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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de> on 2003/01/10 11:00:29 UTC
[RT]: Names for pipeline components section
We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
We need a new and simple name for the components section:
<map:components>
<map:pipelines default="caching">
<map:pipeline .../>
...
We can't rename (for compatibility) the other map:pipelines element.
So any suggestions?
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Giacomo Pati wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>
>>We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
>>the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
>>confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
>>
>>I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
>>I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
>>
>>We need a new and simple name for the components section:
>><map:components>
>> <map:pipelines default="caching">
>> <map:pipeline .../>
>> ...
>
>
> What about simply map:pipe[s]?
Yeah, pipe[s] makes great sense!
A pipeline is the whole thing, the "pipe" is simply the 'tube' that
connects the pieces.
Great idea.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Michael Melhem <mi...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 03:23:54PM +0100, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Michael Melhem wrote:
> > I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
> > would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
> > the sitemap.
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103642811405234&w=2
> >
> > However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
> > out.
> >
> Okay, we *could* (don't know right now if it's good) deprecate
> the 2.0.x map:pipelines and map:pipeline and allow for a transition
> period both versions for defining pipelines: map:pipeline and
> map:pipe.
> And the in 2.1 newly introduced components are then map:pipelines
> resp. map:pipeline.
> At least this would be consistent.
>
> What do you think?
Having noun-verb consistency in the sitemap would be nice.
It would be a substantial name change, but I dont see a major problem with it
as long both naming conventions are supported for a while as you suggest. I dont know
what others think though.
Regards,
Michael
>
> Carsten
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Michael Melhem wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:21:36AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>>Michael Melhem wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:48:15AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Michael Melhem wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
>>>>>>would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
>>>>>>the sitemap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
>>>>"somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
>>>>generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
>>>>
>>>>But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive... "Piper"
>>>>could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes generally "pipe" is a noun...but how about "to pipe something through"
>>>in this context it would be a verb ....
>>>
>>
>>... this will result in "pipe" (n) - "pipe" (v) pair ... we made a circle :)
>>
>>So, options for the pair are:
>>
>>pipeline - pipeline (existing)
>>pipe - pipeline
>>pipeline - pipe
>>processor - process
>>piper - pipe
>>...
>>
>>Other suggestions?
>
>
> I was actually thinking:
>
> <components>
> <map:matchers>
> </map:matchers>
>
> <map:pipelines>
> <map:pipeline/>
> </map:pipelines>
> </components>
> ..
>
> <map:pipes>
> <map:pipe>
> <map:act>
> <map:match>
> ...
> </map:pipe>
>
> <map:pipe>
> </map:pipe>
> </map:pipes>
>
> thats my suggestion anyway :)
I'm sorry, but I'm -1 on such a severe back incompatible change for a
simple naming reason. That would be a great way to piss people off (at
least, I would be)
Besides, I already explained why <pipe> as a component and <pipeline> as
a sitemap concept make sense and keep back compatibility.
Sitemap 1.1 should be extending Sitemap 1.0, not provide any
back-incompatible change, otherwise this is really sitemap 2.0 and I
woundn't like that.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Michael Melhem <mi...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:21:36AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Michael Melhem wrote:
>
> >On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:48:15AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Michael Melhem wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
> >>>>would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
> >>>>the sitemap.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
> >>"somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
> >>generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
> >>
> >>But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive... "Piper"
> >>could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Yes generally "pipe" is a noun...but how about "to pipe something through"
> >in this context it would be a verb ....
> >
>
> ... this will result in "pipe" (n) - "pipe" (v) pair ... we made a circle :)
>
> So, options for the pair are:
>
> pipeline - pipeline (existing)
> pipe - pipeline
> pipeline - pipe
> processor - process
> piper - pipe
> ...
>
> Other suggestions?
I was actually thinking:
<components>
<map:matchers>
</map:matchers>
<map:pipelines>
<map:pipeline/>
</map:pipelines>
</components>
..
<map:pipes>
<map:pipe>
<map:act>
<map:match>
...
</map:pipe>
<map:pipe>
</map:pipe>
</map:pipes>
thats my suggestion anyway :)
Regards,
Michael
>
>
> Vadim
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Michael Melhem wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:48:15AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>
>>Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Michael Melhem wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
>>>>would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
>>>>the sitemap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
>>"somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
>>generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
>>
>>But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive... "Piper"
>>could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
>>
>>
>
>Yes generally "pipe" is a noun...but how about "to pipe something through"
>in this context it would be a verb ....
