[snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

1.- Have a planned date?

2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)

3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
box without a graphics environment.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

I can help testing, since I don't have the skills in C/C++.

Usually, what I do on linux boxes is:

1.- Minimal O.S. install, text-only. Include XOrg shared libraries. No
need to start any XOrg related service.
2.- Install my IBM JRE v1.4.2
3.- Start my java server process (servlet engine) with this system property:

-Djava.awt.headless=true

That's it, my servlet can generate graphics in PNG really fast,
without a graphics environment.

Regards,
Martin




On 10/25/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> what this means?  A spec maybe?
>
> Also.. Martin... want to help?  :)
>
> geir
>
>
> Oleg Khaschansky wrote:
> >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> >> > box without a graphics environment.
> >
> > Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
> > there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
> > know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
> > still have other things in the todo list.
> >
> > On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Martin Cordova wrote:
> >> > 1.- Have a planned date?
> >>
> >> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
> >>
> >> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> >> > box without a graphics environment.
> >>
> >> I dunno :)
> >>
> >> geir
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Martin
> >>
> >
>


-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

> Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> mode? If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?

No. It is not so.

On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> mode? If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
> On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> > > what this means?  A spec maybe?
> >
> > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/awt/AWTChanges.html#headless
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > > As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> > > what this means?  A spec maybe?
> > >
> > > Also.. Martin... want to help?  :)
> > >
> > > geir
> > >
> > >
> > > Oleg Khaschansky wrote:
> > > >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > > >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > > >> > box without a graphics environment.
> > > >
> > > > Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
> > > > there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
> > > > know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
> > > > still have other things in the todo list.
> > > >
> > > > On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > >> > 1.- Have a planned date?
> > > >>
> > > >> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
> > > >>
> > > >> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > > >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > > >> > box without a graphics environment.
> > > >>
> > > >> I dunno :)
> > > >>
> > > >> geir
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Regards,
> > > >> > Martin
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> open source, easy and powerful
> http://www.martincordova.com
>

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

Theoretically, they should be loaded on demand, i.e. when dlopen is
called. If they dlopen them at initialization step then - yes. But
loading library and then not using it is not very smart behavior, IMO.

On 10/25/06, Gregory Shimansky <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Martin Cordova wrote:
> >>> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> >
> > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> > just the libs.
>
> Could it be that native code is simply linked to these libraries so
> native awt code libraries just don't load if you don't have X libraries
> in the system?
>
> --
> Gregory Shimansky, Intel Middleware Products Division
>
>

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support

[Gregory Shimansky <gs...@gmail.com>]

Martin Cordova wrote:
>>> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> 
> How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> just the libs.

Could it be that native code is simply linked to these libraries so 
native awt code libraries just don't load if you don't have X libraries 
in the system?

-- 
Gregory Shimansky, Intel Middleware Products Division

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

Yes, I missed this. I think it is possible to use FreeType library for
the font rendering both on linux and on windows. At present we are
using xft on linux, but I think it is possible to refactor this to the
"pure freetype" code. It may take less efforts than implementing font
rasterizer from the scratch.

Another issue is that we must have fonts themselves for this. Can we
distribute system fonts (e.g. from linux) with harmony? It is a legal
issue, I am not an expert in this area at all.

