[DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>]

Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now is a good
time to propose this update.

Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3. Thus we
would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp (maintainer)
to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.

The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries in the
unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain parameters.

Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration tests ;-)

Robert Dale

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>]

On testing, I don't think increased flexibility changes our responsibility
to test beyond a single, fixed version i.e. supported version.  Of course,
some poor soul could volunteer to manually run the tests against 3.x (or
whatever versions) before a release just as a quick compatibility check. If
the test doesn't pass, the release doesn't stop, that version is just
marked as incompatible.

Robert Dale

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Personally, I'd rather not include neo4j in our packaging of the
> console/server. I'd prefer to completely leave it up to users to decide if
> they want any aspect of neo4j in their distribution. So I guess if I was
> considering that I would be looking at:
>
> install org.apache.tinkerpop neo4j-gremlin 3.2.3
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
> or
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3
>
> If we went that route, I would say it would definitely be a change for
> 3.3.0. I like that we can drop the manifest entry - that's good. The double
> "install" command kinda stinks, but it doesn't really bother me all that
> much. Not sure if others have opinions. I don't see neo4j dependency stuff
> moving up to <dependencyManagement> in the parent pom as a bad move.
>
> Allowing this though means we now have to actually test/maintain multiple
> versions of neo4j. We've not done that before. Do we want the additional
> work of maintaining multiple versions? If so, how do you test with both
> versions? Two separate maven profiles i guess? I don't imagine they could
> be run together in the same build either, right (you'd need to run the
> build with one profile then again with the second)?
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Or maybe leave the version up to the user.  If we remove the plugin dep
> on
> > the impl from neo4j-gremlin, then we can say "Tested on x.  Feel free to
> > install any impl that implements neo4j-tinkerpop-api version y".  I think
> > that's where the logical boundary is anyway.  Of course, installing
> becomes
> > a two step process instead of one.
> >
> > install org.apache.tinkerpop neo4j-gremlin 3.2.3
> > install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
> > or
> > install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3
> >
> > However, at that point neo4j-gremlin could just be included since there's
> > no longer a license issue. Then we're back to a single install step.
> >
> > install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
> > or
> > install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3
> >
> > Could also add a link to available versions - http://search.maven.org/#
> > search%7Cga%7C1%7Ca%3A%22neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl%22
> >
> > I think the other benefit here is that it simplifies the neo4j-gremlin
> pom.
> > The manifest entry can be removed which also removes duplicate version
> > info. Not that it's a great burden or anything but they should be kept in
> > sync.  Any reason why the neo4j version property and dep management
> > couldn't be pushed to the parent pom? That is stuff that could be shared
> > between gremlin-server and neo4j-gremlin.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> >
> > Robert Dale
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > OK - 3.3.0 is fine by me. maybe better to do a big upgrade of neo4j on
> a
> > > big release of ours.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > One reason to not upgrade the version in existing release trains is
> to
> > > not
> > > > force anyone to upgrade their neo4j database. It's an irreversible
> > > database
> > > > format change from neo4j 2.x to 3.0. There may be other breaking
> > changes
> > > > specific to neo4j itself [1].
> > > >
> > > > OTOH, there are no TinkerPop API changes so it's "easy" enough for
> > users
> > > to
> > > > manually downgrade (or upgrade) neo4j version. So if we do upgrade a
> > > patch
> > > > release, like 3.2.4, then they can remain on neo4j 2.3.x.
> > > >
> > > > The patch will actually work down to TP 3.1. I haven't tested
> earlier.
> > > >
> > > > 1. https://neo4j.com/guides/upgrade/#neo4j-3-0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Robert Dale
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Stephen Mallette <
> > spmallette@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go
> to
> > > > > 3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now
> > is a
> > > > > good
> > > > > > time to propose this update.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> > > > > > neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> > > > > > is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3.
> > Thus
> > > we
> > > > > > would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp
> > > > > (maintainer)
> > > > > > to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher
> queries
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain
> > > parameters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration
> > > tests
> > > > > ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Robert Dale
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>]

Personally, I'd rather not include neo4j in our packaging of the
console/server. I'd prefer to completely leave it up to users to decide if
they want any aspect of neo4j in their distribution. So I guess if I was
considering that I would be looking at:

install org.apache.tinkerpop neo4j-gremlin 3.2.3
install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
or
install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3

If we went that route, I would say it would definitely be a change for
3.3.0. I like that we can drop the manifest entry - that's good. The double
"install" command kinda stinks, but it doesn't really bother me all that
much. Not sure if others have opinions. I don't see neo4j dependency stuff
moving up to <dependencyManagement> in the parent pom as a bad move.

