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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl> on 2000/02/18 14:21:28 UTC
Cocoon2 & Avalon
Hello,
I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and Avalon. Is
Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces? I also heard something about
an 'org.apache.arch'-package, is this Avalon or is it a part of Avalon
that's gonna be used in other projects (like Cocoon2)?
Gerard
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> Gerard van Enk wrote:
> >
> > And will Cocoon be the component-manager or will Cocoon be a component
> > itself so it can be used by other programs that use the
> Avalon-framework???
>
> It will be the ComponentManager, and I believe in the future it will be
> also a Block so it will be possiblie its integration with Avalon...
> The model is:
>
> Avalon --> Blocks --> Components
>
> ( --> means contains)
Ok, that's clear......
>
> > I think something like the last option can be very usefull,
> people can add
> > their own components that can be used inside the Cocoon-components (like
> > inside XSP-taglibraries) by adding them to the upper
> framework.....Or could
> > these components just be added to the Cocoon configuration-file?
>
> To specify new components you will need only to add them (now) to the
> Cocoon configuration file... I still have a couple of "black spots"
> seeing the global integration of Cocoon with Avalon... I believe they'll
> fade away at ApacheCON...
It's a pity I won't be there 8-(
Gerard
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> And will Cocoon be the component-manager or will Cocoon be a component
> itself so it can be used by other programs that use the Avalon-framework???
It will be the ComponentManager, and I believe in the future it will be
also a Block so it will be possiblie its integration with Avalon...
The model is:
Avalon --> Blocks --> Components
( --> means contains)
> I think something like the last option can be very usefull, people can add
> their own components that can be used inside the Cocoon-components (like
> inside XSP-taglibraries) by adding them to the upper framework.....Or could
> these components just be added to the Cocoon configuration-file?
To specify new components you will need only to add them (now) to the
Cocoon configuration file... I still have a couple of "black spots"
seeing the global integration of Cocoon with Avalon... I believe they'll
fade away at ApacheCON...
Pier
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> Avalon. Is
> > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces? I also heard
> something about
> > an 'org.apache.arch'-package, is this Avalon or is it a part of Avalon
> > that's gonna be used in other projects (like Cocoon2)?
>
> Not all of them.... But some... I'm rewriting the alpha-0 using them...
And will Cocoon be the component-manager or will Cocoon be a component
itself so it can be used by other programs that use the Avalon-framework???
I think something like the last option can be very usefull, people can add
their own components that can be used inside the Cocoon-components (like
inside XSP-taglibraries) by adding them to the upper framework.....Or could
these components just be added to the Cocoon configuration-file?
Gerard
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and Avalon. Is
> Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces? I also heard something about
> an 'org.apache.arch'-package, is this Avalon or is it a part of Avalon
> that's gonna be used in other projects (like Cocoon2)?
Not all of them.... But some... I'm rewriting the alpha-0 using them...
Pier
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> If you don't know what JAM is, wait a sec... we'll get there :)
Or call 408 730 5741... He's answering...
Pier
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> > > JAM is Pier's "Java Answering Machine"... you find pieces of it in the
> > > whiteboard CVS module inside java.apache.org CVS.
> >
> > Aha....interesting. I'll check out the whiteboard module!
>
> Yes. Most of it was lost on a NT disk crash a while back. (don't ask
> Pier about NT I/O subsystem ;), but the ideas and some code are still
> valid.
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH....
Whatever... You know those nice black boxes called DATS, well, this
christmas I got back from Italy my old tape, and, by chance, I found
some of the ADPCM java encoding/decoding classes... It took a couple of
hours with a few tweaks, it's not Avalonish, but it talks! (and
listens!)
Pier
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> > Gerard van Enk wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> > > > Avalon. Is
> > > > > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
> > > Avalon-configuration?
> >
> > Not yet :)
> >
> > Ok, you asked for it... here is my vision of the future... mind you, not
> > so close future, but you can bet we're going to get there sooner of
> > later!
> >
> > I picture JAMES + Tomcat + Cocoon + JAM all residing inside an Avalon
> > framework.
> >
> > If you don't know what JAM is, wait a sec... we'll get there :)
> >
> > The Cocoon engine will be a block, but Tomcat and James will connet to
> > it thru "adapting" classes that wrap the block and make it
> > "avalon-neutral" to be executable in other environments.
> >
> > Thes adaptors will be an HTTPServlet and MailServlet. Cocoon on the
> > other hand, might be used as a service from other blocks without
> > adapting classes.
> >
> > (warning: if you don't know avalon terminology, go and find out at
> > http://java.apache.org/framework/ or ignore this message)
>
> Are these adapting classes already defined by Avalon? I can't remember
> reading about these classes in the Avalon stuff.....
