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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> on 2017/05/01 12:18:11 UTC
Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the NetBeans
tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials, they
all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document itself.
I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this discussion
is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a clear
source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
Gj
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
> Regards,
>
> Eric
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
> Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
>
> On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and then
> finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some decisions....
>
> I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having a
> prototype to play with.
>
> I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient for you
> to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play with it
> and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
>
>
> Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to be sure
> I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a start.
> I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts to
> massage in some content.
>
> Thanks
>
> Wade
>
>
Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Awesome. Write it up, looking forward to trying it all out. Moving the
tutorials and any relevant content over is a trivial matter, as I've
discovered today -- though these other matters you describe need to be
resolved first, the sooner the better.
Gj
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
wrote:
> This was my point earlier in the thread about how we can bring the sites (
> platform.netbeans.org/www.netbeans.org <http://platform.netbeans.org/
> www.netbeans.org>) etc into the SSG based site. We can use the same path
> layout, and even have .html on the end to allow for links to continue to
> work. Then, later, when fully at Apache, we can then get the domain names
> to point to the same content under the hood. i.e. platform.netbeans.org <
> http://platform.netbeans.org/> would just be a CNAME for www.netbeans.org
> <http://www.netbeans.org/>, and all the content would be under one source
> tree. Then, once that happens, and if we moved things over that way, the
> old links will work. I think there are some things which perhaps are no
> longer useful, but we can worry about that later. Too, we can later work on
> some redirect scheme if we decide we need to.
>
> I suggest we work on the document here https://cwiki.apache.org/
> confluence/display/NETBEANS/New+NetBeans+Web+Site+Planning <
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
> New+NetBeans+Web+Site+Planning>
>
> I can write up how that will work with JBake, Gradle, and Scripts, for the
> above. The idea is to have Groovy scripts which strip out the base content
> specific sections of sites leaving the headers etc for the templates. Those
> different pages, based on the section of the site they are in, will be
> different page types, which means they link to different templates,
> allowing links on the sides of the pages in the templates to be context
> sensitive. The Groovy scripts (using JSoup to easily parse out HTML
> content) will also then add the required front matter/meta-data to the
> files to represent the page type. This can all be pretty automatic fed by a
> JSON document for guidance per sections and structures.
>
> I can also put together examples of this, and that is what I’m doing now.
> The end result should support what you are wanting Gj, and is something I
> think is important too. This will also address what Christian and I are
> talking about related to templates and the site layout which is what allows
> us to maintain this stuff easier. The SSG also makes it easy to have a
> static blog section we can contribute to. I think future content we should
> use MD for the base content, to provide an easier editing experience, but
> what we bring over initially will be the HTML fragments that will be
> plugged into the templates by the SSG. Those MD content files will make
> adding new articles and posts to the site fairly trivial IMO.
>
> Wade
>
>
> ===================
>
> Wade Chandler
> e: consult@wadechandler.com
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 2017, at 09:53, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Bernd Ruehlicke wrote:
> >
> > Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> >> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point
> of
> >> entry
> >
> >
> > Does that mean that everything on netbeans.org should redirect to
> > netbeans.apache.org?
> >
> > I don't know anything about that side of things -- i.e., if someone goes
> to
> > netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html, which is a URL that's all
> over
> > the web, at schools, universities, etc, should there simply be a redirect
> > from there to netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html -- or is
> > there a different/better solution?
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> In my opinion, it should work as before. E.g. we can check other IDEs
> and
> >> editors how they handle it.
> >>
> >> @Geertjan, this is the only content, what we need, yes. And than we
> should
> >> have a template around it with header, footer, nav and a common style
> for
> >> it.
> >>
> >>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2017 um 15:37 Uhr
> >>> Von: "Bernd Ruehlicke" <be...@eriksfiord.com>
> >>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>> Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> >> Discussion
> >>>
> >>> Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> >>> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point
> of
> >>> entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the
> Platform.
> >>> Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
> >>> never would see.