>
... this will result in "pipe" (n) - "pipe" (v) pair ... we made a circle :)
So, options for the pair are:
pipeline - pipeline (existing)
pipe - pipeline
pipeline - pipe
processor - process
piper - pipe
...
Other suggestions?
Vadim
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Michael Melhem <mi...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:48:15AM -0500, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> >Michael Melhem wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
> >>would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
> >>the sitemap.
> >>
>
> ... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
> "somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
> generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
>
> But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive... "Piper"
> could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
Yes generally "pipe" is a noun...but how about "to pipe something through"
in this context it would be a verb .... but i was never very good
at grammer anyway :P.
Regards,
Michael
>
>
> Vadim
>
>
> >>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103642811405234&w=2
> >>
> >>However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
> >>out.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Okay, we *could* (don't know right now if it's good) deprecate
> >the 2.0.x map:pipelines and map:pipeline and allow for a transition
> >period both versions for defining pipelines: map:pipeline and
> >map:pipe.
> >And the in 2.1 newly introduced components are then map:pipelines
> >resp. map:pipeline.
> >At least this would be consistent.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> >Carsten
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Giacomo Pati wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
> >>>"http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to "1.1"
> >>>? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to autoconfigure itself
> >>>depending on the root element namespace and so handle gracefully both
> >>>versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance (i.e. sitemaps and
> >>>subsitemaps in different versions).
> >>
> >>while the sitemap namespace was introduced exactly for this, I think
> >>that we should try to remove possible duplication of effort (and code).
> >>
> >>So, I would agree to name the Cocoon 2.1 sitemap namespace as
> >>
> >> http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.1
> >>
> >>since it is different from the old one (and this definately helps
> >>sitemap editors!) but I would try to make an effort to have the same
> >>code interpret the two of them.
> >>
> >>This also mean that Sitemap 1.1 *extends* Sitemap 1.0, that is:
> >>
> >> - all tags included in sitemap 1.0 keep the same meaning in 1.1
> >> - only new elements and attributes are added to the sitemap 1.1
> >
> >
> > How would you deprecate/eliminate elements if you inherit them all the
> > way to higher versions?
>
> By moving to a 2.0 version of the namespace, to indicate back
> incompatibility. Versioning should be kept consistent, expecially on
> namespaces: same number means perfect compatibility, same major number
> means back compatibility (if I roll forward, nothing needs to be
> changed), different major means no compatibility (in a semantic sense).
>
> I believe that we didn't remove anything from 1.0 to 1.1, did we?
No, not IIRC.
> In that case, I'd be in favor of keeping them there and log deprecation
> warning in the logs.
Am not sure about deprecated elements/attribute. I think we might have
some to cleanup the syntax (map:redirect-to jumps in mind).
Giacomo
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Giacomo Pati wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>
>>Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
>>>"http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to "1.1"
>>>? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to autoconfigure itself
>>>depending on the root element namespace and so handle gracefully both
>>>versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance (i.e. sitemaps and
>>>subsitemaps in different versions).
>>
>>while the sitemap namespace was introduced exactly for this, I think
>>that we should try to remove possible duplication of effort (and code).
>>
>>So, I would agree to name the Cocoon 2.1 sitemap namespace as
>>
>> http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.1
>>
>>since it is different from the old one (and this definately helps
>>sitemap editors!) but I would try to make an effort to have the same
>>code interpret the two of them.
>>
>>This also mean that Sitemap 1.1 *extends* Sitemap 1.0, that is:
>>
>> - all tags included in sitemap 1.0 keep the same meaning in 1.1
>> - only new elements and attributes are added to the sitemap 1.1
>
>
> How would you deprecate/eliminate elements if you inherit them all the
> way to higher versions?
By moving to a 2.0 version of the namespace, to indicate back
incompatibility. Versioning should be kept consistent, expecially on
namespaces: same number means perfect compatibility, same major number
means back compatibility (if I roll forward, nothing needs to be
changed), different major means no compatibility (in a semantic sense).
I believe that we didn't remove anything from 1.0 to 1.1, did we?
In that case, I'd be in favor of keeping them there and log deprecation
warning in the logs.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
> > The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
> > "http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to "1.1"
> > ? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to autoconfigure itself
> > depending on the root element namespace and so handle gracefully both
> > versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance (i.e. sitemaps and
> > subsitemaps in different versions).
