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Posted to marketing@openoffice.apache.org by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> on 2011/10/28 00:31:45 UTC
[domains]
Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle transferred to the ASF.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation which is in the thread..
Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the domains other than openoffice.org?
http://testopenoffice.org
http://openoffice2009.com
http://openoffice-gratuit.com
http://openoffice-pt.com
http://openoffice-pl.com
http://openoffice-nl.com
http://openoffice-fr.com
http://openoffice09fr.com
http://de-openoffice.org
http://deopenoffice.org
http://www-open-office.org
http://wwwopen-office.org
http://de-openoffice.com
http://deopenoffice.com
http://es-openoffice.com
http://esopenoffice.com
http://fr-openoffice.com
http://fropenoffice.com
http://it-openoffice.com
http://itopenoffice.com
http://en-openoffice.org
http://enopenoffice.org
http://es-openoffice.org
http://esopenoffice.org
http://fr-openoffice.org
http://it-openoffice.org
http://itopenoffice.org
http://nl-openoffice.org
http://nlopenoffice.org
http://openoffice.org.il
http://itopenoffice.org
Regards,
Dave
Re: [domains]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>.
On 29/10/2011 00:35, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Oct 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> As for that list of domain names, there is no harm just redirecting
>>>> them all to the appropriate AOOo websites. But is it worth the
>>>> registrar expenses? ...
>>> this shows commitment to end users.
>> Shows who? Most people directly involved in the project did not know
>> about these domains. I assume even fewer users know about them. ...
> Numerous people have fraudulently abused users
Exactly. You don't need to be able to read Italian to understand that
discussions like this one (referencing officially sanctioned fraud cases)
http://user.services.openoffice.org/it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=309
attract a lot of attention and that being able to show that the project
cares about this, even if only by redirecting former scam sites to the
official OOo site, would be a nice sign of attention to final users...
and possibly a way to get some donations too.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: [domains]
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Oct 28, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Andrea Pescetti
> <pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> As for that list of domain names, there is no harm just redirecting
>>> them all to the appropriate AOOo websites. But is it worth the
>>> registrar expenses?
>>
>> It is probably worth it, because the registrar expenses are not very high
>> (probably 5-10 USD per domain) but this shows commitment to end users.
>>
>
> Shows who? Most people directly involved in the project did not know
> about these domains. I assume even fewer users know about them. So
> no one really sees our commitment.
I've seen user posts about "I bought support and how come the list is not giving it to me".
Numerous people have fraudulently abused users with offers to support. They do not let people know what they can get for free.
>
> Maybe there is a way we can make users aware of this? Maybe a page on
> our commitment to protect the trademarks and information on how users
> can ensure that they are downloading "genuine OpenOffice"? We do have
> technical means to protect users, with checksums, but this is not
> something that an average user will understand.
Exactly. Think of explaining it to a 70 year old. People are paying for a download that is free. Since they paid money they are upset when they don't get service.
>
> But we should keep in mind that it is perfectly acceptable for someone
> to take Apache OpenOffice, rebuild it, extend it, redistribute it on
> another web site and even to sell it. The Apache license allows this.
> But the product they sell would not be called "OpenOffice.org" use
> the trademarked logo or use any name or logo that would be confused
> with our trademarks,
Yup. Since Sun/Oracle was able to seize some of these domains clearly they were in violation.
>
>> Of course this cannot be totally effective, since there are thousands of
>> domain name variants that can be used and "squatted" for commercial purposes
>> by people external to the project; but the issue of "unofficial" download
>> sites is very important to users and, if the project manages to secure at
>> least this symbolic list of domain names and redirect them to the official
>> site, it shows that it cares about a problem that has nothing to do with
>> development but that users perceive as important.
Perhaps we need to have a discussion with Shane about who to contact when we detect an abusive website, blog, or social media account. The ASF does have lawyers. It's one of the areas where donations go.
Regards,
Dave
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
Re: [domains]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Andrea Pescetti
<pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> As for that list of domain names, there is no harm just redirecting
>> them all to the appropriate AOOo websites. But is it worth the
>> registrar expenses?
>
> It is probably worth it, because the registrar expenses are not very high
> (probably 5-10 USD per domain) but this shows commitment to end users.
>
Shows who? Most people directly involved in the project did not know
about these domains. I assume even fewer users know about them. So
no one really sees our commitment.
