Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>]

Hi fellow Shindig Devs,

I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board report
(below).

As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can certainly
be seen in our reports to the board [1].

If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to keep
everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.

-Ryan

[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>


WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
 Attic; and

WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
due to inactivity;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
project is hereby terminated; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
Project; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
hereby terminated; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>]

Doug, I share your sadness, it was fun while it lasted.  We appreciate all
your work!
On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM Davies,Douglas <da...@oclc.org> wrote:

> Super big frowny face.
>
> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> >
> > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> report
> > (below).
> >
> > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> certainly
> > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> >
> > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> keep
> > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > Attic; and
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > due to inactivity;
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > hereby terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

["Davies,Douglas" <da...@oclc.org>]

Super big frowny face.

> On Oct 7, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> 
> I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board report
> (below).
> 
> As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can certainly
> be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> 
> If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to keep
> everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> 
> 
> WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> Attic; and
> 
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> due to inactivity;
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> Project; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> hereby terminated; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

I have met some good friends when working with Apache Shindig project.

Thanks all for the hard work and hope to see and work with you again
in other projects.

- Henry

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you all, really helpful.
>
> In worst scenario if it closed,
> then lets move it to github.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ryan,
>>
>> thanks for the response - points taken.  Let's see what the future holds :)
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email.  In general I agree with
>> > what you are saying.  Some more comments inline.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos <
>> > chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with
>> > everyone
>> > > in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this
>> > to
>> > > happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of support from the
>> dev
>> > > team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of
>> awareness
>> > > regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to
>> the
>> > > gadgets side of things.
>> > >
>> > > I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to
>> > convince
>> > > people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with
>> > pluggable
>> > > apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have stated in the
>> > past
>> > > this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this
>> > > technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the
>> > results.
>> > > During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had
>> > > always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to
>> > > work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope)
>> > > marketplaces as well.
>> > >
>> > > My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long
>> > > time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the
>> potential
>> > > it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can
>> > work
>> > > independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work
>> > > together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts.  This has been
>> my
>> > > personal experience so far anyways.  Having said that, I've always felt
>> > > that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in
>> > functionality
>> > > lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.
>> > >
>> > > Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding
>> its
>> > > usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, Atlassian
>> and
>> > > others with very popular products have also been using this technology
>> > as a
>> > > core component of their infrastructure until now.  Although Google who
>> > > open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of
>> > their
>> > > products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps
>> it
>> > > alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been
>> > hosting
>> > > the official Gadgets API site for a long time now.  One of the puzzling
>> > > questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who
>> > kept
>> > > the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and
>> > > support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through
>> real-life
>> > > use cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion
>> that
>> > > these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig
>> > > components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
>> > > This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their
>> > products
>> > > shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig
>> > > out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the
>> time
>> > > and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their
>> > gadget
>> > > containers.
>> >
>> >
>> > > I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the
>> > framework
>> > > most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to
>> > > offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the
>> > > maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then
>> > > this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion.
>> > I
>> > > personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when
>> it
>> > > comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a
>> > > couple for starters.  After I received this mail today morning, I had a
>> > > quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I
>> > > found none.  Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned
>> > > then?  Are composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I
>> > don't
>> > > think so.
>> > >
>> > > I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far,
>> > although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web
>> components"
>> > that sounded like they would do something similar.  I never really looked
>> > into it though.  I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes
>> to
>> > allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform.
>> >
>> >
>> > > It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned
>> > > companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the
>> infrastructure
>> > > they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something
>> > new?
>> > > Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different
>> > > perspective?
>> > >
>> > There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and
>> > used it in well established products that won't be going away any time
>> > soon.  Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not.  And you
>> > are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or
>> drive
>> > features back into it.  When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I
>> > don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code
>> base
>> > and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source
>> > project.  Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project
>> > as well.  However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort
>> in
>> > Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to
>> what
>> > the future holds.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology
>> > deserves
>> > > a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader
>> developer
>> > > audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is through a
>> > > modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial
>> > material
>> > > and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub.
>> My
>> > > personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the
>> > > standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against
>> formal
>> > > processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school
>> > stuff
>> > > rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose
>> interest.
>> > > On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple
>> > as
>> > > creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of
>> > > ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker
>> containers
>> > > to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I
>> guess
>> > > reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences.  Most of us
>> are
>> > > already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work
>> > > with others and start building a community?
>> > >
>> > We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not
>> meet
>> > until the 21st.  If there is enough interest from the community Shindig
>> can
>> > live on.  However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I
>> > just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore.
>> > If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain
>> > an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself.  (We can
>> > move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project).  I guess
>> > that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest
>> or
>> > > potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a
>> > stable
>> > > framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech business
>> > > doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is not
>> > > irreversible.
>> > >
>> > > Kind regards,
>> > > Chris
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Ryan,
>> > > >
>> > > > This is really sad news.
>> > > > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me
>> > lot.
>> > > >
>> > > > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues
>> at
>> > > the
>> > > > moment.
>> > > >
>> > > > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So
>> will
>> > > > there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may
>> be
>> > > your
>> > > > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
>> > > >
>> > > > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy
>> > switching
>> > > > between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites
>> are
>> > > > their interest But history repeats itself.
>> > > >
>> > > > lets see what comes next.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thank you
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Dear All,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of
>> > several
>> > > of
>> > > > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
>> > > > exactly
>> > > > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly
>> > the
>> > > > > reason for the lack of user support requests!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back
>> > in
>> > > > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing
>> > the
>> > > > > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue
>> its
>> > > use
>> > > > > well into the future.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Kind regards,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Darren
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
>> > > > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
>> > > > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
>> > > > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
>> > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
>> > already
>> > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
>> board
>> > > > report
>> > > > > (below).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
>> > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
>> > > > certainly
>> > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure
>> to
>> > > > keep
>> > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
>> > Thanks.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Ryan
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [1]
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
>> > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>> > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
>> > > > private@shindig.apache.org
>> > > > > <javascript:;>>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
>> DirectMemory
>> > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
>> > > Attic;
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >
>> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
>> > interest
>> > > > of
>> > > > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to
>> > > inactivity;
>> > > > >
>> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is
>> > > hereby
>> > > > > terminated; and be it further
>> > > > >
>> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight
>> > > over
>> > > > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it
>> > further
>> > > > >
>> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
>> > hereby
>> > > > > terminated; and be it further
>> > > > >
>> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Chris Spiliotopoulos
>> > >
>> > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
>> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
>> > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>>
>> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Thank you all, really helpful.

In worst scenario if it closed,
then lets move it to github.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ryan,
>
> thanks for the response - points taken.  Let's see what the future holds :)
>
> Best regards
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email.  In general I agree with
> > what you are saying.  Some more comments inline.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> > chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with
> > everyone
> > > in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this
> > to
> > > happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of support from the
> dev
> > > team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of
> awareness
> > > regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to
> the
> > > gadgets side of things.
> > >
> > > I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to
> > convince
> > > people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with
> > pluggable
> > > apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have stated in the
> > past
> > > this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this
> > > technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the
> > results.
> > > During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had
> > > always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to
> > > work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope)
> > > marketplaces as well.
> > >
> > > My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long
> > > time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the
> potential
> > > it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can
> > work
> > > independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work
> > > together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts.  This has been
> my
> > > personal experience so far anyways.  Having said that, I've always felt
> > > that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in
> > functionality
> > > lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.
> > >
> > > Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding
> its
> > > usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, Atlassian
> and
> > > others with very popular products have also been using this technology
> > as a
> > > core component of their infrastructure until now.  Although Google who
> > > open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of
> > their
> > > products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps
> it
> > > alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been
> > hosting
> > > the official Gadgets API site for a long time now.  One of the puzzling
> > > questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who
> > kept
> > > the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and
> > > support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through
> real-life
> > > use cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion
> that
> > > these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig
> > > components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
> > > This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their
> > products
> > > shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig
> > > out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the
> time
> > > and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their
> > gadget
> > > containers.
> >
> >
> > > I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the
> > framework
> > > most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to
> > > offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the
> > > maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then
> > > this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion.
> > I
> > > personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when
> it
> > > comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a
> > > couple for starters.  After I received this mail today morning, I had a
> > > quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I
> > > found none.  Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned
> > > then?  Are composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I
> > don't
> > > think so.
> > >
> > > I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far,
> > although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web
> components"
> > that sounded like they would do something similar.  I never really looked
> > into it though.  I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes
> to
> > allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform.
> >
> >
> > > It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned
> > > companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the
> infrastructure
> > > they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something
> > new?
> > > Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different
> > > perspective?
> > >
> > There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and
> > used it in well established products that won't be going away any time
> > soon.  Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not.  And you
> > are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or
> drive
> > features back into it.  When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I
> > don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code
> base
> > and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source
> > project.  Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project
> > as well.  However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort
> in
> > Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to
> what
> > the future holds.
> >
> > >
> > > Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology
> > deserves
> > > a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader
> developer
> > > audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is through a
> > > modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial
> > material
> > > and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub.
> My
> > > personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the
> > > standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against
> formal
> > > processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school
> > stuff
> > > rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose
> interest.
> > > On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple
> > as
> > > creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of
> > > ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker
> containers
> > > to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I
> guess
> > > reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences.  Most of us
> are
> > > already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work
> > > with others and start building a community?
> > >
> > We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not
> meet
> > until the 21st.  If there is enough interest from the community Shindig
> can
> > live on.  However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I
> > just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore.
> > If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain
> > an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself.  (We can
> > move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project).  I guess
> > that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going.
> >
> > >
> > > Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest
> or
> > > potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a
> > stable
> > > framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech business
> > > doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is not
> > > irreversible.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Ryan,
> > > >
> > > > This is really sad news.
> > > > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me
> > lot.
> > > >
> > > > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues
> at
> > > the
> > > > moment.
> > > >
> > > > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So
> will
> > > > there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may
> be
> > > your
> > > > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
> > > >
> > > > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy
> > switching
> > > > between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites
> are
> > > > their interest But history repeats itself.
> > > >
> > > > lets see what comes next.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear All,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of
> > several
> > > of
> > > > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
> > > > exactly
> > > > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly
> > the
> > > > > reason for the lack of user support requests!
> > > > >
> > > > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back
> > in
> > > > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing
> > the
> > > > > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue
> its
> > > use
> > > > > well into the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Darren
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> > > > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> > > > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> > already
> > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
> board
> > > > report
> > > > > (below).
> > > > >
> > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months
> and
> > > the
> > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > > certainly
> > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure
> to
> > > > keep
> > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> > > > private@shindig.apache.org
> > > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> DirectMemory
> > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > Attic;
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > interest
> > > > of
> > > > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to
> > > inactivity;
> > > > >
> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is
> > > hereby
> > > > > terminated; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight
> > > over
> > > > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it
> > further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > hereby
> > > > > terminated; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> > >
> > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Chris Spiliotopoulos <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi Ryan,

thanks for the response - points taken.  Let's see what the future holds :)

