different abstract HTML forms can be filtered from documents which will allow easier explanations of the various html forms - flat, wrapped, sequential, etc. as the pages source code.
o This approach also fits with Apache Sling / Jackrabbit (Adobe CQ) architecture.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Dave
Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 18 January 2015 at 17:45, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org>
wrote:
>
>
> -- replying below to --
> From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 00:48
> To: dev@corinthia.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
>
> [ ... ]
>
> First we need a stable DocFormats library, where it is easy to write
> filters...in my head that is priority 1, after that we can look closer at
> which consumers to make first (or which filters).
>
> Start making new consumers, while DocFormats is unstable, and we currently
> only are 2 people developing is stretching our resources too thin, in my
> opinion.
>
> jan i.
>
> <orcmid>
> Then I suppose the key task is to get to where there are more than 2
> people developing.
>
I have seen multiple issues that other developers could start working on
(like the getopt), but yes core development is not really safe and nice
today.
>
> Perhaps the key task is organizing the code so that is possible,
> including getting to a stable DocFormats library, stable enough for
> more hands to expand its reach?
>
That is exactly the main focus from peter and me at the moment, not new
features, but make what we have available to more hands.
I have and am reorganizing the file structure, so that it is easier
understandable for a Windows developer, while peter at the moment look at
how we split filter development from core development.
We are both to some extent looking at making a DocFormats API.
So we are on the way, but things take time :-)
rgds
jan i.
> </orcmid>
>
>
RE: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
-- replying below to --
From: jan i [mailto:jani@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 00:48
To: dev@corinthia.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
[ ... ]
First we need a stable DocFormats library, where it is easy to write
filters...in my head that is priority 1, after that we can look closer at
which consumers to make first (or which filters).
Start making new consumers, while DocFormats is unstable, and we currently
only are 2 people developing is stretching our resources too thin, in my
opinion.
jan i.
<orcmid>
Then I suppose the key task is to get to where there are more than 2
people developing.
Perhaps the key task is organizing the code so that is possible,
including getting to a stable DocFormats library, stable enough for
more hands to expand its reach?
</orcmid>
Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 13 January 2015 at 02:00, Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9 Jan 2015, at 11:36, Peter Kelly <pm...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think it’s a great idea - though perhaps somewhat premature given the
> early state of the project.
> >
> > We have a web-based editor (which is yet to be properly documented or
> integrated with DocFormats) which I think would be a great tool/library for
> people building CMS systems. And the document conversion facility is a
> great way of demonstrating how we can take different kinds of documents as
> inputs. We could even have a set of links at the bottom of this page…
> “download this file as… [docx] [odt] [markdown] [latex]” etc, optionally
> combined with the ability to upload in any format, demonstrating the
> conversion capabilities.
> >
> > I think however that the code is not ready at this point, and our main
> focus right now needs to being getting content up there. I suggest we peg
> this as an aspirational goal, and to try and work towards figuring out how
> one might build a suitable web CMS or static website demonstrator using the
> toolkit.
> >
>
> Belatedly coming to this. Naturally, D’s notion picks up on the potential
> of Corinthia—and also, as Peter, points out, our need of more. Not sure
> it’s more resources, as in developers, or just code? Or is code here
> dependent on your free time?
>
> Peter: what would we need to do what Dave suggests?
>
First we need a stable DocFormats library, where it is easy to write
filters...in my head that is priority 1, after that we can look closer at
which consumers to make first (or which filters).
Start making new consumers, while DocFormats is unstable, and we currently
only are 2 people developing is stretching our resources too thin, in my
opinion.
jan i.
>
>
> > —
> > Dr Peter M. Kelly
> > pmkelly@apache.org
>
> Louis
> >
> > PGP key: http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key <
> http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key>
> > (fingerprint 5435 6718 59F0 DD1F BFA0 5E46 2523 BAA1 44AE 2966)
> >
> >> On 9 Jan 2015, at 7:46 am, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> Peter's architecture descriptions have been very illuminating. The
> debate around bootstrapping documentation is interesting.
> >>
> >> Observations.
> >>
> >> o Corinthia features an HTML abstract state.
> >>
> >> o Corinthia can filter a Word document into HTML. With other filters to
> follow.
> >>
> >> o Apache CMS can wrap diverse documents (mdtext, html, ...) into HTML -
> See openoffice.org.
> >>
> >> Idea:
> >>
> >> 1. Create website responsive wrapper. This is Dorte's current web work
> that must continue! We've had good email discussion and we can link to our
> public dev archive for now. No need for a wiki yet!