>
> while the sitemap namespace was introduced exactly for this, I think
> that we should try to remove possible duplication of effort (and code).
>
> So, I would agree to name the Cocoon 2.1 sitemap namespace as
>
> http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.1
>
> since it is different from the old one (and this definately helps
> sitemap editors!) but I would try to make an effort to have the same
> code interpret the two of them.
>
> This also mean that Sitemap 1.1 *extends* Sitemap 1.0, that is:
>
> - all tags included in sitemap 1.0 keep the same meaning in 1.1
> - only new elements and attributes are added to the sitemap 1.1
How would you deprecate/eliminate elements if you inherit them all the
way to higher versions?
Giacomo
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>> The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
>> "http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to
>> "1.1" ? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to
>> autoconfigure itself depending on the root element namespace and so
>> handle gracefully both versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance
>> (i.e. sitemaps and subsitemaps in different versions).
>
>
> while the sitemap namespace was introduced exactly for this, I think
> that we should try to remove possible duplication of effort (and code).
There will be absolutely no duplication of effort, as this will only be
a matter of adding a few lines in cocoon.xconf or
treeprocessor-builtins.xml to map different names on a single class.
> So, I would agree to name the Cocoon 2.1 sitemap namespace as
>
> http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.1
>
> since it is different from the old one (and this definately helps
> sitemap editors!) but I would try to make an effort to have the same
> code interpret the two of them.
>
> This also mean that Sitemap 1.1 *extends* Sitemap 1.0, that is:
>
> - all tags included in sitemap 1.0 keep the same meaning in 1.1
> - only new elements and attributes are added to the sitemap 1.1
>
> Also, as I wrote previously, I think we are perfectly consistent with
> the *design ideas* that stay underneath the sitemap and we don't need
> to change anything that is currently included in 1.0 (we spent so much
> time figuring out those tag names!!!)
>
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
> "http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to "1.1"
> ? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to autoconfigure itself
> depending on the root element namespace and so handle gracefully both
> versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance (i.e. sitemaps and
> subsitemaps in different versions).
while the sitemap namespace was introduced exactly for this, I think
that we should try to remove possible duplication of effort (and code).
So, I would agree to name the Cocoon 2.1 sitemap namespace as
http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.1
since it is different from the old one (and this definately helps
sitemap editors!) but I would try to make an effort to have the same
code interpret the two of them.
This also mean that Sitemap 1.1 *extends* Sitemap 1.0, that is:
- all tags included in sitemap 1.0 keep the same meaning in 1.1
- only new elements and attributes are added to the sitemap 1.1
Also, as I wrote previously, I think we are perfectly consistent with
the *design ideas* that stay underneath the sitemap and we don't need to
change anything that is currently included in 1.0 (we spent so much time
figuring out those tag names!!!)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> Michael Melhem wrote:
>>
>>> I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because
>>> itwould confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in the
>>> sitemap.
>>
> ... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
> "somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
> generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
>
> But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive...
> "Piper" could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
I also don't like much "pipe" for the same reasons.
What about "process" ? Remember that the sitemap defines how a request
is processed (pipeline only a part of it : there's also the flow) and is
executed upon a call to "Processor.process()" !
>>> However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
>>> out.
>>
>> Okay, we *could* (don't know right now if it's good) deprecate the
>> 2.0.x map:pipelines and map:pipeline and allow for a transition
>> period both versions for defining pipelines: map:pipeline and
>> map:pipe. And the in 2.1 newly introduced components are then
>> map:pipelines resp. map:pipeline.
>> At least this would be consistent.
>
The sitemap namespace contains a version number :
"http://apache.org/cocoon/sitemap/1.0", so what about upgrading to "1.1"
? It would be fairly easy for the TreeProcessor to autoconfigure itself
depending on the root element namespace and so handle gracefully both
versions, even inside a single Cocoon instance (i.e. sitemaps and
subsitemaps in different versions).
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>Michael Melhem wrote:
>
>
>>I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
>>would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
>>the sitemap.
>>
... the only problem being that also pipe is a noun, it does not mean
"somebody who makes pipelines". Currently, generator is "somebody who
generates", transformer is "somebody who transforms", etc.
But "pipe" noun does not describe an actor, "pipe" is passive... "Piper"
could be better but it means "somebody who plays pipe"...
Vadim
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103642811405234&w=2
>>
>>However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
>>out.