Best regards

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email.  In general I agree with
> what you are saying.  Some more comments inline.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with
> everyone
> > in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this
> to
> > happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of support from the dev
> > team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of awareness
> > regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to the
> > gadgets side of things.
> >
> > I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to
> convince
> > people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with
> pluggable
> > apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have stated in the
> past
> > this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this
> > technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the
> results.
> > During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had
> > always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to
> > work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope)
> > marketplaces as well.
> >
> > My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long
> > time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the potential
> > it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can
> work
> > independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work
> > together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts.  This has been my
> > personal experience so far anyways.  Having said that, I've always felt
> > that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in
> functionality
> > lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.
> >
> > Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding its
> > usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, Atlassian and
> > others with very popular products have also been using this technology
> as a
> > core component of their infrastructure until now.  Although Google who
> > open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of
> their
> > products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps it
> > alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been
> hosting
> > the official Gadgets API site for a long time now.  One of the puzzling
> > questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who
> kept
> > the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and
> > support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through real-life
> > use cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion that
> > these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig
> > components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
> > This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their
> products
> > shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig
> > out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the time
> > and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their
> gadget
> > containers.
>
>
> > I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the
> framework
> > most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to
> > offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the
> > maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then
> > this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion.
> I
> > personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when it
> > comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a
> > couple for starters.  After I received this mail today morning, I had a
> > quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I
> > found none.  Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned
> > then?  Are composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I
> don't
> > think so.
> >
> > I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far,
> although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web components"
> that sounded like they would do something similar.  I never really looked
> into it though.  I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes to
> allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform.
>
>
> > It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned
> > companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the infrastructure
> > they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something
> new?
> > Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different
> > perspective?
> >
> There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and
> used it in well established products that won't be going away any time
> soon.  Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not.  And you
> are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or drive
> features back into it.  When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I
> don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code base
> and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source
> project.  Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project
> as well.  However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort in
> Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to what
> the future holds.
>
> >
> > Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology
> deserves
> > a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader developer
> > audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is through a
> > modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial
> material
> > and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub.  My
> > personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the
> > standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against formal
> > processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school
> stuff
> > rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose interest.
> > On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple
> as
> > creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of
> > ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker containers
> > to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I guess
> > reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences.  Most of us are
> > already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work
> > with others and start building a community?
> >
> We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not meet
> until the 21st.  If there is enough interest from the community Shindig can
> live on.  However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I
> just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore.
> If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain
> an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself.  (We can
> move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project).  I guess
> that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going.
>
> >
> > Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest or
> > potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a
> stable
> > framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech business
> > doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is not
> > irreversible.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ryan,
> > >
> > > This is really sad news.
> > > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me
> lot.
> > >
> > > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues at
> > the
> > > moment.
> > >
> > > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So will
> > > there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may be
> > your
> > > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
> > >
> > > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy
> switching
> > > between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites are
> > > their interest But history repeats itself.
> > >
> > > lets see what comes next.
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear All,
> > > >
> > > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of
> several
> > of
> > > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
> > > exactly
> > > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly
> the
> > > > reason for the lack of user support requests!
> > > >
> > > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back
> in
> > > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing
> the
> > > > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue its
> > use
> > > > well into the future.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Darren
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> > > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> > > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > >
> > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> already
> > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> > > report
> > > > (below).
> > > >
> > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> > the
> > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > certainly
> > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> > > keep
> > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > -Ryan
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> > > private@shindig.apache.org
> > > > <javascript:;>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > Attic;
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> interest
> > > of
> > > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to
> > inactivity;
> > > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is
> > hereby
> > > > terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight
> > over
> > > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it
> further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> hereby
> > > > terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> >
> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> >
>



-- 
Chris Spiliotopoulos

Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
<https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

AW: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[René Peinl <re...@hof-university.de>]

Dear Shindig Community,
I'm also a bit sorry about the project closing, but also see it as a chance for something new. We tried to contribute code back to Shindig several times and never made it. Our last effort just got stuck in the review process with no arguments why it didn't make it into the main trunk (for over one year now). 
Our contributions are already published on Github. 
https://github.com/iisys-hof 
Once Shindig is officially buried, we will extend the code on Github, so that it is including a full Shindig with all our modifications so that anybody can clone, compile and run it. Currently it is a bit hard to put things from the Shindig repository and our Github repository together. That will be easier then. We didn't do a public fork yet, since we did not want to weaken the official project. 

I wish you all the very best and am also keen on seeing the first results from the W3C social web working group. Unfortunately, it seems it is again a rather closed "inner circle" of people. I applied for an invitation as an external "expert" (as they call it), got one inquiry, which I promptly answered and never heard anything about it since then (3 months ago). That is not my understanding of an open, community-driven process.

Regards
René 


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2015 15:08
An: dev@shindig.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email.  In general I agree with what you are saying.  Some more comments inline.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos < chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with 
> everyone in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone 
> expected this to happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of 
> support from the dev team - this had always been superb - but rather 
> due to lack of awareness regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking 
> technology and I'm referring to the gadgets side of things.
>
> I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to 
> convince people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system 
> with pluggable apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have 
> stated in the past this had always been a steep curve as very few 
> people are aware of this technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the results.
> During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had 
> always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it 
> to work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope) 
> marketplaces as well.
>
> My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a 
> long time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the 
> potential it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app 
> devs can work independently from platform devs but eventually 
> everything can work together a a whole with minimum orchestration 
> efforts.  This has been my personal experience so far anyways.  Having 
> said that, I've always felt that the Shindig project had always been 
> to large / broad in functionality lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.
>
> Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding 
> its usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, 
> Atlassian and others with very popular products have also been using 
> this technology as a core component of their infrastructure until now.  
> Although Google who open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively 
> deprecates some of their products who had major touch points with the 
> gadgets spec, still keeps it alive in products like Gmail, Google 
> apps, etc plus they have been hosting the official Gadgets API site 
> for a long time now.  One of the puzzling questions though is why 
> these companies (apart from the IBM people who kept the project 
> running) were never openly involved with the promotion and support of 
> the tech in order to reach broader audiences through real-life use 
> cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion that 
> these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
> This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their 
> products shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by 
> Shindig out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive 
> at the time and he told me that they wrote their own security layer 
> around their gadget containers.


> I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the 
> framework most integrators are more than ok with the standard features 
> it has to offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect 
> to the maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket 
> activities then this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has 
> become out of fashion.  I personally think that gadget tech has a 
> future and a lot to offer when it comes down to specific use cases - 
> dashboards and marketplaces being a couple for starters.  After I 
> received this mail today morning, I had a quick search on the web to 
> see if there are any real alternatives but I found none.  Has the 
> plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned then?  Are 
> composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I don't think so.
>
> I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far,
although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web components"
that sounded like they would do something similar.  I never really looked into it though.  I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes to allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform.


> It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned 
> companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the 
> infrastructure they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something new?
> Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different 
> perspective?
>
There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and used it in well established products that won't be going away any time soon.  Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not.  And you are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or drive features back into it.  When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code base and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source project.  Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project as well.  However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort in Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to what the future holds.

>
> Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology 
> deserves a better luck through proper communication and reach to 
> broader developer audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is 
> through a modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / 
> tutorial material and transfer to a more popular collaboration 
> environment like GitHub.  My personal experience for doing this sort 
> of thing last year through the standard Apache process led to a 
> dead-end - I have nothing against formal processes, but when things 
> are more about bureaucracy and old-school stuff rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose interest.
> On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very 
> simple as creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a 
> number of ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like 
> Docker containers to start sharing our experiences then we would have 
> more success I guess reaching out to younger developers and diverse 
> audiences.  Most of us are already doing this for our companies, why 
> not share the foundation work with others and start building a community?
>
We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not meet until the 21st.  If there is enough interest from the community Shindig can live on.  However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore.
If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself.  (We can move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project).  I guess that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going.

>
> Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest 
> or potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have 
> a stable framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech 
> business doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is 
> not irreversible.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > This is really sad news.
> > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me lot.
> >
> > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues 
> > at
> the
> > moment.
> >
> > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So 
> > will there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and 
> > may be
> your
> > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
> >
> > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy 
> > switching between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets 
> > based sites are their interest But history repeats itself.
> >
> > lets see what comes next.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of 
> > > several
> of
> > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
> > exactly
> > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's 
> > > partly the reason for the lack of user support requests!
> > >
> > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues 
> > > back in
> > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
> > >
> > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears 
> > > developing the project - we truly value what you have created and 
> > > will continue its
> use
> > > well into the future.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Darren
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > >
> > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > >
> > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to 
> > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have 
> > > already informed the Apache board about the termination in this 
> > > months board
> > report
> > > (below).
> > >
> > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in 
> > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months 
> > > and
> the
> > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > certainly
> > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > >
> > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure 
> > > to
> > keep
> > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> > > [1] 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org 
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> > private@shindig.apache.org
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache 
> > > DirectMemory project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the 
> > > project to the
> Attic;
> > > and
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best 
> > > interest
> > of
> > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to
> inactivity;
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is
> hereby
> > > terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with 
> > > oversight
> over
> > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it 
> > > further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is 
> > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter 
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>]

Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email.  In general I agree with
what you are saying.  Some more comments inline.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with everyone
> in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this to
> happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of support from the dev
> team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of awareness
> regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to the
> gadgets side of things.
>
> I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to convince
> people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with pluggable
> apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have stated in the past
> this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this
> technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the results.
> During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had
> always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to
> work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope)
> marketplaces as well.
>
> My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long
> time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the potential
> it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can work
> independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work
> together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts.  This has been my
> personal experience so far anyways.  Having said that, I've always felt
> that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in functionality
> lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.
>
> Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding its
> usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, Atlassian and
> others with very popular products have also been using this technology as a
> core component of their infrastructure until now.  Although Google who
> open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of their
> products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps it
> alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been hosting
> the official Gadgets API site for a long time now.  One of the puzzling
> questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who kept
> the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and
> support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through real-life
> use cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion that
> these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig
> components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
> This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their products
> shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig
> out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the time
> and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their gadget
> containers.