No, but they're simpler than what you worry: they are simple a class
that implements the servlet interface (mail or http) and call the
"working" methods of the Cocoon block.
To get dirty: simply make org.apache.cocoon.Cocoon implement Block and
you're done :)
This is called "forward compatibility" :)
> >
> > JAM is Pier's "Java Answering Machine"... you find pieces of it in the
> > whiteboard CVS module inside java.apache.org CVS.
> >
>
> Aha....interesting. I'll check out the whiteboard module!
Yes. Most of it was lost on a NT disk crash a while back. (don't ask
Pier about NT I/O subsystem ;), but the ideas and some code are still
valid.
> > JAM will be an Avalon block that connects to your modem/fax thru Java
> > Serial Interface and drives your fax and answering machine.
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > Now, let's see a couple of things you'll be able to do with this "Apache
> > Java BackOffice"
> >
> > 1) mail-fax-web integration, all based on XML!
> >
> > 2) servlets will allow you to customize your system without knowing
> > nasty programming languages or complex solutions. HttpServlets will do
> > web, MailServlets will do mail, FaxServlets will do fax and if possible,
> > VoiceServlets will handle DTMF tones or simple voice recognition.
> >
> > If you think about it once you have something like this and a solid
> > database on the back, you're done... more, with support for CORBA
> > integration from Java, you can connect with stuff like credit-card
> > managers or other complex systems with no particular problems.
> >
> > We plan to make a complet platform for developing the server-side
> > applications that you need, for both your public web site or your
> > intranet. All based on Java technology and standard APIs, all
> > modularized and easily enhanced, all based on the XML publishing model.
> >
> > It's not a matter of "if", but just a matter of "when" :)
>
> And with more people working on this, the "when" will be getting sooner and
> sooner ;-)
We wish to come up with a complete JAMES 1.0b distribution in a few
weeks, all with SMTP + POP3 + MailServlets + DNS hooks + some useful
mail servlets (majordomo, i'm-on-vacation, timestamp)
Don't throw away your sendmail yet... but when JAMES is out, you will
count it's days :)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Come to the first official Apache Software Foundation Conference!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> Gerard van Enk wrote:
> >
> > > > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> > > Avalon. Is
> > > > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
> > Avalon-configuration?
>
> Not yet :)
>
> Ok, you asked for it... here is my vision of the future... mind you, not
> so close future, but you can bet we're going to get there sooner of
> later!
>
> I picture JAMES + Tomcat + Cocoon + JAM all residing inside an Avalon
> framework.
>
> If you don't know what JAM is, wait a sec... we'll get there :)
>
> The Cocoon engine will be a block, but Tomcat and James will connet to
> it thru "adapting" classes that wrap the block and make it
> "avalon-neutral" to be executable in other environments.
>
> Thes adaptors will be an HTTPServlet and MailServlet. Cocoon on the
> other hand, might be used as a service from other blocks without
> adapting classes.
>
> (warning: if you don't know avalon terminology, go and find out at
> http://java.apache.org/framework/ or ignore this message)
Are these adapting classes already defined by Avalon? I can't remember
reading about these classes in the Avalon stuff.....
>
> JAM is Pier's "Java Answering Machine"... you find pieces of it in the
> whiteboard CVS module inside java.apache.org CVS.
>
Aha....interesting. I'll check out the whiteboard module!
> JAM will be an Avalon block that connects to your modem/fax thru Java
> Serial Interface and drives your fax and answering machine.
>
> ---------------
>
> Now, let's see a couple of things you'll be able to do with this "Apache
> Java BackOffice"
>
> 1) mail-fax-web integration, all based on XML!
>
> 2) servlets will allow you to customize your system without knowing
> nasty programming languages or complex solutions. HttpServlets will do
> web, MailServlets will do mail, FaxServlets will do fax and if possible,
> VoiceServlets will handle DTMF tones or simple voice recognition.
>
> If you think about it once you have something like this and a solid
> database on the back, you're done... more, with support for CORBA
> integration from Java, you can connect with stuff like credit-card
> managers or other complex systems with no particular problems.
>
> We plan to make a complet platform for developing the server-side
> applications that you need, for both your public web site or your
> intranet. All based on Java technology and standard APIs, all
> modularized and easily enhanced, all based on the XML publishing model.
>
> It's not a matter of "if", but just a matter of "when" :)
And with more people working on this, the "when" will be getting sooner and
sooner ;-)
Gerard
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> > > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> > Avalon. Is
> > > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
> >
> > No.
>
> But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
> Avalon-configuration?
