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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com> on 2003/07/21 22:31:51 UTC
JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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Re: JSR-198
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Mark Galbreath wrote:
> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:51 -0400
> From: Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: JSR-198
>
> Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
>
> Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
> whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
> perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
> people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
> of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
> JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
>
I haven't been following JSR-198 closely, but my initial impression is
that they were focused much more on things like standardized APIs for
plugging modules into IDEs then they were picking a particular component
technology for rich client user interfaces. But I could be wrong.
The only people who can answer your question about the future of Eclipse
would probably be the Eclipse developers. For the particular issue of
plugins that support Struts development, I'd go ask folks like James
Holmes who have built such beasts.
Of course, the complexity of building rich client UIs, in any language, on
any platform, is what pushed me to get into the web space in the first
place :-). It's not clear that anyone has ever solved the complexity
problem for applications of non-trivial scale and functionality
requirements.
> Mark
Craig
>
>
>
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RE: JSR-198
Posted by Yansheng Lin <ya...@isogis.com>.
I believe AWT is heavy weight while Swing/SWT is light weight. To me Swing
would be a much better
choice for any cross-platform UI design. One of the main reasons Swing/SWT has
anything to do with Struts is that Swing/SWT is MVC too. From last week's post,
I heard that you could use the two together. But I am not sure.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 3:42 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198
As far as your questions regarding usage are concerned, AWT and SWT (the
latter, of which is used by IBM's Eclipse) do practically the same thing:
leveraging system-level protocols for on-screen graphics. Why NOT to use
Swing? It's a fucking memory pig and very poorly designed by a team that
just had to get something out into the development community that was not
platform specific. It has great promise, but it was rushed to market.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Yansheng Lin [mailto:yansheng.lin@isogis.com]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 5:26 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198
You might want to ask that Swing question on the eclipse newsgroup. AWT is
out a long time ago. I don't think they are going to include it. Why would
you want to use AWT instead of Swing anyways?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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RE: JSR-198
Posted by Mark Galbreath <ma...@qat.com>.
My interest was piqued from an article in Oracle Magazine (July/August
2003): 87-88. I know Craig and Ted and heavy into these developments and
was wanting some clarification. The article, btw, was not that good, which
is why I wanted Craig's opinion.
As far as your questions regarding usage are concerned, AWT and SWT (the
latter, of which is used by IBM's Eclipse) do practically the same thing:
leveraging system-level protocols for on-screen graphics. Why NOT to use
Swing? It's a fucking memory pig and very poorly designed by a team that
just had to get something out into the development community that was not
platform specific. It has great promise, but it was rushed to market.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Yansheng Lin [mailto:yansheng.lin@isogis.com]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 5:26 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198
You might want to ask that Swing question on the eclipse newsgroup. AWT is
out a long time ago. I don't think they are going to include it. Why would
you want to use AWT instead of Swing anyways?
I am not sure what the connection is between this and JSR-198? Can you
clarify? I am interested to find out.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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RE: JSR-198
Posted by Yansheng Lin <ya...@isogis.com>.
You might want to ask that Swing question on the eclipse newsgroup. AWT is out
a long time ago. I don't think they are going to include it. Why would you
want to use AWT instead of Swing anyways?
I am not sure what the connection is between this and JSR-198? Can you clarify?
I am interested to find out.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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Re: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Posted by Laura Werner <la...@lwerner.org>.
Andrew Hill wrote:
> http://www.javalobby.com/threadMode_printfriendly.jsp?forum=61&thread=7034
Interesting thread. Amy and the IBM guy both have valid points. I was
peripherally involved in some of the Swing stuff when I worked at IBM at
the time. A few of us reviewed Swing for IBM at round the time they
were integrating Netscape's IFC code and Gosling decided to rename it
from JFC to KFC because he hated the JFC name and wanted an interim name
that was just plain illegal.
My personal take on it at the time was that Swing was a good idea, but
seriously overdesigned. Not everything needs to be MVC. But then, I
was shell-shocked after surviving Taligent, which was overdesign taken
to its unnatural conclusion.