On 10/26/06, Sergey Soldatov <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a number of issues with headless support. And the serious one is
> font support. Our implementation uses system fonts, so in headless
> environment it could not initialize any font. RI uses own font rasterizer,
> so it doesn't have such problems.
>
> On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am just checking a dependency. Don't think so.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky < oleg.v.khaschansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Could it be treated as a reverse engineering? I don't know :)
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova < martin.cordova@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't know how it works, but what I can do is try to use headless
> > > > without XOrg shared libs installed, and then take note of the missing
> > > > .so modules the IBM JVM complains about).
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe
> > some
> > > > > other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
> > > > > its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay)
> > to
> > > > > get some data, fails and uses defaults?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
> > > > > determine the requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > > > > > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have
> > headless
> > > > > > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X
> > server,
> > > > > > just the libs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Martin Cordova
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky < oleg.v.khaschansky@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general
> > description at
> > > > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > > > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what
> > cannot
> > > > > > > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods
> > which
> > > > > > > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that
> > are declared
> > > > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test
> > right
> > > > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before
> > the GUI
> > > > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > > > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > > > > > > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > > > > > > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And,
> > probably,
> > > > > > > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt
> > code
> > > > > > > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling
> > into
> > > > > > > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to
> > exclude all
> > > > > > > xlib calls, right?).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that
> > don't need
> > > > > > > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work
> > in headless
> > > > > > > > > mode?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general
> > description at
> > > > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that
> > are declared
> > > > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test
> > right
> > > > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before
> > the GUI
> > > > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and
> > other code
> > > > > > > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim Ellison ( t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > > > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > > > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > open source, easy and powerful
> > http://www.martincordova.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sergey Soldatov
>
>

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Sergey Soldatov <se...@gmail.com>]

There is a number of issues with headless support. And the serious one is
font support. Our implementation uses system fonts, so in headless
environment it could not initialize any font. RI uses own font rasterizer,
so it doesn't have such problems.

On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am just checking a dependency. Don't think so.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
> On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky < oleg.v.khaschansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Could it be treated as a reverse engineering? I don't know :)
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova < martin.cordova@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I don't know how it works, but what I can do is try to use headless
> > > without XOrg shared libs installed, and then take note of the missing
> > > .so modules the IBM JVM complains about).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe
> some
> > > > other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
> > > > its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay)
> to
> > > > get some data, fails and uses defaults?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
> > > > determine the requirements.
> > > >
> > > > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> > > > >
> > > > > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > > > > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have
> headless
> > > > > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X
> server,
> > > > > just the libs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Martin Cordova
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky < oleg.v.khaschansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general
> description at
> > > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what
> cannot
> > > > > > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods
> which
> > > > > > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that
> are declared
> > > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test
> right
> > > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before
> the GUI
> > > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > > > > > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > > > > > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And,
> probably,
> > > > > > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt
> code
> > > > > > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling
> into
> > > > > > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to
> exclude all
> > > > > > xlib calls, right?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > > > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that
> don't need
> > > > > > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work
> in headless
> > > > > > > > mode?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general
> description at
> > > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that
> are declared
> > > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test
> right
> > > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before
> the GUI
> > > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and
> other code
> > > > > > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tim Ellison ( t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> open source, easy and powerful
> http://www.martincordova.com
>



-- 
Sergey Soldatov

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

I am just checking a dependency. Don't think so.

Regards,
Martin

On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could it be treated as a reverse engineering? I don't know :)
>
> On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know how it works, but what I can do is try to use headless
> > without XOrg shared libs installed, and then take note of the missing
> > .so modules the IBM JVM complains about).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe some
> > > other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
> > > its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay) to
> > > get some data, fails and uses defaults?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
> > > determine the requirements.
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> > > >
> > > > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > > > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> > > > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> > > > just the libs.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Martin Cordova
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
> > > > > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
> > > > > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> > > > >
> > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > > > > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > > > > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
> > > > > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
> > > > > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
> > > > > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
> > > > > xlib calls, right?).
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > > > > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > > > > > > mode?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > > > is completed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> > > > > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > open source, easy and powerful
> > http://www.martincordova.com
> >
>


-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

Could it be treated as a reverse engineering? I don't know :)

On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know how it works, but what I can do is try to use headless
> without XOrg shared libs installed, and then take note of the missing
> .so modules the IBM JVM complains about).
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
> On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe some
> > other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
> > its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay) to
> > get some data, fails and uses defaults?
> >
> > Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
> > determine the requirements.
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> > >
> > > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> > > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> > > just the libs.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin Cordova
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> > > >
> > > > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
> > > > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
> > > > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> > > >
> > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > > is completed?
> > > > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > > > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > > > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
> > > > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
> > > > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
> > > > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
> > > > xlib calls, right?).
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> > > >
> > > > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > > > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > > > > > mode?
> > > > >
> > > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > > >
> > > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > > is completed?
> > > > >
> > > > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > > > >
> > > > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> > > > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Tim
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > > open source, easy and powerful
> > > http://www.martincordova.com
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> open source, easy and powerful
> http://www.martincordova.com
>

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

I don't know how it works, but what I can do is try to use headless
without XOrg shared libs installed, and then take note of the missing
.so modules the IBM JVM complains about).