Maybe there is a way we can make users aware of this? Maybe a page on
our commitment to protect the trademarks and information on how users
can ensure that they are downloading "genuine OpenOffice"? We do have
technical means to protect users, with checksums, but this is not
something that an average user will understand.
But we should keep in mind that it is perfectly acceptable for someone
to take Apache OpenOffice, rebuild it, extend it, redistribute it on
another web site and even to sell it. The Apache license allows this.
But the product they sell would not be called "OpenOffice.org" use
the trademarked logo or use any name or logo that would be confused
with our trademarks,
> Of course this cannot be totally effective, since there are thousands of
> domain name variants that can be used and "squatted" for commercial purposes
> by people external to the project; but the issue of "unofficial" download
> sites is very important to users and, if the project manages to secure at
> least this symbolic list of domain names and redirect them to the official
> site, it shows that it cares about a problem that has nothing to do with
> development but that users perceive as important.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Re: [domains]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> As for that list of domain names, there is no harm just redirecting
> them all to the appropriate AOOo websites. But is it worth the
> registrar expenses?
It is probably worth it, because the registrar expenses are not very
high (probably 5-10 USD per domain) but this shows commitment to end users.
Of course this cannot be totally effective, since there are thousands of
domain name variants that can be used and "squatted" for commercial
purposes by people external to the project; but the issue of
"unofficial" download sites is very important to users and, if the
project manages to secure at least this symbolic list of domain names
and redirect them to the official site, it shows that it cares about a
problem that has nothing to do with development but that users perceive
as important.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: [domains]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:07 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-10-27 at 19:54 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle transferred to the ASF.
>> >
>> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
>> >
>> > But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation which is in the thread..
>> >
>> > Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the domains other than openoffice.org?
>> >
>>
>> Are any of these actually used? Or where they just defensive
>> registrations? I thought we used subdomains for the real sites,
>> e.g., http://de.openoffice.org
>
> Some of them, at least, were awarded to Sun Microsystems after claiming
> copyright infringement IIRC - they where being used to sell copies of
> OpenOffice.org.
>
OK. But there are nearly an infinite number of variations of domain
name likes that. We can't register them all. Our strongest defense
is to make sure that AOOo is well known and that Google/Bing searches
for likely keywords lead users to our website, i.e., we're #1 for the
queries:
- openoffice
- open office
- free office
- open source office
- open source spreadsheet
etc. (We should probably make a list and track our performance)
As for that list of domain names, there is no harm just redirecting
them all to the appropriate AOOo websites. But is it worth the
registrar expenses?
-Rob
> //drew
>
>>
>> hwww-open-office.org might be good to hold on to for defensive
>> purposes, redirected to www.openoffice.org
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > http://testopenoffice.org
>> > http://openoffice2009.com
>> > http://openoffice-gratuit.com
>> > http://openoffice-pt.com
>> > http://openoffice-pl.com
>> > http://openoffice-nl.com
>> > http://openoffice-fr.com
>> > http://openoffice09fr.com
>> > http://de-openoffice.org
>> > http://deopenoffice.org
>> > http://www-open-office.org
>> > http://wwwopen-office.org
>> > http://de-openoffice.com
>> > http://deopenoffice.com
>> > http://es-openoffice.com
>> > http://esopenoffice.com
>> > http://fr-openoffice.com
>> > http://fropenoffice.com
>> > http://it-openoffice.com
>> > http://itopenoffice.com
>> > http://en-openoffice.org
>> > http://enopenoffice.org
>> > http://es-openoffice.org
>> > http://esopenoffice.org
>> > http://fr-openoffice.org
>> > http://it-openoffice.org
>> > http://itopenoffice.org
>> > http://nl-openoffice.org
>> > http://nlopenoffice.org
>> > http://openoffice.org.il
>> > http://itopenoffice.org
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Dave
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Re: [domains]
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Thu, 2011-10-27 at 19:54 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle transferred to the ASF.
> >
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
> >
> > But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation which is in the thread..
> >
> > Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the domains other than openoffice.org?
> >
>
> Are any of these actually used? Or where they just defensive
> registrations? I thought we used subdomains for the real sites,
> e.g., http://de.openoffice.org
Some of them, at least, were awarded to Sun Microsystems after claiming
copyright infringement IIRC - they where being used to sell copies of
OpenOffice.org.