>>
>>
>>
>Okay, we *could* (don't know right now if it's good) deprecate
>the 2.0.x map:pipelines and map:pipeline and allow for a transition
>period both versions for defining pipelines: map:pipeline and
>map:pipe.
>And the in 2.1 newly introduced components are then map:pipelines
>resp. map:pipeline.
>At least this would be consistent.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Carsten
>
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RE: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Michael Melhem wrote:
> I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
> would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in
> the sitemap.
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103642811405234&w=2
>
> However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
> out.
>
Okay, we *could* (don't know right now if it's good) deprecate
the 2.0.x map:pipelines and map:pipeline and allow for a transition
period both versions for defining pipelines: map:pipeline and
map:pipe.
And the in 2.1 newly introduced components are then map:pipelines
resp. map:pipeline.
At least this would be consistent.
What do you think?
Carsten
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Michael Melhem <mi...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:59:17PM +0100, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> >>>What about simply map:pipe[s]?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
> >
> >
> >I'd prefer to keep the current naming instead of that one.
> >
> >For consistency it would be map:pipeline in the components, and map:pipe
> >in the "beefy" part.
> >
> > pipeline generator transformer ...
> > pipe generate transform ...
> >
> >Inverting it is not so cool IMHO. I haven't yet seen users complain it's
> >not understandable and I've never had that problem myself.
>
> I aggree - but that would not be backwards compatible.... :-/
I recall suggesting map:pipe in an earlier discussion because it
would confirm to "noun-verb" convention that already exists in the sitemap.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103642811405234&w=2
However, there the issue of "backwards compatibly" as Torsten points
out.
Regards,
Michael Melhem
> --
> Torsten
>
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
>>> What about simply map:pipe[s]?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
>
>
> I'd prefer to keep the current naming instead of that one.
>
> For consistency it would be map:pipeline in the components, and map:pipe
> in the "beefy" part.
>
> pipeline generator transformer ...
> pipe generate transform ...
>
> Inverting it is not so cool IMHO. I haven't yet seen users complain it's
> not understandable and I've never had that problem myself.
I aggree - but that would not be backwards compatible.... :-/
--
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Michael Melhem wrote:
> Actually, I too think Stefeno has a valid point here.
^^^^^^^
cool, first time I see my name misplelled like that. ;-)
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Michael Melhem <mi...@fztig938.bank.dresdner.net>.
On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 11:01:04AM +0100, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >
> > >>map:generator Generator.java generate
> > >>map:transformer Transformer.java transform
> > >>... ... ...
> > >>map:pipe Pipeline.java pipeline
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this a real problem? I've never thought about such relationship.
> > > Anybody else?
> >
> > Well, if somebody thinks it is a problem we can change the java
> > classname with much less user pain.
> >
> The classes and interfaces are new for 2.1, so changing them is absolutely
> painless.
>
> Having a weekend for thinking about the naming problem, I think Stefano
> is right, that map:pipe (= a verb) is not a good choice to use for the
> pipelines section (= the section where pipelines are defined).
Actually, I too think Stefeno has a valid point here. So no objection
from me. :)
Michael
>
> So, I agree (now) that we should rename the components section from
> map:pipeline to map:pipe.
>
> Anyone against this? If not I can rename them tomorrow.
>
> Carsten
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
[...]
> The classes and interfaces are new for 2.1, so changing them is absolutely
> painless.
>
> Having a weekend for thinking about the naming problem, I think Stefano
> is right, that map:pipe (= a verb) is not a good choice to use for the
> pipelines section (= the section where pipelines are defined).
>
> So, I agree (now) that we should rename the components section from
> map:pipeline to map:pipe.
>
> Anyone against this? If not I can rename them tomorrow.
Go ahead. Ok from here.
--
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Renamed!
>
> The pipeline components are now in the map:pipes/map:pipe section. I'm not
> sure if I really changed every sitemap/documentation etc. If you find
> any old usage please change it.
Very nice. Thank you.
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RE: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Renamed!
The pipeline components are now in the map:pipes/map:pipe section. I'm not
sure if I really changed every sitemap/documentation etc. If you find
any old usage please change it.
Thanks
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> Having a weekend for thinking about the naming problem, I think Stefano
> is right, that map:pipe (= a verb) is not a good choice to use for the
> pipelines section (= the section where pipelines are defined).
>
> So, I agree (now) that we should rename the components section from
> map:pipeline to map:pipe.