> I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the framework
> most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to
> offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the
> maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then
> this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion.  I
> personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when it
> comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a
> couple for starters.  After I received this mail today morning, I had a
> quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I
> found none.  Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned
> then?  Are composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I don't
> think so.
>
> I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far,
although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web components"
that sounded like they would do something similar.  I never really looked
into it though.  I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes to
allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform.


> It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned
> companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the infrastructure
> they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something new?
> Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different
> perspective?
>
There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and
used it in well established products that won't be going away any time
soon.  Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not.  And you
are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or drive
features back into it.  When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I
don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code base
and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source
project.  Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project
as well.  However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort in
Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to what
the future holds.

>
> Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology deserves
> a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader developer
> audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is through a
> modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial material
> and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub.  My
> personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the
> standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against formal
> processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school stuff
> rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose interest.
> On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple as
> creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of
> ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker containers
> to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I guess
> reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences.  Most of us are
> already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work
> with others and start building a community?
>
We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not meet
until the 21st.  If there is enough interest from the community Shindig can
live on.  However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I
just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore.
If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain
an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself.  (We can
move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project).  I guess
that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going.

>
> Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest or
> potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a stable
> framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech business
> doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is not
> irreversible.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > This is really sad news.
> > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me lot.
> >
> > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues at
> the
> > moment.
> >
> > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So will
> > there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may be
> your
> > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
> >
> > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy switching
> > between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites are
> > their interest But history repeats itself.
> >
> > lets see what comes next.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of several
> of
> > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
> > exactly
> > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly the
> > > reason for the lack of user support requests!
> > >
> > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back in
> > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
> > >
> > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing the
> > > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue its
> use
> > > well into the future.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Darren
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > >
> > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > >
> > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> > report
> > > (below).
> > >
> > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> the
> > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > certainly
> > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > >
> > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> > keep
> > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> > > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> > private@shindig.apache.org
> > > <javascript:;>>
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> Attic;
> > > and
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best interest
> > of
> > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to
> inactivity;
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is
> hereby
> > > terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight
> over
> > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is hereby
> > > terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Chris Spiliotopoulos <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with everyone
in this thread.  Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this to
happen at some point.  Of course not due to lack of support from the dev
team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of awareness
regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to the
gadgets side of things.

I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to convince
people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with pluggable
apps either in-house or 3rd party.  Of course as I have stated in the past
this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this
technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the results.
During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had
always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to
work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope)
marketplaces as well.

My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long
time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the potential
it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can work
independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work
together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts.  This has been my
personal experience so far anyways.  Having said that, I've always felt
that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in functionality
lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts.

Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding its
usefulness and future  is that major companies like Google, Atlassian and
others with very popular products have also been using this technology as a
core component of their infrastructure until now.  Although Google who
open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of their
products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps it
alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been hosting
the official Gadgets API site for a long time now.  One of the puzzling
questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who kept
the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and
support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through real-life
use cases?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion that
these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig
components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements.
This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their products
shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig
out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the time
and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their gadget
containers.

I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the framework
most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to
offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the
maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then
this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion.  I
personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when it
comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a
couple for starters.  After I received this mail today morning, I had a
quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I
found none.  Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned
then?  Are composable  web apps like dashboards coming to an end?  I don't
think so.

It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned
companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the infrastructure
they have invested on for years.  Will they be switching to something new?
Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different
perspective?

Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology deserves
a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader developer
audiences.  The only way I can see that happening is through a
modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial material
and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub.  My
personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the
standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against formal
processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school stuff
rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose interest.
On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple as
creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of
ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker containers
to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I guess
reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences.  Most of us are
already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work
with others and start building a community?

Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest or
potential.  In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a stable
framework in our hands.  But most of the people in the tech business
doesn't know such a thing exists.  And I'm sure that this is not
irreversible.

Kind regards,
Chris



On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ryan,
>
> This is really sad news.
> I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me lot.
>
> As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues at the
> moment.
>
> Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So will
> there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may be your
> last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.
>
> I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy switching
> between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites are
> their interest But history repeats itself.
>
> lets see what comes next.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of several of
> > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does
> exactly
> > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly the
> > reason for the lack of user support requests!
> >
> > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back in
> > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
> >
> > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing the
> > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue its use
> > well into the future.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> >
> > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> >
> > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> report
> > (below).
> >
> > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> certainly
> > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> >
> > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> keep
> > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> private@shindig.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>>
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the  Attic;
> > and
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best interest
> of
> > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to inactivity;
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is hereby
> > terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight over
> > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is hereby
> > terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Chris Spiliotopoulos

Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
<https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Hi Ryan,

This is really sad news.
I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me lot.

As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues at the
moment.

Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So will
there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may be your
last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig.

I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy switching
between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites are
their interest But history repeats itself.

lets see what comes next.

Thank you


On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of several of
> our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does exactly
> what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly the
> reason for the lack of user support requests!
>
> You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back in
> 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!
>
> Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing the
> project - we truly value what you have created and will continue its use
> well into the future.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Darren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>]
> Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
> To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>
> Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>
> Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>
> I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board report
> (below).
>
> As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can certainly
> be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>
> If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to keep
> everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
>
> -Ryan
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <private@shindig.apache.org
> <javascript:;>>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the  Attic;
> and
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best interest of
> the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to inactivity;
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is hereby
> terminated; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight over
> the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is hereby
> terminated; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>
>
>

RE: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>]

Dear All,

This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of several of our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does exactly what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly the reason for the lack of user support requests!

You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back in 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig!

Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing the project - we truly value what you have created and will continue its use well into the future.

Kind regards,

Darren


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxter85@apache.org] 
Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32
To: dev@shindig.apache.org
Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

Hi fellow Shindig Devs,

I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board report (below).

As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can certainly be seen in our reports to the board [1].

If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to keep everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.

-Ryan

[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>


WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the  Attic; and

WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to inactivity;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is hereby terminated; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is hereby terminated; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com>]

Ron, IMO the termination of the project is due to a lack of activity around
fixing bugs, making enhancements, and the termination of the OpenSocial
organization as well.  Most people, including myself, have moved on to
other projects and are no longer actively working in the OpenSocial/gadget
space.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:28 AM Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>
wrote:

> Is the inactivity due to absence of bugs and no suggestions for
> enhancements or no interest in fixing bugs or adding missing features?
>
> If an organization still wanted to use it but wanted support, are there
> individuals willing and able to provide support on a commercial basis?
>
> What are the other projects and products that depend on Shindig doing in
> light of the cessation of development?
>
> Ron
>
> On 04/11/2015 9:01 AM, Ryan Baxter wrote:
> > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> can't
> > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you
> than
> > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear
> of
> >> the demise of what
> >> seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For
> the
> >> past nine months I have
> >> advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and industry
> >> delivery platforms of the
> >> Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> Liferay/Shindig
> >> based site. Over the
> >> past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently awaiting
> >> the next project
> >> funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and
> tell
> >> them that the
> >> basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing,
> and we
> >> will likewise now
> >> need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I
> have
> >> been quite happy
> >> with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> forward
> >> to a robust
> >> implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
> >> shiny new Gadget-based
> >> solution.
> >>
> >> Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry
> to
> >> hear about it being
> >> put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> >> Apache but we were actively
> >> using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> weather
> >> delivery solution.
> >>
> >> Ichiro
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> >>>
> >>> I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> >>> terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> >>> informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> >> report
> >>> (below).
> >>>
> >>> As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> >>> participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> the
> >>> downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> >> certainly
> >>> be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> >>>
> >>> If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> >> keep
> >>> everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> -Ryan
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> >>> From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> >>> Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> >>> Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> >>> To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> >>> Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> >>> project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> >>>   Attic; and
> >>>
> >>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> >>> interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> >>> due to inactivity;
> >>>
> >>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> >>> project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> >>>
> >>> RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> >>> oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> >>> Project; and be it further
> >>>
> >>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> >>> hereby terminated; and be it further
> >>>
> >>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> >>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>]

Is the inactivity due to absence of bugs and no suggestions for 
enhancements or no interest in fixing bugs or adding missing features?

If an organization still wanted to use it but wanted support, are there 
individuals willing and able to provide support on a commercial basis?

What are the other projects and products that depend on Shindig doing in 
light of the cessation of development?

Ron

On 04/11/2015 9:01 AM, Ryan Baxter wrote:
> Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you can't
> continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you than
> you should be able to continue to use it as is.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear of
>> the demise of what
>> seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For the
>> past nine months I have
>> advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and industry
>> delivery platforms of the
>> Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a Liferay/Shindig
>> based site. Over the
>> past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently awaiting
>> the next project
>> funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and tell
>> them that the
>> basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing, and we
>> will likewise now
>> need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I have
>> been quite happy
>> with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked forward
>> to a robust
>> implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
>> shiny new Gadget-based
>> solution.
>>
>> Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry to
>> hear about it being
>> put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
>> Apache but we were actively
>> using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online weather
>> delivery solution.
>>
>> Ichiro
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>>>
>>> I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
>>> terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
>>> informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
>> report
>>> (below).
>>>
>>> As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
>>> participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
>>> downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
>> certainly
>>> be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>>>
>>> If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
>> keep
>>> everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Ryan
>>>
>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
>>> Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
>>> Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>>> To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
>>> Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
>>> project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
>>>   Attic; and
>>>
>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
>>> interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
>>> due to inactivity;
>>>
>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
>>> project is hereby terminated; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
>>> oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
>>> Project; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
>>> hereby terminated; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>>>


-- 
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>]

Just a note: I found out the hard way (by clicking on the link) that Trello
isn't compatible
with Firefox (40.0.3) on Ubuntu (14.04LTS). Like a few other new web
frameworks such
as Wix it renders as a blank screen. It works just fine with Chrome (this
just confirms my
Grande Conspiracy Theory regarding Google Taking Over the World).

sigh (and thanks for the invite)

