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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by hammett <ha...@apache.org> on 2003/11/06 00:53:31 UTC
[OT] How old are you?
(I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
practice :-)
Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
from too ;-)
--
hammett
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
This thread is really depressing!
:-(
Alex Karasulu wrote:
>30 Jacksonville FL USA
>
>Alex
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: hammett [mailto:hammett@apache.org]
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:33 PM
>>To: Avalon Developers List
>>Subject: Re: [OT] How old are you?
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "hammett" <ha...@apache.org>
>>
>>
>>24 - Brazil - Sao Paulo
>>
>>
>>--
>>hammett
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Stephen J. McConnell
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
30 Jacksonville FL USA
Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hammett [mailto:hammett@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:33 PM
> To: Avalon Developers List
> Subject: Re: [OT] How old are you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hammett" <ha...@apache.org>
>
>
> 24 - Brazil - Sao Paulo
>
>
> --
> hammett
>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by hammett <ha...@apache.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hammett" <ha...@apache.org>
24 - Brazil - Sao Paulo
--
hammett
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
31, Leesburg, VA (USA)
hammett wrote:
> (I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
> Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
> practice :-)
>
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
> from too ;-)
>
> --
> hammett
>
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>
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Neeme Praks <ne...@apache.org>.
25. from Estonia, Kuusalu (small place near Tallinn)
No real picture on the web yet unfortunately.
hammett wrote:
>(I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
>Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
>practice :-)
>
>Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
>from too ;-)
>
>--
>hammett
>
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Hammett while your at it throw me in there will ya ;-).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:25 PM
> To: Avalon Developers List
> Subject: Re: [OT] How old are you?
>
>
>
> hammett wrote:
>
> >>Better yet, committers could update their information in the 'Who we
> >>are' section of the site:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I though it was an area for PMC members... :-\
> >
>
> Nope - even lowly committers can get their names in lights!
> Just add a page and update the navigation.xml document.
> ;-)
>
> Stephen.
>
> >
> >
> >regards,
> >hammett
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Stephen J. McConnell
> mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
hammett wrote:
>>Better yet, committers could update their information in the 'Who we
>>are' section of the site:
>>
>>
>
>I though it was an area for PMC members... :-\
>
Nope - even lowly committers can get their names in lights!
Just add a page and update the navigation.xml document.
;-)
Stephen.
>
>
>regards,
>hammett
>
>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by hammett <ha...@apache.org>.
> Better yet, committers could update their information in the 'Who we
> are' section of the site:
I though it was an area for PMC members... :-\
regards,
hammett
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 18:53, hammett wrote:
> (I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
> Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
> practice :-)
>
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
> from too ;-)
25, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Better yet, committers could update their information in the 'Who we
are' section of the site:
http://avalon.apache.org/community/who/index.html
;)
--
jaaron <http://jadetower.org>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> 20, Enschede, The Netherlands
>
> hint: Steve's got a son roughly my age :D
19 actually - his birthday was just last week.
Steve.
>
>
> - LSD
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
20, Enschede, The Netherlands
hint: Steve's got a son roughly my age :D
- LSD
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Alexis Agahi <al...@users.sf.net>.
On Thursday 06 November 2003 22:29, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> >Dont worry steve you look younger than me ;) Everybody know that avalon is
> > the 10th iteration of your first 'Cobol Component Framework'. ;)
>
> LOL - actually, it was Fortan!
Fortran 70 obviously ;))
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 07 November 2003 10:00, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> >I say IMSAI 8080!!!! Will your framework be useful for bootstrapping that
> >machine?
The IMSAI was a personal computer! But you had to bootstrap by loading the
machinecode into each memory adress by flipping 24 binary switches.
> Personal favourite is the PDP 11 - you had the lights - the little
> flashing signals to tell you what was happening. I could see the
> differnece between build versus runtime just by looking at the sequences!
Except for the "grand tour", I never saw a bigger computer than a personal
one, and those didn't have any lights ;o(
Niclas
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> Personal favourite is the PDP 11 - you had the lights - the little
> flashing signals to tell you what was happening. I could see the
> differnece between build versus runtime just by looking at the sequences!
You should have tried using an AM/FM radio. Our PM* guys used to use one to
diagnose the system. They could tell what was happening by listening to the
static. We'd see them once a week.