Allowing this though means we now have to actually test/maintain multiple
versions of neo4j. We've not done that before. Do we want the additional
work of maintaining multiple versions? If so, how do you test with both
versions? Two separate maven profiles i guess? I don't imagine they could
be run together in the same build either, right (you'd need to run the
build with one profile then again with the second)?

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Or maybe leave the version up to the user.  If we remove the plugin dep on
> the impl from neo4j-gremlin, then we can say "Tested on x.  Feel free to
> install any impl that implements neo4j-tinkerpop-api version y".  I think
> that's where the logical boundary is anyway.  Of course, installing becomes
> a two step process instead of one.
>
> install org.apache.tinkerpop neo4j-gremlin 3.2.3
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
> or
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3
>
> However, at that point neo4j-gremlin could just be included since there's
> no longer a license issue. Then we're back to a single install step.
>
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
> or
> install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3
>
> Could also add a link to available versions - http://search.maven.org/#
> search%7Cga%7C1%7Ca%3A%22neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl%22
>
> I think the other benefit here is that it simplifies the neo4j-gremlin pom.
> The manifest entry can be removed which also removes duplicate version
> info. Not that it's a great burden or anything but they should be kept in
> sync.  Any reason why the neo4j version property and dep management
> couldn't be pushed to the parent pom? That is stuff that could be shared
> between gremlin-server and neo4j-gremlin.
>
> WDYT?
>
>
> Robert Dale
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > OK - 3.3.0 is fine by me. maybe better to do a big upgrade of neo4j on a
> > big release of ours.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > One reason to not upgrade the version in existing release trains is to
> > not
> > > force anyone to upgrade their neo4j database. It's an irreversible
> > database
> > > format change from neo4j 2.x to 3.0. There may be other breaking
> changes
> > > specific to neo4j itself [1].
> > >
> > > OTOH, there are no TinkerPop API changes so it's "easy" enough for
> users
> > to
> > > manually downgrade (or upgrade) neo4j version. So if we do upgrade a
> > patch
> > > release, like 3.2.4, then they can remain on neo4j 2.3.x.
> > >
> > > The patch will actually work down to TP 3.1. I haven't tested earlier.
> > >
> > > 1. https://neo4j.com/guides/upgrade/#neo4j-3-0
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert Dale
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Stephen Mallette <
> spmallette@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go to
> > > > 3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now
> is a
> > > > good
> > > > > time to propose this update.
> > > > >
> > > > > Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> > > > > neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> > > > > is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3.
> Thus
> > we
> > > > > would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp
> > > > (maintainer)
> > > > > to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
> > > > >
> > > > > The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain
> > parameters.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration
> > tests
> > > > ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert Dale
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>]

Or maybe leave the version up to the user.  If we remove the plugin dep on
the impl from neo4j-gremlin, then we can say "Tested on x.  Feel free to
install any impl that implements neo4j-tinkerpop-api version y".  I think
that's where the logical boundary is anyway.  Of course, installing becomes
a two step process instead of one.

install org.apache.tinkerpop neo4j-gremlin 3.2.3
install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
or
install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3

However, at that point neo4j-gremlin could just be included since there's
no longer a license issue. Then we're back to a single install step.

install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.3-2.3.3
or
install org.neo4j neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl 0.4-3.0.3

Could also add a link to available versions - http://search.maven.org/#
search%7Cga%7C1%7Ca%3A%22neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl%22

I think the other benefit here is that it simplifies the neo4j-gremlin pom.
The manifest entry can be removed which also removes duplicate version
info. Not that it's a great burden or anything but they should be kept in
sync.  Any reason why the neo4j version property and dep management
couldn't be pushed to the parent pom? That is stuff that could be shared
between gremlin-server and neo4j-gremlin.

