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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Scott Eade <se...@backstagetech.com.au> on 2002/12/20 14:39:33 UTC
A Jakarta wiki?
About a month ago a discussion occurred over on turbine-user/dev about the
possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation as
well as a place to develop more formal documentation that might perhaps
later be converted to xdoc for direct inclusion in the actual project site.
We discussed setting something up on a non-apache server, but thought we
would first seek an opinion as to whether or not an apache hosted solution
might be a possibility.
To this end, I posted a query to infrastructure@apache.org (quoted below).
The brief discussion that ensued between Brian Behlendorf, Pier Fumagalli
and myself concluded that I was to liaise with Pier to set up a JSPWiki
instance on nagoya. I provided Pier with some information and asked him
what the next steps might be, but unfortunately Pier has become overloaded
with work and has been unable to get back to me (I'm not complaining Pier -
all things take time and time is a limited resource).
Anyway, I have two motivations for mailing the general list:
1. To raise the profile of this request in hope of sparking some action.
2. To gain some feedback as to the desirability of widening the scope of the
wiki beyond turbine. As mentioned below, Cocoon already have an external
(non-apache hosted) wiki. Leo Simons has also indicated that a similar
discussion has recently taken place over on the Avalon lists with the
conclusion being that they too would like to set up a wiki.
So how about some feedback:
1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
4. Hosting - apache.org or external
5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
Cheers,
Scott
--
Scott Eade
Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
http://www.backstagetech.com.au
.Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> On turbine-user & turbine-dev (jakarta) we have been discussing the
> possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation as
> well as a place to develop more formal documentation (perhaps we will
> convert it to xdoc and make it part of the "real" docs once we are happy
> with it).
>
> To this end, we are wondering if it would be possible to establish a wiki
> somewhere on an apache server.
>
> At this stage our desire is for a wiki that provides information about
> turbine and its related projects (torque, fulcrum, etc.), but perhaps the
> entire jakarta or even apache community could benefit from the free flow of
> information that is facilitated by a wiki.
>
> We are open minded about the wiki implementation to be used. There is a
> maven plugin that provides quite a nice customisation of the UseMod wiki. I
> myself have used twiki and am fairly happy with it. Cocoon uses an
> externally hosted JSPWiki which looks pretty good (being a Java person I
> would probably have used this in preference to twiki had I found it
> earlier).
>
> Anyway, what are the chances of getting something set up on an apache
> server?
>
> What would I need to do to get something happening?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Vladimir R. Bossicard" <vl...@apache.org>.
> 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
Apache. XML-Xindice would also like to have a wiki documentation
-Vladimir
--
Vladimir R. Bossicard
Apache Xindice - http://xml.apache.org/xindice
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I'm using the PERL one for several wikis including the TriJUG one
(http://trijug.org)... It took 5 minutes to
set up and requires just rights to some place on the file system. So
far no admin...
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/jugwiki.pl
I tested for dumb things like encoding file names to get it to write to
other places...but its smart. (always writes the
encoded filename in the same place so for example /etc/passwd would
result in something like
%xxetc%xxpasswd being in $DATADIR.. if its allowed as a wiki word at all)
The irony of the JUG wiki running on PERL wasn't lost on some. However
since its running on my server,
being lightweight, easily set-up and 0 administration were my deal.
Technical zealots be dammed.
-Andy
Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote:
>I haven't used JSPWiki, but I have used the Python-based MoinMoin and
>really, really like it.
>
>I just took a quick look at JSPWiki and I wouldn't be surprised if it's
>feature set is based on MoinMoin (or vice-versa, it's always hard to tell).
>It helps with discussions, and provides a temporary home for documentation
>and such.
>
>Part of the Tapestry/Jakarta proposal is a request for a Wiki. Tapestry has
>gotten great mileage out of its Wiki, even those its the completely lame
>PHPWiki (which can be hosted directly on SourceForge, the only reason to use
>it).
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Eade" <se...@backstagetech.com.au>
>To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:39 AM
>Subject: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
>
>
>>About a month ago a discussion occurred over on turbine-user/dev about the
>>possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation
>>
>>
>as
>
>
>>well as a place to develop more formal documentation that might perhaps
>>later be converted to xdoc for direct inclusion in the actual project
>>
>>
>site.
>
>
>>We discussed setting something up on a non-apache server, but thought we
>>would first seek an opinion as to whether or not an apache hosted solution
>>might be a possibility.
>>
>>To this end, I posted a query to infrastructure@apache.org (quoted below).
>>The brief discussion that ensued between Brian Behlendorf, Pier Fumagalli
>>and myself concluded that I was to liaise with Pier to set up a JSPWiki
>>instance on nagoya. I provided Pier with some information and asked him
>>what the next steps might be, but unfortunately Pier has become overloaded
>>with work and has been unable to get back to me (I'm not complaining
>>
>>
>Pier -
>
>
>>all things take time and time is a limited resource).
>>
>>Anyway, I have two motivations for mailing the general list:
>>1. To raise the profile of this request in hope of sparking some action.
>>2. To gain some feedback as to the desirability of widening the scope of
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>wiki beyond turbine. As mentioned below, Cocoon already have an external
>>(non-apache hosted) wiki. Leo Simons has also indicated that a similar
>>discussion has recently taken place over on the Avalon lists with the
>>conclusion being that they too would like to set up a wiki.