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:00 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have created a board over @ Trello
> <https://trello.com/b/hUTQuH6q/codename-apache-shindig-2015> where anyone
> who wants can write down his wishes regarding the future of the project.
> This way we can all have an overall perspective of what most people want to
> see happening and everyone can vote.  Data never lie.  The board is public
> but send me an RSVP to add you as members if you want to add stuff.  An
> invitation should have been already sent to all members in this discussion.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the synopsis of what you do and where you’re coming from.
> > Currently our interest and focus is on pretty much everything Shindig has
> > to offer, from gadget rendering, canvas view support, UserPref
> definitions,
> > OpenSocial connections and so on. We’re more or less recreated iGoogle at
> > www.blueg.com and have other similar but highly targeted plans for
> > www.gamesoft.com relating to the Computer & Video Games market.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hopefully we can continue sharing ideas, thoughts and hopes for the
> future
> > use of the Shindig code base and give it the audience it deserves and
> needs.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> >
> > *Darren Bond | Service Manager |* *GlobalCAD*
> >
> > T +44 1252 703939
> >
> > dbond@globalcad.com | www.globalcad.com
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto:
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com]
> >
> > *Sent:* 13 November 2015 12:52
> >
> > *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Darren,
> >
> >
> >
> > long story short - I am a Solutions Architect coming from the Enterprise
> > with 15 years of experience on my back.  For the last 3-4 years I've been
> > focusing mainly in the fields of real-time big data analytics,
> dashboarding
> > and APIs for highly scalable / distributed systems.  Currently I'm
> working
> > as a contractor for a company in the music streaming business with a
> > product which is a direct competitor to Spotify.  At the same time I'm
> also
> > writing dev tools and browser plugins for both internal use and open
> source
> > communities.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now regarding your question, I could naturally get involved supporting
> the
> > maintenance of the project - given of course a right future and
> perspective
> > - as I've been working with Java oriented technologies more than I can
> > remember but as you can understand my available time slots for this sort
> of
> > thing would be fairly limited as my time usually gets filled up with very
> > diverse tasks.  For example, one of my responsibilities within the
> context
> > of my day time job is to lead the path for our QA / Automation team
> (apart
> > from the aforementioned tasks) and this takes me down a road of heavy BDD
> > oriented deliverables ranging from internal tools and frameworks to
> design
> > principles.  You can have a look at some of the things I'm currently
> into @
> > http://chefarchitect.github.io/ which is my personal GitHub space.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I'd be more than happy to contribute shareable resources and
> > experiences and if we decide to pay focus in that aspect - rather than
> > trying to extend the core components that are pretty robust at the
> moment -
> > as I truly believe that this is the ground where the 'game' should be
> > played.  For example, during the last couple of years me and my teams
> have
> > switched over to other more modern stacks like NodeJS and everything we
> > design follows a micro-service principle.  One of the things that we'll
> be
> > developing in the near future is a micro-service for a gadgets
> marketplace
> > that we need for our product in order to have a purely dynamic way of
> > contributing gadgets within our eco-system and dashboards and at the same
> > time enable 3rd party devs to do the same as well.  This could perfectly
> > match the description of a shareable resource that others could plug into
> > their eco-systems as a all-in-one bundled Docker container that contains
> > the API, store engine, etc.  If we start sharing real-life experiences in
> > the form of deployable components I'm 100% sure that this would trigger
> > others to start building on top of working services without having to
> > re-invent the wheel.
> >
> >
> >
> > As a close-up line, I'm quoting a dialogue from the latest James Bond
> > movie that I came across through the trailer:
> >
> >
> >
> > James (to the bad guy): "I'm here to kill you"
> > Bad guy (to James):  "Oh, I thought you were here to die"
> > James: "Well, everything is a matter of perspective" ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation. Can you remind me of your background and
> > skills – are you a full time developer? Are you intending to contribute
> to
> > the future development of Java Shindig yourself? I’m excited as to the
> > future possibilities but a little unclear who will actually develop the
> > beast that is Apache Shindig!
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto:
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com]
> >
> > *Sent:* 12 November 2015 17:29
> > *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
> >
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Darren,
> >
> >
> >
> > there is no misunderstanding whatsoever.  My proposition is that the
> > project gets decoupled without breaking any of the dependencies.  I
> > understand that from your position & role you're not expected to know the
> > architecture of the project itself, but these two functionalities are
> > already separated.  The OpenSocial API is implemented as a separate
> library
> > from the container.  All artifacts can be built separately (and
> distributed
> > separately in that sense) but the main reason that everything is bundled
> in
> > one monolithic project is versioning.
> >
> >
> >
> > As you can understand, until now both the social API and the gadget
> engine
> > were promoted under the OpenSocial umbrella as one.  But history has
> shown
> > that there was no real interest by the major players in the social
> > networking business in adopting the OpenSocial spec - apart from Google
> > with their failed Orkut attempt - and therefore there was not space for
> it
> > to evolve.  Ever since then it got stuck in time and unfortunately has
> > become an extra burden for the rest of the components.
> >
> >
> >
> > Still, if things were to be separated there would be no issues since
> > different components would have different versions and maintained
> > independently.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope that helped you a bit :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Just a quick note to say that our sites like www.blueg.com are entirely
> > reliant on the OpenSocial side of things. Any future version of Shindig
> (or
> > whatever it gets called!) would not be much use to us if the OpenSocial
> > aspect was stripped out. Apologies if I've not understood you correctly.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ichiro Furusato [mailto:ichiro.furusato@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 11 November 2015 22:01
> > To: dev@shindig.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Thanks very much for your long and thoughtful message regarding the
> Apache
> > Shindig project.
> >
> > As I've described previously, we've made an initial investment in time
> and
> > up-skilling, gone through a proof-of-concept and prototype phase and
> await
> > funding for a rebuild of our weather displays using the Gadget hosting
> and
> > rendering facilities provided by Shindig. We are planning to host our
> > services over Liferay, using its embedded Shindig service. I've also
> > managed to build out a prototype of Shindig-over-Jetty as a much lighter
> > host should we decide not to use Liferay for all of our services. As you,
> > we've focused mostly on the Gadget containment and rendering provided by
> > Shindig (and are quite excited about that as it allows our developers to
> > focus on individual gadgets rather than either the portal environment or
> > inadvertent multiple-gadget interaction across the global JavaScript
> space.
> > The containment alone is worth the cost of entry.
> >
> > That said I still hope to see a stable trunk that we can use for what
> > would be a large part of our enterprise weather delivery. We simply can't
> > use a hobbyist-level software package for that. I am perhaps rather
> > old-school in not quite grokking the importance of GitHub, but I can
> accept
> > yours and some of my co-workers opinions on its viability and rising
> > importance in the dev world.
> >
> > We would largely be interested mostly in the Gadget containment and
> > rendering facilities, as we have yet to use the OpenSocial features, nor
> do
> > we see a requirement for them in our aviation- and industry-focused
> > products. So splitting the project would (to me) not be an issue. But I
> can
> > understand that some might fear that such a split might endanger the
> > viability of the overall package.
> >
> > We look forward to a successful migration of the active project to a new
> > home, if that should come to pass. At this point I cannot unfortunately
> > commit to providing code or support as our project is currently on hold.
> > But having Shindig resurface on GitHub would be almost a requirement for
> it
> > to be funded at this point. I assume that all the other 'lurkers' out
> there
> > who are using Shindig may be in a similar predicament.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Ichiro
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> > chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far,
> > > I have come down to the following conclusion.
> > >
> > > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the
> > > shadows supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing,
> > > advocating, integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named
> > > company like Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this
> > > project for a number of years now).
> > >
> > > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with
> > > many other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of
> > > time and money for experimenting with different types of technologies
> > > and if things don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be
> > > happening is that some other company takes over on the experiment and
> > > so on, until no big name is really interested any more.
> > >
> > > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
> > > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve
> > > their purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I
> > > can totally understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and
> > > at the same time I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this
> > > situation?  Speaking for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to
> > > live and work in a country that is in crisis mode for quite a few
> > > years now, all I can say is that a crisis can be the mother of
> invention
> > and change for a better tomorrow.
> > > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way
> > > of course :)
> > >
> > > I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have
> > > changed in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends
> > > and communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the
> > > place to be but now this is definitely not the case - of course this
> > > doesn't mean that the foundation is not the birthplace of great
> > > technologies.  But all the action now is over at GitHub.
> > >
> > > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's
> > > perspective) that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my
> > proposals:
> > >
> > >    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts
> -
> > >    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no
> > > interest in
> > >    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and
> rendering
> > >    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot
> > > of time
> > >    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
> > >    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
> > >    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is
> > very
> > >    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities
> > > that this
> > >    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
> > > because
> > >    it may solve them a number of problems.
> > >    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
> > >    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
> > >    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered
> > marketplace
> > >    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly
> > Darren's
> > >    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the
> > iGoogle
> > >    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
> > >    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub
> > in a
> > >    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
> > > bureaucratic
> > >    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
> > > broken
> > >    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and
> > people
> > >    having certain skills could join forces
> > >    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
> > >    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show
> > > cases, etc
> > >    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.
> The
> > >    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
> > >    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we
> > know
> > >    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and
> > > actively use
> > >    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
> > >    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely
> > > have devs
> > >    who know the bits and pieces
> > >
> > > So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to
> > > move over to the next phase without getting into any sort of
> > > credibility issues regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
> > > vendors
> > > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just
> > > > stop supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that
> > > > this puts you in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open
> > source software.
> > > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there
> > > > is not much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project
> > > > regains life somewhere else, that is great.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Ryan,
> > > > >
> > > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> > > > architects
> > > > > and
> > > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if
> > > > > the project has folded. We were planning to replace literally five
> > > > > separate legacy
> > > > portals
> > > > > (that
> > > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as
> > > > > replacements)
> > > using
> > > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social
> > Gadgets.
> > > > > With
> > > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded
> > > > > Shindig
> > > will
> > > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of
> > > > > the project. If the project is dead I can't very well suggest we
> > > > > base millions of dollars
> > > of
> > > > > online
> > > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for
> > > > > that decision I could hardly be said to be responsible in
> > > > > advocating for its use at
> > > > this
> > > > > stage.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sadly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ichiro
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't
> > > > > > mean you
> > > > > can't
> > > > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now
> > > > > > for
> > > you
> > > > > than
> > > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very
> > > > > > > sad to
> > > > hear
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the demise of what
> > > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature
> project.
> > > For
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > past nine months I have
> > > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > industry
> > > > > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > > > > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > > > > based site. Over the
> > > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are
> > > > > > > currently
> > > > > awaiting
> > > > > > > the next project
> > > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management
> > > > > > > team
> > > and
> > > > > > tell
> > > > > > > them that the
> > > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
> > > embarrassing,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > will likewise now
> > > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead
> > > > > > > designer
> > > I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > been quite happy
> > > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had
> > > > > > > looked
> > > > > forward
> > > > > > > to a robust
> > > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty
> > > > > > > service
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > > > > solution.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > sorry
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > hear about it being
> > > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev
> > > > > > > side
> > > at
> > > > > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our
> > > > > > > online
> > > > > > weather
> > > > > > > delivery solution.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ichiro
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter
> > > > > > > <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has
> > > > > > > > voted
> > > to
> > > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > already
> > > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this
> > > > > > > > months
> > > > board
> > > > > > > report
> > > > > > > > (below).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline
> > > > > > > > in participation in all aspects of the project over the past
> > > > > > > > months
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will
> > > > > > > > be
> > > sure
> > > > to
> > > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the
> attic.
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> > > > DirectMemory
> > > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project
> > > > > > > > to the  Attic; and
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the
> > > > > > > > best interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache
> > > > > > > > Shindig project due to inactivity;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache
> > > > > > > > Shindig" is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> > >
> > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> >
> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> >
> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Chris Spiliotopoulos <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

I have created a board over @ Trello
<https://trello.com/b/hUTQuH6q/codename-apache-shindig-2015> where anyone
who wants can write down his wishes regarding the future of the project.
This way we can all have an overall perspective of what most people want to
see happening and everyone can vote.  Data never lie.  The board is public
but send me an RSVP to add you as members if you want to add stuff.  An
invitation should have been already sent to all members in this discussion.

