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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> on 2011/07/27 20:45:26 UTC
[VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
-1 for same reasons, but I'd be happy to switch to a +1 if the license was
changed back to dual Eclipse/Apache AND it gets to Eclipse.
Dan
On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:42 PM John Casey wrote:
> -1
>
> Definitely not until it's all the way moved to Eclipse...and even then,
> I'm personally reluctant.
>
> I'd much prefer to see Aether's functionality moved back into Maven, and
> streamlined to the point where it's easier to maintain.
>
> On 7/27/11 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> > As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> > releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> > The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> > according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> > thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org
http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend - http://www.talend.com
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Stephane Nicoll <st...@gmail.com>.
-1 for the same reasons.
On Wednesday, July 27, 2011, John Casey <jd...@commonjava.org> wrote:
> -1
>
> Definitely not until it's all the way moved to Eclipse...and even then,
I'm personally reluctant.
>
> I'd much prefer to see Aether's functionality moved back into Maven, and
streamlined to the point where it's easier to maintain.
>
> On 7/27/11 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> John Casey
> Developer, PMC Chair - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org>.
-1 too and same reasons.
--
Olivier
Le 27 juil. 2011 21:05, "John Casey" <jd...@commonjava.org> a écrit :
> -1
>
> Definitely not until it's all the way moved to Eclipse...and even then,
> I'm personally reluctant.
>
> I'd much prefer to see Aether's functionality moved back into Maven, and
> streamlined to the point where it's easier to maintain.
>
> On 7/27/11 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> John Casey
> Developer, PMC Chair - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by John Casey <jd...@commonjava.org>.
-1
Definitely not until it's all the way moved to Eclipse...and even then,
I'm personally reluctant.
I'd much prefer to see Aether's functionality moved back into Maven, and
streamlined to the point where it's easier to maintain.
On 7/27/11 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
--
John Casey
Developer, PMC Chair - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
Jesse, there is no private problem involved. The problem is solely that the Maven project just cannot decide itself what it is going to fix and how it will implement features that way.
LieGrue,
strub
--- On Fri, 7/29/11, Jesse McConnell <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Jesse McConnell <je...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 6:26 PM
> I know I stepped away from maven
> quite some time ago, jetty and other
> things just don't allow the time...but I have followed this
> discussion
> and I'll toss in my two cents.
>
> I would be +1 on this and would come to the defense of
> jason and
> sonatype on this because no matter what you want to argue
> about what
> has and hasn't been done, they have done a ton of the work
> moving
> maven forward over the last few years. maven-artifact
> and a lot of
> its plumbing has been a bane and annoyance for users and
> developers
> with maven alike for years. Aether does the job of
> handling a chunk
> of the heavy lifting and if its at all better then what is
> there then
> its a no brainer imo.
>
> I have known Jason for years and I like to think of him as
> a friend
> and I have always thought that he acted with the end users
> of Maven in
> mind, what he thinks is best for them. I think that
> is one thing you
> can count on, if he is involved with it then the motives,
> corporate or
> otherwise, are to support the end users better. Now
> should that
> differ from what the maven developer community at large
> feels at some
> point in the future then any license currently being
> discussed has
> options available to the maven developers.
>
> Trying to penalize Jason directly or Sonatype as some of
> these
> comments/discussions have done (not necessarily on this
> thread) does
> not benefit the end user. I don't really see the
> point of delaying
> the vote until the eclipse process has completed either,
> better would
> be to cc wayne beaton in on this and ask for early
> acceptance to get
> the ball rolling.
>
> No reason to be antagonistic about all this.
> jesse
>
> --
> jesse mcconnell
> jesse.mcconnell@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:16, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > -0
> >
> > I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work.
> I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems
> fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's
> good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining.
> I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
> >
> > However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual
> licensed:
> > - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate
> source code changes that aren't accepted upstream,
> particularly if goals change over time
> > - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it
> can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
> > - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to
> incorporate it
> >
> > I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
> >
> > FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL
> as a license, I just believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here
> given its history, the early state of community development,
> and with Maven as its primary consumer.
