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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com> on 2006/01/01 14:36:58 UTC
Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
(Note, this is just an experiment....)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org
References: <NB...@devtech.com>
<3E...@gbiv.com>
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Dec 31, 2005, at 7:34 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
[SNIP]
> I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
> Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
> free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
> and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
> other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
> that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a good
bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't have
the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
few other odds and ends.
It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
If you want to see it :
http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
Happy New Year
geir
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
+1 (in other words "Make it so!")
-- dims
On 1/1/06, Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
> messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
>
> (Note, this is just an experiment....)
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
> Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> References: <NB...@devtech.com>
> <3E...@gbiv.com>
>
>
>
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > On Dec 31, 2005, at 7:34 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >
> [SNIP]
> > I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
> > Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
> > free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
> > and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
> > other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
> > that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
>
> Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a good
> bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
>
> It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't have
> the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
> few other odds and ends.
>
> It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
>
> If you want to see it :
>
> http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
>
> Happy New Year
>
> geir
>
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>
>
>
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>
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
> (Note, this is just an experiment....)
+1 to make it the default. (I'll try to provide some help as time permits.)
Even with the floogy woogy stuff, it's more useful than the current site. =)
Thanks. -- justin
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 1/1/06, Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
> messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
+1. I like it.
And I especially like the "Flooga Wagie Foo Foo" news. ;-)
Happy New Year!
--
Martin Cooper
(Note, this is just an experiment....)
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
> Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> References: <NB...@devtech.com>
> <3E...@gbiv.com>
>
>
>
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > On Dec 31, 2005, at 7:34 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >
> [SNIP]
> > I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
> > Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
> > free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
> > and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
> > other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
> > that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
>
> Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a good
> bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
>
> It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't have
> the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
> few other odds and ends.
>
> It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
>
> If you want to see it :
>
> http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
>
> Happy New Year
>
> geir
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >What is happening now? There was a flurry of +1 from
> >PMC members. What is the next step in moving to Anakia?
>
> I was going to do the /project docs (as they seem to be critical).
>
> At that point, I think all is there, and we could go forward. I may be
> inspired today to put in a little block of time to just get that done.
>
> I figure they don't have to be perfect - each podling can nip and tuck
> to fix any minor errors that happened.
That is fine. There are already imperfections in the
current html sources for the projects/* status reports.
-David
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> What is happening now? There was a flurry of +1 from
> PMC members. What is the next step in moving to Anakia?
I was going to do the /project docs (as they seem to be critical).
At that point, I think all is there, and we could go forward. I may be
inspired today to put in a little block of time to just get that done.
I figure they don't have to be perfect - each podling can nip and tuck
to fix any minor errors that happened.
geir
>
> -David
>
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>
>>I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
>>messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
>>
>>(Note, this is just an experiment....)
>>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
>>Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
>>From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
>>Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>References: <NB...@devtech.com>
>><3E...@gbiv.com>
>>
>>Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>>
>>[SNIP]
>>
>>>I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
>>>Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
>>>free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
>>>and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
>>>other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
>>>that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
>>
>>Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a good
>>bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
>>
>>http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
>>
>>It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't have
>>the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
>>few other odds and ends.
>>
>>It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
>>
>>If you want to see it :
>>
>>http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
>>
>>Happy New Year
>>
>>geir
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
What is happening now? There was a flurry of +1 from
PMC members. What is the next step in moving to Anakia?
-David
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
> messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
>
> (Note, this is just an experiment....)
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
> Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> References: <NB...@devtech.com>
> <3E...@gbiv.com>
>
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> >
> [SNIP]
> >I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
> >Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
> >free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
> >and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
> >other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
> >that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
>
> Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a good
> bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
>
> It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't have
> the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
> few other odds and ends.
>
> It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
>
> If you want to see it :
>
> http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
>
> Happy New Year
>
> geir
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Geir's experiment was incomplete and he reported
> difficulty with some docs. Perhaps the following
> will help, or perhaps you already have a better
> solution.
I just want people to stay informed over here. You can see David is keen
to support your move away from Forrest, I'm keen to ensure the decision
is a well informed one. However, as stated previously I am also keen to
see you use the right tool for your needs - this is information for
those who want it, *not* a continuing campaign to change minds.
Forrest now has the following improvements as a result of feedback here:
Look and Feel
-------------
I've now completed the first prototype of an ASF Theme. This is
different to the ASF skin I linked to last week, it uses the forthcoming
Dispatcher code which is a replacement for the skin system (some
advantages are that it is much easier to manage, produces much cleaner
output, you can change the layout/style of a page on a per directory or
even per page basis and much more).
The Theme is not 100% complete, I'm no CSS expert. It is already better
than the skin I knocked together earlier. Both need the attention of a
CSS person to finally polish off though.
Note the output of both the skin and the theme is 100% CSS, not a table
in sight, no spacer gifs no inline style. Just clear, concise HTML output.
Workflow
--------
Geir suggested that we should enable the saving of documents from a
"forrest run" preview to the local build directoy to prevent the need to
separately build a site.
This now works, but only with a Firefox extension, it will work with any
browser when someone decides to do that work. It's really easy to get
other browsers to do it (it's just a request for a specific URL to enact
the save). The intention is to have an "in page" menu for this when
running in "dev" mode.
This allow the saving of a single page and the use of svn diffs to
ensure the expected changes have been made - as requested.
Next step is to enable a full site rebuild and a site deploy from within
the browser (no more console/browser switching).
NOTE
====
Both of these features are in SVN trunk. I have no intention of
backporting them to the 0.7 branch.