One of the things we had was an inflatable dinosaur. When the system was
down, to allay the questions of dozens of students trundling through the
corridors to peek through the glass and ask if the system was down, we'd
turn the dinosaur on its back. If you saw the brontosaurus ("Sinclair")
with its feet in the air, you knew the computer was down.
--- Noel
* Preventive Maintenance
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>On Friday 07 November 2003 05:42, Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
>>I feel for the people who had to suffer young "hip"
>>COBOL coders walking around and spreading buzzwords all over
>>the place... :)
>>
>>
>
>;o) The "really hip" people (who had a brain) was buzzing all over the place
>over APL (A Programming Language). More obfuscated language is hard to come
>by, but great in solving matrix solveable algorithms.
>
>
>
>>A lecturer at KTH told me about coding way-back-when: You turned
>>in your code on cards to the computer operator and had them processed.
>>Then, whenever the computer was finished (depending on load and other
>>people's jobs queued up to go), the operator would give you back a
>>printout of the program output. (For you real young ones - yes
>>that means *you* in particular - by "computer operator" I mean an
>>actual human being.)
>>
>>
>
>When I got to LTH (for non-swedish members, KTH = Royal Polytechnic Uni,
>LTH=Lunds Polytechnic Uni, 2 of the 3 top engineering Us there), we were
>instructed of those procedures.
>The distribution of output, however, was really neat; The top card contained
>stuff like user name, banner type, printer type, but also distribution center
>(there were something like 4-5 of them), where you would pick up the output.
>You could also say; By Mail, postal service that is!!!
>
>However, a great deal of time was explained on it, and I never used it beyond
>the "training". The on-line terminals were "too cool", and at night you could
>get access to vector terminals (read graphics), which had no automatic
>refresh, it was a manual operation to clear the screen physically, and then
>the program could draw a new image by vector coordinates again.
>
>
>
>
>>Turnaround times were fast at night when almost no one used the
>>computer - only about two hours.
>>
>>
>
>And better yet; The CPU time cost USD500 per hour on a VAX and USD 1200 on the
>Sperry Univac, but students didn't have to pay, just wait....
>
A long time ago I did a deal with this commercial computing center -
basically the deal was that I could do what I wanted beteen 9pm and
9am. I would walk in the door at about 8:45 carrying a disk pack
(cylindracal disc about 40 cm in diameter and about 15 cm deep). I
would go into the computer room, power-down the most advanced computing
system in the country, swap disks, reboot - and start playing.
>>Now back to my "Component Framework for Front Panel Switches"...
>>
>>
>
>I say IMSAI 8080!!!! Will your framework be useful for bootstrapping that
>machine?
>
Personal favourite is the PDP 11 - you had the lights - the little
flashing signals to tell you what was happening. I could see the
differnece between build versus runtime just by looking at the sequences!
I miss those days!
Steve.
>
>
>
>Cheers
>Niclas
>
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>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>
>
>>Basic -> HP calculator -> Assembly (8031->8088->PIC) -> C ->
>>(C++) -> Java -> JavaCPU
>>
>>
>
>TI Calculator (TI-52 and TI-59) -> Algol -> PDP-11 ASM -> Pascal -> APL ->
>BAL -> LISP -> prolog -> Ada -> C -> 68K ASM -> Forth -> Smalltalk -> C++ ->
>Java
>
HP41CV -> DCL (and related VMS languages) -> Fortran -> C (v/brief)
-> Prolog <-> Flex -> Dylan (and a variety of agent-oriented
research langages) -> Java
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 07 November 2003 23:14, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> TI Calculator (TI-52 and TI-59) -> Algol -> PDP-11 ASM -> Pascal -> APL ->
> BAL -> LISP -> prolog -> Ada -> C -> 68K ASM -> Forth -> Smalltalk -> C++
> -> Java
Ohhh, I forgot, in 1984/85 (v1) and 1986 (v2) I was part of a two man team
that designed EXOL, which is a process control oriented language used in
Exomatic.se equipment. Bytecode interpreter in the runtime... pretty ahead of
its time then.
And I have done tons of programming in that language after that.
Niclas
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 07 November 2003 11:28, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Which Sperry Univac? I used several different models, but the two I
used
> > the most were a beloved 90/70, and a 1100/62 that *no one* liked.
