[DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org>]

There is a growing trend of attaching screenshots of stack traces,
code, and debugger sessions to JIRA cases and email threads.

I don't like it. I think we should have a policy discouraging screenshots.

In my opinion, the text is almost always preferable. It can be found
by search engines. It can be included in email messages. (ASF email
strips image attachments.) And for code, links to a line of code in
GitHub are preferable because it allows people to see the context.

When someone logs a bug with an attached PNG of a stack trace, we
should ask them to replace it with the stack trace in text format
(surrounded by {noformat} tags so that JIRA doesn't mangle it).

I will acknowledge that sometimes a screenshot of a debugger is useful
- if it shows state. Still, it needs to be accompanied by an
explanation. ("The code expects to find a key, but the map is empty.")
And perhaps the explanation and a test case would suffice.

What do people think of this?

Julian

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Danny Chan <da...@apache.org>]

Yes, +1 to handle it case by case with proper reminders.

Rui Wang <am...@apache.org> 于2020年10月30日周五 上午6:19写道：

> >People who write to dev@ list and attach the stacktrace as an image don't
> >really know if the list accepts images or not.
> >Making images forbidden does not help to teach people to
> >attach stacktraces as text.
>
> I guess the way will be when we see those cases, we reply to ask to replace
> the image by text.  This is not perfect :( but I guess that is what will
> happen.
>
>
> -Rui
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 4:19 AM Vladimir Sitnikov <
> sitnikov.vladimir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > To all who vote for "disallow images",
> > Do you think it really helps if the images are forbidden?
> >
> > People who write to dev@ list and attach the stacktrace as an image
> don't
> > really know if the list accepts images or not.
> > Making images forbidden does not help to teach people to
> > attach stacktraces as text.
> >
> > We don't want to use MS Word with a screenshot inside to share a
> > stacktrace.
> > I believe that is obvious. We don't need a discussion about that, do we?
> >
> > ---
> >
> > How are you going to share diagrams (e.g. GraphViz-based charts)?
> > How are you going to share memory leak suspects?
> >
> > There are cases when a screenshot makes a lot of sense.
> > For instance, memory dump can easily contain sensitive information, so
> > memory dump can't be shared.
> > However, a screenshot might be helpful, so a screenshot with leak
> suspects
> > would be more than welcome.
> >
> > Vladimir
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Rui Wang <am...@apache.org>]

>People who write to dev@ list and attach the stacktrace as an image don't
>really know if the list accepts images or not.
>Making images forbidden does not help to teach people to
>attach stacktraces as text.

I guess the way will be when we see those cases, we reply to ask to replace
the image by text.  This is not perfect :( but I guess that is what will
happen.


-Rui

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 4:19 AM Vladimir Sitnikov <
sitnikov.vladimir@gmail.com> wrote:

> To all who vote for "disallow images",
> Do you think it really helps if the images are forbidden?
>
> People who write to dev@ list and attach the stacktrace as an image don't
> really know if the list accepts images or not.
> Making images forbidden does not help to teach people to
> attach stacktraces as text.
>
> We don't want to use MS Word with a screenshot inside to share a
> stacktrace.
> I believe that is obvious. We don't need a discussion about that, do we?
>
> ---
>
> How are you going to share diagrams (e.g. GraphViz-based charts)?
> How are you going to share memory leak suspects?
>
> There are cases when a screenshot makes a lot of sense.
> For instance, memory dump can easily contain sensitive information, so
> memory dump can't be shared.
> However, a screenshot might be helpful, so a screenshot with leak suspects
> would be more than welcome.
>
> Vladimir
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Vladimir Sitnikov <si...@gmail.com>]

To all who vote for "disallow images",
Do you think it really helps if the images are forbidden?

People who write to dev@ list and attach the stacktrace as an image don't
really know if the list accepts images or not.
Making images forbidden does not help to teach people to
attach stacktraces as text.

We don't want to use MS Word with a screenshot inside to share a stacktrace.
I believe that is obvious. We don't need a discussion about that, do we?

---

How are you going to share diagrams (e.g. GraphViz-based charts)?
How are you going to share memory leak suspects?

There are cases when a screenshot makes a lot of sense.
For instance, memory dump can easily contain sensitive information, so
memory dump can't be shared.
However, a screenshot might be helpful, so a screenshot with leak suspects
would be more than welcome.