Kind regards,
Chris

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the synopsis of what you do and where you’re coming from.
> Currently our interest and focus is on pretty much everything Shindig has
> to offer, from gadget rendering, canvas view support, UserPref definitions,
> OpenSocial connections and so on. We’re more or less recreated iGoogle at
> www.blueg.com and have other similar but highly targeted plans for
> www.gamesoft.com relating to the Computer & Video Games market.
>
>
>
> Hopefully we can continue sharing ideas, thoughts and hopes for the future
> use of the Shindig code base and give it the audience it deserves and needs.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Darren
>
>
>
> *Darren Bond | Service Manager |* *GlobalCAD*
>
> T +44 1252 703939
>
> dbond@globalcad.com | www.globalcad.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto:chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com]
>
> *Sent:* 13 November 2015 12:52
>
> *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>
>
>
> Hi Darren,
>
>
>
> long story short - I am a Solutions Architect coming from the Enterprise
> with 15 years of experience on my back.  For the last 3-4 years I've been
> focusing mainly in the fields of real-time big data analytics, dashboarding
> and APIs for highly scalable / distributed systems.  Currently I'm working
> as a contractor for a company in the music streaming business with a
> product which is a direct competitor to Spotify.  At the same time I'm also
> writing dev tools and browser plugins for both internal use and open source
> communities.
>
>
>
> Now regarding your question, I could naturally get involved supporting the
> maintenance of the project - given of course a right future and perspective
> - as I've been working with Java oriented technologies more than I can
> remember but as you can understand my available time slots for this sort of
> thing would be fairly limited as my time usually gets filled up with very
> diverse tasks.  For example, one of my responsibilities within the context
> of my day time job is to lead the path for our QA / Automation team (apart
> from the aforementioned tasks) and this takes me down a road of heavy BDD
> oriented deliverables ranging from internal tools and frameworks to design
> principles.  You can have a look at some of the things I'm currently into @
> http://chefarchitect.github.io/ which is my personal GitHub space.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I'd be more than happy to contribute shareable resources and
> experiences and if we decide to pay focus in that aspect - rather than
> trying to extend the core components that are pretty robust at the moment -
> as I truly believe that this is the ground where the 'game' should be
> played.  For example, during the last couple of years me and my teams have
> switched over to other more modern stacks like NodeJS and everything we
> design follows a micro-service principle.  One of the things that we'll be
> developing in the near future is a micro-service for a gadgets marketplace
> that we need for our product in order to have a purely dynamic way of
> contributing gadgets within our eco-system and dashboards and at the same
> time enable 3rd party devs to do the same as well.  This could perfectly
> match the description of a shareable resource that others could plug into
> their eco-systems as a all-in-one bundled Docker container that contains
> the API, store engine, etc.  If we start sharing real-life experiences in
> the form of deployable components I'm 100% sure that this would trigger
> others to start building on top of working services without having to
> re-invent the wheel.
>
>
>
> As a close-up line, I'm quoting a dialogue from the latest James Bond
> movie that I came across through the trailer:
>
>
>
> James (to the bad guy): "I'm here to kill you"
> Bad guy (to James):  "Oh, I thought you were here to die"
> James: "Well, everything is a matter of perspective" ;)
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanation. Can you remind me of your background and
> skills – are you a full time developer? Are you intending to contribute to
> the future development of Java Shindig yourself? I’m excited as to the
> future possibilities but a little unclear who will actually develop the
> beast that is Apache Shindig!
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Darren
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto:chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com]
>
> *Sent:* 12 November 2015 17:29
> *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>
>
>
> Hi Darren,
>
>
>
> there is no misunderstanding whatsoever.  My proposition is that the
> project gets decoupled without breaking any of the dependencies.  I
> understand that from your position & role you're not expected to know the
> architecture of the project itself, but these two functionalities are
> already separated.  The OpenSocial API is implemented as a separate library
> from the container.  All artifacts can be built separately (and distributed
> separately in that sense) but the main reason that everything is bundled in
> one monolithic project is versioning.
>
>
>
> As you can understand, until now both the social API and the gadget engine
> were promoted under the OpenSocial umbrella as one.  But history has shown
> that there was no real interest by the major players in the social
> networking business in adopting the OpenSocial spec - apart from Google
> with their failed Orkut attempt - and therefore there was not space for it
> to evolve.  Ever since then it got stuck in time and unfortunately has
> become an extra burden for the rest of the components.
>
>
>
> Still, if things were to be separated there would be no issues since
> different components would have different versions and maintained
> independently.
>
>
>
> Hope that helped you a bit :)
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Just a quick note to say that our sites like www.blueg.com are entirely
> reliant on the OpenSocial side of things. Any future version of Shindig (or
> whatever it gets called!) would not be much use to us if the OpenSocial
> aspect was stripped out. Apologies if I've not understood you correctly.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Darren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ichiro Furusato [mailto:ichiro.furusato@gmail.com]
> Sent: 11 November 2015 22:01
> To: dev@shindig.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks very much for your long and thoughtful message regarding the Apache
> Shindig project.
>
> As I've described previously, we've made an initial investment in time and
> up-skilling, gone through a proof-of-concept and prototype phase and await
> funding for a rebuild of our weather displays using the Gadget hosting and
> rendering facilities provided by Shindig. We are planning to host our
> services over Liferay, using its embedded Shindig service. I've also
> managed to build out a prototype of Shindig-over-Jetty as a much lighter
> host should we decide not to use Liferay for all of our services. As you,
> we've focused mostly on the Gadget containment and rendering provided by
> Shindig (and are quite excited about that as it allows our developers to
> focus on individual gadgets rather than either the portal environment or
> inadvertent multiple-gadget interaction across the global JavaScript space.
> The containment alone is worth the cost of entry.
>
> That said I still hope to see a stable trunk that we can use for what
> would be a large part of our enterprise weather delivery. We simply can't
> use a hobbyist-level software package for that. I am perhaps rather
> old-school in not quite grokking the importance of GitHub, but I can accept
> yours and some of my co-workers opinions on its viability and rising
> importance in the dev world.
>
> We would largely be interested mostly in the Gadget containment and
> rendering facilities, as we have yet to use the OpenSocial features, nor do
> we see a requirement for them in our aviation- and industry-focused
> products. So splitting the project would (to me) not be an issue. But I can
> understand that some might fear that such a split might endanger the
> viability of the overall package.
>
> We look forward to a successful migration of the active project to a new
> home, if that should come to pass. At this point I cannot unfortunately
> commit to providing code or support as our project is currently on hold.
> But having Shindig resurface on GitHub would be almost a requirement for it
> to be funded at this point. I assume that all the other 'lurkers' out there
> who are using Shindig may be in a similar predicament.
>
> All the best,
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far,
> > I have come down to the following conclusion.
> >
> > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the
> > shadows supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing,
> > advocating, integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named
> > company like Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this
> > project for a number of years now).
> >
> > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with
> > many other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of
> > time and money for experimenting with different types of technologies
> > and if things don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be
> > happening is that some other company takes over on the experiment and
> > so on, until no big name is really interested any more.
> >
> > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
> > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve
> > their purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I
> > can totally understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and
> > at the same time I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this
> > situation?  Speaking for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to
> > live and work in a country that is in crisis mode for quite a few
> > years now, all I can say is that a crisis can be the mother of invention
> and change for a better tomorrow.
> > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way
> > of course :)
> >
> > I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have
> > changed in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends
> > and communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the
> > place to be but now this is definitely not the case - of course this
> > doesn't mean that the foundation is not the birthplace of great
> > technologies.  But all the action now is over at GitHub.
> >
> > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's
> > perspective) that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my
> proposals:
> >
> >    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
> >    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no
> > interest in
> >    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
> >    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot
> > of time
> >    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
> >    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
> >    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is
> very
> >    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities
> > that this
> >    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
> > because
> >    it may solve them a number of problems.
> >    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
> >    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
> >    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered
> marketplace
> >    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly
> Darren's
> >    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the
> iGoogle
> >    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
> >    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub
> in a
> >    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
> > bureaucratic
> >    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
> > broken
> >    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and
> people
> >    having certain skills could join forces
> >    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
> >    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show
> > cases, etc
> >    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
> >    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
> >    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we
> know
> >    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and
> > actively use
> >    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
> >    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely
> > have devs
> >    who know the bits and pieces
> >
> > So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to
> > move over to the next phase without getting into any sort of
> > credibility issues regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
> > vendors
> > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just
> > > stop supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that
> > > this puts you in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open
> source software.
> > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there
> > > is not much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project
> > > regains life somewhere else, that is great.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
> > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Ryan,
> > > >
> > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> > > architects
> > > > and
> > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if
> > > > the project has folded. We were planning to replace literally five
> > > > separate legacy
> > > portals
> > > > (that
> > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as
> > > > replacements)
> > using
> > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social
> Gadgets.
> > > > With
> > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded
> > > > Shindig
> > will
> > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> > > >
> > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of
> > > > the project. If the project is dead I can't very well suggest we
> > > > base millions of dollars
> > of
> > > > online
> > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for
> > > > that decision I could hardly be said to be responsible in
> > > > advocating for its use at
> > > this
> > > > stage.
> > > >
> > > > Sadly.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Ichiro
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't
> > > > > mean you
> > > > can't
> > > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now
> > > > > for
> > you
> > > > than
> > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very
> > > > > > sad to
> > > hear
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the demise of what
> > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project.
> > For
> > > > the
> > > > > > past nine months I have
> > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation
> > > > > > and
> > > > industry
> > > > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > > > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > > > based site. Over the
> > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are
> > > > > > currently
> > > > awaiting
> > > > > > the next project
> > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management
> > > > > > team
> > and
> > > > > tell
> > > > > > them that the
> > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
> > embarrassing,
> > > > and
> > > > > we
> > > > > > will likewise now
> > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead
> > > > > > designer
> > I
> > > > have
> > > > > > been quite happy
> > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had
> > > > > > looked
> > > > forward
> > > > > > to a robust
> > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty
> > > > > > service
> > with
> > > a
> > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > > > solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job,
> > > > > > very
> > > sorry
> > > > > to
> > > > > > hear about it being
> > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev
> > > > > > side
> > at
> > > > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our
> > > > > > online
> > > > > weather
> > > > > > delivery solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ichiro
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter
> > > > > > <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has
> > > > > > > voted
> > to
> > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I
> > > > > > > have
> > > > already
> > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this
> > > > > > > months
> > > board
> > > > > > report
> > > > > > > (below).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline
> > > > > > > in participation in all aspects of the project over the past
> > > > > > > months
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will
> > > > > > > be
> > sure
> > > to
> > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> > > DirectMemory
> > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project
> > > > > > > to the  Attic; and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the
> > > > > > > best interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache
> > > > > > > Shindig project due to inactivity;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache
> > > > > > > Shindig" is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> >
> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>
>


-- 
Chris Spiliotopoulos

Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
<https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>]

Hi Chris,

Thanks very much for your long and thoughtful message regarding the Apache
Shindig project.