> >>>
> >>> On 5/2/2017 7:58 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >>>> will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
> >>>> developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
This was my point earlier in the thread about how we can bring the sites (platform.netbeans.org/www.netbeans.org <http://platform.netbeans.org/www.netbeans.org>) etc into the SSG based site. We can use the same path layout, and even have .html on the end to allow for links to continue to work. Then, later, when fully at Apache, we can then get the domain names to point to the same content under the hood. i.e. platform.netbeans.org <http://platform.netbeans.org/> would just be a CNAME for www.netbeans.org <http://www.netbeans.org/>, and all the content would be under one source tree. Then, once that happens, and if we moved things over that way, the old links will work. I think there are some things which perhaps are no longer useful, but we can worry about that later. Too, we can later work on some redirect scheme if we decide we need to.
I suggest we work on the document here https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/New+NetBeans+Web+Site+Planning <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/New+NetBeans+Web+Site+Planning>
I can write up how that will work with JBake, Gradle, and Scripts, for the above. The idea is to have Groovy scripts which strip out the base content specific sections of sites leaving the headers etc for the templates. Those different pages, based on the section of the site they are in, will be different page types, which means they link to different templates, allowing links on the sides of the pages in the templates to be context sensitive. The Groovy scripts (using JSoup to easily parse out HTML content) will also then add the required front matter/meta-data to the files to represent the page type. This can all be pretty automatic fed by a JSON document for guidance per sections and structures.
I can also put together examples of this, and that is what I’m doing now. The end result should support what you are wanting Gj, and is something I think is important too. This will also address what Christian and I are talking about related to templates and the site layout which is what allows us to maintain this stuff easier. The SSG also makes it easy to have a static blog section we can contribute to. I think future content we should use MD for the base content, to provide an easier editing experience, but what we bring over initially will be the HTML fragments that will be plugged into the templates by the SSG. Those MD content files will make adding new articles and posts to the site fairly trivial IMO.
Wade
===================
Wade Chandler
e: consult@wadechandler.com
> On May 2, 2017, at 09:53, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Bernd Ruehlicke wrote:
>
> Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
>> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
>> entry
>
>
> Does that mean that everything on netbeans.org should redirect to
> netbeans.apache.org?
>
> I don't know anything about that side of things -- i.e., if someone goes to
> netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html, which is a URL that's all over
> the web, at schools, universities, etc, should there simply be a redirect
> from there to netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html -- or is
> there a different/better solution?
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, it should work as before. E.g. we can check other IDEs and
>> editors how they handle it.
>>
>> @Geertjan, this is the only content, what we need, yes. And than we should
>> have a template around it with header, footer, nav and a common style for
>> it.
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2017 um 15:37 Uhr
>>> Von: "Bernd Ruehlicke" <be...@eriksfiord.com>
>>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
>> Discussion
>>>
>>> Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
>>> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
>>> entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the Platform.
>>> Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
>>> never would see.
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2017 7:58 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>>>> will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
>>>> developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users,
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Bernd Ruehlicke wrote:
Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
> entry
Does that mean that everything on netbeans.org should redirect to
netbeans.apache.org?
I don't know anything about that side of things -- i.e., if someone goes to
netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html, which is a URL that's all over
the web, at schools, universities, etc, should there simply be a redirect
from there to netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html -- or is
there a different/better solution?
Gj
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> In my opinion, it should work as before. E.g. we can check other IDEs and
> editors how they handle it.
>
> @Geertjan, this is the only content, what we need, yes. And than we should
> have a template around it with header, footer, nav and a common style for
> it.
>
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2017 um 15:37 Uhr
> > Von: "Bernd Ruehlicke" <be...@eriksfiord.com>
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> Discussion
> >
> > Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> > users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
> > entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the Platform.
> > Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
> > never would see.
> >
> > On 5/2/2017 7:58 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > > will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
> > > developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users,
> >
> >
>
Aw: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
Discussion
Posted by Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>.
In my opinion, it should work as before. E.g. we can check other IDEs and editors how they handle it.
@Geertjan, this is the only content, what we need, yes. And than we should have a template around it with header, footer, nav and a common style for it.
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2017 um 15:37 Uhr
> Von: "Bernd Ruehlicke" <be...@eriksfiord.com>
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
>
> Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
> entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the Platform.
> Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
> never would see.
>
> On 5/2/2017 7:58 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
> > developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users,
>
>
Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:37 PM Bernd Ruehlicke <
bernd.ruehlicke@eriksfiord.com> wrote:
> Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
> users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
> entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the Platform.
> Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
> never would see.
>
>
In my view I'd say the opposite. Losing the netbeans.org domain for the
primary user facing links would be a mistake in my opinion, given the huge
number of inbound links out there (yes, I know we can redirect, but it
doesn't mean we should). Having a site focused purely on development of
the IDE and platform at netbeans.apache.org as required doesn't mean we'd
split the community. Lots of organisations use multiple sub-domains /
domains for different purposes - the key is to integrate the layout/design
so that people can easily find what they're looking for, with header links
back-and-forth, etc. OpenOffice roughly has this approach by the look of
it.
My 5 cents. I'm old enough to remember when it was 2 cents. Inflation's a
killer! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Bernd Ruehlicke <be...@eriksfiord.com>.
Just my 5 cents: We cannot afford to split the community. All
users/developers should be using netbeans.apache.org as primary point of
entry. As now, there should be an area for IDE and one for the Platform.
Having both will allow users to possible explore new things they else
never would see.
On 5/2/2017 7:58 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
> developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users,
Re: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
http://netbeans.apache.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html
As a small temporary proof of concept experiment, I have copied the
NetBeans Quick Start tutorial in the above location.
Here's the original location on netbeans.org:
https://netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/quickstart.html
Now I understand better what I think we mean about the static site
generator etc, i.e., there's navigation and headers and footers and so on
that are currently missing in the netbeans.apache.org version of the
tutorial compared to the original.
The question is also whether netbeans.apache.org is going to be the same as
netbeans.org. I.e., will netbeans.apache.org be for Apache NetBeans
developers only or also for Apache NetBeans users, will it contain only
technical documents for developing NetBeans itself or will it also host
tutorials for NetBeans end users?
The same structure as at netbeans.org can be rebuilt at netbeans.apache.org,
that's something I can do after the documentation has officially been
donated as part of the 1st code donation.
Thoughts welcome.
Gj
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> OK, maybe it got stripped out.
>
> Anyway, as far as I know, no static site generator is currently used. If
> all we're interested in is adding headers and footers automatically, then I
> suggest that's not something to concern ourselves with initially.
>
> Let's just get the tutorials in place as they are, with their headers and
> footers included, and worry later about how to include them automatically.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
>> but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
>>
>> I see no attachment.
>>
>>
>> --emi
>>
>> On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
>> > but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
>> >
>> > Please note that if we use some kind of static site generator to
>> generate
>> > headers and footers, we'll first need to remove all the headers and
>> footers
>> > that are currently in the tutorials.
>> >
>> > I propose as a first step we (I, since I have access to all the
>> tutorials)
>> > move the tutorials into the new Apache website, i.e.,
>> netbeans.apache.org,
>> > and that after that we look at whether or not the headers and footers
>> need
>> > to be generated somehow.
>> >
>> > However, related to that, if we'll have netbeans.apache.org as well as
>> > netbeans.org, doesn't that means that the tutorials will be at
>> > netbeans.org and not at netbeans.apache.org?
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> We need a technology to not duplicate code at all. So have fixed
>> >> templates for header, nav and footer is a must have and a common
>> pattern to
>> >> not write the header, nav and footer each time. What happens if you
>> have to
>> >> change smth?
>> >> Maybe I miss smth or I misunderstood smth but this is what templates
>> are
>> >> made for. The static site generators are working the same AFAIK.
>> >>
>> >> > Gesendet: Montag, 01. Mai 2017 um 14:18 Uhr
>> >> > Von: "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
>> >> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> >> > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
>> >> Discussion
>> >> >
>> >> > Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the
>> NetBeans
>> >> > tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials,
>> they
>> >> > all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document
>> >> itself.
