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Posted to dev@hc.apache.org by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net> on 2008/01/06 19:26:06 UTC
[discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Hi folks,
I've taken a look around at the "Charter" of some other projects.
I've found anything from a simple scope description [1,2] or just
the TLP proposal [3,4] to extensive descriptions with Mission,
History, Terms and other stuff [5,6].
What exactly is a Project Charter, what are the Bylaws, and what
is the relation of the two? If this was a quiz show, I would have
guessed that the Charter describes the scope, and the Bylaws the
mode of operations. But maybe the two are one and the same?
Taking a look at the Charter that Oleg drafted:
http://hc.apache.org/charter.html
I would prefer to...
- expand the project scope description. It defines what we do.
- drop the list of specifications. That reads more like a
technical specification than a useful project description.
Specifications can be listed with the components or modules
that implement them.
- replace the initial set of committers by a link to the
accepted TLP proposal.
Regarding the mode of operations, I can write something up
based on the Jakarta Bylaws (which are accessible through
the "Charter" link (!) in the right-hand navigation bar):
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
The two questions I expect this kind of document to answer
are:
1. Who has a binding vote on what decisions?
2. Which decisions require a 3/4 majority of eligible voters
and which a simple majority of votes cast?
My current draft answers are:
a) PMC level decisions are votes on releases, on changing
the charter/bylaws, establishing new subprojects, and
accepting new committers or PMC members. Only PMC members
have a binding vote, decisions require three binding +1,
vetos can be overruled by a 3/4 majority of PMC members.
Votes are strictly binary: +/-1.
b) other decisions (project plans, including a feature, new
mailing list,...) require a simple majority of cast votes,
with three binding +1. PMC members and committers have a
binding vote. Votes can be non-binary: +/-0 +/-1.
Of course, the distinction between PMC members and committers
is currently hypothetical. But I like the idea of giving new
committers a binding vote on some decisions from the start.
Comments, thoughts, or other feedback?
cheers,
Roland
[1] http://lenya.apache.org/charter.html
[2] http://db.apache.org/derby/derby_charter.html
[3] http://commons.apache.org/charter.html
[4] http://logging.apache.org/charter.html
[5] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/charter.html
[6] http://xalan.apache.org/charter.html
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 06.01.2008, at 19:26, Roland Weber wrote:
> ...
> Regarding the mode of operations, I can write something up
> based on the Jakarta Bylaws (which are accessible through
> the "Charter" link (!) in the right-hand navigation bar):
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
:-)
> The two questions I expect this kind of document to answer
> are:
> 1. Who has a binding vote on what decisions?
> 2. Which decisions require a 3/4 majority of eligible voters
> and which a simple majority of votes cast?
>
> My current draft answers are:
> a) PMC level decisions are votes on releases, on changing
> the charter/bylaws, establishing new subprojects, and
> accepting new committers or PMC members. Only PMC members
> have a binding vote, decisions require three binding +1,
> vetos can be overruled by a 3/4 majority of PMC members.
> Votes are strictly binary: +/-1.
+1.
> b) other decisions (project plans, including a feature, new
> mailing list,...) require a simple majority of cast votes,
> with three binding +1. PMC members and committers have a
> binding vote. Votes can be non-binary: +/-0 +/-1.
+1 though only technical discussions so the new mailing list example
kind of falls out there; it should be a PMC task but that's a minor
nit...
> Of course, the distinction between PMC members and committers
> is currently hypothetical. But I like the idea of giving new
> committers a binding vote on some decisions from the start.
Yep, they definitely should have a say in technical discussions.
> Comments, thoughts, or other feedback?
Late but...
Cheers,
Erik
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 06.02.2008, at 22:15, Roland Weber wrote:
> Hi Erik,
>
>> charter == mission statement
>> bylaws == project guidelines
>>
>> Both can be pretty simple and don't need to be ultra-extensive, just
>> spelling out the basics (in case of the bylaws: pmc membership,
>> voting
>> guidelines, commit and release guidelines, ...).
>
> Oleg wanted to write a document on our development process,
> and I had also considered to write something about RTC/CTR
> into the bylaws. So you think we should put that there?
Yes, we can certainly put that into the bylaws though an additional
doc outlining various other details of the dev process also can't
hurt (e.g. covering patch format, style guide, ...) :)
As said, adapting the Jakarta Guidelines seems like the most sensible
and easiest to do - it's all in there already (AFAIK they are based
on the ones from HTTP, just a tad bit more elaborate).
>> Here's another simple but good example:
>> http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html
>
> Thanks. I had a brief look earlier, will give it some
> more attention later this week. Time sure flies :-(
Just an example of a very simple set of guidelines - they are
sufficient but we can certainly improve them (like Jakarta and others
did).
Cheers,
Erik
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net>.