As I've described previously, we've made an initial investment in time and
up-skilling, gone through
a proof-of-concept and prototype phase and await funding for a rebuild of
our weather displays
using the Gadget hosting and rendering facilities provided by Shindig. We
are planning to host our
services over Liferay, using its embedded Shindig service. I've also
managed to build out a
prototype of Shindig-over-Jetty as a much lighter host should we decide not
to use Liferay for all
of our services. As you, we've focused mostly on the Gadget containment and
rendering provided
by Shindig (and are quite excited about that as it allows our developers to
focus on individual
gadgets rather than either the portal environment or inadvertent
multiple-gadget interaction across
the global JavaScript space. The containment alone is worth the cost of
entry.

That said I still hope to see a stable trunk that we can use for what would
be a large part of our
enterprise weather delivery. We simply can't use a hobbyist-level software
package for that. I am
perhaps rather old-school in not quite grokking the importance of GitHub,
but I can accept yours
and some of my co-workers opinions on its viability and rising importance
in the dev world.

We would largely be interested mostly in the Gadget containment and
rendering facilities, as we
have yet to use the OpenSocial features, nor do we see a requirement for
them in our aviation-
and industry-focused products. So splitting the project would (to me) not
be an issue. But I can
understand that some might fear that such a split might endanger the
viability of the overall
package.

We look forward to a successful migration of the active project to a new
home, if that should come
to pass. At this point I cannot unfortunately commit to providing code or
support as our project is
currently on hold. But having Shindig resurface on GitHub would be almost a
requirement for it
to be funded at this point. I assume that all the other 'lurkers' out there
who are using Shindig
may be in a similar predicament.

All the best,

Ichiro

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
> have come down to the following conclusion.
>
> There are many professionals among us that have been working in the shadows
> supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
> integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
> Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
> number of years now).
>
> My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with many
> other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and
> money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if things
> don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
> some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
> name is really interested any more.
>
> During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
> technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve their
> purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can totally
> understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same time
> I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?  Speaking
> for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a country
> that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a
> crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
> And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
> course :)
>
> I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have changed
> in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
> communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to be
> but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean that
> the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
> action now is over at GitHub.
>
> So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's perspective)
> that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:
>
>    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
>    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no interest
> in
>    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
>    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of
> time
>    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
>    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
>    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is very
>    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that
> this
>    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
> because
>    it may solve them a number of problems.
>    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
>    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
>    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered marketplace
>    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly Darren's
>    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the iGoogle
>    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
>    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub in a
>    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
> bureaucratic
>    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
> broken
>    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and people
>    having certain skills could join forces
>    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
>    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show cases,
> etc
>    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
>    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
>    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we know
>    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and actively
> use
>    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
>    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have
> devs
>    who know the bits and pieces
>
> So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to move
> over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility issues
> regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
> vendors
> > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
> > supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts you
> > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source software.
> > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is not
> > much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
> > somewhere else, that is great.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
> ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ryan,
> > >
> > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> > architects
> > > and
> > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> > > project has
> > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
> > portals
> > > (that
> > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements)
> using
> > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
> > > With
> > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig
> will
> > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> > >
> > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> > > project. If the
> > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars
> of
> > > online
> > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> > > decision
> > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at
> > this
> > > stage.
> > >
> > > Sadly.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ichiro
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> > > can't
> > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for
> you
> > > than
> > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to
> > hear
> > > > of
> > > > > the demise of what
> > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project.
> For
> > > the
> > > > > past nine months I have
> > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> > > industry
> > > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > > based site. Over the
> > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> > > awaiting
> > > > > the next project
> > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team
> and
> > > > tell
> > > > > them that the
> > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
> embarrassing,
> > > and
> > > > we
> > > > > will likewise now
> > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer
> I
> > > have
> > > > > been quite happy
> > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> > > forward
> > > > > to a robust
> > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service
> with
> > a
> > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > > solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very
> > sorry
> > > > to
> > > > > hear about it being
> > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side
> at
> > > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> > > > weather
> > > > > delivery solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ichiro
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted
> to
> > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> > > already
> > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
> > board
> > > > > report
> > > > > > (below).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > > > certainly
> > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be
> sure
> > to
> > > > > keep
> > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> > DirectMemory
> > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > > > >  Attic; and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > > > > due to inactivity;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

["Merrill, Matt" <mm...@mitre.org>]

Hi Chris,

I would definitely like to be in the loop if you decide to move forward with the ideas you proposed. Our organization is heavily invested in Shindig and we don’t yet have a viable alternative yet. I especially like what you’re saying about breaking up different parts of functionality.  Much like you, we don’t have a lot of use for Shindig’s OpenSocial capabilities, but use it’s gadget rendering primarily.

-Matt



On 11/8/15, 7:15 AM, "Chris Spiliotopoulos" <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi Raj,
>
>well I guess this makes 2 of us!  Let's wait for what others have to say
>just to get a clear view of all the perspectives.
>
>Cheers
>
>
>
>On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>> i am ready.
>> Last year i was thinking to write documentation with examples but couldn't
>> do that. i hate apache way of trunk and website.
>>
>> This time i can help creating few html pages.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Raj
>>
>> On Sunday 8 November 2015, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
>> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
>> > have come down to the following conclusion.
>> >
>> > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the
>> shadows
>> > supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
>> > integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
>> > Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
>> > number of years now).
>> >
>> > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with
>> many
>> > other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and
>> > money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if
>> things
>> > don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
>> > some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
>> > name is really interested any more.
>> >
>> > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
>> > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve
>> their
>> > purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can
>> totally
>> > understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same
>> time
>> > I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?
>> Speaking
>> > for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a
>> country
>> > that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a
>> > crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
>> > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
>> > course :)
>> >
>> > I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have changed
>> > in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
>> > communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to
>> be
>> > but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean
>> that
>> > the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
>> > action now is over at GitHub.
>> >
>> > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's
>> perspective)
>> > that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:
>> >
>> >    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
>> >    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no
>> interest
>> > in
>> >    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
>> >    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of
>> > time
>> >    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
>> >    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
>> >    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is
>> very
>> >    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that
>> > this
>> >    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
>> > because
>> >    it may solve them a number of problems.
>> >    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
>> >    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
>> >    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered
>> marketplace
>> >    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly
>> Darren's
>> >    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the
>> iGoogle
>> >    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
>> >    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub
>> in a
>> >    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
>> > bureaucratic
>> >    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
>> > broken
>> >    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and
>> people
>> >    having certain skills could join forces
>> >    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
>> >    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show
>> cases,
>> > etc
>> >    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
>> >    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
>> >    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we
>> know
>> >    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and
>> actively
>> > use
>> >    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
>> >    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have
>> > devs
>> >    who know the bits and pieces
>> >
>> > So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to move
>> > over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility
>> issues
>> > regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
>> > vendors
>> > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
>> > > supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts
>> you
>> > > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source
>> software.
>> > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is
>> not
>> > > much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
>> > > somewhere else, that is great.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
>> > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Ryan,
>> > > >
>> > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
>> > > architects
>> > > > and
>> > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
>> > > > project has
>> > > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
>> > > portals
>> > > > (that
>> > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements)
>> > using
>> > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social
>> Gadgets.
>> > > > With
>> > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig
>> > will
>> > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
>> > > >
>> > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
>> > > > project. If the
>> > > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars
>> > of
>> > > > online
>> > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
>> > > > decision
>> > > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at
>> > > this
>> > > > stage.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sadly.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > >
>> > > > Ichiro
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@gmail.com
>> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean
>> you
>> > > > can't
>> > > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for
>> > you
>> > > > than
>> > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
>> > > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad
>> to
>> > > hear
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > the demise of what
>> > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project.
>> > For
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > past nine months I have
>> > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
>> > > > industry
>> > > > > > delivery platforms of the
>> > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
>> > > > Liferay/Shindig
>> > > > > > based site. Over the
>> > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
>> > > > awaiting
>> > > > > > the next project
>> > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team
>> > and
>> > > > > tell
>> > > > > > them that the
>> > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
>> > embarrassing,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > we
>> > > > > > will likewise now
>> > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead
>> designer
>> > I
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > been quite happy
>> > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
>> > > > forward
>> > > > > > to a robust
>> > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service
>> > with
>> > > a
>> > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
>> > > > > > solution.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very
>> > > sorry
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > hear about it being
>> > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev
>> side
>> > at
>> > > > > > Apache but we were actively
>> > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our
>> online
>> > > > > weather
>> > > > > > delivery solution.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Ichiro
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <
>> rbaxter85@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted
>> > to
>> > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
>> > > > already
>> > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
>> > > board
>> > > > > > report
>> > > > > > > (below).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
>> > > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past
>> months
>> > > and
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This
>> can
>> > > > > > certainly
>> > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be
>> > sure
>> > > to
>> > > > > > keep
>> > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
>> > > > Thanks.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > -Ryan
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > [1]
>> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
>> > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>> > > > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
>> > private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
>> > > DirectMemory
>> > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to
>> the
>> > > > > > >  Attic; and
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
>> > > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig
>> project
>> > > > > > > due to inactivity;
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
>> > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
>> > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
>> > > > > > > Project; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig"
>> is
>> > > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
>> >
>> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
>> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
>Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
><https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
><https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Just to let you know

I was fan of iGoogle, which is closed in 13. So as a fun and learn
something i have implemented it - www.igoogleportal.com

I can definitely share some working examples.