//drew
>
> hwww-open-office.org might be good to hold on to for defensive
> purposes, redirected to www.openoffice.org
>
> -Rob
>
> > http://testopenoffice.org
> > http://openoffice2009.com
> > http://openoffice-gratuit.com
> > http://openoffice-pt.com
> > http://openoffice-pl.com
> > http://openoffice-nl.com
> > http://openoffice-fr.com
> > http://openoffice09fr.com
> > http://de-openoffice.org
> > http://deopenoffice.org
> > http://www-open-office.org
> > http://wwwopen-office.org
> > http://de-openoffice.com
> > http://deopenoffice.com
> > http://es-openoffice.com
> > http://esopenoffice.com
> > http://fr-openoffice.com
> > http://fropenoffice.com
> > http://it-openoffice.com
> > http://itopenoffice.com
> > http://en-openoffice.org
> > http://enopenoffice.org
> > http://es-openoffice.org
> > http://esopenoffice.org
> > http://fr-openoffice.org
> > http://it-openoffice.org
> > http://itopenoffice.org
> > http://nl-openoffice.org
> > http://nlopenoffice.org
> > http://openoffice.org.il
> > http://itopenoffice.org
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
Re: [domains]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle transferred to the ASF.
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
>
> But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation which is in the thread..
>
> Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the domains other than openoffice.org?
>
Are any of these actually used? Or where they just defensive
registrations? I thought we used subdomains for the real sites,
e.g., http://de.openoffice.org
hwww-open-office.org might be good to hold on to for defensive
purposes, redirected to www.openoffice.org
-Rob
> http://testopenoffice.org
> http://openoffice2009.com
> http://openoffice-gratuit.com
> http://openoffice-pt.com
> http://openoffice-pl.com
> http://openoffice-nl.com
> http://openoffice-fr.com
> http://openoffice09fr.com
> http://de-openoffice.org
> http://deopenoffice.org
> http://www-open-office.org
> http://wwwopen-office.org
> http://de-openoffice.com
> http://deopenoffice.com
> http://es-openoffice.com
> http://esopenoffice.com
> http://fr-openoffice.com
> http://fropenoffice.com
> http://it-openoffice.com
> http://itopenoffice.com
> http://en-openoffice.org
> http://enopenoffice.org
> http://es-openoffice.org
> http://esopenoffice.org
> http://fr-openoffice.org
> http://it-openoffice.org
> http://itopenoffice.org
> http://nl-openoffice.org
> http://nlopenoffice.org
> http://openoffice.org.il
> http://itopenoffice.org
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
Re: [domains]
Posted by Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>
> To: "ooo-marketing@incubator.apache.org" <oo...@incubator.apache.org>
> Cc:
> Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [domains]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>> To: ooo-marketing@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Friday, 28 October 2011 9:31 AM
>> Subject: [domains]
>>
>> Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle
>> transferred to the ASF.
>>
>>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
>>
>> But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation
>> which is in the thread..
>>
>> Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the
>> domains other than openoffice. org?
>>
> <snip>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>
>
> The openoffice.org domains are a jungle.
>
<snip>
> Regards, Terry
There is a broken link on the new support page. It is the fifth item below the heading "OpenOffice Community Support".
Re: [domains]
Posted by Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> To: ooo-marketing@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, 28 October 2011 9:31 AM
> Subject: [domains]
>
> Back in August Shane Curcuru announced the names of domains that Oracle
> transferred to the ASF.
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3C4E4C0E94.4010701%40shanecurcuru.org%3E
>
> But there is a whole long list of other domains. There was some investigation
> which is in the thread..
>
> Since there is now a marketing list, what should the project do about all of the
> domains other than openoffice. org?
>
<snip>
>
> Regards,
> Dave
The openoffice.org domains are a jungle.
First few links tested around Fri 28 Oct 2011 10:20:59 EST (Australia) (UTC 10 hours earlier)
http://www.testopenoffice.org
all links here could be placed in a special place on the home page in a
section called (for example) 'how you can contribute'. One of the
links is projects. testopenoffice. org/native-lang.html
openoffice2009. com/ "Firefox can't find the server at www. openoffice2009. com"
openoffice-gratuit. com/ "Firefox can't find the server at www. openoffice-gratuit. com"
openoffice-pt. com/ "Firefox can't find the server at www. openoffice-pt. com"
I shan't test any more pages.
With regard to languages other than English, links to these pages could be placed on the home page and on the
download page.
Regards, Terry