>> >> >
>> >> > I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this
>> >> discussion
>> >> > is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a
>> >> clear
>> >> > source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
>> >> >
>> >> > Gj
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Hi,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
>> >> > > Regards,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Eric
>> >> > > -----Message d'origine-----
>> >> > > De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
>> >> > > Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
>> >> > > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> >> > > Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
>> >> Discussion
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <
>> >> bdelacretaz@apache.org>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hi,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <
>> >> wadechandler@apache.org>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and
>> >> then
>> >> > > finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some
>> >> decisions....
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having
>> a
>> >> > > prototype to play with.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient
>> for
>> >> you
>> >> > > to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play
>> >> with it
>> >> > > and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to
>> be
>> >> sure
>> >> > > I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a
>> >> start.
>> >> > > I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts
>> to
>> >> > > massage in some content.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Thanks
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Wade
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
OK, maybe it got stripped out.
Anyway, as far as I know, no static site generator is currently used. If
all we're interested in is adding headers and footers automatically, then I
suggest that's not something to concern ourselves with initially.
Let's just get the tutorials in place as they are, with their headers and
footers included, and worry later about how to include them automatically.
Gj
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
> but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
>
> I see no attachment.
>
>
> --emi
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
> > but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
> >
> > Please note that if we use some kind of static site generator to generate
> > headers and footers, we'll first need to remove all the headers and
> footers
> > that are currently in the tutorials.
> >
> > I propose as a first step we (I, since I have access to all the
> tutorials)
> > move the tutorials into the new Apache website, i.e.,
> netbeans.apache.org,
> > and that after that we look at whether or not the headers and footers
> need
> > to be generated somehow.
> >
> > However, related to that, if we'll have netbeans.apache.org as well as
> > netbeans.org, doesn't that means that the tutorials will be at
> > netbeans.org and not at netbeans.apache.org?
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We need a technology to not duplicate code at all. So have fixed
> >> templates for header, nav and footer is a must have and a common
> pattern to
> >> not write the header, nav and footer each time. What happens if you
> have to
> >> change smth?
> >> Maybe I miss smth or I misunderstood smth but this is what templates are
> >> made for. The static site generators are working the same AFAIK.
> >>
> >> > Gesendet: Montag, 01. Mai 2017 um 14:18 Uhr
> >> > Von: "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
> >> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> >> Discussion
> >> >
> >> > Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the NetBeans
> >> > tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials,
> they
> >> > all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document
> >> itself.
> >> >
> >> > I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this
> >> discussion
> >> > is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a
> >> clear
> >> > source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
> >> >
> >> > Gj
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > >
> >> > > Eric
> >> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> >> > > De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
> >> > > Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
> >> > > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> > > Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> >> Discussion
> >> > >
> >> > > On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <
> >> bdelacretaz@apache.org>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <
> >> wadechandler@apache.org>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and
> >> then
> >> > > finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some
> >> decisions....
> >> > >
> >> > > I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having a
> >> > > prototype to play with.
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient
> for
> >> you
> >> > > to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play
> >> with it
> >> > > and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to
> be
> >> sure
> >> > > I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a
> >> start.
> >> > > I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts to
> >> > > massage in some content.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > >
> >> > > Wade
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
Re: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
I see no attachment.
--emi
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere,
> but exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
>
> Please note that if we use some kind of static site generator to generate
> headers and footers, we'll first need to remove all the headers and footers
> that are currently in the tutorials.
>
> I propose as a first step we (I, since I have access to all the tutorials)
> move the tutorials into the new Apache website, i.e., netbeans.apache.org,
> and that after that we look at whether or not the headers and footers need
> to be generated somehow.
>
> However, related to that, if we'll have netbeans.apache.org as well as
> netbeans.org, doesn't that means that the tutorials will be at
> netbeans.org and not at netbeans.apache.org?
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>> We need a technology to not duplicate code at all. So have fixed
>> templates for header, nav and footer is a must have and a common pattern to
>> not write the header, nav and footer each time. What happens if you have to
>> change smth?
>> Maybe I miss smth or I misunderstood smth but this is what templates are
>> made for. The static site generators are working the same AFAIK.
>>
>> > Gesendet: Montag, 01. Mai 2017 um 14:18 Uhr
>> > Von: "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
>> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
>> Discussion
>> >
>> > Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the NetBeans
>> > tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials, they
>> > all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document
>> itself.
