Re: New jar dependency for Cactus

["Daniel F. Savarese" <df...@savarese.org>]

In message <01...@vizzavi.fr.corp.vizzavi.net>, "Vince
nt Massol" writes:
>I'd like to ask if anyone sees a problem for using AspectJ
>(http://www.aspectj.org) with Cactus ? More specifically the license is MPL
>(http://aspectj.org/servlets/AJSite?channel=download&subChannel=license). Is
>that a problem ? I don't believe so, but just wanted to be sure.

I don't think there's a problem.  Redistributing the support libraries
doesn't appear to conflict, but Jon, Sam, and others know better than I
what licenses are compatible and which aren't.  Is there a list of
compatible licenses somewhere on www.apache.org (or did I just
accidentally volunteer to put one together)?

>If it works, I think a lot of jakarta projects may find aspectj very useful.

The main issue for me up until recently has been that AspectJ has been 
changing too fast to rely on for significant development purposes.  Now 
that it's stabilized, my main concern is with efficiency (how good is
the generated byte-code, how intrusive is the use of reflection, etc.).
So I'd tend to use AOP with AspectJ for testing, where I can compile
without aspects for production use.  Using it in Cactus is probably an
excellent fit.  I just wonder how ready Java programmers are to adopt AOP 
at this stage.  If you use AOP under the covers in a development library,
users of the software aren't going to care.  But if the development library
includes an aspect library requiring the use of the AspectJ compiler, I
wonder if programmers will shy away from it because of the additional
learning curve and its "non-standard" nature.  At any rate, it will be
interesting to see how AOP makes its way into Java, C++, and other OOP
languages over time.

daniel



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Re: New jar dependency for Cactus

[Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel F. Savarese" <df...@savarese.org>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: New jar dependency for Cactus


>
> In message <01...@vizzavi.fr.corp.vizzavi.net>,
"Vince
> nt Massol" writes:
> >I'd like to ask if anyone sees a problem for using AspectJ
> >(http://www.aspectj.org) with Cactus ? More specifically the license is
MPL
> >(http://aspectj.org/servlets/AJSite?channel=download&subChannel=license).
Is
> >that a problem ? I don't believe so, but just wanted to be sure.
>
> I don't think there's a problem.  Redistributing the support libraries
> doesn't appear to conflict, but Jon, Sam, and others know better than I
> what licenses are compatible and which aren't.  Is there a list of
> compatible licenses somewhere on www.apache.org (or did I just
> accidentally volunteer to put one together)?
>
> >If it works, I think a lot of jakarta projects may find aspectj very
useful.
>
> The main issue for me up until recently has been that AspectJ has been
> changing too fast to rely on for significant development purposes.  Now
> that it's stabilized, my main concern is with efficiency (how good is
> the generated byte-code, how intrusive is the use of reflection, etc.).
> So I'd tend to use AOP with AspectJ for testing, where I can compile
> without aspects for production use.  Using it in Cactus is probably an
> excellent fit.  I just wonder how ready Java programmers are to adopt AOP
> at this stage.  If you use AOP under the covers in a development library,
> users of the software aren't going to care.  But if the development
library
> includes an aspect library requiring the use of the AspectJ compiler, I
> wonder if programmers will shy away from it because of the additional
> learning curve and its "non-standard" nature.  At any rate, it will be
> interesting to see how AOP makes its way into Java, C++, and other OOP
> languages over time.
>

Indeed, I agree with all this. I'd like to try it on Cactus for :
- internal stuff: logging entries/exits of methods without having to write
log in each method,
- non-intrusively providing runtime check of Cactus setup : verify if
correct jars are on the classpath, verify properties files, ...

As you see, the initial goal is to try it non-critical things and see how
well it works and how easy to use. There is also a steep learning curve as
it is a different way of thinking. After that, as you have pointed out, I'd
like to use it to help write unit test cases (not sure exactly how yet ...
:) ).

One idea that I have for now is to use AOP to complement testing of
applications :
- we have unit testing with junit/cactus,
- we have functional testing with httpunit or others
- we are missing pattern testing ! And this could be done with aspectj. What
is pattern testing ? It will test the following kind of things :
  - verify that any business method that is called as actually passed
through a controller (MVC model) first,
  - verify that no JDBC code is used anywhere in the code except in such
class/method,
  - verify threading,
  - verify that log4j is used through a wrapper,
  - ...

-Vincent

> daniel
>
>
>
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>


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Re: mailing list problem ?

[Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>]

Pier Fumagalli at pier@betaversion.org wrote:

> Vincent Massol at vmassol@octo.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I have sent 5 mails to the cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org mailing list
>> yesterday and they have not yet appeared on the list (after more than 15
>> hours). Is there any problem currently with the jakarta mail server ?
> 
> Yes... There are some problems, but I'm working to fix them moving the
> Jakarta lists off to another server one by one (so that Daedalus can catch
> up on the looooong backlog)... This message should be the first one served
> by the new server (hopefully, since general has been moved with a technique
> I'm not 100% confident about)...

Skepticism never works... :) Actually, the list was moved safely :) And now
all headers should be fine as well...

    Pier


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Re: mailing list problem ?

[Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>]

Vincent Massol at vmassol@octo.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have sent 5 mails to the cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org mailing list
> yesterday and they have not yet appeared on the list (after more than 15
> hours). Is there any problem currently with the jakarta mail server ?

Yes... There are some problems, but I'm working to fix them moving the
Jakarta lists off to another server one by one (so that Daedalus can catch
up on the looooong backlog)... This message should be the first one served
by the new server (hopefully, since general has been moved with a technique
I'm not 100% confident about)...

    Pier


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mailing list problem ?

[Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com>]

Hi,

I have sent 5 mails to the cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org mailing list
yesterday and they have not yet appeared on the list (after more than 15
hours). Is there any problem currently with the jakarta mail server ?

Thanks
-Vincent


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