Regards,
Martin


On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe some
> other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
> its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay) to
> get some data, fails and uses defaults?
>
> Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
> determine the requirements.
>
> On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
> >
> > How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> > requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> > working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> > just the libs.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin Cordova
> >
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> > >
> > > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
> > > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
> > > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> > >
> > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > is completed?
> > > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
> > > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
> > > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
> > > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
> > > xlib calls, right?).
> > >
> > > [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > > > > mode?
> > > >
> > > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > > >
> > > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > > is completed?
> > > >
> > > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > > >
> > > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> > > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> > open source, easy and powerful
> > http://www.martincordova.com
> >
>


-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

If you mean libxlib, how it could be used without X server? Maybe some
other library (e.g. font library like xft) simply preloads it during
its initialization or tries to connect to the server (XOpenDisplay) to
get some data, fails and uses defaults?

Anyway, I think, testing on a headless environment will help us to
determine the requirements.

On 10/25/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<
>
> How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
> requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
> working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
> just the libs.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Cordova
>
>
> On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > I don't think that spec for this exists.
> >
> > Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
> > be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
> > throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
> >
> > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > is completed?
> > This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> > initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> > isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
> > provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
> > which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
> > hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
> > xlib calls, right?).
> >
> > [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > > > mode?
> > >
> > > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> > >
> > > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > > is completed?
> > >
> > > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> > >
> > > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> > > working that is required in headless mode.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
> open source, easy and powerful
> http://www.martincordova.com
>

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

>> (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all xlib calls, right?). <<

How implemented IBM their headless stuff? In their case it's a
requirement to have XOrg shared libraries installed to have headless
working. In order distros it was XFree libs. No need for an X server,
just the libs.

Regards,
Martin Cordova


On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> I don't think that spec for this exists.
>
> Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
> be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
> throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).
>
> > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > is completed?
> This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
> initialization code which depends on system configuration with
> isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
> provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
> which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
> hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
> xlib calls, right?).
>
> [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/
>
> On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Martin Cordova wrote:
> > > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > > mode?
> >
> > Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> > the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
> >
> > Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> > to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> > now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> > is completed?
> >
> > > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
> >
> > well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> > working that is required in headless mode.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> > --
> >
> > Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> >
> >
>


-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

> Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
I don't think that spec for this exists.

Another document on this is [1]. It describes what can and what cannot
be done in headless mode. But we also have the list of methods which
throw HeadlessException (from the API spec).

> Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> is completed?
This is only a part of a task. We may also need to guard native
initialization code which depends on system configuration with
isHeadless checks (just skip it in headless mode). And, probably,
provide an alternative simplified implementation for some awt code
which could be called in headless mode to prevent from falling into
hardware-dependent native code (e.g. for linux we need to exclude all
xlib calls, right?).

[1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/

On 10/25/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Martin Cordova wrote:
> > Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> > to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> > mode?
>
> Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
> the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.
>
> Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
> to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
> now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
> is completed?
>
> > If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?
>
> well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
> working that is required in headless mode.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
>
>

[classlib][awt] headless support (was: Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...)

[Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>]

Martin Cordova wrote:
> Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
> to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
> mode?

Right, that is my question too.  I've seen the general description at
the URL Oleg sent, it's hardly a spec tho'.

Presumably it is easier for us to find all the methods that are declared
to throw a HeadlessException, and put in the isHeadless() test right
now, so we can have a compliant headless implementation before the GUI
is completed?

> If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?

well we still have to get all the imageIO, print, font and other code
working that is required in headless mode.

