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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by James Mitchell <jm...@telocity.com> on 2002/05/25 17:22:27 UTC
RE: Vicious Abuse? (an outsiders perspective)
I've been following along with this/these rather ridiculous thread's).
No, I am not a committer, so you can hit the delete key now if you judge
people by their status.
IMHO, giving someone a -1 is one of the rudest things I have seen on this
list in quite a while.
What is most surprising to me, is how you stuck to your ignorant opinion,
even after so many others were willing to vote them in.
I have no plans in the future to become a Tomcat committer, however, I do
have my sights set on the Struts project. I sincerely hope that there are
no committers there who share your view on 'how to keep yourself important
by keeping others out'. I have seen this characteristic before in a few
people, of whom shall remain nameless, but they know who they are.
James Mitchell
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:pier@betaversion.org]
> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:52 AM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Cc: Tomcat Developers List
> Subject: Vicious Abuse?
>
>
> "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au> wrote:
>
> > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather
> > vicious abuse.
>
> Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the
> freedom of those who are involved with the Jakarta project.
>
> All I'm proposing is to accept the idea that we might have coders
> who don't
> care about new projects or PMCs, they just want their code done,
> or that we
> might have important resources out there who might want to get
> involved with
> this project but cannot be tied to one particular code base?
>
> Is it a vicious abuse to ask Sally to become an ASF member ALTHOUGH she
> doesn¹t know how to code in C or Java, or Perl, and doesn't even know what
> CVS is all about?
>
> Is it a vicious abuse to ask to free this community from a concept like
> "meritocracy as the number of lines of code you put into CVS"?
>
> I don't think so, because if this community believes that "freedom" is a
> vicious abuse, this community is racist, racist towards those who can't or
> don't want to have to deal with CVS, no more and no less as one could be
> racist on the color of your skin, or the ideas that populate your mind...
>
> Pier (really, really worried)
>
> --
> [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion
> of different
> sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the
> power of C with
> the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San
> Francisco]
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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RE: Vicious Abuse? (an outsiders perspective)
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Pier +1'ed it.
And whoever got -1'ed (sorry forgot your name), was pretty cool about
it.. (+100 on that response btw..)
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like it either to get -1'ed, although
there were good reasons from Pier's perspective. When he got enough
convincing arguments, he did a +1..
Too bad some other discussions got mixed up with this one specifically,
which clouded the request from Pier for more information about him...
Mvgr,
Martin
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:22, James Mitchell wrote:
> I've been following along with this/these rather ridiculous thread's).
>
> No, I am not a committer, so you can hit the delete key now if you judge
> people by their status.
>
> IMHO, giving someone a -1 is one of the rudest things I have seen on this
> list in quite a while.
> What is most surprising to me, is how you stuck to your ignorant opinion,
> even after so many others were willing to vote them in.
>
> I have no plans in the future to become a Tomcat committer, however, I do
> have my sights set on the Struts project. I sincerely hope that there are
> no committers there who share your view on 'how to keep yourself important
> by keeping others out'. I have seen this characteristic before in a few
> people, of whom shall remain nameless, but they know who they are.
>
> James Mitchell
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:pier@betaversion.org]
> > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:52 AM
> > To: Jakarta General List
> > Cc: Tomcat Developers List
> > Subject: Vicious Abuse?
> >
> >
> > "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au> wrote:
> >
> > > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather
> > > vicious abuse.
> >
> > Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the
> > freedom of those who are involved with the Jakarta project.
> >
> > All I'm proposing is to accept the idea that we might have coders
> > who don't
> > care about new projects or PMCs, they just want their code done,
> > or that we
> > might have important resources out there who might want to get
> > involved with
> > this project but cannot be tied to one particular code base?
> >
> > Is it a vicious abuse to ask Sally to become an ASF member ALTHOUGH she
> > doesn¹t know how to code in C or Java, or Perl, and doesn't even know what
> > CVS is all about?
> >
> > Is it a vicious abuse to ask to free this community from a concept like
> > "meritocracy as the number of lines of code you put into CVS"?
> >
> > I don't think so, because if this community believes that "freedom" is a
> > vicious abuse, this community is racist, racist towards those who can't or
> > don't want to have to deal with CVS, no more and no less as one could be
> > racist on the color of your skin, or the ideas that populate your mind...
> >
> > Pier (really, really worried)
> >
> > --
> > [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion
> > of different
> > sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the
> > power of C with
> > the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San
> > Francisco]
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
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Re: Vicious Abuse? (an outsiders perspective)
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Anthony W. Marino" <an...@AWMObjects.com> wrote:
>> I've been following along with this/these rather ridiculous thread's).
>>
>> No, I am not a committer, so you can hit the delete key now if you judge
>> people by their status.
>>
>> IMHO, giving someone a -1 is one of the rudest things I have seen on this
>> list in quite a while.
>> What is most surprising to me, is how you stuck to your ignorant opinion,
>> even after so many others were willing to vote them in.
>
> Isn't that part of the democracy of this process...call it as you see it???