WDYT?


Robert Dale

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> OK - 3.3.0 is fine by me. maybe better to do a big upgrade of neo4j on a
> big release of ours.
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One reason to not upgrade the version in existing release trains is to
> not
> > force anyone to upgrade their neo4j database. It's an irreversible
> database
> > format change from neo4j 2.x to 3.0. There may be other breaking changes
> > specific to neo4j itself [1].
> >
> > OTOH, there are no TinkerPop API changes so it's "easy" enough for users
> to
> > manually downgrade (or upgrade) neo4j version. So if we do upgrade a
> patch
> > release, like 3.2.4, then they can remain on neo4j 2.3.x.
> >
> > The patch will actually work down to TP 3.1. I haven't tested earlier.
> >
> > 1. https://neo4j.com/guides/upgrade/#neo4j-3-0
> >
> >
> > Robert Dale
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go to
> > > 3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now is a
> > > good
> > > > time to propose this update.
> > > >
> > > > Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> > > > neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> > > > is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3. Thus
> we
> > > > would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp
> > > (maintainer)
> > > > to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
> > > >
> > > > The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries
> in
> > > the
> > > > unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain
> parameters.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration
> tests
> > > ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Robert Dale
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>]

OK - 3.3.0 is fine by me. maybe better to do a big upgrade of neo4j on a
big release of ours.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> One reason to not upgrade the version in existing release trains is to not
> force anyone to upgrade their neo4j database. It's an irreversible database
> format change from neo4j 2.x to 3.0. There may be other breaking changes
> specific to neo4j itself [1].
>
> OTOH, there are no TinkerPop API changes so it's "easy" enough for users to
> manually downgrade (or upgrade) neo4j version. So if we do upgrade a patch
> release, like 3.2.4, then they can remain on neo4j 2.3.x.
>
> The patch will actually work down to TP 3.1. I haven't tested earlier.
>
> 1. https://neo4j.com/guides/upgrade/#neo4j-3-0
>
>
> Robert Dale
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go to
> > 3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now is a
> > good
> > > time to propose this update.
> > >
> > > Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> > > neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> > > is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3. Thus we
> > > would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp
> > (maintainer)
> > > to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
> > >
> > > The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries in
> > the
> > > unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain parameters.
> > >
> > > Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration tests
> > ;-)
> > >
> > > Robert Dale
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com>]

One reason to not upgrade the version in existing release trains is to not
force anyone to upgrade their neo4j database. It's an irreversible database
format change from neo4j 2.x to 3.0. There may be other breaking changes
specific to neo4j itself [1].

OTOH, there are no TinkerPop API changes so it's "easy" enough for users to
manually downgrade (or upgrade) neo4j version. So if we do upgrade a patch
release, like 3.2.4, then they can remain on neo4j 2.3.x.

The patch will actually work down to TP 3.1. I haven't tested earlier.

1. https://neo4j.com/guides/upgrade/#neo4j-3-0


Robert Dale

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go to
> 3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now is a
> good
> > time to propose this update.
> >
> > Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> > neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> > is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3. Thus we
> > would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp
> (maintainer)
> > to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
> >
> > The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries in
> the
> > unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain parameters.
> >
> > Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration tests
> ;-)
> >
> > Robert Dale
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Neo4j 3.0 Upgrade

[Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>]

Is this actually a breaking change for users that would need to go to
3.0.0? Any reason it can't go to 3.2.4?

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Robert Dale <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Since TinkerPop 3.3.0 is introducing major changes, I figure now is a good
> time to propose this update.
>
> Neo4j 3.0 was released on 4/26/2016.  It's now at 3.0.7.  The
> neo4j-tinkerpop-api-impl
> is also at 3.0.7 however the latest in the maven repo is 3.0.3. Thus we
> would use the 3.0.3 version for now. I can sync-up with @jexp (maintainer)
> to find out when 3.0.7 might be available in maven.
>
> The changes are minimal in that there are just a few cypher queries in the
> unit tests that need parens - now required - around certain parameters.
>
> Sorry, there's not a significant time savings in the integration tests ;-)
>
> Robert Dale
>