> That I no longer remember...
> Mind you we are talking 83/84, so these dinosaurs were really days after
> meteorite struck (IBM PC, and the take over of mammals, such as
single-user
> systems, networking and the now dominant species Windows, which by
definition
> would have problem to survive a catastrophy...).
IIRC, I believe that I'd heard that the 1100/62 piece of garbage was the
last mainframe, followed by a herd of Vaxen, followed by I don't know what
at this point.
> Basic -> HP calculator -> Assembly (8031->8088->PIC) -> C ->
> (C++) -> Java -> JavaCPU
TI Calculator (TI-52 and TI-59) -> Algol -> PDP-11 ASM -> Pascal -> APL ->
BAL -> LISP -> prolog -> Ada -> C -> 68K ASM -> Forth -> Smalltalk -> C++ ->
Java
Over the years, I probably did the most in Pascal, 68K ASM, C/C++ and Java.
And SQL, if that counts.
--- Noel
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 07 November 2003 11:28, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Which Sperry Univac? I used several different models, but the two I used
> the most were a beloved 90/70, and a 1100/62 that *no one* liked.
That I no longer remember...
Mind you we are talking 83/84, so these dinosaurs were really days after
meteorite struck (IBM PC, and the take over of mammals, such as single-user
systems, networking and the now dominant species Windows, which by definition
would have problem to survive a catastrophy...).
Professional career;
Basic -> HP calculator -> Assembly (8031->8088->PIC) -> C -> (C++) -> Java ->
JavaCPU
Don't remember the model number of the HP Calculator, but it was hardly a
pocket one, more like a computer, but only paper-print output, an enhanced
calculator keyboard, and IEEE-488 interface. I did a Tomato breeding
measurement and data collection system with that, connecting to a weighing
machine... First job I got paid for, ~USD100.
For fun;
Basic -> TI57/58/59, HP41C -> Assembly( 6502->Z80->8088) -> Fortran, Pascal,
APL, Juno (Ada clone), Lisp -> C -> Java
(There were days when I thought that being a good programmer meant you could
program any language.)
The OLD crowd is getting sentimental over nostalgia of a lost era (Jurrasic
times).
Cheers,
Niclas
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The "really hip" people (who had a brain) was buzzing all
> over the place over APL (A Programming Language).
<<grin>> Where I went to school, we were responsible for the APL that Univac
shipped commercially. APL was fun. I still have an APL terminal, with the
keyboard.
> The CPU time cost USD500 per hour on a VAX and USD 1200 on the
> Sperry Univac
Which Sperry Univac? I used several different models, but the two I used
the most were a beloved 90/70, and a 1100/62 that *no one* liked.
--- Noel
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 07 November 2003 05:42, Leo Sutic wrote:
> I feel for the people who had to suffer young "hip"
> COBOL coders walking around and spreading buzzwords all over
> the place... :)
;o) The "really hip" people (who had a brain) was buzzing all over the place
over APL (A Programming Language). More obfuscated language is hard to come
by, but great in solving matrix solveable algorithms.
> A lecturer at KTH told me about coding way-back-when: You turned
> in your code on cards to the computer operator and had them processed.
> Then, whenever the computer was finished (depending on load and other
> people's jobs queued up to go), the operator would give you back a
> printout of the program output. (For you real young ones - yes
> that means *you* in particular - by "computer operator" I mean an
> actual human being.)
When I got to LTH (for non-swedish members, KTH = Royal Polytechnic Uni,
LTH=Lunds Polytechnic Uni, 2 of the 3 top engineering Us there), we were
instructed of those procedures.
The distribution of output, however, was really neat; The top card contained
stuff like user name, banner type, printer type, but also distribution center
(there were something like 4-5 of them), where you would pick up the output.
You could also say; By Mail, postal service that is!!!
However, a great deal of time was explained on it, and I never used it beyond
the "training". The on-line terminals were "too cool", and at night you could
get access to vector terminals (read graphics), which had no automatic
refresh, it was a manual operation to clear the screen physically, and then
the program could draw a new image by vector coordinates again.
> Turnaround times were fast at night when almost no one used the
> computer - only about two hours.