> >
> > - Brett
> >
> > On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> >
> >> As per the approved policy, this message opens a
> vote to allow Maven
> >> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B)
> versions of Aether.
> >> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results
> determined
> >> according to the policy. Discussion on this
> question took place on a
> >> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL
> Aether'.
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Brett Porter
> > brett@apache.org
> > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> > http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Jesse McConnell <je...@gmail.com>.
I know I stepped away from maven quite some time ago, jetty and other
things just don't allow the time...but I have followed this discussion
and I'll toss in my two cents.
I would be +1 on this and would come to the defense of jason and
sonatype on this because no matter what you want to argue about what
has and hasn't been done, they have done a ton of the work moving
maven forward over the last few years. maven-artifact and a lot of
its plumbing has been a bane and annoyance for users and developers
with maven alike for years. Aether does the job of handling a chunk
of the heavy lifting and if its at all better then what is there then
its a no brainer imo.
I have known Jason for years and I like to think of him as a friend
and I have always thought that he acted with the end users of Maven in
mind, what he thinks is best for them. I think that is one thing you
can count on, if he is involved with it then the motives, corporate or
otherwise, are to support the end users better. Now should that
differ from what the maven developer community at large feels at some
point in the future then any license currently being discussed has
options available to the maven developers.
Trying to penalize Jason directly or Sonatype as some of these
comments/discussions have done (not necessarily on this thread) does
not benefit the end user. I don't really see the point of delaying
the vote until the eclipse process has completed either, better would
be to cc wayne beaton in on this and ask for early acceptance to get
the ball rolling.
No reason to be antagonistic about all this.
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
jesse.mcconnell@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:16, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> -0
>
> I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
>
> However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
> - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
> - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
> - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
>
> I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
>
> FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL as a license, I just believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here given its history, the early state of community development, and with Maven as its primary consumer.
>
> - Brett
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
On 31/07/2011, at 8:57 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Ok, I'll pick up from Ralph's discussion.
>
> On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:16 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
>
>> -0
>>
>> I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
>>
>> However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
>> - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
>
> If you can't fork any version of Aether per ASF board guidelines/mandate (I'm only repeating what Ralph said) then what does it matter? And let's say this is not the case, worst case you fork it at Github, make your changes and create a binary. This doesn't hinder you from doing anything if the board changed it's mind on this policy. My preference would certainly be not to fork it but the license affords you that right.
I think what has been said is the same in this regard. We can certainly legally fork it, but it's not a great idea.
What I'm saying is that, as Maven is a project under the Apache License, it would give us more options if Aether was too. Just one example is If there is an insufficient abstraction and we need to make a customisation, we can pull a class or two in to Maven (even temporarily). That's preferable for everyone than having an unofficial fork at github, or having to replace the whole thing, or having to straddle two projects.
I don't want us to be in a situation where we need to exercise the additional rights provided by the license, but that doesn't mean they're not a good thing to have.
>>
>> - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
>
> There's precedent for redistributing EPL at the ASF, and the EPL is commercially friendly. Millions of people use Eclipse, extend Eclipse so I really don't think users have a problem with the EPL.
Yes, that's true. I'm not saying we can't accept it at all. It does however impose more conditions than any previous release of Maven, so given the history and current state of things I feel like it would be better to be able to continue to use it under the Apache License.
There's also plenty of precedent for dual-licensing at Eclipse - JGit and Jetty come to mind.
I don't see what problem has been solved for either project by removing it. If changing it back cools this down and saves us all some time writing mail about hypotheticals, surely that's worth it alone :)
>
>> - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
>>
>
> As I said to Mark things here have changed I prefer in the EPL and what it affords. If I have a choice of organization it's the Eclipse Foundation and the preference is not to dual license. We may not agree about foundations or licenses but our commonality is Maven users. If you believe you can serve them better by forking the code and not joining the Aether project then that's your prerogative. I can't honestly see how that would be, but you're free to do what you like.
>
> I can't see what danger Maven would ever be in with Aether being at Eclipse and EPL. Even less if people here chose to be committers on the project. The current count is 6 people here being committers on Aether. The more people from here over there the more likely your requests for change will be incorporated.
...
