Automatically downloading playerglobal, airglobal, Pixel Bender, Debug Player -- What constitutes explicitly choosing in non-default build option in a build script?

[Jeff Conrad <je...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

My questions are at the end.  In order to build the Flex SDK, a user
currently has to manually download/install and then set up
environmental variables for where we have the playerglobal.swc,
airglobal.swc, Pixel Bender Toolkit, and optionally the Standalone
Debug Flash Player and the Adobe Extension Manager.

In the interest of making it easier for people to build the sdk, which
should make it easier for people to contribute, I wanted to re-assess
what our options are for downloading Pixel Bender, the Standalone
Debug Flash Player, playerglobal.swc, and airglobal.swc.  I'd like to
have as close to a repeatable and automated one-button build as we
possibly can.

I'm pretty sure all of these items above are considered Category X /
Prohibited works licenses because they're binary based, and as such
they're considered prohibited works.  The 3rd party licensing policy
says this about build scripts with prohibited works
(http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html#options-build):

Build Scripts
YOU MUST NOT distribute build scripts or documentation within an
Apache product with the purpose of causing the default/standard build
of an Apache product to include any part of a prohibited work.

YOU MAY include within an Apache product a documented, non-default,
build option to allow users to explicitly insert a prohibited work
into a single binary package with the Apache product code.

YOU MAY ALSO include within an Apache product a documented,
non-default, build option to allow users to explicitly choose to
validate, retrieve, or configure any system requirement for an Apache
product, provided that such option is not likely to be confused with
the standard product build and that any resulting retrieval of a
prohibited work is accompanied by a clear identification of its
associated license.

On May 2, Bertrand said that we could make downloading playerglobal an
optional build step.  http://markmail.org/message/b3miai345mw74jxa

Having run the ant script, I'm inferring a non-default build option is
one of the prompts.  Currently the things automatically downloaded are
MPL or Adobe licensed.

Question(s):

If we add prompts to download these items for the user, can we have
the prompt itself default to a 'yes' for a category X licensed item
like player/air global, Pixel Bender, or the Standalone Debug Flash
Player or does that violate the part about allowing the user to
explicitly choose?

Also, was the BlazeDS support defaulted to 'no' because it's optional
and is currently a huge download or was the reasoning based on the
license?

Jeff

Re: Automatically downloading playerglobal, airglobal, Pixel Bender, Debug Player -- What constitutes explicitly choosing in non-default build option in a build script?

[Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>]

On 8/15/12 10:54 PM, "Jeff Conrad" <je...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> On 8/15/12 2:55 PM, "Jeff Conrad" <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Question(s):
>>> 
>>> If we add prompts to download these items for the user, can we have
>>> the prompt itself default to a 'yes' for a category X licensed item
>>> like player/air global, Pixel Bender, or the Standalone Debug Flash
>>> Player or does that violate the part about allowing the user to
>>> explicitly choose?
>> After Bertrand's email there was another thread where we got a "ruling" that
>> playerglobal.swc was a "prerequisite".  That is because it isn't an option.
>> Nothing will compile without it.  It represents the platform, and none of
>> its binary information goes into the SWF.
> 
> I wonder what the difference between a "prerequisite" and a "system
> requirement" is (if any)?
> 
> Per the 3rd party licensing page:
> 
> YOU MAY ALSO include within an Apache product a documented,
> non-default, build option to allow users to explicitly choose to
> validate, retrieve, or configure any system requirement for an Apache
> product, provided that such option is not likely to be confused with
> the standard product build and that any resulting retrieval of a
> prohibited work is accompanied by a clear identification of its
> associated license.
> 
> I certainly don't want to do anything that could get us in legal
> trouble, but if we're allowed to download this to make everyone's life
> a bit easier, let's do it.
> 
> Not to re-beat a dead horse, but I'm looking over things and I'm
> wondering if in the rush to get 4.8.0 ready to go if it's possible
> that we may have misinterpreted what Bertrand said?
> 
I think the key words are "non-default" and "option".  Playerglobal isn't an
option.