>>
>>So how about some feedback:
>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>>
>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>>
>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
>>
>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>>
>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Scott
>>--
>>Scott Eade
>>Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
>>http://www.backstagetech.com.au
>>.Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On turbine-user & turbine-dev (jakarta) we have been discussing the
>>>possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc
>>>
>>>
>documentation as
>
>
>>>well as a place to develop more formal documentation (perhaps we will
>>>convert it to xdoc and make it part of the "real" docs once we are happy
>>>with it).
>>>
>>>To this end, we are wondering if it would be possible to establish a
>>>
>>>
>wiki
>
>
>>>somewhere on an apache server.
>>>
>>>At this stage our desire is for a wiki that provides information about
>>>turbine and its related projects (torque, fulcrum, etc.), but perhaps
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>entire jakarta or even apache community could benefit from the free flow
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>information that is facilitated by a wiki.
>>>
>>>We are open minded about the wiki implementation to be used. There is a
>>>maven plugin that provides quite a nice customisation of the UseMod
>>>
>>>
>wiki. I
>
>
>>>myself have used twiki and am fairly happy with it. Cocoon uses an
>>>externally hosted JSPWiki which looks pretty good (being a Java person I
>>>would probably have used this in preference to twiki had I found it
>>>earlier).
>>>
>>>Anyway, what are the chances of getting something set up on an apache
>>>server?
>>>
>>>What would I need to do to get something happening?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <hl...@attbi.com>.
I haven't used JSPWiki, but I have used the Python-based MoinMoin and
really, really like it.
I just took a quick look at JSPWiki and I wouldn't be surprised if it's
feature set is based on MoinMoin (or vice-versa, it's always hard to tell).
It helps with discussions, and provides a temporary home for documentation
and such.
Part of the Tapestry/Jakarta proposal is a request for a Wiki. Tapestry has
gotten great mileage out of its Wiki, even those its the completely lame
PHPWiki (which can be hosted directly on SourceForge, the only reason to use
it).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Eade" <se...@backstagetech.com.au>
To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:39 AM
Subject: A Jakarta wiki?
> About a month ago a discussion occurred over on turbine-user/dev about the
> possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation
as
> well as a place to develop more formal documentation that might perhaps
> later be converted to xdoc for direct inclusion in the actual project
site.
>
> We discussed setting something up on a non-apache server, but thought we
> would first seek an opinion as to whether or not an apache hosted solution
> might be a possibility.
>
> To this end, I posted a query to infrastructure@apache.org (quoted below).
> The brief discussion that ensued between Brian Behlendorf, Pier Fumagalli
> and myself concluded that I was to liaise with Pier to set up a JSPWiki
> instance on nagoya. I provided Pier with some information and asked him
> what the next steps might be, but unfortunately Pier has become overloaded
> with work and has been unable to get back to me (I'm not complaining
Pier -
> all things take time and time is a limited resource).
>
> Anyway, I have two motivations for mailing the general list:
> 1. To raise the profile of this request in hope of sparking some action.
> 2. To gain some feedback as to the desirability of widening the scope of
the
> wiki beyond turbine. As mentioned below, Cocoon already have an external
> (non-apache hosted) wiki. Leo Simons has also indicated that a similar
> discussion has recently taken place over on the Avalon lists with the
> conclusion being that they too would like to set up a wiki.
>
> So how about some feedback:
> 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>
> 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>
> 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
>
> 4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>
> 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Scott
> --
> Scott Eade
> Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
> http://www.backstagetech.com.au
> .Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> > On turbine-user & turbine-dev (jakarta) we have been discussing the
> > possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc
documentation as
> > well as a place to develop more formal documentation (perhaps we will
> > convert it to xdoc and make it part of the "real" docs once we are happy
> > with it).
> >
> > To this end, we are wondering if it would be possible to establish a
wiki
> > somewhere on an apache server.
> >
> > At this stage our desire is for a wiki that provides information about
> > turbine and its related projects (torque, fulcrum, etc.), but perhaps
the
> > entire jakarta or even apache community could benefit from the free flow
of
> > information that is facilitated by a wiki.
> >
> > We are open minded about the wiki implementation to be used. There is a
> > maven plugin that provides quite a nice customisation of the UseMod
wiki. I
> > myself have used twiki and am fairly happy with it. Cocoon uses an
> > externally hosted JSPWiki which looks pretty good (being a Java person I
> > would probably have used this in preference to twiki had I found it
> > earlier).
> >
> > Anyway, what are the chances of getting something set up on an apache
> > server?
> >
> > What would I need to do to get something happening?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Scott
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>
> > So how about some feedback:
> > 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
+1
> > 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>
Don't care, except for below.
> > 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
>
> One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
> federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one could create a
> "sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
+1. This is the main thing I found a problem with Wiki, global anchors.
A Wiki which supports this [I don't know of any, but didn't hunt hard]
would be great.
> > 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>
> Soon.
+1
Hen
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> James Mitchell wrote:
>
>> No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
>> LOL......ok, we'll leave it at that.