Ross
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 1/4/06, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>There is a way to use Forrest itself to produce
>>xml output ...
>>
>>----------------------------
>>0)
>>Assuming that forrest is installed as per:
>>http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
>
>
>
> i've been following this debate (off and on) for quite a while now (but had
> a bit of break without internet at Christmas) and wonder whether this step
> is a (the?) fundemental problem. IIRC one of the crucial things about
> gaining acceptance of anakia from those outside jakarta was that it ran with
> minimal installation.
Please, don't open that whole can of worms again ;-)
Installation of Forrest is as easy as Anakia, if not eaiser (download,
unpack) and has the same pre-requisites.
For some reason Incubator is using a branch of the 0.7 release, this
requires an SVN download. However, there is nothing stopping someone
building a snapshot of this branch and making it available to the
Incubator people (we are discussing just this kind of process on the
Forrest dev lists right now).
> i note that a lot of the issues noted by those using forrest on this list
> were solved by David but often required an upgrade.
Yes, Forrest is not yet at a 1.0 release.
The 0.7 release introduced a plugin mechanism that allows small parts of
the system to be upgraded independantly of the rest.
> the anakia binaries used to generate the foundation site are stored in
> subversion and can be run very simply. perhaps committed a fully configured
> installation to subversion would make things a lot easier.
Yes, see above.
However, it seems pretty clear that the majority here want to move away
from Forrest. There is a perception that Anakia will server the
Incubators needs better.
For other projects still using Forrest, the above recomendation is being
discussed by the Forrest devs.
Ross
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/4/06, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> There is a way to use Forrest itself to produce
> xml output ...
>
> ----------------------------
> 0)
> Assuming that forrest is installed as per:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
i've been following this debate (off and on) for quite a while now (but had
a bit of break without internet at Christmas) and wonder whether this step
is a (the?) fundemental problem. IIRC one of the crucial things about
gaining acceptance of anakia from those outside jakarta was that it ran with
minimal installation.
i note that a lot of the issues noted by those using forrest on this list
were solved by David but often required an upgrade. we've run into similar
problems with maven over in the commons in jakartaland: insisting that
people upgrade their maven installs to a very specific configuration and
versions which change regularly has proved a definite disincentive to people
contributing and maintaining communal documentation.
the anakia binaries used to generate the foundation site are stored in
subversion and can be run very simply. perhaps committed a fully configured
installation to subversion would make things a lot easier.
- robert
Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Geir's experiment was incomplete and he reported
difficulty with some docs. Perhaps the following
will help, or perhaps you already have a better
solution.
There is a way to use Forrest itself to produce
xml output ...
----------------------------
0)
Assuming that forrest is installed as per:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html
----------------------------
1)
Temporarily add the "xml-link". This will cause
forrest to also generate an xml version of each page.
edit site-author/skinconf.xml at line 46
- <disable-xml-link>true</disable-xml-link>
+ <disable-xml-link>false</disable-xml-link>
I gather that when Stefano built the orginal
DTDs for Forrest that he might have started from
the Anakia xml format. Anyway, whatever, the formats
are close.
----------------------------
2)
Clean up the output xml
* Remove the document type declaration.
It seems that Anakia xdocs don't have one.
* Transform some elements:
document/header => document/properties
link => a
----------------------------
3)
Copy all of the *.xml documents from
site-publish/**.xml to incubator/site/xdocs/test2
In my experiment, i copied some test documents
to infrastructure/site/ i.e. the www.a.o/dev/ etc.
which also uses Anakia. They are processed reasonably
well there.
Geir's stylesheet seems to have different handling
of section/title elements.
----------------------------
4)
Run anakia.
cd incubator/site; ant
----------------------------
5)
Fix the links.
This workaround is just saving the internal Forrest
format to disk, so links that use Forrest's linking
system are broken.
----------------------------
6)
Fix some other issues.
In my experiment, the site-author/projects/index.html
table is transformed well, but not with Geir's stylesheet
(perhaps same issue as above). I also tested some
status reports, some transform okay but some do not,
perhaps there are problems with some of the source html.
----------------------------
It is interesting to note that Nicola Ken long ago
moved the Incubator site to use html as the source format
instead of the orginal xml - presumably people had
problems editing xml. That has made it harder to convert
the site back to xml again.
-David
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Re: Experiment : Incubator site done in xdocs...
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
me likes.
On Jan 1, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> I realize that many might have checked-out of this thread about 200
> messages ago... if there's any interest or comment...
>
> (Note, this is just an experiment....)
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 03:39:35 -0500
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>
> Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org, geir@pobox.com
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> References: <NB...@devtech.com>
> <3E...@gbiv.com>
>
>
>
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> On Dec 31, 2005, at 7:34 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> I don't see any point in having this conversation every year.
>> Whoever is willing to fix the content on incubator, please feel
>> free to remove the entire site (except the project status files)
>> and start over with whatever tool you deem suitable. I have four
>> other sites to work on that have higher priority, so chances are good
>> that I won't be deleting the incubator site any time soon.
>
> Out of some sense of insomnia-driven inquisitiveness, I converted a
> good
> bit of the site to xdoc/Anakia. It took about 2.5 hours or so.
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/public/trunk/site/
>
> It's not done. I have to convert all the project stuff - I didn't
> have
> the internal fortitude and wherewithal to face "cwiki" - and there's a
> few other odds and ends.
>
> It became clear that we need to rework some of the content.
>
> If you want to see it :
>
> http://people.apache.org/~geirm/incubator/
>
> Happy New Year
>
> geir
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
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>
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