Another way we could make things simpler is to have a smarter installer that
searches for the prerequisite downloads and configures everything for you.
But I think you will still have to download player and AIR from Adobe.

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

Re: Automatically downloading playerglobal, airglobal, Pixel Bender, Debug Player -- What constitutes explicitly choosing in non-default build option in a build script?

[Jeff Conrad <je...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> On 8/15/12 2:55 PM, "Jeff Conrad" <je...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Question(s):
>>
>> If we add prompts to download these items for the user, can we have
>> the prompt itself default to a 'yes' for a category X licensed item
>> like player/air global, Pixel Bender, or the Standalone Debug Flash
>> Player or does that violate the part about allowing the user to
>> explicitly choose?
> After Bertrand's email there was another thread where we got a "ruling" that
> playerglobal.swc was a "prerequisite".  That is because it isn't an option.
> Nothing will compile without it.  It represents the platform, and none of
> its binary information goes into the SWF.

I wonder what the difference between a "prerequisite" and a "system
requirement" is (if any)?

Per the 3rd party licensing page:

YOU MAY ALSO include within an Apache product a documented,
non-default, build option to allow users to explicitly choose to
validate, retrieve, or configure any system requirement for an Apache
product, provided that such option is not likely to be confused with
the standard product build and that any resulting retrieval of a
prohibited work is accompanied by a clear identification of its
associated license.

I certainly don't want to do anything that could get us in legal
trouble, but if we're allowed to download this to make everyone's life
a bit easier, let's do it.

Not to re-beat a dead horse, but I'm looking over things and I'm
wondering if in the rush to get 4.8.0 ready to go if it's possible
that we may have misinterpreted what Bertrand said?

Here's a link to the original JIRA issue:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX-33089
Here's a link to the e-mail mentioning the clarifications in that
issue which was FLEX-53 but is now FLEX-33089 making it allowed to be
a build step: http://markmail.org/message/b3miai345mw74jxa

I hope that's the case as it would probably mean that at the least we
can automatically download playerglobal and airglobal as part of the
build process and make it that much easier for someone to build their
own SDK and contribute their changes back.

Jeff

>
> So, there is no way to auto-download that within Apache rules AFAICT.  We
> could go through the process of becoming making Apache an Adobe
> re-distributor, but I'm not sure that's worth the effort.  It also possible
> that Spoon or some other entity could become and Adobe redistributor and
> distribute its own packages that look much more like what Adobe SDKs do
> today.
>>
>> Also, was the BlazeDS support defaulted to 'no' because it's optional
>> and is currently a huge download or was the reasoning based on the
>> license?
>>
>> Jeff
> BlazeDS is optional.  You can write apps without it.  We had to make it
> optional because it is under MPL at this time.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>

Re: Automatically downloading playerglobal, airglobal, Pixel Bender, Debug Player -- What constitutes explicitly choosing in non-default build option in a build script?

[Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>]

On 8/15/12 2:55 PM, "Jeff Conrad" <je...@gmail.com> wrote:


> Question(s):
> 
> If we add prompts to download these items for the user, can we have
> the prompt itself default to a 'yes' for a category X licensed item
> like player/air global, Pixel Bender, or the Standalone Debug Flash
> Player or does that violate the part about allowing the user to
> explicitly choose?
After Bertrand's email there was another thread where we got a "ruling" that
playerglobal.swc was a "prerequisite".  That is because it isn't an option.
Nothing will compile without it.  It represents the platform, and none of
its binary information goes into the SWF.

So, there is no way to auto-download that within Apache rules AFAICT.  We
could go through the process of becoming making Apache an Adobe
re-distributor, but I'm not sure that's worth the effort.  It also possible
that Spoon or some other entity could become and Adobe redistributor and
distribute its own packages that look much more like what Adobe SDKs do
today.
> 
> Also, was the BlazeDS support defaulted to 'no' because it's optional
> and is currently a huge download or was the reasoning based on the
> license?
> 
> Jeff
BlazeDS is optional.  You can write apps without it.  We had to make it
optional because it is under MPL at this time.

-- 
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui