[ot][shale] How did JavaOne go?

[Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>]

Craig,

I was unable to make JavaOne this year.  I read a brief account of
your presentation on David's blog.  How did the overall presentation
go?  How was Shale received?

sean

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JavaOne Web Framework Smackdown (was: Re: [ot][shale] How did JavaOne go?)

[Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>]

At 10:31 AM -0700 7/6/05, Craig McClanahan wrote:
>While you're grabbing sessions, you'll also enjoy the "Web Application
>Framework Smackdown" (later on Wednesday afternoon), where David
>represented Shale on stage (along with reps for JSF, WebWork,
>Tapestry, and Echo).  Hands down the most entertaining JavaOne session
>I've been to in my six years of going.  (PS:  more than a few people
>told me that they figured Struts 1.x won, despite not being on stage
>at all :-).

Interesting; a friend told me that Struts took quite a bit of dissing 
in the smackdown, but maybe setting it up with a title like that 
makes such a result inevitable.  (Craig, he was also quite impressed 
by your Shale presentation ;-)

Anyway, he didn't give me such a clear impression that Struts "won", 
but then, I don't suppose winning is the point.  As I told him, I am 
happy to learn everything I can from other frameworks to make Struts 
better.

Does anyone else have reports from that session, or care to point out 
any lessons we should learn?

Joe

-- 
Joe Germuska            
Joe@Germuska.com  
http://blog.germuska.com    
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction"  -The Ex

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Re: [ot][shale] How did JavaOne go?

[Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>]

Craig,

Thanks for the update.  It sounds like there is some momentum building
for JSF and Shale.  I went to re-download the appendix to Kito Mann's
JSF book and noticed that its out of stock.  That would seem to be
good news.

Nice job on adding a shale webpage.  I meant to suggest that a while
ago.  I think that will be a good starting point for people
investigating Shale.  I think many developers will be hesitant to
explore something that only has a few wiki pages behind it.

I'm working on exploring David's TilesViewHandler.  I've been bugging
him (along with many other people) for that for months now.  I can't
wait to get it up and running (see other thread for my problems with
that.)

I'll be sure to check out the video archive of your presentation (and
the smackdown.)  I was looking forward to the smackdown as well and it
sounds like it was as lively as I expected.

sean

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Re: [ot][shale] How did JavaOne go?

[Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>]

The overall session went great.  We presented in a room that had 900
seats, at lunch time on Wednesday, and basically packed it (there
might have been an overflow room too; I didn't have time to check). 
People who attended definitely "get it" now about what Shale is, and
how it relates to Struts 1.x.  In addition, we were able to demo some
cool stuff (including the integration to standalone Tiles that David
committed to the Struts repository last night, the use of Commons
Validator for client side plus server side validation, and using Clay
for those who prefer "Tapestry-like views" over JSP pages).  My
understanding is that a full A-V recording of this session (and all
the others) will be posted on the Sun Developer Network (free
registration required) later this summer so people who didn't attend
can see the whole thing including the demos -- which were a bit over
half the overall content.

Compared to David's, umm, "intense" nerviousness getting his demo
ready, in the midst of the session :-), my part of the demos were
*really* easy -- just edit a couple of JSP pages to remove some
comment markers (which I could do in place, so didn't even need to
redeploy), plus do the same on the Clay config file a bit later (with
a quick redeploy courtesy of the Tomcat manager webapp previously
opened in another window).  And, as anyone who has ever seen me give a
presentation knows, I can talk forever :-) ... and I really *was*
ready to cover for David if he wasn't quite ready yet ... but the
timing worked out just as if we'd planned the whole thing that way. 
Phew!  :-)

While you're grabbing sessions, you'll also enjoy the "Web Application
Framework Smackdown" (later on Wednesday afternoon), where David
represented Shale on stage (along with reps for JSF, WebWork,
Tapestry, and Echo).  Hands down the most entertaining JavaOne session
I've been to in my six years of going.  (PS:  more than a few people
told me that they figured Struts 1.x won, despite not being on stage
at all :-).

To test how acceptance of Shale is going, I tried one interesting
experiment during the week ... when I talked about what I do, I would
mention in passing "and I work on Shale", without describing what it
is (unless they ask).  Tellingly, almost everyone who was familiar
with the Java web tier already had at least heard of it, and most of
them had at least a basic grasp on how it is different (based on JSF
instead of agnostic).

Another interesting note ... although the word "shale" is much more
common than the word  "struts", the Shale wiki page
(http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsShale) is 12th on a Google
search, and the brand new web site (http://struts.apache.org/shale) is
already 16th.

Finally, I was also able to spend some time with the spec leads who
will be running the upcoming JSF 2.0 spec (Ed Burns and Roger Kitain,
who are currently working on JSF 1.2), and Shale can definitely be
looked at as a proving ground for concepts that might be worthy of
standardization in an upcoming "feature release" version of JSF, as
well as being useful in its own right.

Craig

PS:  David Geary also talks about Shale in his "No Fluff Just Stuff"
presos, and (for our European friends) don't be surprised if we
reprise this session at JavaPolis as well.

On 7/6/05, Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Craig,
> 
> I was unable to make JavaOne this year.  I read a brief account of
> your presentation on David's blog.  How did the overall presentation
> go?  How was Shale received?
> 
> sean
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> 
>

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