>
>
> You gotta understand Andy, he's got his own language:
>
> - it sucks == I don't get it
Damn. I thought you did understand me Ken -- guess not. I've written
10x as many
JSP pages as most of the JSP-lovers. My first JSP page was in version
0.8 (or so)
with Netscape Application Server. It used to corrupt the pages at
random and require
you to go touch the files (funnnnnn!)...
Before that I was writing ASP pages. JSP sucks slightly less than ASP.
But I prefer to
call JSP: InvertedServlets.
Just because I understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't suck.
>
> - the idea is good but implementation sucks == I'm not able to use it
My ass. This means that conceptually I like it, but that either its
crappy code with 900 levels
of inheritence tree to sort though. It throws random exceptions.
>
> - it sucks but with this and that it sucks less == I'm able to use it
No. It means the suckiness is mitigated.
>
> - it's very good == I wrote it
No. I'm the author of something called SuckyViewer... I don't think
thats justified. If I write something
that sucks I incorporate the suck into its name. Therefore its clearly
labeled (which makes it suck less I suppose).
I renamed it sheet viewer after someone refactored it not to suck anymore.
>
> - you should use it == it simply works, dunno why but I like it
No.. I typically know why.
>
> - it rocks == I've never used it but it makes me salivate
Ummm name something I've noted Rocks that I haven't used?
>
> ;-P
>
<glare>
-Andy
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> James Mitchell wrote:
>
>> No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
>> LOL......ok, we'll leave it at that.
>
>
> You gotta understand Andy, he's got his own language:
>
> - it sucks == I don't get it
> - the idea is good but implementation sucks == I'm not able to use it
> - it sucks but with this and that it sucks less == I'm able to use it
> - it's very good == I wrote it
> - you should use it == it simply works, dunno why but I like it
> - it rocks == I've never used it but it makes me salivate
Oh, I made a mistake, that's me :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
James Mitchell wrote:
> No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
>
> LOL......ok, we'll leave it at that.
You gotta understand Andy, he's got his own language:
- it sucks == I don't get it
- the idea is good but implementation sucks == I'm not able to use it
- it sucks but with this and that it sucks less == I'm able to use it
- it's very good == I wrote it
- you should use it == it simply works, dunno why but I like it
- it rocks == I've never used it but it makes me salivate
;-P
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
> No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
LOL......ok, we'll leave it at that.
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Open Source Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 9:59 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> >
> >
> >>(Not a struts slam, just a "ironic"...struts is the most
> humane way to
> >>
> >>
> >>do JSP...I've used it myself.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I agree. If its one thing that pisses me off, its
> <%=this%>. I cringe
> >every time I see "JSP sucks!!!". I just want to scream "NO,
> YOU HATE
> >IT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO LEARN HOW TO DO IT CORRECTLY!!!!"
> >
> ><wiki msg="Holy Crap!!!! This is FUN!!!!" >
> >http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?StrutsProjectPages
> ></wiki>
> >
> >
> No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
>
> -Andy
>
> >
> >--
> >James Mitchell
> >Software Engineer/Open Source Evangelist http://www.open-tools.org
> >
> >"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder,
> >but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
> >- Bjarne Stroustrup
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>>(Not a struts slam, just a "ironic"...struts is the most humane way to
>>
>>
>>do JSP...I've used it myself.)
>>
>>
>
>I agree. If its one thing that pisses me off, its <%=this%>.
>I cringe every time I see "JSP sucks!!!". I just want to scream "NO,
>YOU HATE IT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO LEARN HOW TO DO IT
>CORRECTLY!!!!"
>
><wiki msg="Holy Crap!!!! This is FUN!!!!" >
>http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?StrutsProjectPages
></wiki>
>
>
No JSP does indeed suck. It just sucks less with Struts.
-Andy
>
>--
>James Mitchell
>Software Engineer/Open Source Evangelist
>http://www.open-tools.org
>
>"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
>when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
>- Bjarne Stroustrup
>
>
--
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
> *looks down at his cookie monster house slippers* ... Okay. I guess
> I'm normal then ;-) (In which case many of y'all are weird) ...
LOL.....my kids have those!!!
> Though the irony of "Anyone who thinks differently is selling
> something" from someone with "Struts Evangelist" written in
> his tag line is kinda funny...
Yes, I've been told on occasion that I'm funny (then they mumble
something that sounds like "looking" ;)
In all honesty, I've been smoking the "Open Source" weed for about 2
years now, and its really gotten intense in the last few months. Guess
I'm just hooked on rollin it the Struts way ;)
Perhaps I should change the flag I fly to the higher cause!! (see
below)
> (Not a struts slam, just a "ironic"...struts is the most humane way to
> do JSP...I've used it myself.)
I agree. If its one thing that pisses me off, its <%=this%>.
I cringe every time I see "JSP sucks!!!". I just want to scream "NO,
YOU HATE IT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO LEARN HOW TO DO IT
CORRECTLY!!!!"
<wiki msg="Holy Crap!!!! This is FUN!!!!" >
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?StrutsProjectPages
</wiki>
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Open Source Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 4:10 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I disagree, that's not odd at all. You've just quoted (more
> or less)
> >every employer/contract I've ever had. Anyone who thinks
> differently
> >is selling something!!!
> >
> >
> >
> *looks down at his cookie monster house slippers* ... Okay. I guess
> I'm normal then ;-) (In which case many of y'all are weird) ...