Not yet :)
Ok, you asked for it... here is my vision of the future... mind you, not
so close future, but you can bet we're going to get there sooner of
later!
I picture JAMES + Tomcat + Cocoon + JAM all residing inside an Avalon
framework.
If you don't know what JAM is, wait a sec... we'll get there :)
The Cocoon engine will be a block, but Tomcat and James will connet to
it thru "adapting" classes that wrap the block and make it
"avalon-neutral" to be executable in other environments.
Thes adaptors will be an HTTPServlet and MailServlet. Cocoon on the
other hand, might be used as a service from other blocks without
adapting classes.
(warning: if you don't know avalon terminology, go and find out at
http://java.apache.org/framework/ or ignore this message)
JAM is Pier's "Java Answering Machine"... you find pieces of it in the
whiteboard CVS module inside java.apache.org CVS.
JAM will be an Avalon block that connects to your modem/fax thru Java
Serial Interface and drives your fax and answering machine.
---------------
Now, let's see a couple of things you'll be able to do with this "Apache
Java BackOffice"
1) mail-fax-web integration, all based on XML!
2) servlets will allow you to customize your system without knowing
nasty programming languages or complex solutions. HttpServlets will do
web, MailServlets will do mail, FaxServlets will do fax and if possible,
VoiceServlets will handle DTMF tones or simple voice recognition.
If you think about it once you have something like this and a solid
database on the back, you're done... more, with support for CORBA
integration from Java, you can connect with stuff like credit-card
managers or other complex systems with no particular problems.
We plan to make a complet platform for developing the server-side
applications that you need, for both your public web site or your
intranet. All based on Java technology and standard APIs, all
modularized and easily enhanced, all based on the XML publishing model.
It's not a matter of "if", but just a matter of "when" :)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Come to the first official Apache Software Foundation Conference!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> Need any help???? 8-)
YEEEEESSSS.... I'm going totally nuts... I almost finished, but after
the first writing (wich is taking waaay too much time) there will be SO
MUCH STUFF to do to finish this thing, that we'll be happy to have it
out of beta in 2002...
pIER
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> Gerard van Enk wrote:
> >
> > > > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> > > Avalon. Is
> > > > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
> > Avalon-configuration?
>
> Right now it is not, I didn't yet touchbase with Federico (developing
> Avalon) on that, but I'm sharing their same configuration objects, so,
> it's possible to do it...
> I still have to work out a couple of details, but BLOCK is the goal!
Need any help???? 8-)
Gerard
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Pierpaolo Fumagalli <pi...@apache.org>.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> > > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> > Avalon. Is
> > > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
> >
> > No.
>
> But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
> Avalon-configuration?
Right now it is not, I didn't yet touchbase with Federico (developing
Avalon) on that, but I'm sharing their same configuration objects, so,
it's possible to do it...
I still have to work out a couple of details, but BLOCK is the goal!
Pier
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- P I E R -
stable structure erected over water to allow the docking of seacraft
<ma...@betaversion.org> <http://www.betaversion.org/~pier/>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
- ApacheCON Y2K: Come to the official Apache developers conference -
-------------------- <http://www.apachecon.com> --------------------
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> Avalon. Is
> > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
>
> No.
But Cocoon is going to be a Block so that it can be used inside an
Avalon-configuration?
Gerard
RE: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Gerard van Enk <ge...@eo.nl>.
> Sorry for the delay, but my ISP broke my mailbox and I was kicked out
> friday evening... stupid murphy law.
>
Ahah.....I thought you were having a vacation ;-)
> Gerard van Enk wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and
> Avalon. Is
> > Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
>
> No.
>
So it's just gonna use a subset of the Avalon-interfaces?
> > I also heard something about an 'org.apache.arch'-package, is this
> > Avalon or is it a part of Avalon
> > that's gonna be used in other projects (like Cocoon2)?
>
> It's an API for internal components that will be distributed with
> Avalon, but doesn't require the Avalon complexities and can be
> distributed independently.
>
Ok, I understand.....
> Fop might also use it, too.
The more the better 8-)
Gerard
Re: Cocoon2 & Avalon
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Sorry for the delay, but my ISP broke my mailbox and I was kicked out
friday evening... stupid murphy law.
Gerard van Enk wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've got a question about the relationship between Cocoon2 and Avalon. Is
> Cocoon2 going to use all the Avalon-interfaces?
No.
> I also heard something about an 'org.apache.arch'-package, is this
> Avalon or is it a part of Avalon
> that's gonna be used in other projects (like Cocoon2)?
It's an API for internal components that will be distributed with
Avalon, but doesn't require the Avalon complexities and can be
distributed independently.
Fop might also use it, too.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Come to the first official Apache Software Foundation Conference!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------