>
>
> The chances that upstream requests for change are not accepted are close to zero, especially with a bunch of committers here on Aether. This is virtually no different than Plexus and Modello. Kristian made the last set of changes on a Plexus project and released them. I don't know when the last release of Modello happened but I think that was Hervé.
I believe that to be true, and to remain the case, but what I believe doesn't matter. I think you should also be listening to the fact that both of those people you mentioned voted -1 until the code was released at Eclipse. I don't want to put words in their mouth (so correct me if I'm wrong), but I interpret that as a sign that even with a low barrier, the current process is not optimal.
Going back to your first paragraph above again, I don't want the only options to be "join Aether" or "fork the code". I'd like to fix any Maven bug without having to do those things 99% of the time.
It is time to break the cycle of having to straddle projects. If some folks want to participate in Aether because they find that something fun to work on, that's great. I'm glad there's a low barrier. But nobody should be forced to join just because they want to serve Maven users. If that's the case, it's broken and we need to fix it.
You've claimed that is possible - others here are saying its not. We should deal with more concrete examples there. Whatever the reality is in the mean time we can't make that assumption.
As you've said above, circumstances change. They may change again. Aether is not yet at Eclipse, and even then will take some time to establish a sufficiently independent community, and level of maturity that we would have the same certainty about it as other dependencies. The decision making process is clearly different than if we were deciding whether to incorporate, say, Equinox.
If you were to consider retaining a dual license on the code, then we don't have to rethink our policies, we don't have to get stuck in limbo for weeks or months, and it reduces the risk of anyone making rash short term decisions. It gives us more certainty, and some more options if we need them, while we wait for the landscape to mature.
Whatever the outcome of this or subsequent votes, I still hope you'll reconsider that decision.
- Brett
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com>.
Ok, I'll pick up from Ralph's discussion.
On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:16 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
> -0
>
> I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
>
> However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
> - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
If you can't fork any version of Aether per ASF board guidelines/mandate (I'm only repeating what Ralph said) then what does it matter? And let's say this is not the case, worst case you fork it at Github, make your changes and create a binary. This doesn't hinder you from doing anything if the board changed it's mind on this policy. My preference would certainly be not to fork it but the license affords you that right.
The chances that upstream requests for change are not accepted are close to zero, especially with a bunch of committers here on Aether. This is virtually no different than Plexus and Modello. Kristian made the last set of changes on a Plexus project and released them. I don't know when the last release of Modello happened but I think that was Hervé.
> - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
There's precedent for redistributing EPL at the ASF, and the EPL is commercially friendly. Millions of people use Eclipse, extend Eclipse so I really don't think users have a problem with the EPL.
> - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
>
As I said to Mark things here have changed I prefer in the EPL and what it affords. If I have a choice of organization it's the Eclipse Foundation and the preference is not to dual license. We may not agree about foundations or licenses but our commonality is Maven users. If you believe you can serve them better by forking the code and not joining the Aether project then that's your prerogative. I can't honestly see how that would be, but you're free to do what you like.
I can't see what danger Maven would ever be in with Aether being at Eclipse and EPL. Even less if people here chose to be committers on the project. The current count is 6 people here being committers on Aether. The more people from here over there the more likely your requests for change will be incorporated.
> I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
>
> FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL as a license, I just believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here given its history, the early state of community development, and with Maven as its primary consumer.
>
> - Brett
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------
Three people can keep a secret provided two of them are dead.
-- Unknown
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Arnaud Héritier <ah...@gmail.com>.
+0
I think the license issue is a false problem as it is mixed with an IP issue
and in any case we'll don't get back this code inside Maven land as its
authors don't want.
The issue to control this part of code is legitimate but the only solution
is to rewrite it from scratch (again)
cheers
Arnaud
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> -0
>
> I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if
> there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to
> fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is
> maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
>
> However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
> - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes
> that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
> - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used
> under the terms of the AL 2.0.
> - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
>
> I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
>
> FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL as a license, I just
> believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here given its history, the early state of
> community development, and with Maven as its primary consumer.