Laura
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Re: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Posted by Konstadinis Euaggelos <Va...@eurodyn.com>.
I am using Netbeans a lot of time now, i find it a little slower than
Eclipse,
There have been a lot of improvements with release 3.5 and jdk > 1.4.1.
Netbeans in contrary with Eclipse is more open system, more flexible and
give to developer
more modules to "play".
Vangos.
I consider NetBeans a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yansheng Lin" <ya...@isogis.com>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Hey, I was just trying to answer Mark's question and at the same time did a
bit
of self-study.
To me, Eclipse(SWT) is a much better Java IDE than NetBeans(Swing). And the
fact
that Sun's shipping NetBeans with j2se 1.4.2 seems to be a desparate
move(there
we go, my_future_employer--:). Of course, being a VA4J user for sometime, I
may
not have enough impartiality I wish to have.
BTW, where is Mark? I want to hear what he tinks. That guy doesn't read
responses to his question?
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hill [mailto:andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com]
Sent: July 24, 2003 12:12 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
A colleague of mine upon reading the archived message you linked to did a
bit of a search and come up with this thread in which some of those named
set the record straight:
http://www.javalobby.com/threadMode_printfriendly.jsp?forum=61&thread=7034
-----Original Message-----
From: Yansheng Lin [mailto:yansheng.lin@isogis.com]
Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 02:42
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Hi Mark, this is mind-blowing!!! I guess you cannot really ask a Sun's
developer any question on SWT:).
http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00358.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Posted by Yansheng Lin <ya...@isogis.com>.
Hey, I was just trying to answer Mark's question and at the same time did a bit
of self-study.
To me, Eclipse(SWT) is a much better Java IDE than NetBeans(Swing). And the fact
that Sun's shipping NetBeans with j2se 1.4.2 seems to be a desparate move(there
we go, my_future_employer--:). Of course, being a VA4J user for sometime, I may
not have enough impartiality I wish to have.
BTW, where is Mark? I want to hear what he tinks. That guy doesn't read
responses to his question?
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hill [mailto:andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com]
Sent: July 24, 2003 12:12 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
A colleague of mine upon reading the archived message you linked to did a
bit of a search and come up with this thread in which some of those named
set the record straight:
http://www.javalobby.com/threadMode_printfriendly.jsp?forum=61&thread=7034
-----Original Message-----
From: Yansheng Lin [mailto:yansheng.lin@isogis.com]
Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 02:42
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Hi Mark, this is mind-blowing!!! I guess you cannot really ask a Sun's
developer any question on SWT:).
http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00358.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Posted by Andrew Hill <an...@gridnode.com>.
A colleague of mine upon reading the archived message you linked to did a
bit of a search and come up with this thread in which some of those named
set the record straight:
http://www.javalobby.com/threadMode_printfriendly.jsp?forum=61&thread=7034
-----Original Message-----
From: Yansheng Lin [mailto:yansheng.lin@isogis.com]
Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 02:42
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Hi Mark, this is mind-blowing!!! I guess you cannot really ask a Sun's
developer any question on SWT:).
http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00358.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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RE: JSR-198 : (A little history between IBM and Sun's fight)
Posted by Yansheng Lin <ya...@isogis.com>.
Hi Mark, this is mind-blowing!!! I guess you cannot really ask a Sun's
developer any question on SWT:).
http://www.mail-archive.com/jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org/msg00358.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
Sent: July 21, 2003 2:32 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: JSR-198
Craig, Ted, Chuck, etc.:
Can anybody gives a status report on standardizing Java IDE extensions and
whether Eclipse with continue to exclude AWT/Swing in favor of SWT? Or
perhaps SWT will come into the mainstream of Java GUI development? Many
people on this list have asked questions that essentially surround the issue
of ease of use of building client interfaces and integrate into Struts. Is
JSR-198 on the road to accomplishing this?
Mark
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