>
> Anyone against this? If not I can rename them tomorrow.
>
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RE: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> >>map:generator Generator.java generate
> >>map:transformer Transformer.java transform
> >>... ... ...
> >>map:pipe Pipeline.java pipeline
> >
> >
> > Is this a real problem? I've never thought about such relationship.
> > Anybody else?
>
> Well, if somebody thinks it is a problem we can change the java
> classname with much less user pain.
>
The classes and interfaces are new for 2.1, so changing them is absolutely
painless.
Having a weekend for thinking about the naming problem, I think Stefano
is right, that map:pipe (= a verb) is not a good choice to use for the
pipelines section (= the section where pipelines are defined).
So, I agree (now) that we should rename the components section from
map:pipeline to map:pipe.
Anyone against this? If not I can rename them tomorrow.
Carsten
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Giacomo Pati wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
>>Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>>>Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>>>[...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
>>>>>describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
>>>>>pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, I like
>>>>>
>>>>> <components>
>>>>> <pipes>
>>>>> <pipe>
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>> <pipelines>
>>>>> <pipeline>
>>>>> <match>
>>>>> <generate>
>>>>>
>>>>Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
>>>>
>>>
>>>what do you mean?
>>
>>map:generator Generator.java generate
>>map:transformer Transformer.java transform
>>... ... ...
>>map:pipe Pipeline.java pipeline
>
>
> Is this a real problem? I've never thought about such relationship.
> Anybody else?
Well, if somebody thinks it is a problem we can change the java
classname with much less user pain.
Anyway, I personally don't care about those java mappings anyway since I
don't picture people actually implementing those pipes themselves.
--
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
> >>> describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
> >>> pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
> >>>
> >>> So, I like
> >>>
> >>> <components>
> >>> <pipes>
> >>> <pipe>
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>> <pipelines>
> >>> <pipeline>
> >>> <match>
> >>> <generate>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
> >>
> >
> > what do you mean?
>
> map:generator Generator.java generate
> map:transformer Transformer.java transform
> ... ... ...
> map:pipe Pipeline.java pipeline
Is this a real problem? I've never thought about such relationship.
Anybody else?
Giacomo
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>
>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>> The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
>>> describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
>>> pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
>>>
>>> So, I like
>>>
>>> <components>
>>> <pipes>
>>> <pipe>
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> <pipelines>
>>> <pipeline>
>>> <match>
>>> <generate>
>>>
>>
>> Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
>>
>
> what do you mean?
map:generator Generator.java generate
map:transformer Transformer.java transform
... ... ...
map:pipe Pipeline.java pipeline
--
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> [...]
>
>> The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
>> describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
>> pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
>>
>> So, I like
>>
>> <components>
>> <pipes>
>> <pipe>
>>
>> and
>>
>> <pipelines>
>> <pipeline>
>> <match>
>> <generate>
>>
>
> Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
>
what do you mean?
--
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> [...]
>
> > The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
> > describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
> > pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
> >
> > So, I like
> >
> > <components>
> > <pipes>
> > <pipe>
> >
> > and
> >
> > <pipelines>
> > <pipeline>
> > <match>
> > <generate>
> >
>
> Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
What mappings?
Giacomo
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
[...]
> The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
> describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
> pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
>
> So, I like
>
> <components>
> <pipes>
> <pipe>
>
> and
>
> <pipelines>
> <pipeline>
> <match>
> <generate>
>
Too bad this breaks our mapping between java names and sitemap names.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> >
> > Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> >
> >> Giacomo Pati wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
> >>>> the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
> >>>> confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
> >>>> I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
> >>>>
> >>>> We need a new and simple name for the components section:
> >>>> <map:components>
> >>>> <map:pipelines default="caching">
> >>>> <map:pipeline .../>
> >>>> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What about simply map:pipe[s]?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
> >
> >
> > I'd prefer to keep the current naming instead of that one.
> >
> > For consistency it would be map:pipeline in the components, and map:pipe
> > in the "beefy" part.
> >
> > pipeline generator transformer ...
> > pipe generate transform ...
> >
> > Inverting it is not so cool IMHO. I haven't yet seen users complain it's
> > not understandable and I've never had that problem myself.
>
> Careful. "pipe" is not only a verb, but also a noun. A believe that
> Giacomo was using it in that sense.