>
> - Brett
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
> > As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> > releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> > The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> > according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> > thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
I'm in the same boat. I can't in good conscience vote -1 because I am in no position to take on the task of doing a rewrite. OTOH, given the things people have said they would really like to do I am pretty sure this issue is going to keep coming up. For the same reasons as yours I'm going to have to vote -0.
Ralph
On Jul 29, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Brett Porter wrote:
> -0
>
> I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
>
> However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
> - it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
> - consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
> - it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
>
> I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
>
> FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL as a license, I just believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here given its history, the early state of community development, and with Maven as its primary consumer.
>
> - Brett
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
-0
I don't like it, but I'm not the one doing the work. I'd accept it if there's no better way to get the problems fixed for whoever is working to fix them. I don't think it's good to get stuck on an old version no one is maintaining. I'm happy to discuss ideas for alternatives.
However, I would strongly prefer it to remain dual licensed:
- it gives us more options if we need to incorporate source code changes that aren't accepted upstream, particularly if goals change over time
- consumers know what they are getting from Maven - it can all be used under the terms of the AL 2.0.
- it had the terms of the AL 2.0 when we agreed to incorporate it
I continue to hope that will be reconsidered.
FWIW, I don't have any argument with regard to the EPL as a license, I just believe AL 2.0 is appropriate here given its history, the early state of community development, and with Maven as its primary consumer.
- Brett
On 28/07/2011, at 4:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
A point of process. If this vote goes negative, I'll just throw
another one when the code is live at Eclipse.org.
To Dan's point: I posted an analysis to the effect that the
dual-license has no benefit to us, and no one offered any
counter-argument. Perhaps Dan or someone else would care to offer an
alternative analysis on the DISCUSS thread?
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 4:32 PM, Mark Derricutt wrote:
>
>> As long as 1.12+ of Aether makes it into the 3.0.4 release:
>>
>> +1 NON Binding
>>
>
> What I would consider to be the fix set for 3.0.4 is here:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/
>
> Benjamin and I will continue to support these builds and push back any fixes we can into the ASF.
>
>> Without it Maven quite easily gets seriously broken :(
>>
>> On 28/07/2011, at 6:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>
>>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> A party which is not afraid of letting culture,
> business, and welfare go to ruin completely can
> be omnipotent for a while.
>
> -- Jakob Burckhardt
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com>.
On Jul 27, 2011, at 4:32 PM, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> As long as 1.12+ of Aether makes it into the 3.0.4 release:
>
> +1 NON Binding
>
What I would consider to be the fix set for 3.0.4 is here:
http://people.apache.org/~jvanzyl/
Benjamin and I will continue to support these builds and push back any fixes we can into the ASF.
> Without it Maven quite easily gets seriously broken :(
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 6:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------
A party which is not afraid of letting culture,
business, and welfare go to ruin completely can
be omnipotent for a while.
-- Jakob Burckhardt
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Barrie Treloar <ba...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Manfred Moser <ma...@mosabuam.com> wrote:
> Also .. from what I understand Maven and core plugins depend on a whole
> bunch of other libraries that are not in Maven and/or not in Apache so as
> long as there is license compatibilitys I am sure the Maven devs can work
> with upstream projects like Aether just like others like commons* or
> whatever else.
Repeat this over at the discuss thread (it doesn't belong here).
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Manfred Moser <ma...@mosabuam.com>.
Also .. from what I understand Maven and core plugins depend on a whole
bunch of other libraries that are not in Maven and/or not in Apache so as
long as there is license compatibilitys I am sure the Maven devs can work
with upstream projects like Aether just like others like commons* or
whatever else.
manfred
Maven dependsOn Wed, July 27, 2011 2:33 pm, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> And was just as broken in 2.2.x with the exact same problem from what I've
> been told by Richard who diagnosed and raised the JIRA ticket.
> On 28/07/2011, at 8:46 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>> Remember: all this used to be just a part of maven-core in v2...
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Derricutt <ma...@talios.com>.
And was just as broken in 2.2.x with the exact same problem from what I've been told by Richard who diagnosed and raised the JIRA ticket.
On 28/07/2011, at 8:46 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> Remember: all this used to be just a part of maven-core in v2...