> >>
> >> 2. Once we are happy with the website design, I can convert into
> templates in the Apache CMS.
> >>
> >> 3. Create website content bodies from Word documents locally using
> Corinthia.
> >> o As additional filters are implemented in Corinthia more source
> document types are possible for site content:
> >> - ODT
> >> - PowerPoint, ...
> >>
> >> 4. Build a headless Corinthia and install on the Apache CMS buildbot.
> >>
> >> Some benefits:
> >>
> >> o Write documentation like you know how. The website content becomes a
> tree of documents.
> >>
> >> o Apache CMS could be used to provide a "source" view of the pages.
> Even more help opening up the model.
> >>
> >> o Corinthia can show the differences between document versions – the
> diffs between website content checkins.
> >>
> >> o It will be easy to show potential users how Corinthia works.
> Different abstract HTML forms can be filtered from documents which will
> allow easier explanations of the various html forms - flat, wrapped,
> sequential, etc. as the pages source code.
> >>
> >> o This approach also fits with Apache Sling / Jackrabbit (Adobe CQ)
> architecture.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >
>
>
Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
> On 9 Jan 2015, at 11:36, Peter Kelly <pm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I think it’s a great idea - though perhaps somewhat premature given the early state of the project.
>
> We have a web-based editor (which is yet to be properly documented or integrated with DocFormats) which I think would be a great tool/library for people building CMS systems. And the document conversion facility is a great way of demonstrating how we can take different kinds of documents as inputs. We could even have a set of links at the bottom of this page… “download this file as… [docx] [odt] [markdown] [latex]” etc, optionally combined with the ability to upload in any format, demonstrating the conversion capabilities.
>
> I think however that the code is not ready at this point, and our main focus right now needs to being getting content up there. I suggest we peg this as an aspirational goal, and to try and work towards figuring out how one might build a suitable web CMS or static website demonstrator using the toolkit.
>
Belatedly coming to this. Naturally, D’s notion picks up on the potential of Corinthia—and also, as Peter, points out, our need of more. Not sure it’s more resources, as in developers, or just code? Or is code here dependent on your free time?
Peter: what would we need to do what Dave suggests?
> —
> Dr Peter M. Kelly
> pmkelly@apache.org
Louis
>
> PGP key: http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key <http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key>
> (fingerprint 5435 6718 59F0 DD1F BFA0 5E46 2523 BAA1 44AE 2966)
>
>> On 9 Jan 2015, at 7:46 am, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi -
>>
>> Peter's architecture descriptions have been very illuminating. The debate around bootstrapping documentation is interesting.
>>
>> Observations.
>>
>> o Corinthia features an HTML abstract state.
>>
>> o Corinthia can filter a Word document into HTML. With other filters to follow.
>>
>> o Apache CMS can wrap diverse documents (mdtext, html, ...) into HTML - See openoffice.org.
>>
>> Idea:
>>
>> 1. Create website responsive wrapper. This is Dorte's current web work that must continue! We've had good email discussion and we can link to our public dev archive for now. No need for a wiki yet!
>>
>> 2. Once we are happy with the website design, I can convert into templates in the Apache CMS.
>>
>> 3. Create website content bodies from Word documents locally using Corinthia.
>> o As additional filters are implemented in Corinthia more source document types are possible for site content:
>> - ODT
>> - PowerPoint, ...
>>
>> 4. Build a headless Corinthia and install on the Apache CMS buildbot.
>>
>> Some benefits:
>>
>> o Write documentation like you know how. The website content becomes a tree of documents.
>>
>> o Apache CMS could be used to provide a "source" view of the pages. Even more help opening up the model.
>>
>> o Corinthia can show the differences between document versions – the diffs between website content checkins.
>>
>> o It will be easy to show potential users how Corinthia works. Different abstract HTML forms can be filtered from documents which will allow easier explanations of the various html forms - flat, wrapped, sequential, etc. as the pages source code.
>>
>> o This approach also fits with Apache Sling / Jackrabbit (Adobe CQ) architecture.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>
Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by Peter Kelly <pm...@apache.org>.
I think it’s a great idea - though perhaps somewhat premature given the early state of the project.
We have a web-based editor (which is yet to be properly documented or integrated with DocFormats) which I think would be a great tool/library for people building CMS systems. And the document conversion facility is a great way of demonstrating how we can take different kinds of documents as inputs. We could even have a set of links at the bottom of this page… “download this file as… [docx] [odt] [markdown] [latex]” etc, optionally combined with the ability to upload in any format, demonstrating the conversion capabilities.