>> >
>> > I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this
>> discussion
>> > is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a
>> clear
>> > source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > > Eric
>> > > -----Message d'origine-----
>> > > De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
>> > > Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
>> > > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> > > Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
>> Discussion
>> > >
>> > > On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <
>> bdelacretaz@apache.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <
>> wadechandler@apache.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and
>> then
>> > > finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some
>> decisions....
>> > >
>> > > I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having a
>> > > prototype to play with.
>> > >
>> > > I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient for
>> you
>> > > to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play
>> with it
>> > > and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to be
>> sure
>> > > I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a
>> start.
>> > > I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts to
>> > > massage in some content.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > > Wade
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Attached is one of the NetBeans tutorials, not generated from anywhere, but
exactly as it is worked on by the technical writers at Oracle.
Please note that if we use some kind of static site generator to generate
headers and footers, we'll first need to remove all the headers and footers
that are currently in the tutorials.
I propose as a first step we (I, since I have access to all the tutorials)
move the tutorials into the new Apache website, i.e., netbeans.apache.org,
and that after that we look at whether or not the headers and footers need
to be generated somehow.
However, related to that, if we'll have netbeans.apache.org as well as
netbeans.org, doesn't that means that the tutorials will be at netbeans.org
and not at netbeans.apache.org?
Gj
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> We need a technology to not duplicate code at all. So have fixed templates
> for header, nav and footer is a must have and a common pattern to not write
> the header, nav and footer each time. What happens if you have to change
> smth?
> Maybe I miss smth or I misunderstood smth but this is what templates are
> made for. The static site generators are working the same AFAIK.
>
> > Gesendet: Montag, 01. Mai 2017 um 14:18 Uhr
> > Von: "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> Discussion
> >
> > Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the NetBeans
> > tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials, they
> > all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document
> itself.
> >
> > I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this
> discussion
> > is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a
> clear
> > source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
> > > Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
> > > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
> Discussion
> > >
> > > On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <
> wadechandler@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and
> then
> > > finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some
> decisions....
> > >
> > > I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having a
> > > prototype to play with.
> > >
> > > I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient for
> you
> > > to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play
> with it
> > > and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to be
> sure
> > > I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a
> start.
> > > I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts to
> > > massage in some content.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Wade
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Aw: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan;
Discussion
Posted by Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>.
We need a technology to not duplicate code at all. So have fixed templates for header, nav and footer is a must have and a common pattern to not write the header, nav and footer each time. What happens if you have to change smth?
Maybe I miss smth or I misunderstood smth but this is what templates are made for. The static site generators are working the same AFAIK.
> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Mai 2017 um 14:18 Uhr
> Von: "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
>
> Do we need a static site generator at all? When I look at the NetBeans
> tutorials, i.e., at the source documents of the NetBeans tutorials, they
> all have their headers and footers etc hardcoded into the document itself.
>
> I prefer simplicity over pretty much everything else -- and this discussion
> is taking very long without much movement. All I believe we need is a clear
> source structure and then the tutorials can simply be copied over.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Eric Barboni <sk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > If possible, I will be happy to help or test even in early stage.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Eric
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Wade Chandler [mailto:wadechandler@apache.org]
> > Envoyé : jeudi 27 avril 2017 15:05
> > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Objet : Re: NetBeans Apache Site Static Site Generator and Plan; Discussion
> >
> > On Apr 27, 2017 8:17 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > ...I bring this up to have a conversation about it if needed, and then
> > finally after that, to vote to make sure we have made some decisions....
> >
> > I think it's very difficult to agree on such things without having a
> > prototype to play with.
> >
> > I don't know how much work that is but it might be more efficient for you
> > to create a prototype of what you envision so that people can play with it
> > and challenge assumptions based on concrete cases.
> >
> >
> > Indeed, and that is the next step I am working on, but I wanted to be sure
> > I use my tight time wisely, and nobody would vehemently appose as a start.
> > I am working on a Gradle build with JBake and some Groovy scripts to
> > massage in some content.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Wade
> >
> >
>