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
> Without it Maven quite easily gets seriously broken :(
Thats exactly the reason. Do you like to have the Apache Maven project depending on a part which you have no control over? Which might change in a way which just doesn't fit for Maven?
Remember: all this used to be just a part of maven-core in v2...
LieGrue,
strub
--- On Wed, 7/27/11, Mark Derricutt <ma...@talios.com> wrote:
> From: Mark Derricutt <ma...@talios.com>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 8:32 PM
> As long as 1.12+ of Aether makes it
> into the 3.0.4 release:
>
> +1 NON Binding
>
> Without it Maven quite easily gets seriously broken :(
>
> On 28/07/2011, at 6:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
> > As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote
> to allow Maven
> > releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B)
> versions of Aether.
> > The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results
> determined
> > according to the policy. Discussion on this question
> took place on a
> > thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Derricutt <ma...@talios.com>.
As long as 1.12+ of Aether makes it into the 3.0.4 release:
+1 NON Binding
Without it Maven quite easily gets seriously broken :(
On 28/07/2011, at 6:45 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
just for the record, -1 too
waiting for Eclipse release, which is coming soon: great!
Regards,
Hervé
Le mercredi 27 juillet 2011, Benson Margulies a écrit :
> As per the approved policy, this message opens a vote to allow Maven
> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of Aether.
> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results determined
> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took place on a
> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
Yea, that sounds good!
Thanks for the update!
LieGrue,
strub
--- On Wed, 7/27/11, Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> wrote:
> From: Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com>
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 7:03 PM
> There are 3 weeks left for community
> review, another week for the creation review, and another
> for the provisioning. So it's 5 weeks tops.
>
> http://eclipse.org/proposals/technology.aether/
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Kristian Rosenvold wrote:
>
> > -1
> >
> > I can wait too.
> >
> > Kristian
> >
> > Den 27. juli 2011 kl. 20:55 skrev Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>:
> >
> >> as long as it's not over at Eclipse.org it's a
> >>
> >> -1
> >>
> >> from me.
> >>
> >> LieGrue,
> >> strub
> >>
> >> --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven
> Releases
> >>> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> >>> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:45 PM
> >>> As per the approved policy, this
> >>> message opens a vote to allow Maven
> >>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category
> B) versions of
> >>> Aether.
> >>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the
> results
> >>> determined
> >>> according to the policy. Discussion on this
> question took
> >>> place on a
> >>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL
> Aether'.
> >>>
> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a
> rational
> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified
> in it.
>
> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com>.
There are 3 weeks left for community review, another week for the creation review, and another for the provisioning. So it's 5 weeks tops.
http://eclipse.org/proposals/technology.aether/
On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Kristian Rosenvold wrote:
> -1
>
> I can wait too.
>
> Kristian
>
> Den 27. juli 2011 kl. 20:55 skrev Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>:
>
>> as long as it's not over at Eclipse.org it's a
>>
>> -1
>>
>> from me.
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>> --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
>>> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:45 PM
>>> As per the approved policy, this
>>> message opens a vote to allow Maven
>>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of
>>> Aether.
>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results
>>> determined
>>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took
>>> place on a
>>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Kristian Rosenvold <kr...@gmail.com>.
-1
I can wait too.
Kristian
Den 27. juli 2011 kl. 20:55 skrev Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>:
> as long as it's not over at Eclipse.org it's a
>
> -1
>
> from me.
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
> --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
>> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:45 PM
>> As per the approved policy, this
>> message opens a vote to allow Maven
>> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of
>> Aether.
>> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results
>> determined
>> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took
>> place on a
>> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
as long as it's not over at Eclipse.org it's a
-1
from me.
LieGrue,
strub
--- On Wed, 7/27/11, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [VOTE] Incorporate EPL Ether in Maven Releases
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 6:45 PM
> As per the approved policy, this
> message opens a vote to allow Maven
> releases to depend on EPL (and thus Category B) versions of
> Aether.
> The vote will be open for 72 hours and the results
> determined
> according to the policy. Discussion on this question took
> place on a
> thread labelled '[DISCUSS] incorporate EPL Aether'.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
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