Cheers.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:15 PM, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Raj,
>
> well I guess this makes 2 of us!  Let's wait for what others have to say
> just to get a clear view of all the perspectives.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chris,
>> i am ready.
>> Last year i was thinking to write documentation with examples but couldn't
>> do that. i hate apache way of trunk and website.
>>
>> This time i can help creating few html pages.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Raj
>>
>> On Sunday 8 November 2015, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
>> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
>> > have come down to the following conclusion.
>> >
>> > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the
>> shadows
>> > supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
>> > integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
>> > Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
>> > number of years now).
>> >
>> > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with
>> many
>> > other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time
>> and
>> > money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if
>> things
>> > don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
>> > some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
>> > name is really interested any more.
>> >
>> > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
>> > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve
>> their
>> > purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can
>> totally
>> > understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same
>> time
>> > I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?
>> Speaking
>> > for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a
>> country
>> > that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that
>> a
>> > crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
>> > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
>> > course :)
>> >
>> > I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have
>> changed
>> > in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
>> > communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place
>> to be
>> > but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean
>> that
>> > the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
>> > action now is over at GitHub.
>> >
>> > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's
>> perspective)
>> > that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:
>> >
>> >    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
>> >    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no
>> interest
>> > in
>> >    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and
>> rendering
>> >    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot
>> of
>> > time
>> >    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
>> >    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
>> >    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is
>> very
>> >    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that
>> > this
>> >    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
>> > because
>> >    it may solve them a number of problems.
>> >    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
>> >    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
>> >    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered
>> marketplace
>> >    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly
>> Darren's
>> >    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the
>> iGoogle
>> >    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
>> >    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub
>> in a
>> >    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
>> > bureaucratic
>> >    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
>> > broken
>> >    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and
>> people
>> >    having certain skills could join forces
>> >    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
>> >    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show
>> cases,
>> > etc
>> >    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
>> >    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
>> >    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we
>> know
>> >    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and
>> actively
>> > use
>> >    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
>> >    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely
>> have
>> > devs
>> >    who know the bits and pieces
>> >
>> > So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to
>> move
>> > over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility
>> issues
>> > regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
>> > vendors
>> > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just
>> stop
>> > > supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts
>> you
>> > > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source
>> software.
>> > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is
>> not
>> > > much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains
>> life
>> > > somewhere else, that is great.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
>> > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Ryan,
>> > > >
>> > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
>> > > architects
>> > > > and
>> > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if
>> the
>> > > > project has
>> > > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
>> > > portals
>> > > > (that
>> > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements)
>> > using
>> > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social
>> Gadgets.
>> > > > With
>> > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig
>> > will
>> > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
>> > > >
>> > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
>> > > > project. If the
>> > > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of
>> dollars
>> > of
>> > > > online
>> > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for
>> that
>> > > > decision
>> > > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use
>> at
>> > > this
>> > > > stage.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sadly.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > >
>> > > > Ichiro
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@gmail.com
>> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean
>> you
>> > > > can't
>> > > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for
>> > you
>> > > > than
>> > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
>> > > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad
>> to
>> > > hear
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > the demise of what
>> > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature
>> project.
>> > For
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > past nine months I have
>> > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
>> > > > industry
>> > > > > > delivery platforms of the
>> > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
>> > > > Liferay/Shindig
>> > > > > > based site. Over the
>> > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
>> > > > awaiting
>> > > > > > the next project
>> > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management
>> team
>> > and
>> > > > > tell
>> > > > > > them that the
>> > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
>> > embarrassing,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > we
>> > > > > > will likewise now
>> > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead
>> designer
>> > I
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > been quite happy
>> > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had
>> looked
>> > > > forward
>> > > > > > to a robust
>> > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service
>> > with
>> > > a
>> > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
>> > > > > > solution.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job,
>> very
>> > > sorry
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > hear about it being
>> > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev
>> side
>> > at
>> > > > > > Apache but we were actively
>> > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our
>> online
>> > > > > weather
>> > > > > > delivery solution.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Ichiro
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <
>> rbaxter85@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>>
>>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has
>> voted
>> > to
>> > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I
>> have
>> > > > already
>> > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
>> > > board
>> > > > > > report
>> > > > > > > (below).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
>> > > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past
>> months
>> > > and
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This
>> can
>> > > > > > certainly
>> > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be
>> > sure
>> > > to
>> > > > > > keep
>> > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
>> > > > Thanks.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > -Ryan
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > [1]
>> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
>> > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
>> > > > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
>> > <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
>> > private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
>> > > DirectMemory
>> > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to
>> the
>> > > > > > >  Attic; and
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
>> > > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig
>> project
>> > > > > > > due to inactivity;
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
>> > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
>> > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
>> > > > > > > Project; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig"
>> is
>> > > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
>> >
>> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
>> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Chris Spiliotopoulos <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi Raj,

well I guess this makes 2 of us!  Let's wait for what others have to say
just to get a clear view of all the perspectives.

Cheers



On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> i am ready.
> Last year i was thinking to write documentation with examples but couldn't
> do that. i hate apache way of trunk and website.
>
> This time i can help creating few html pages.
>
> Regards,
> Raj
>
> On Sunday 8 November 2015, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
> chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
> > have come down to the following conclusion.
> >
> > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the
> shadows
> > supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
> > integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
> > Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
> > number of years now).
> >
> > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with
> many
> > other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and
> > money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if
> things
> > don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
> > some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
> > name is really interested any more.
> >
> > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
> > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve
> their
> > purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can
> totally
> > understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same
> time
> > I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?
> Speaking
> > for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a
> country
> > that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a
> > crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
> > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
> > course :)
> >
> > I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have changed
> > in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
> > communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to
> be
> > but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean
> that
> > the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
> > action now is over at GitHub.
> >
> > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's
> perspective)
> > that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:
> >
> >    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
> >    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no
> interest
> > in
> >    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
> >    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of
> > time
> >    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
> >    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
> >    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is
> very
> >    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that
> > this
> >    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
> > because
> >    it may solve them a number of problems.
> >    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
> >    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
> >    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered
> marketplace
> >    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly
> Darren's
> >    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the
> iGoogle
> >    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
> >    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub
> in a
> >    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
> > bureaucratic
> >    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
> > broken
> >    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and
> people
> >    having certain skills could join forces
> >    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
> >    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show
> cases,
> > etc
> >    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
> >    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
> >    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we
> know
> >    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and
> actively
> > use
> >    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
> >    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have
> > devs
> >    who know the bits and pieces
> >
> > So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to move
> > over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility
> issues
> > regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
> > vendors
> > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
> > > supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts
> you
> > > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source
> software.
> > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is
> not
> > > much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
> > > somewhere else, that is great.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
> > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Ryan,
> > > >
> > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> > > architects
> > > > and
> > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> > > > project has
> > > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
> > > portals
> > > > (that
> > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements)
> > using
> > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social
> Gadgets.
> > > > With
> > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig
> > will
> > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> > > >
> > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> > > > project. If the
> > > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars
> > of
> > > > online
> > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> > > > decision
> > > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at
> > > this
> > > > stage.
> > > >
> > > > Sadly.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Ichiro
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean
> you
> > > > can't
> > > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for
> > you
> > > > than
> > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad
> to
> > > hear
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the demise of what
> > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project.
> > For
> > > > the
> > > > > > past nine months I have
> > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> > > > industry
> > > > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > > > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > > > based site. Over the
> > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> > > > awaiting
> > > > > > the next project
> > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team
> > and
> > > > > tell
> > > > > > them that the
> > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
> > embarrassing,
> > > > and
> > > > > we
> > > > > > will likewise now
> > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead
> designer
> > I
> > > > have
> > > > > > been quite happy
> > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> > > > forward
> > > > > > to a robust
> > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service
> > with
> > > a
> > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > > > solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very
> > > sorry
> > > > > to
> > > > > > hear about it being
> > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev
> side
> > at
> > > > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our
> online
> > > > > weather
> > > > > > delivery solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ichiro
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <
> rbaxter85@apache.org
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted
> > to
> > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> > > > already
> > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
> > > board
> > > > > > report
> > > > > > > (below).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past
> months
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This
> can
> > > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be
> > sure
> > > to
> > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> > private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> > > DirectMemory
> > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to
> the
> > > > > > >  Attic; and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig
> project
> > > > > > > due to inactivity;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig"
> is
> > > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Spiliotopoulos
> >
> > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
> >
>



-- 
Chris Spiliotopoulos

Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
<https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Hi Chris,
i am ready.
Last year i was thinking to write documentation with examples but couldn't
do that. i hate apache way of trunk and website.

This time i can help creating few html pages.

Regards,
Raj

On Sunday 8 November 2015, Chris Spiliotopoulos <
chrysanthos.spiliotopoulos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
> have come down to the following conclusion.
>
> There are many professionals among us that have been working in the shadows
> supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
> integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
> Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
> number of years now).
>
> My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with many
> other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and
> money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if things
> don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
> some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
> name is really interested any more.
>
> During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
> technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve their
> purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can totally
> understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same time
> I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?  Speaking
> for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a country
> that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a
> crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
> And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
> course :)
>
> I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have changed
> in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
> communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to be
> but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean that
> the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
> action now is over at GitHub.
>
> So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's perspective)
> that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:
>
>    - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
>    personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no interest
> in
>    them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
>    facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of
> time
>    and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
>    - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
>    first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is very
>    important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that
> this
>    technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out
> because
>    it may solve them a number of problems.
>    - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
>    experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
>    - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered marketplace
>    - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly Darren's
>    team has already launched a project which is very similar to the iGoogle
>    web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
>    - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub in a
>    more agile and community oriented approach without any of the
> bureaucratic
>    processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is
> broken
>    down into different projects then it would be more manageable and people
>    having certain skills could join forces
>    - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
>    resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show cases,
> etc
>    in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
>    integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
>    - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we know
>    for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and actively
> use
>    it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
>    container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have
> devs
>    who know the bits and pieces
>
> So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to move
> over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility issues
> regarding our choices?  +1 from me.
>
> Kind regards,
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of
> vendors
> > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
> > supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts you
> > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source software.
> > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is not
> > much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
> > somewhere else, that is great.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <
> ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ryan,
> > >
> > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> > architects
> > > and
> > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> > > project has
> > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
> > portals
> > > (that
> > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements)
> using
> > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
> > > With
> > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig
> will
> > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> > >
> > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> > > project. If the
> > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars
> of
> > > online
> > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> > > decision
> > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at
> > this
> > > stage.
> > >
> > > Sadly.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ichiro
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> > > can't
> > > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for
> you
> > > than
> > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to
> > hear
> > > > of
> > > > > the demise of what
> > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project.
> For
> > > the
> > > > > past nine months I have
> > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> > > industry
> > > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > > based site. Over the
> > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> > > awaiting
> > > > > the next project
> > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team
> and
> > > > tell
> > > > > them that the
> > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat
> embarrassing,
> > > and
> > > > we
> > > > > will likewise now
> > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer
> I
> > > have
> > > > > been quite happy
> > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> > > forward
> > > > > to a robust
> > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service
> with
> > a
> > > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > > solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very
> > sorry
> > > > to
> > > > > hear about it being
> > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side
> at
> > > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> > > > weather
> > > > > delivery solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ichiro
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted
> to
> > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> > > already
> > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
> > board
> > > > > report
> > > > > > (below).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > > > certainly
> > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be
> sure
> > to
> > > > > keep
> > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxter85@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > > To: board@apache.org <javascript:;> <board@apache.org
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> <
> private@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> > DirectMemory
> > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > > > >  Attic; and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > > > > due to inactivity;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Spiliotopoulos
>
> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Chris Spiliotopoulos <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I
have come down to the following conclusion.