>
> Though the irony of "Anyone who thinks differently is selling
> something"
> from someone with "Struts Evangelist" written in his tag line
> is kinda
> funny...
>
> (Not a struts slam, just a "ironic"...struts is the most
> humane way to
> do JSP...I've used it myself.)
>
> -Andy
>
> >--
> >James Mitchell
> >Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
> >http://www.open-tools.org
> >
> >"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder,
> >but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
> >- Bjarne Stroustrup
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> >>Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:44 AM
> >>To: Jakarta General List
> >>Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
> >>>
> >>>I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and
> >>>running...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>No reason not to if you have the drive and ambition to set one up
> >>(obviously do so now before too much content is generated).
> This one
> >>has the advantage of being gentle on the server while being
> >>easy to set
> >>up. I literally spent 5 minutes on it.
> >>
> >>I don't actually care what technology my tools are in
> >>provided they work
> >>and meet my requirements, but I'm an odd person.
> >>
> >>-Andy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Pier
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>>
> >>>
> >><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>>For
> >>>
> >>>
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail:
> >>
> >>
> >>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
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> >><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
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> >>additional commands,
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>
>I disagree, that's not odd at all. You've just quoted (more or less)
>every employer/contract I've ever had. Anyone who thinks differently is
>selling something!!!
>
>
>
*looks down at his cookie monster house slippers* ... Okay. I guess
I'm normal then ;-) (In which case many of y'all are weird) ...
Though the irony of "Anyone who thinks differently is selling something"
from someone with "Struts Evangelist" written in his tag line is kinda
funny...
(Not a struts slam, just a "ironic"...struts is the most humane way to
do JSP...I've used it myself.)
-Andy
>--
>James Mitchell
>Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
>http://www.open-tools.org
>
>"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
>when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
>- Bjarne Stroustrup
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:44 AM
>>To: Jakarta General List
>>Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
>>>
>>>I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and
>>>running...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>No reason not to if you have the drive and ambition to set one up
>>(obviously do so now before too much content is generated). This one
>>has the advantage of being gentle on the server while being
>>easy to set
>>up. I literally spent 5 minutes on it.
>>
>>I don't actually care what technology my tools are in
>>provided they work
>>and meet my requirements, but I'm an odd person.
>>
>>-Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>> Pier
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>For
>>>
>>>
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail:
>>
>>
>>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For
>>additional commands,
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>.
> I don't actually care what technology my tools are in provided they
work
> and meet my requirements, but I'm an odd person.
I disagree, that's not odd at all. You've just quoted (more or less)
every employer/contract I've ever had. Anyone who thinks differently is
selling something!!!
--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:44 AM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
> >
> >I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and
> >running...
> >
> >
> No reason not to if you have the drive and ambition to set one up
> (obviously do so now before too much content is generated). This one
> has the advantage of being gentle on the server while being
> easy to set
> up. I literally spent 5 minutes on it.
>
> I don't actually care what technology my tools are in
> provided they work
> and meet my requirements, but I'm an odd person.
>
> -Andy
>
> > Pier
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >For
> additional commands,
> e-mail:
> ><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>
>Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
>
>I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and running...
>
>
No reason not to if you have the drive and ambition to set one up
(obviously do so now before too much content is generated). This one
has the advantage of being gentle on the server while being easy to set
up. I literally spent 5 minutes on it.
I don't actually care what technology my tools are in provided they work
and meet my requirements, but I'm an odd person.
-Andy
> Pier
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
You benefit from my procrastination of my accounting take-home exam.
enjoy ;-)
-Andy the unaccounable one
Scott Eade wrote:
>Thanks Pier and Andrew - you made Andrew's suggested deadline with a week to
>spare ;-)
>
>Scott
>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Scott Eade <se...@backstagetech.com.au>.
Thanks Pier and Andrew - you made Andrew's suggested deadline with a week to
spare ;-)
Scott
--
Scott Eade
Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
http://www.backstagetech.com.au
.Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
On 21/12/2002 5:51 PM, "Pier Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org> wrote:
> On 21/12/02 2:34 "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>>
>>> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
>>> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
>>> with filesystem access?
>>
>> Your definition of "ACTION" is "AskSam"?
>>
>> AFAIK, your authority and mine with respect to being able to execute cgi
>> scripts on a machine like cvs.apache.org are the same. I just did a few
>> tests, and apparently I don't have permission.
>
> That's called defensive programming (ehem... Administration) :-)
>
>>> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>>
>> Not on any BSD machine. You will find a more receptive set of sysadmins
>> on nagoya.
>>
>> In any case, the right place to pursue this is infrastructure@apache.org.
>
> Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
>
> I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and running...
>
> Pier
>
>
> --
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 21/12/02 2:34 "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>
>> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
>> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
>> with filesystem access?
>
> Your definition of "ACTION" is "AskSam"?
>
> AFAIK, your authority and mine with respect to being able to execute cgi
> scripts on a machine like cvs.apache.org are the same. I just did a few
> tests, and apparently I don't have permission.
That's called defensive programming (ehem... Administration) :-)
>> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>
> Not on any BSD machine. You will find a more receptive set of sysadmins
> on nagoya.
>
> In any case, the right place to pursue this is infrastructure@apache.org.
Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/
I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but.... It's up and running...
Pier
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
> Not on any BSD machine. You will find a more receptive set of
> sysadmins on nagoya.