Vladimir

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Alessandro Solimando <al...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,
+1 for text over images whenever possible (for the same reason, it's
convenient to have it indexed by search engines).
+0 for image support, I see the benefits but I am afraid we will see less
and less text/stack traces.

Best regards,
Alessandro

On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 01:13, Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:

> +1 in favouring text over images where possible, -0 to allowing images
> on the dev list. (If images aren't allowed, I think it would almost be
> preferable if such messages could be rejected to give the author a
> chance to revise.)
>
> --
> Michael Mior
> mmior@apache.org
>
> Le mar. 27 oct. 2020 à 15:12, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
> >
> > There is a growing trend of attaching screenshots of stack traces,
> > code, and debugger sessions to JIRA cases and email threads.
> >
> > I don't like it. I think we should have a policy discouraging
> screenshots.
> >
> > In my opinion, the text is almost always preferable. It can be found
> > by search engines. It can be included in email messages. (ASF email
> > strips image attachments.) And for code, links to a line of code in
> > GitHub are preferable because it allows people to see the context.
> >
> > When someone logs a bug with an attached PNG of a stack trace, we
> > should ask them to replace it with the stack trace in text format
> > (surrounded by {noformat} tags so that JIRA doesn't mangle it).
> >
> > I will acknowledge that sometimes a screenshot of a debugger is useful
> > - if it shows state. Still, it needs to be accompanied by an
> > explanation. ("The code expects to find a key, but the map is empty.")
> > And perhaps the explanation and a test case would suffice.
> >
> > What do people think of this?
> >
> > Julian
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>]

+1 in favouring text over images where possible, -0 to allowing images
on the dev list. (If images aren't allowed, I think it would almost be
preferable if such messages could be rejected to give the author a
chance to revise.)

--
Michael Mior
mmior@apache.org

Le mar. 27 oct. 2020 à 15:12, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
> There is a growing trend of attaching screenshots of stack traces,
> code, and debugger sessions to JIRA cases and email threads.
>
> I don't like it. I think we should have a policy discouraging screenshots.
>
> In my opinion, the text is almost always preferable. It can be found
> by search engines. It can be included in email messages. (ASF email
> strips image attachments.) And for code, links to a line of code in
> GitHub are preferable because it allows people to see the context.
>
> When someone logs a bug with an attached PNG of a stack trace, we
> should ask them to replace it with the stack trace in text format
> (surrounded by {noformat} tags so that JIRA doesn't mangle it).
>
> I will acknowledge that sometimes a screenshot of a debugger is useful
> - if it shows state. Still, it needs to be accompanied by an
> explanation. ("The code expects to find a key, but the map is empty.")
> And perhaps the explanation and a test case would suffice.
>
> What do people think of this?
>
> Julian

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Stamatis Zampetakis <za...@gmail.com>]

+1 in favoring text over screenshots.

To what mentioned already, I would encourage people to attach binary files
for profiling snapshots and heap dumps in addition to static screenshots
when the size is not prohibitive.
I find it very helpful to be able to navigate the snapshot/dump myself in
order to extract additional info that is usually not available in the
screenshot.
There are many ways to capture the state of the application so we should
favor open source over commercial tools so that everybody can examine the
files.

About enabling images in the dev list, I am neither for nor against.

Best,
Stamatis

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:41 PM Francis Chuang <fr...@apache.org>
wrote:

> I agree with Julian. Stacktraces should be posted in text as much as
> possible due to the ability for the traces to be indexed by search engines.
>
> I've often googled part of a stacktrace to find a solution to the
> problem I was encountering in a mailing list or on stackoverflow.
>
> Francis
>
> On 28/10/2020 6:25 am, Vladimir Sitnikov wrote:
> > We should enable images on dev list. They are helpful.
> >
> > That can be done by infra after the relevant vote passes.
> >
> > Vladimir
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Francis Chuang <fr...@apache.org>]

I agree with Julian. Stacktraces should be posted in text as much as 
possible due to the ability for the traces to be indexed by search engines.

I've often googled part of a stacktrace to find a solution to the 
problem I was encountering in a mailing list or on stackoverflow.

Francis

On 28/10/2020 6:25 am, Vladimir Sitnikov wrote:
> We should enable images on dev list. They are helpful.
> 
> That can be done by infra after the relevant vote passes.
> 
> Vladimir
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Screenshots of stack traces, code, and debugger sessions

[Vladimir Sitnikov <si...@gmail.com>]

We should enable images on dev list. They are helpful.

That can be done by infra after the relevant vote passes.

Vladimir