There are many professionals among us that have been working in the shadows
supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating,
integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like
Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a
number of years now).

My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with many
other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and
money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if things
don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that
some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big
name is really interested any more.

During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the
technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve their
purposes.  And this is exactly where we stand at the moment.  I can totally
understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same time
I get Ryan's point of view.  So how do we handle this situation?  Speaking
for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a country
that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a
crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow.
And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of
course :)

I think that now is the right time to make a change.  Things have changed
in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and
communities.  Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to be
but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean that
the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies.  But all the
action now is over at GitHub.

So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's perspective)
that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals:

   - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts -
   personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no interest in
   them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering
   facilities.  But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of time
   and work on extending the OpenSocial features.
   - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the
   first place (speaking for myself once more).  I think that this is very
   important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that this
   technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out because
   it may solve them a number of problems.
   - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our
   experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials
   - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered marketplace
   - in the context of show casing stuff.  If I remember correctly Darren's
   team has already launched a project which is very similar to the iGoogle
   web site so he could certainly provide some ideas.
   - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub in a
   more agile and community oriented approach without any of the bureaucratic
   processes imposed by the Apache Foundation.  Once the 'monolith' is broken
   down into different projects then it would be more manageable and people
   having certain skills could join forces
   - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting
   resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show cases, etc
   in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub.  The
   integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer
   - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we know
   for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and actively use
   it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig
   container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have devs
   who know the bits and pieces

So the question now for me is really simple.  How many of us want to move
over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility issues
regarding our choices?  +1 from me.

Kind regards,
Chris


On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:

> I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of vendors
> who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
> supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts you
> in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source software.
> With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is not
> much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
> somewhere else, that is great.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and
> architects
> > and
> > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> > project has
> > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy
> portals
> > (that
> > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements) using
> > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
> > With
> > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig will
> > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
> >
> > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> > project. If the
> > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars of
> > online
> > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> > decision
> > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at
> this
> > stage.
> >
> > Sadly.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ichiro
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> > can't
> > > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you
> > than
> > > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> > ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to
> hear
> > > of
> > > > the demise of what
> > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For
> > the
> > > > past nine months I have
> > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> > industry
> > > > delivery platforms of the
> > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> > Liferay/Shindig
> > > > based site. Over the
> > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> > awaiting
> > > > the next project
> > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and
> > > tell
> > > > them that the
> > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing,
> > and
> > > we
> > > > will likewise now
> > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I
> > have
> > > > been quite happy
> > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> > forward
> > > > to a robust
> > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with
> a
> > > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > > solution.
> > > >
> > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very
> sorry
> > > to
> > > > hear about it being
> > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> > > > Apache but we were actively
> > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> > > weather
> > > > delivery solution.
> > > >
> > > > Ichiro
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> > already
> > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months
> board
> > > > report
> > > > > (below).
> > > > >
> > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months
> and
> > > the
> > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > > certainly
> > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure
> to
> > > > keep
> > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache
> DirectMemory
> > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > > >  Attic; and
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > > > due to inactivity;
> > > > >
> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > > Project; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Chris Spiliotopoulos

Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter
<https://twitter.com/chefArchitect>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>]

I completely understand.  I can't speak to the continued support of vendors
who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop
supporting the products consuming Shindig.  I am sorry that this puts you
in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source software.
With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is not
much we can do.  If someone takes the code and the project regains life
somewhere else, that is great.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ryan,
>
> While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and architects
> and
> advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> project has
> folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy portals
> (that
> have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements) using
> Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
> With
> the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig will
> likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
>
> It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> project. If the
> project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars of
> online
> delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> decision
> I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at this
> stage.
>
> Sadly.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> can't
> > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you
> than
> > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear
> > of
> > > the demise of what
> > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For
> the
> > > past nine months I have
> > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> industry
> > > delivery platforms of the
> > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> Liferay/Shindig
> > > based site. Over the
> > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> awaiting
> > > the next project
> > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and
> > tell
> > > them that the
> > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing,
> and
> > we
> > > will likewise now
> > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I
> have
> > > been quite happy
> > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> forward
> > > to a robust
> > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
> > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > solution.
> > >
> > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry
> > to
> > > hear about it being
> > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> > > Apache but we were actively
> > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> > weather
> > > delivery solution.
> > >
> > > Ichiro
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> already
> > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> > > report
> > > > (below).
> > > >
> > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> > the
> > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > certainly
> > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> > > keep
> > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > -Ryan
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > >  Attic; and
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > > due to inactivity;
> > > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > Project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Raj Janorkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Very sad.
Such a beautiful product is going away. Does this mean social gadget
concept is going to die or already dead.

So many organisation currently using it. I think Ryan it will be good idea
to move it to github, apache trunk sucks (sorry), developer choice is
github. may be shindig will get new life there. (the problem is many people
dont know what is shindig, it is limited to implementer like google,
atlasian etc. mostly these organisation take copy of shindig and enhance it
to their needs and keep it with them.)

I think it's all because google terminated igoogle, microsoft terminated
my.msn, and all mobile apps everywhere.

Not sure whats going to happen in this space.

I am also worried about Apache RAVE.

Now there is nothing social there, i need to visit individual sites.

God knows when history will repeat itself.


On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ryan,
>
> While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and architects
> and
> advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
> project has
> folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy portals
> (that
> have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements) using
> Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
> With
> the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig will
> likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.
>
> It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
> project. If the
> project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars of
> online
> delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
> decision
> I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at this
> stage.
>
> Sadly.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you
> can't
> > continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you
> than
> > you should be able to continue to use it as is.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <
> ichiro.furusato@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear
> > of
> > > the demise of what
> > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For
> the
> > > past nine months I have
> > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and
> industry
> > > delivery platforms of the
> > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a
> Liferay/Shindig
> > > based site. Over the
> > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently
> awaiting
> > > the next project
> > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and
> > tell
> > > them that the
> > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing,
> and
> > we
> > > will likewise now
> > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I
> have
> > > been quite happy
> > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked
> forward
> > > to a robust
> > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
> > > shiny new Gadget-based
> > > solution.
> > >
> > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry
> > to
> > > hear about it being
> > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> > > Apache but we were actively
> > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> > weather
> > > delivery solution.
> > >
> > > Ichiro
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have
> already
> > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> > > report
> > > > (below).
> > > >
> > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> > the
> > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > > certainly
> > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> > > keep
> > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.
> Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > -Ryan
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > > >  Attic; and
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > > due to inactivity;
> > > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > > Project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>]

Hi Ryan,

While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and architects
and
advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the
project has
folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy portals
(that
have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements) using
Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets.
With
the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig will
likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use.

It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the
project. If the
project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars of
online
delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that
decision
I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at this
stage.

Sadly.

Cheers,

Ichiro

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you can't
> continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you than
> you should be able to continue to use it as is.
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear
> of
> > the demise of what
> > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For the
> > past nine months I have
> > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and industry
> > delivery platforms of the
> > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a Liferay/Shindig
> > based site. Over the
> > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently awaiting
> > the next project
> > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and
> tell
> > them that the
> > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing, and
> we
> > will likewise now
> > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I have
> > been quite happy
> > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked forward
> > to a robust
> > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
> > shiny new Gadget-based
> > solution.
> >
> > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry
> to
> > hear about it being
> > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> > Apache but we were actively
> > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online
> weather
> > delivery solution.
> >
> > Ichiro
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> > >
> > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> > report
> > > (below).
> > >
> > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and
> the
> > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> > certainly
> > > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> > >
> > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> > keep
> > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > >
> > > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> > >  Attic; and
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > > due to inactivity;
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > > Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > > hereby terminated; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> > >
> >
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ryan Baxter <rb...@gmail.com>]

Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you can't
continue to use it.  If it is stable enough as it is right now for you than
you should be able to continue to use it as is.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear of
> the demise of what
> seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For the
> past nine months I have
> advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and industry
> delivery platforms of the
> Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a Liferay/Shindig
> based site. Over the
> past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently awaiting
> the next project
> funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and tell
> them that the
> basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing, and we
> will likewise now
> need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I have
> been quite happy
> with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked forward
> to a robust
> implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
> shiny new Gadget-based
> solution.
>
> Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry to
> hear about it being
> put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
> Apache but we were actively
> using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online weather
> delivery solution.
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
> >
> > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board
> report
> > (below).
> >
> > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> > downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can
> certainly
> > be seen in our reports to the board [1].
> >
> > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to
> keep
> > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> > To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> > Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
> >  Attic; and
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> > due to inactivity;
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> > project is hereby terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> > Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> > hereby terminated; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
> >
>

Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project

[Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>]

To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to hear of
the demise of what
seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. For the
past nine months I have
advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and industry
delivery platforms of the
Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a Liferay/Shindig
based site. Over the
past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently awaiting
the next project
funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team and tell
them that the
basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat embarrassing, and we
will likewise now
need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer I have
been quite happy
with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked forward
to a robust
implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service with a
shiny new Gadget-based
solution.

Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very sorry to
hear about it being
put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side at
Apache but we were actively
using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online weather
delivery solution.

Ichiro

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi fellow Shindig Devs,
>
> I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to
> terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic.  I have already
> informed the Apache board about the termination in this months board report
> (below).
>
> As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in
> participation in all aspects of the project over the past months and the
> downward trend has been happening for over a year now.  This can certainly
> be seen in our reports to the board [1].
>
> If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure to keep
> everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic.  Thanks.
>
> -Ryan
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Ryan Baxter <rb...@apache.org>
> Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project
> To: board@apache.org <bo...@apache.org>
> Cc: private@shindig.apache.org <pr...@shindig.apache.org>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache DirectMemory
> project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the
>  Attic; and
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best
> interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project
> due to inactivity;
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig
> project is hereby terminated; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with
> oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig
> Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is
> hereby terminated; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated.
>