> As long as you can qualify/backup your statements then I see nothing wrong
> with it. In fact, I appreciate/welcome it as long as it is handled
> professionally and with an open mind such as Pier has demonstrated.
> Apparently Dan, too, has expressed his acceptance of Pier's thoughts!
Thank you, and I would like to close the "vote" issue here, I believe that
my vote had all the rights to be expressed. I don't use SSI, I don't know
what's wrong with it, I don't know absolutely anything about the guy who is
being proposed to fix those problems. Once he gave me his idea on how things
were, and what he wanted to do with, I suddenly changed my vote, before the
end of the ballot (3 days after proposal), and welcomed him open arms...
I don't think that saying "hold on one second, stop this thing for a while
because I don't really get it" and then "ah, ok, cool, I'm fine with it"
means being rude... Sorry if someone perceived it somehow differently.
Pier
--
[Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different
sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with
the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco]
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Vicious Abuse? (an outsiders perspective)
Posted by "Anthony W. Marino" <an...@AWMObjects.com>.
> I've been following along with this/these rather ridiculous thread's).
>
> No, I am not a committer, so you can hit the delete key now if you judge
> people by their status.
>
> IMHO, giving someone a -1 is one of the rudest things I have seen on this
> list in quite a while.
> What is most surprising to me, is how you stuck to your ignorant opinion,
> even after so many others were willing to vote them in.
Isn't that part of the democracy of this process...call it as you see it???
As long as you can qualify/backup your statements then I see nothing wrong
with it. In fact, I appreciate/welcome it as long as it is handled
professionally and with an open mind such as Pier has demonstrated.
Apparently Dan, too, has expressed his acceptance of Pier's thoughts!
Anthony
>
> I have no plans in the future to become a Tomcat committer, however, I do
> have my sights set on the Struts project. I sincerely hope that there are
> no committers there who share your view on 'how to keep yourself important
> by keeping others out'. I have seen this characteristic before in a few
> people, of whom shall remain nameless, but they know who they are.
>
> James Mitchell
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:pier@betaversion.org]
> > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:52 AM
> > To: Jakarta General List
> > Cc: Tomcat Developers List
> > Subject: Vicious Abuse?
> >
> > "Jeff Turner" <je...@socialchange.net.au> wrote:
> > > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather
> > > vicious abuse.
> >
> > Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the
> > freedom of those who are involved with the Jakarta project.
> >
> > All I'm proposing is to accept the idea that we might have coders
> > who don't
> > care about new projects or PMCs, they just want their code done,
> > or that we
> > might have important resources out there who might want to get
> > involved with
> > this project but cannot be tied to one particular code base?
> >
> > Is it a vicious abuse to ask Sally to become an ASF member ALTHOUGH she
> > doesn¹t know how to code in C or Java, or Perl, and doesn't even know
> > what CVS is all about?
> >
> > Is it a vicious abuse to ask to free this community from a concept like
> > "meritocracy as the number of lines of code you put into CVS"?
> >
> > I don't think so, because if this community believes that "freedom" is a
> > vicious abuse, this community is racist, racist towards those who can't
> > or don't want to have to deal with CVS, no more and no less as one could
> > be racist on the color of your skin, or the ideas that populate your
> > mind...
> >
> > Pier (really, really worried)
> >
> > --
> > [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion
> > of different
> > sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the
> > power of C with
> > the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San
> > Francisco]
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Vicious Abuse? (an outsiders perspective)
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"James Mitchell" <jm...@telocity.com> wrote:
> I've been following along with this/these rather ridiculous thread's).
Good...
> No, I am not a committer, so you can hit the delete key now if you judge
> people by their status.
Who said I am? I _am_ the one who is trying to modify the current status quo
so that people with different skills and interests can be part of the
Jakarta community without being tied to a CVS account.
> IMHO, giving someone a -1 is one of the rudest things I have seen on this
> list in quite a while.
Casus belli. I believe that me and Dan cleared this whole thing up and (go
and read), I've even "welcomed" him to the set of committers with CVS
account in the Tomcat project. He has my +1.
> What is most surprising to me, is how you stuck to your ignorant opinion,
> even after so many others were willing to vote them in.
My "ignorant" opinion is based on years of working within this project, is
based on making things for you all work, day by day. I don't usually point
this out, but my contributions to Jakarta are not the few lines of code I
put in Warp, but somewhere else (and those who know, know it). I might not
even be a committer if it wasn't for 2/3 patches a month, but do believe me
when I say that I spend at least 4 hours a day to do stuff for this amazing
bunch of folks.
> I have no plans in the future to become a Tomcat committer, however, I do
> have my sights set on the Struts project. I sincerely hope that there are
> no committers there who share your view on 'how to keep yourself important
> by keeping others out'. I have seen this characteristic before in a few
> people, of whom shall remain nameless, but they know who they are.
"Keep meself important by keeping others out" ??? I welcomed Dan to the
community, and _actually_ what I'm trying to do, is to offer a greater deal
of freedom to this community as a whole, for people who CODE, and for people
who DON'T...
Pier
--
[Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different
sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with
the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco]
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>