Hi Erik,
> charter == mission statement
> bylaws == project guidelines
>
> Both can be pretty simple and don't need to be ultra-extensive, just
> spelling out the basics (in case of the bylaws: pmc membership, voting
> guidelines, commit and release guidelines, ...).
Oleg wanted to write a document on our development process,
and I had also considered to write something about RTC/CTR
into the bylaws. So you think we should put that there?
> Here's another simple but good example:
> http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html
Thanks. I had a brief look earlier, will give it some
more attention later this week. Time sure flies :-(
cheers,
Roland
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 09.01.2008, at 17:43, Roland Weber wrote:
> Roland Weber wrote:
>>
>> What exactly is a Project Charter, what are the Bylaws, and what
>> is the relation of the two? If this was a quiz show, I would have
>> guessed that the Charter describes the scope, and the Bylaws the
>> mode of operations. But maybe the two are one and the same?
>
> My Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary says:
>
> charter: ...
> a written statement of the principles and aims of an organization
>
> bylaw: ...(American English)
> a law or rule of a club or company
>
> So I'll draft two separate documents, the Charter with our aims
> and the Bylaws with our rules. This will take a few week-ends.
I think that captures it pretty good.
charter == mission statement
bylaws == project guidelines
Both can be pretty simple and don't need to be ultra-extensive, just
spelling out the basics (in case of the bylaws: pmc membership,
voting guidelines, commit and release guidelines, ...).
Here's another simple but good example: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/
guidelines.html
Cheers,
Erik
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net>.
Roland Weber wrote:
>
> What exactly is a Project Charter, what are the Bylaws, and what
> is the relation of the two? If this was a quiz show, I would have
> guessed that the Charter describes the scope, and the Bylaws the
> mode of operations. But maybe the two are one and the same?
My Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary says:
charter: ...
a written statement of the principles and aims of an organization
bylaw: ...(American English)
a law or rule of a club or company
So I'll draft two separate documents, the Charter with our aims
and the Bylaws with our rules. This will take a few week-ends.
cheers,
Roland
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Re: [discuss] project charter, bylaws, whatever
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 19:26 +0100, Roland Weber wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I've taken a look around at the "Charter" of some other projects.
> I've found anything from a simple scope description [1,2] or just
> the TLP proposal [3,4] to extensive descriptions with Mission,
> History, Terms and other stuff [5,6].
> What exactly is a Project Charter, what are the Bylaws, and what
> is the relation of the two? If this was a quiz show, I would have
> guessed that the Charter describes the scope, and the Bylaws the
> mode of operations. But maybe the two are one and the same?
>
> Taking a look at the Charter that Oleg drafted:
> http://hc.apache.org/charter.html
> I would prefer to...
> - expand the project scope description. It defines what we do.
> - drop the list of specifications. That reads more like a
> technical specification than a useful project description.
> Specifications can be listed with the components or modules
> that implement them.
> - replace the initial set of committers by a link to the
> accepted TLP proposal.
>
Roland
Feel free to make changes that you deem necessary. Once you are happy
with the charter and the bylaws let us keep it short and sweet: invite
others to review and make amendments and then call for a vote.
> Regarding the mode of operations, I can write something up
> based on the Jakarta Bylaws (which are accessible through
> the "Charter" link (!) in the right-hand navigation bar):
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
> The two questions I expect this kind of document to answer
> are:
> 1. Who has a binding vote on what decisions?
> 2. Which decisions require a 3/4 majority of eligible voters
> and which a simple majority of votes cast?
>
> My current draft answers are:
> a) PMC level decisions are votes on releases, on changing
> the charter/bylaws, establishing new subprojects, and
> accepting new committers or PMC members. Only PMC members
> have a binding vote, decisions require three binding +1,
> vetos can be overruled by a 3/4 majority of PMC members.
> Votes are strictly binary: +/-1.
> b) other decisions (project plans, including a feature, new
> mailing list,...) require a simple majority of cast votes,
> with three binding +1. PMC members and committers have a
> binding vote. Votes can be non-binary: +/-0 +/-1.
>
Makes sense.
> Of course, the distinction between PMC members and committers
> is currently hypothetical.
I guess this kind of structure suits larger projects better.
> But I like the idea of giving new
> committers a binding vote on some decisions from the start.
>
> Comments, thoughts, or other feedback?
>
Thanks for taking care of all these chores.
Cheers
Oleg
> cheers,
> Roland
>
> [1] http://lenya.apache.org/charter.html
> [2] http://db.apache.org/derby/derby_charter.html
> [3] http://commons.apache.org/charter.html
> [4] http://logging.apache.org/charter.html
> [5] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/charter.html
> [6] http://xalan.apache.org/charter.html
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@hc.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@hc.apache.org
>
>
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