>
> In any case, the right place to pursue this is infrastructure@apache.org.
good point. Thank you sam.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
> --
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
> with filesystem access?
Your definition of "ACTION" is "AskSam"?
AFAIK, your authority and mine with respect to being able to execute cgi
scripts on a machine like cvs.apache.org are the same. I just did a few
tests, and apparently I don't have permission.
> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
Not on any BSD machine. You will find a more receptive set of sysadmins
on nagoya.
In any case, the right place to pursue this is infrastructure@apache.org.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Scott Eade <se...@backstagetech.com.au>.
Andrew,
ACTION is good mm'kay.
I think we should at least consider a Java based wiki:
- JSPWiki at http://www.ecyrd.com/JSPWiki/Wiki.jsp is used by Cocoon (I
installed this locally and had it running in about 5 minutes).
- Micael mentioned Chiki (http://chiki.emaho.org/) - this looks pretty good
too (but I haven't tried installing it yet).
Rodney Waldhoff's comment concerning namespaces is very important. For
JSPWiki I think we would need to go down the "federation of wikis with
intra-wiki links" path (prefixing with project names becomes a PITA fairly
quickly IMO). It looks like Chiki's "nodes" provide independent namespaces,
but it wasn't obvious how to go about creating a node (it is worth looking
into this though as the "federation" model may require more effort to set up
new sub-wikis, but perhaps this is not such a bad thing).
Twiki is an excellent cgi based wiki (http://www.twiki.org), but I think we
are better off adopting a solution that we can more easily contribute to if
we so desire (note that both JSPWiki and Chiki are GPL).
I am unsure of the legal ramifications that Tim O'Brien raises, but the
whole point of wanting a wiki is to allow update access by non-committers.
A more subtle point is whether or not to allow anonymous postings - I myself
prefer people to register before they can make changes, it only takes a few
seconds, and provides at least some form of (albeit easily circumvented)
author trail.
It is excellent to see that you are so keen - targeting the end of next week
sounds great.
Scott
--
Scott Eade
Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
http://www.backstagetech.com.au
.Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
On 21/12/2002 6:25 AM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1
>
> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
> with filesystem access?
>
> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>
> If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
> "security" and set it up by the end of next week.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -Andy
>
> Tom Copeland wrote:
>
>> Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
>>
>> tom
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
>>> To: Jakarta General List
>>> Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So how about some feedback:
>>>> 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to write ad hoc
>>> documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
>>> At my day job
>>> we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
>>> sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
>>> we're fairly
>>> centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
>>> wiki is even
>>> more useful.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
>>> a number of
>>> wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
>>> though). There's a
>>> big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
>>> <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
>>>
>>> (Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
>>> that matters to
>>> anyone.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
>>>>
>>>>
>>> or Apache?
>>>
>>> I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
>>>
>>> One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
>>> federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one could create a
>>> "sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
>>>
>>> For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
>>> Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
>>> plain ol' OracleHowTo.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
>>> name might be
>>> sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
>>> support from some
>>> WikiGnomes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Something internal would seem official.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
>>> another wiki)
>>> for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy to help out
>>> however I can. Please keep me posted, either via jakarta-general, by
>>> pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a direct note.
>>>
>>> - Rod
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>> For
>>> additional commands,
>>> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>I was merely asking if anyone had given a thought to the question of legal
>issues and how they relate to Wiki + ASF. I think that it is a reasonable
>question, and I was surprised that no one had raised this issue. Audit
>trail...?
>
>
The same issues are in the wiki as are in the CVS repository and with
Bugzilla. Anyone could do the things
you say. Is there an audit train, go look. hit Recent changes. The
thing about the wiki is we just delete inapporpriate
content.
Wiki's have a long and proud history and so far as I know have NEVER
gotten anyone sued.
>It is important to keep reminding yourself that Apache is a corporation of
>Delaware, and it is subject to real IP law. If you've been watching some of
>the dev lists I've been watching, there have been some small copyright
>violations of late that, luckily, have been settled amicably. This
>coupled with the fact that ASF wants to start raising more operational funds
>(Attachment A, November board minutes), makes legal questions very
>important. I'd ask you to look up the word "indemnity", and meditate. You
>want FUD? Open source software has *very* well funded enemies. :-(
>
Right, however I don't see how this is any different. Anyone can post
an illegal patch into bugzilla with relative
ease. If that little password thing makes you comfortable, go get a
yahoo address with a fake name and post
the secret sauce in a patch.
I call this FUD because you're concerned with something that hasn't ever
happened before (as far as I know, please
point me to a case if you know otherwise), Ward Cunningham has been
running a wiki for like 10 years or so, you're
concerned with something highly correctable (easily deleteable content).
And lastly the main threat on an Apache wiki is that someone posts
something
from a book on an Apache topic. Somehow I doubt the publisher of such a
book would want to shut Apache down (kinda
hard for them to sell books that way). Any other "IP" would probably be
too off topic and would probably be deleted just by
"WTF does that have to do with anything"... (Not that I think we should
be too strict).
So by the well funded enemies I must presume you mean Microsoft
primarily. Yes if they are our enemy that is a problem indeed.
It seems like something that is particularly remediable. We should seek
their friendship and work on getting some .NET projects
started.