>
> Also, we made a seriuos effort to never use the same sitemap tag for
> meaning different things depending on its context (say, complete xpath
> compared to simple tag matching). This is a good pattern to follow, and
> might help a lot implementing sitemap editors in the future.
>
> Also, as far as using
>
> <pipe>
> <match>
> <generate>
>
> where "pipe" is a verb, I would be against this because the pipeline are
> *not* piping themselves and are not active. They support the skeleton
> where the events flow.
>
> The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
> describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
> pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
>
> So, I like
>
> <components>
> <pipes>
> <pipe>
>
> and
>
> <pipelines>
> <pipeline>
> <match>
> <generate>
This was exactly what I had in mind. Thanks, Stefano, explaining it so
clearly.
Giacomo
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> Giacomo Pati wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
>>>> the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
>>>> confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
>>>>
>>>> I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
>>>> I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
>>>>
>>>> We need a new and simple name for the components section:
>>>> <map:components>
>>>> <map:pipelines default="caching">
>>>> <map:pipeline .../>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> What about simply map:pipe[s]?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
>
>
> I'd prefer to keep the current naming instead of that one.
>
> For consistency it would be map:pipeline in the components, and map:pipe
> in the "beefy" part.
>
> pipeline generator transformer ...
> pipe generate transform ...
>
> Inverting it is not so cool IMHO. I haven't yet seen users complain it's
> not understandable and I've never had that problem myself.
Careful. "pipe" is not only a verb, but also a noun. A believe that
Giacomo was using it in that sense.
Also, we made a seriuos effort to never use the same sitemap tag for
meaning different things depending on its context (say, complete xpath
compared to simple tag matching). This is a good pattern to follow, and
might help a lot implementing sitemap editors in the future.
Also, as far as using
<pipe>
<match>
<generate>
where "pipe" is a verb, I would be against this because the pipeline are
*not* piping themselves and are not active. They support the skeleton
where the events flow.
The pipelines are statically built and must remain so. Having a verb
describing the act of piping might not reflect the concept that
pipelines are static assemblations of operational constructs.
So, I like
<components>
<pipes>
<pipe>
and
<pipelines>
<pipeline>
<match>
<generate>
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Giacomo Pati wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
>>>the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
>>>confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
>>>
>>>I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
>>>I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
>>>
>>>We need a new and simple name for the components section:
>>><map:components>
>>> <map:pipelines default="caching">
>>> <map:pipeline .../>
>>> ...
>>
>>What about simply map:pipe[s]?
>>
>
> Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
I'd prefer to keep the current naming instead of that one.
For consistency it would be map:pipeline in the components, and map:pipe
in the "beefy" part.
pipeline generator transformer ...
pipe generate transform ...
Inverting it is not so cool IMHO. I haven't yet seen users complain it's
not understandable and I've never had that problem myself.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Giacomo Pati wrote:
>
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> > We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
> > the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
> > confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
> >
> > I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
> > I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
> >
> > We need a new and simple name for the components section:
> > <map:components>
> > <map:pipelines default="caching">
> > <map:pipeline .../>
> > ...
>
> What about simply map:pipe[s]?
>
Yes, why not - if noone comes up with a better name, we will use that.
Thanks
Carsten
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Re: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Steven Punte <st...@yahoo.com>.
How about a more general name that works for
non-liner structures, such as
<assembly>
or
<topology>
or
<graph>
Steve
Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org> wrote:On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
> the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
> confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
>
> I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
> I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
>
> We need a new and simple name for the components section:
>
>
>
> ...
What about simply map:pipe[s]?
Giacomo
>
> We can't rename (for compatibility) the other map:pipelines element.
>
> So any suggestions?
>
> Carsten
>
> Carsten Ziegeler
> Open Source Group, S&N AG
>
>
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Re: [RT]: Names for pipeline components section
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> We currently have two sections named map:pipelines and map:pipeline in
> the sitemap (2.1). As we all know from experience this is absolutely
> confusing and wasn't a good naming idea (my fault).
>
> I think Sylvain and Michael have already suggested new names, but
> I can't remember them and I'm too lazy to search the mail archives :)
>
> We need a new and simple name for the components section:
> <map:components>
> <map:pipelines default="caching">
> <map:pipeline .../>
> ...
What about simply map:pipe[s]?
Giacomo
>
> We can't rename (for compatibility) the other map:pipelines element.
>
> So any suggestions?
>
> Carsten
>
> Carsten Ziegeler
> Open Source Group, S&N AG
>
>
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