And better yet; The CPU time cost USD500 per hour on a VAX and USD 1200 on the
Sperry Univac, but students didn't have to pay, just wait....
> Now back to my "Component Framework for Front Panel Switches"...
I say IMSAI 8080!!!! Will your framework be useful for bootstrapping that
machine?
Cheers
Niclas
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> A lecturer at KTH told me about coding way-back-when: You turned
> in your code on cards to the computer operator and had them
> processed. Then, whenever the computer was finished (depending
> on load and other people's jobs queued up to go), the operator
> would give you back a printout of the program output.
Actually, we had access to the card readers, and we had bins where the
printouts were put by the operators. Earning a machine room key was a
milestone, and not for everyone. The cognoscenti waited until the evening
backup finished at 2330 or so, since most people would leave when access was
disabled for backup. The term "Moore School mole" was coined to refer to
people who came upstairs to see the sun when the morning shift operators
arrived. Generally they'd send out a little weather report when they got to
the operator's console.
For my the final project of my 3rd year operating systems course, most
students were averaging about 6000 CPU seconds per batch for each of 5
batches. I wrote the code a bit more cleverly, and it ran in 400 seconds
for the entire suite. The trick? Why simulate time that didn't have
anything interesting happening? Mind you, I spent a lot of time checking
the results because I couldn't quite believe that it was *that* much faster.
The first mainframe computer I used required manually punching cards. After
that experience, I swore I'd never use one again, and I never did, although
I did use half-duplex terminals into which we'd hacked an editor (if I
recall correctly, David Garfield did the first hack, and a group of us built
on it).
First language: assembly followed by ALGOL
First book: Techniques of Program Structure and Design (Yourdon)
--- Noel
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
>
> LOL - actually, it was Fortan!
I feel for the people who had to suffer young "hip"
COBOL coders walking around and spreading buzzwords all over
the place... :)
A lecturer at KTH told me about coding way-back-when: You turned
in your code on cards to the computer operator and had them processed.
Then, whenever the computer was finished (depending on load and other
people's jobs queued up to go), the operator would give you back a
printout of the program output. (For you real young ones - yes
that means *you* in particular - by "computer operator" I mean an
actual human being.)
Turnaround times were fast at night when almost no one used the
computer - only about two hours.
He told me that you could see if it had gone well or not almost
just by looking at the size of the printout. If unlucky, it would
be a single line strip of paper with the text
"SYNTAX ERROR"
or similar.
Now back to my "Component Framework for Front Panel Switches"...
/LS
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Alexis Agahi wrote:
>On Thursday 06 November 2003 00:53, hammett wrote:
>
>
>>(I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>>
>>Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
>>practice :-)
>>
>>Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
>>from too ;-)
>>
>>
>
>30 - Paris
>
>Dont worry steve you look younger than me ;) Everybody know that avalon is the
>10th iteration of your first 'Cobol Component Framework'. ;)
>
>
LOL - actually, it was Fortan!
SJM
>I hope that hammett is computing data for statistical result feedback ;)
>
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>
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Alexis Agahi <al...@users.sf.net>.
On Thursday 06 November 2003 00:53, hammett wrote:
> (I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
> Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
> practice :-)
>
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
> from too ;-)
30 - Paris
Dont worry steve you look younger than me ;) Everybody know that avalon is the
10th iteration of your first 'Cobol Component Framework'. ;)
I hope that hammett is computing data for statistical result feedback ;)
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Timothy Bennett <ex...@comcast.net>.
"hammett" <ha...@apache.org> wrote in message
news:002801c3a3f8$0583b380$582962c8@keldorfortress...
> (I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
> Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
> practice :-)
>
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
> from too ;-)
>
37... Nashville, TN
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Re: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by peter royal <pr...@apache.org>.
hammett wrote:
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are
> you
> from too ;-)
26, jacksonville, fl. will be NYC in the spring, whoho!
-pete
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RE: [OT] How old are you?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
hammett wrote:
>
> (I sent this wrongly to dev@cocoon - my intention was avalon. Sorry!)
>
> Yes, I am studying english and I learned this phrase yesterday so I must
> practice :-)
>
> Seriously, its just curiosity. It would be nicer if you drop where are you
> from too ;-)
>
31, Paderborn - Germany
Carsten
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