>PS: You are right about Wiki's effective self regulation, I'm astonished
>that Wikipedia still adheres to the neutrality policy on topics that deal
>with current events - (if only major world conflicts could be settled on
>Wiki?). I started a Wikipedia page on Jakarta, it is sparse, and hardly
>accurate SO FIX IT: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_Project
>
>
>
Notice how expansive that wikipedia is? I would presume that
Britannica and friends have a vested interest in not seeing it grow.
AFAIK they have yet to be sued.
Bottom line, we can be sued for anyhthing, there are things that are of
greater risk (hosting source code for instance, I'm sure by now
'IF' statements violate someone's patent somewhere). Wikis have a
proven long track record, and I would rather NOT argue legal
issues with software developers. Its a big fat waste of time. This
isn't a comment on your worth as a human being or whatever, just
IANAL and AFAIK you aren't either, so we both don't know WTF we're
talking about which leads to a conversation of pure conjecture
and speculation which has no logical conclusion. If you honestly feel
this is going to be a problem (despite it never having happened in the
history of the net so far google is aware of), its your right,
responsibility and duty to bring it to the boards attention.
-jAndy.NET
>
>--------
>Tim O'Brien
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:26 PM
>>To: Jakarta General List
>>Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>
>>
>>O'brien, Tim wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions
>>>here,
>>>
>>>Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
>>>
>>>If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
>>>
>>>Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF? If Wiki is
>>>open to the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on
>>>Wiki, who would bear responsibility?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Lets not start with the FUD.. If it happens, we'll remove them.
>>
>>What if someone puts the detailed information on how to
>>produce Anthrax,
>>and hides the
>>secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also
>>brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does
>>currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or
>>velocity running fast...
>>
>>Wiki's self regulate. You'll see.
>>Lets not What if problems that don't exist. Go see
>>http://www.wikipedia.org/ and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki to see
>>what can happen and on what scale, without those things being
>>a problem...
>>
>>Lets be eXtereme just for this and have courage.
>>
>>If wikis are dangerous then Ward Cunningham is an evil evil man.
>>
>>-Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>>--------
>>>Tim O'Brien
>>>W 847-574-2143
>>>M 847-863-7045
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
>>>>To: Jakarta General List
>>>>Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>+1
>>>>
>>>>Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
>>>>rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver
>>>>somewhere with filesystem access?
>>>>
>>>>If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>>>>
>>>>If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
>>>>"security" and set it up by the end of next week.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you,
>>>>
>>>>-Andy
>>>>
>>>>Tom Copeland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
>>>>>
>>>>>tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
>>>>>>To: Jakarta General List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So how about some feedback:
>>>>>>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>write ad hoc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>discussions. At my day
>>
>>
>>>>>>job we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively,
>>>>>>and sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
>>>>>>we're fairly
>>>>>>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
>>>>>>wiki is even
>>>>>>more useful.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be a
>>>>>>number of wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
>>>>>>though). There's a
>>>>>>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
>>>>>><http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if that
>>>>>>matters to
>>>>>>anyone.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>or Apache?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
>>>>>>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>could create a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>Turbine:OracleHowTo
>>
>>
>>>>>>versus plain ol' OracleHowTo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project name
>>>>>>might be sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
>>>>>>support from some
>>>>>>WikiGnomes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Something internal would seem official.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up another
>>>>>>wiki) for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>to help out
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>however I can. Please keep me posted, either via
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>jakarta-general, by
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>direct note.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>- Rod
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>>>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>>>For
>>>>>>additional commands,
>>>>>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>For
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>additional commands,
>>>>e-mail:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>For
>>>>additional commands,
>>>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>For
>>>
>>>
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail:
>>
>>
>>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
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>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "O'brien, Tim" <to...@transolutions.net>.
Again, I watch, and prod....
Andrew, Wiki is a good idea - I've got OJB docs to publish asap. Getting a
committer to notice doc patches can be difficult (programmers rarely love to
stop and write detailed, grammatically correct documentation - we're all
guilty).
I was merely asking if anyone had given a thought to the question of legal
issues and how they relate to Wiki + ASF. I think that it is a reasonable
question, and I was surprised that no one had raised this issue. Audit
trail...?
It is important to keep reminding yourself that Apache is a corporation of
Delaware, and it is subject to real IP law. If you've been watching some of
the dev lists I've been watching, there have been some small copyright
violations of late that, luckily, have been settled amicably. This
coupled with the fact that ASF wants to start raising more operational funds
(Attachment A, November board minutes), makes legal questions very
important. I'd ask you to look up the word "indemnity", and meditate. You
want FUD? Open source software has *very* well funded enemies. :-(
PS: You are right about Wiki's effective self regulation, I'm astonished
that Wikipedia still adheres to the neutrality policy on topics that deal
with current events - (if only major world conflicts could be settled on
Wiki?). I started a Wikipedia page on Jakarta, it is sparse, and hardly
accurate SO FIX IT: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_Project
--------
Tim O'Brien
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:26 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> O'brien, Tim wrote:
>
> >A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions
> >here,
> >
> >Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
> >
> >If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
> >
> >Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF? If Wiki is
> >open to the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on
> >Wiki, who would bear responsibility?
> >
> >
> Lets not start with the FUD.. If it happens, we'll remove them.