I think however that the code is not ready at this point, and our main focus right now needs to being getting content up there. I suggest we peg this as an aspirational goal, and to try and work towards figuring out how one might build a suitable web CMS or static website demonstrator using the toolkit.
—
Dr Peter M. Kelly
pmkelly@apache.org
PGP key: http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key <http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key>
(fingerprint 5435 6718 59F0 DD1F BFA0 5E46 2523 BAA1 44AE 2966)
> On 9 Jan 2015, at 7:46 am, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> Peter's architecture descriptions have been very illuminating. The debate around bootstrapping documentation is interesting.
>
> Observations.
>
> o Corinthia features an HTML abstract state.
>
> o Corinthia can filter a Word document into HTML. With other filters to follow.
>
> o Apache CMS can wrap diverse documents (mdtext, html, ...) into HTML - See openoffice.org.
>
> Idea:
>
> 1. Create website responsive wrapper. This is Dorte's current web work that must continue! We've had good email discussion and we can link to our public dev archive for now. No need for a wiki yet!
>
> 2. Once we are happy with the website design, I can convert into templates in the Apache CMS.
>
> 3. Create website content bodies from Word documents locally using Corinthia.
> o As additional filters are implemented in Corinthia more source document types are possible for site content:
> - ODT
> - PowerPoint, ...
>
> 4. Build a headless Corinthia and install on the Apache CMS buildbot.
>
> Some benefits:
>
> o Write documentation like you know how. The website content becomes a tree of documents.
>
> o Apache CMS could be used to provide a "source" view of the pages. Even more help opening up the model.
>
> o Corinthia can show the differences between document versions – the diffs between website content checkins.
>
> o It will be easy to show potential users how Corinthia works. Different abstract HTML forms can be filtered from documents which will allow easier explanations of the various html forms - flat, wrapped, sequential, etc. as the pages source code.
>
> o This approach also fits with Apache Sling / Jackrabbit (Adobe CQ) architecture.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
Re: Crazy Cool Idea - Corinthia Backed Website
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 January 2015 at 01:46, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi -
>
> Peter's architecture descriptions have been very illuminating. The debate
> around bootstrapping documentation is interesting.
>
> Observations.
>
> o Corinthia features an HTML abstract state.
>
> o Corinthia can filter a Word document into HTML. With other filters to
> follow.
>
> o Apache CMS can wrap diverse documents (mdtext, html, ...) into HTML -
> See openoffice.org.
>
> Idea:
>
> 1. Create website responsive wrapper. This is Dorte's current web work
> that must continue! We've had good email discussion and we can link to our
> public dev archive for now. No need for a wiki yet!
>
I agree with the first part, but not the second, the wiki is very handy for
our disucssions. It would f.x. be handy to use the wiki for a structural
diagram, and then discuss how the "borders" should be implemented in
detail, that seems hard to do in mail.
>
> 2. Once we are happy with the website design, I can convert into templates
> in the Apache CMS.
>
I have no problem with converting it into CMS, but I honestly think it
depends what we want to do with the web, if it just contains a handful of
static pages that basically point to other information, then CMS is a bit
of overkill....whereas if we want to use it for more, then CMS is a good
thing.
>
> 3. Create website content bodies from Word documents locally using
> Corinthia.
> o As additional filters are implemented in Corinthia more source
> document types are possible for site content:
> - ODT
> - PowerPoint, ...
>
> 4. Build a headless Corinthia and install on the Apache CMS buildbot.
>
I have been talking about this for a while, search for httpd module.
It is a relative easy task to buld a httpd module that call DocFormats.
>
> Some benefits:
>
> o Write documentation like you know how. The website content becomes a
> tree of documents.
>
+1
>
> o Apache CMS could be used to provide a "source" view of the pages. Even
> more help opening up the model.
>
hmmm that would not work with the docx converted pages, as far as I can see.
>
> o Corinthia can show the differences between document versions – the diffs
> between website content checkins.
>
Only if we commit the docx files. I would prefer not to commit the html,
but only keep the docx. That way the module would be something
a lot of sites could use.
>
> o It will be easy to show potential users how Corinthia works. Different
> abstract HTML forms can be filtered from documents which will allow easier
> explanations of the various html forms - flat, wrapped, sequential, etc. as
> the pages source code.
>
+1
>
> o This approach also fits with Apache Sling / Jackrabbit (Adobe CQ)
> architecture.
>
I lost you here, but that is surely because I have not looked into the 2
projects.
rgds
jan i
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Dave