Regards,
Tim

-- 

Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com>]

Oleg, I just read it, does this mean that all methods that don't need
to throw the special Headless exception, are ready to work in headless
mode? If so, we are just a step away for supporting headless?

Regards,
Martin

On 10/25/06, Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> > what this means?  A spec maybe?
>
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/awt/AWTChanges.html#headless
>
> On 10/25/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> > what this means?  A spec maybe?
> >
> > Also.. Martin... want to help?  :)
> >
> > geir
> >
> >
> > Oleg Khaschansky wrote:
> > >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > >> > box without a graphics environment.
> > >
> > > Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
> > > there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
> > > know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
> > > still have other things in the todo list.
> > >
> > > On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Martin Cordova wrote:
> > >> > 1.- Have a planned date?
> > >>
> > >> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
> > >>
> > >> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > >> > box without a graphics environment.
> > >>
> > >> I dunno :)
> > >>
> > >> geir
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > Martin
> > >>
> > >
> >
>


-- 
Dinamica - RADical J2EE framework
open source, easy and powerful
http://www.martincordova.com

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

> As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> what this means?  A spec maybe?

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/awt/AWTChanges.html#headless

On 10/25/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of
> what this means?  A spec maybe?
>
> Also.. Martin... want to help?  :)
>
> geir
>
>
> Oleg Khaschansky wrote:
> >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> >> > box without a graphics environment.
> >
> > Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
> > there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
> > know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
> > still have other things in the todo list.
> >
> > On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Martin Cordova wrote:
> >> > 1.- Have a planned date?
> >>
> >> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
> >>
> >> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> >> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> >> > box without a graphics environment.
> >>
> >> I dunno :)
> >>
> >> geir
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Martin
> >>
> >
>

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>]

As Tim asked earlier in the thread...  is there a clear definition of 
what this means?  A spec maybe?

Also.. Martin... want to help?  :)

geir


Oleg Khaschansky wrote:
>> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
>> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
>> > box without a graphics environment.
> 
> Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
> there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
> know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
> still have other things in the todo list.
> 
> On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Martin Cordova wrote:
>> > 1.- Have a planned date?
>>
>> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
>>
>> >
>> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
>>
>> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
>>
>> >
>> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
>> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
>> > box without a graphics environment.
>>
>> I dunno :)
>>
>> geir
>>
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Martin
>>
> 

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Oleg Khaschansky <ol...@gmail.com>]

> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > box without a graphics environment.

Definitely, headless support will be implemented in the future and
there are no obstacles which prevent us from doing this. But I don't
know when exactly it will be done, this requires some efforts and we
still have other things in the todo list.

On 10/24/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. <ge...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
> Martin Cordova wrote:
> > 1.- Have a planned date?
>
> None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?
>
> >
> > 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)
>
> Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase
>
> >
> > 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> > like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> > box without a graphics environment.
>
> I dunno :)
>
> geir
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martin
>

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>]

Martin Cordova wrote:
> 1.- Have a planned date?

None yet, but doing this week would be good.  Any other opinions?

> 
> 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)

Only if they have been integrated into the SVN codebase

> 
> 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> box without a graphics environment.

I dunno :)

geir

> 
> Regards,
> Martin

Re: [snapshot] Questions about next snapshot...

[Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>]

On 24/10/06, Martin Cordova <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1.- Have a planned date?

No, we don't tend to plan the dates in advance, but rather roll a
developer release/snapshot once we reach a stable point in
development.

Of course, you can build from source (as described in the contributor
link[1] on the project homepage); or wait while we poll the developers
to agree on a good time to snap'.

[1] http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/quickhelp_contributors.html

> 2.- Will include latest aproved contributions (ImageIO)

Yes for ImageIO -- it will include all the approved contributions that
have been merged into the codebase.

> 3.- Will be possible to create graphics in awt-headless mode? I would
> like to test servlets generating charts (using JFreeCharts) in a Linux
> box without a graphics environment.

I'll let the AWT folk answer that question; I haven't seen a crisp
definition of what it means to run in headless mode (I've seen broad
descriptions, but not a specific list of what works and what throws an
exception).

Regards,
Tim

-- 

Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)