>
> What if someone puts the detailed information on how to
> produce Anthrax,
> and hides the
> secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also
> brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does
> currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or
> velocity running fast...
>
> Wiki's self regulate. You'll see.
> Lets not What if problems that don't exist. Go see
> http://www.wikipedia.org/ and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki to see
> what can happen and on what scale, without those things being
> a problem...
>
> Lets be eXtereme just for this and have courage.
>
> If wikis are dangerous then Ward Cunningham is an evil evil man.
>
> -Andy
>
> >--------
> >Tim O'Brien
> >W 847-574-2143
> >M 847-863-7045
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
> >>To: Jakarta General List
> >>Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>
> >>
> >>+1
> >>
> >>Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
> >>rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver
> >>somewhere with filesystem access?
> >>
> >>If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
> >>
> >>If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
> >>"security" and set it up by the end of next week.
> >>
> >>Thank you,
> >>
> >>-Andy
> >>
> >>Tom Copeland wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
> >>>
> >>>tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
> >>>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
> >>>>To: Jakarta General List
> >>>>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>So how about some feedback:
> >>>>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>write ad hoc
> >>
> >>
> >>>>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain
> discussions. At my day
> >>>>job we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively,
> >>>>and sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
> >>>>we're fairly
> >>>>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
> >>>>wiki is even
> >>>>more useful.)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be a
> >>>>number of wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
> >>>>though). There's a
> >>>>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
> >>>><http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if that
> >>>>matters to
> >>>>anyone.)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>or Apache?
> >>>>
> >>>>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
> >>>>
> >>>>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
> >>>>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>could create a
> >>
> >>
> >>>>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
> >>>>
> >>>>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
> Turbine:OracleHowTo
> >>>>versus plain ol' OracleHowTo.
> >>>>
> >>>>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project name
> >>>>might be sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
> >>>>support from some
> >>>>WikiGnomes.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Something internal would seem official.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Soon.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up another
> >>>>wiki) for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>to help out
> >>
> >>
> >>>>however I can. Please keep me posted, either via
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>jakarta-general, by
> >>
> >>
> >>>>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>direct note.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>- Rod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>>>For
> >>>>additional commands,
> >>>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>--
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>>
> >>>
> >><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>>For
> >>>
> >>>
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail:
> >>
> >>
> >>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>For
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >For
> additional commands,
> e-mail:
> ><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>> Lets not start with the FUD.. If it happens, we'll remove them.
>> What if someone puts the detailed information on how to produce
>> Anthrax, and hides the
>> secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also
>> brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does
>> currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or
>> velocity running fast...
>
>
> Then it would be >300x JSP :)
>
>
But it would have to run CIA sniffer code right? ;-)
-Andy
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 09:26 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> O'brien, Tim wrote:
>
>> A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions
>> here,
>>
>> Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
>> If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
>>
>> Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF? If Wiki is
>> open to
>> the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on Wiki,
>> who would
>> bear responsibility?
>>
> Lets not start with the FUD.. If it happens, we'll remove them.
> What if someone puts the detailed information on how to produce
> Anthrax, and hides the
> secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also
> brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does
> currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or
> velocity running fast...
Then it would be >300x JSP :)
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
O'brien, Tim wrote:
>A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions here,
>
>Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
>
>If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
>
>Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF? If Wiki is open to
>the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on Wiki, who would
>bear responsibility?
>
>
Lets not start with the FUD.. If it happens, we'll remove them.
What if someone puts the detailed information on how to produce Anthrax,
and hides the
secret location of Osama Bin Ladin in a patch submitted which also
brilliantly makes Velocity run 300x faster than it does
currently so that we have to choose between making the CIA happy or
velocity running fast...
Wiki's self regulate. You'll see.
Lets not What if problems that don't exist. Go see
http://www.wikipedia.org/ and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki to see what can happen
and on what scale, without those things being a problem...
Lets be eXtereme just for this and have courage.
If wikis are dangerous then Ward Cunningham is an evil evil man.
-Andy
>--------
>Tim O'Brien
>W 847-574-2143
>M 847-863-7045
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
>>To: Jakarta General List
>>Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>
>>
>>+1
>>
>>Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
>>rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver
>>somewhere with filesystem access?
>>
>>If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>>
>>If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
>>"security" and set it up by the end of next week.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>-Andy
>>
>>Tom Copeland wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
>>>
>>>tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
>>>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
>>>>To: Jakarta General List
>>>>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So how about some feedback:
>>>>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to
>>>>
>>>>
>>write ad hoc
>>
>>
>>>>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
>>>>At my day job
>>>>we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
>>>>sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
>>>>we're fairly
>>>>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
>>>>wiki is even
>>>>more useful.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
>>>>a number of
>>>>wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
>>>>though). There's a
>>>>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
>>>><http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
>>>>
>>>>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
>>>>that matters to
>>>>anyone.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>or Apache?
>>>>
>>>>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
>>>>
>>>>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
>>>>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one
>>>>
>>>>
>>could create a
>>
>>
>>>>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
>>>>
>>>>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
>>>>Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
>>>>plain ol' OracleHowTo.
>>>>
>>>>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
>>>>name might be
>>>>sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
>>>>support from some
>>>>WikiGnomes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Something internal would seem official.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
>>>>another wiki)
>>>>for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy
>>>>
>>>>
>>to help out
>>
>>
>>>>however I can. Please keep me posted, either via
>>>>
>>>>
>>jakarta-general, by
>>
>>
>>>>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a
>>>>
>>>>
>>direct note.
