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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> on 2017/04/04 13:24:27 UTC

[mentors] Binaries

Hi all,

We're getting closer to the code donation, i.e., during next week the
NetBeans code written to support Java 9 will be frozen. At that point, the
new code written, i.e., since when the code audit started, will begin to be
reviewed.

A question I have, now that the code is getting closer to being donated,
and I know this has been discussed, though let's discuss again in light of
everything becoming more concrete: the binaries.

At Apache, source code is released. What needs to become clearer is how (1)
we can get from source to binaries and (2) where we can make those binaries
available?

I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out Apache
NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is is up
to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?

We've discussed this before, though let's discuss it again, to get
everything cleared up about this.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Simon IJskes <si...@ijskes.org>.
https://builds.apache.org/

On 04-04-17 15:44, Simon IJskes wrote:
> On 04-04-17 15:24, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out
>> Apache
>> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
>> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is
>> is up
>> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
>> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?
>
> There used to be a build environment available @ apache. A jenkins
> server with multiple slaves. I'm not sure if some special arrangment
> needs to be made because of the size of the project.
>
> Are you sure no binaries can be offered from the apache infra? I can
> imagine infra needs some info about the bandwidth needed, and maybe it
> is too much, but there are a lot of projects that distribute binaries
> (compiled srcs).
>
> G. Simon
>
>
>

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Jiří Kovalský <ji...@oracle.com>.
Dne 4.4.2017 v 15:47 Daniel Gruno napsal(a):
> On 04/04/2017 03:44 PM, Simon IJskes wrote:
>> On 04-04-17 15:24, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>
>>> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out
>>> Apache
>>> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
>>> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is
>>> is up
>>> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
>>> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?
>>
>> There used to be a build environment available @ apache. A jenkins
>> server with multiple slaves. I'm not sure if some special arrangment
>> needs to be made because of the size of the project.
>>
>> Are you sure no binaries can be offered from the apache infra? I can
>> imagine infra needs some info about the bandwidth needed, and maybe it
>> is too much, but there are a lot of projects that distribute binaries
>> (compiled srcs).
>>
>> G. Simon
> 
> Convenience binaries are allowed, but not "sanctioned" by the PMC.
> Depending on the download sizes, we may either serve them directly from
> our mirror system or make a deal with a CDN provider.
> 
> What is your estimated number of downloads per month? If you can figure
> out how many TB/month, we'll have something tangible to work with.

The numbers for NetBeans 8.2 and May 2017 are:

* vast majority of users (58%) downloaded full distribution (214 MB)
* JavaSE distro (94 MB) was 2nd with 15% and JavaEE distro (196 MB) was 
3rd with 10%
* to date (5/1 - 5/22) we had 323669 downloads which extrapolated till 
5/31 generates 79 TB total traffic

Where in the Apache Foundation infrastructure do we fit with this load?

Thanks,
-Jirka

> With regards,
> Daniel.

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Daniel, I remember you sent the "Preliminary NetBeans cost findings" email
with some high-level data about bandwidth, servers and costs
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201609.mbox/%3C8503880b-0dbe-d52c-44d7-e74dd77e23c4%40apache.org%3E

So, is there anything else you need on top of the data you received when
you compiled that report?


--emi

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 04/04/2017 03:44 PM, Simon IJskes wrote:
> > On 04-04-17 15:24, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >
> >> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out
> >> Apache
> >> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
> >> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is
> >> is up
> >> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
> >> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?
> >
> > There used to be a build environment available @ apache. A jenkins
> > server with multiple slaves. I'm not sure if some special arrangment
> > needs to be made because of the size of the project.
> >
> > Are you sure no binaries can be offered from the apache infra? I can
> > imagine infra needs some info about the bandwidth needed, and maybe it
> > is too much, but there are a lot of projects that distribute binaries
> > (compiled srcs).
> >
> > G. Simon
> >
> >
> >
>
> Convenience binaries are allowed, but not "sanctioned" by the PMC.
> Depending on the download sizes, we may either serve them directly from
> our mirror system or make a deal with a CDN provider.
>
> What is your estimated number of downloads per month? If you can figure
> out how many TB/month, we'll have something tangible to work with.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 04/04/2017 03:44 PM, Simon IJskes wrote:
> On 04-04-17 15:24, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> 
>> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out
>> Apache
>> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
>> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is
>> is up
>> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
>> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?
> 
> There used to be a build environment available @ apache. A jenkins
> server with multiple slaves. I'm not sure if some special arrangment
> needs to be made because of the size of the project.
> 
> Are you sure no binaries can be offered from the apache infra? I can
> imagine infra needs some info about the bandwidth needed, and maybe it
> is too much, but there are a lot of projects that distribute binaries
> (compiled srcs).
> 
> G. Simon
> 
> 
> 

Convenience binaries are allowed, but not "sanctioned" by the PMC.
Depending on the download sizes, we may either serve them directly from
our mirror system or make a deal with a CDN provider.

What is your estimated number of downloads per month? If you can figure
out how many TB/month, we'll have something tangible to work with.

With regards,
Daniel.

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Simon IJskes <si...@ijskes.org>.
On 04-04-17 15:24, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:

> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out Apache
> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is is up
> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?

There used to be a build environment available @ apache. A jenkins 
server with multiple slaves. I'm not sure if some special arrangment 
needs to be made because of the size of the project.

Are you sure no binaries can be offered from the apache infra? I can 
imagine infra needs some info about the bandwidth needed, and maybe it 
is too much, but there are a lot of projects that distribute binaries 
(compiled srcs).

G. Simon

Re: [mentors] Binaries

Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Hi Geertjan, working back through the list and this one got filed as spam :(

That's indeed an important question given that NetBeans is not smallish (few MB) but rather large.

You are right that a main ASF 'release' is the source. That's what we vote upon. 
But usually ASF releases also provide binaries in addition to the mandatory source release tar ball. 
We host them both via dist.apache.org plus a network of volunteer downstream mirrors around the globe.

While the traffic is usually not a problem for small pieces like commons, OWB, etc (usually just a few MB), those downstream mirrors might not be happy about a sudden traffic of many dozen GB.
For OpenOffice we managed to get a cooperation with SourceForge. Not sure who did the deal, but that might be a way we could look at. 
Raphael might have more information as he is/was also involved in OpenOffice.

I hope this helps for digging into the right direction.

txs and LieGrue,
strub

> Am 04.04.2017 um 15:24 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We're getting closer to the code donation, i.e., during next week the
> NetBeans code written to support Java 9 will be frozen. At that point, the
> new code written, i.e., since when the code audit started, will begin to be
> reviewed.
> 
> A question I have, now that the code is getting closer to being donated,
> and I know this has been discussed, though let's discuss again in light of
> everything becoming more concrete: the binaries.
> 
> At Apache, source code is released. What needs to become clearer is how (1)
> we can get from source to binaries and (2) where we can make those binaries
> available?
> 
> I imagine someone from the Apache NetBeans community will check out Apache
> NetBeans sources, do a build, and then upload the binaries for the
> different operating systems somewhere. I guess where that location is is up
> to us, so long as it is not at Apache. Are there examples of how others
> have done this -- and can we link/promote those binaries in some way?
> 
> We've discussed this before, though let's discuss it again, to get
> everything cleared up about this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gj