>>
>>
>>>>- Rod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>For
>>>>additional commands,
>>>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>>>
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>>For
>>>
>>>
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail:
>>
>>
>>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>
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RE: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "O'brien, Tim" <to...@transolutions.net>.
A non-member, non-commiter, doc patch submitter with three questions here,
Would this Wiki be limited to those with commit status?
If not, how does this jive with the whole merit-based Apache-way?
Does a public wiki have any legal ramifications for ASF? If Wiki is open to
the public and someone puts GPL'd or copyrighted material on Wiki, who would
bear responsibility?
--------
Tim O'Brien
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:26 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> +1
>
> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver
> somewhere with filesystem access?
>
> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
>
> If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
> "security" and set it up by the end of next week.
>
> Thank you,
>
> -Andy
>
> Tom Copeland wrote:
>
> >Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
> >
> >tom
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
> >>To: Jakarta General List
> >>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
> >>
> >>
> >>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>So how about some feedback:
> >>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to
> write ad hoc
> >>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
> >>At my day job
> >>we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
> >>sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
> >>we're fairly
> >>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
> >>wiki is even
> >>more useful.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
> >>a number of
> >>wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
> >>though). There's a
> >>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
> >><http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
> >>
> >>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
> >>that matters to
> >>anyone.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
> >>>
> >>>
> >>or Apache?
> >>
> >>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
> >>
> >>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
> >>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one
> could create a
> >>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
> >>
> >>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
> >>Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
> >>plain ol' OracleHowTo.
> >>
> >>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
> >>name might be
> >>sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
> >>support from some
> >>WikiGnomes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Something internal would seem official.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Soon.
> >>
> >>
> >>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
> >>another wiki)
> >>for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy
> to help out
> >>however I can. Please keep me posted, either via
> jakarta-general, by
> >>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a
> direct note.
> >>
> >> - Rod
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>For
> >>additional commands,
> >>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> >For
> additional commands,
> e-mail:
> ><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
+1
Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
with filesystem access?
If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
If so. I will select one based on ease of maintenence, setup,
"security" and set it up by the end of next week.
Thank you,
-Andy
Tom Copeland wrote:
>Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
>
>tom
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
>>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
>>To: Jakarta General List
>>Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>>
>>
>>On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>So how about some feedback:
>>>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>>>
>>>
>>Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to write ad hoc
>>documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
>>At my day job
>>we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
>>sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
>>we're fairly
>>centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
>>wiki is even
>>more useful.)
>>
>>
>>
>>>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>>>
>>>
>>Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
>>a number of
>>wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
>>though). There's a
>>big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
>><http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
>>
>>(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
>>that matters to
>>anyone.)
>>
>>
>>
>>>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
>>>
>>>
>>or Apache?
>>
>>I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
>>
>>One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
>>federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one could create a
>>"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
>>
>>For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
>>Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
>>plain ol' OracleHowTo.
>>
>>Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
>>name might be
>>sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
>>support from some
>>WikiGnomes.
>>
>>
>>
>>>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>>>
>>>
>>Something internal would seem official.
>>
>>
>>
>>>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>>>
>>>
>>Soon.
>>
>>
>>If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
>>another wiki)
>>for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy to help out
>>however I can. Please keep me posted, either via jakarta-general, by
>>pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a direct note.
>>
>> - Rod
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For
>>additional commands,
>>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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RE: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Tom Copeland <to...@infoether.com>.
Love 'em. Let's pick one and set it up... they're very cool....
tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodney Waldhoff [mailto:rwaldhoff@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:36 PM
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: A Jakarta wiki?
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
>
> > So how about some feedback:
> > 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>
> Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to write ad hoc
> documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions.
> At my day job
> we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
> sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And
> we're fairly
> centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a
> wiki is even
> more useful.)
>
> > 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>
> Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be
> a number of
> wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java
> though). There's a
> big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
> <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
>
> (Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if
> that matters to
> anyone.)
>
> > 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta
> or Apache?
>
> I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
>
> One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
> federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one could create a
> "sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
>
> For example, a intra-wiki link might look like
> Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
> plain ol' OracleHowTo.
>
> Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project
> name might be
> sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need
> support from some
> WikiGnomes.
>
> > 4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>
> Something internal would seem official.
>
> > 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>
> Soon.
>
>
> If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up
> another wiki)
> for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy to help out
> however I can. Please keep me posted, either via jakarta-general, by
> pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a direct note.
>
> - Rod
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:general-> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For
> additional commands,
> e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> So how about some feedback:
> 1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
Love 'em, and think they would provide (a) a good way to write ad hoc
documentation, (b) a good way to host certain discussions. At my day job
we use an internal wiki for documentation almost exclusively, and
sometimes as an effective public brainstorming tool. (And we're fairly
centrally located--for distributed, asynchronous discussion a wiki is even
more useful.)
> 2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
Never used it, so no real opinion, although there seem to be a number of
wiki's that are much more popular (perhaps not in java though). There's a
big list of wiki impls on Ward's Wiki at
<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, of course.
(Most wiki clones, JSPWiki included, seem to be GPLed, if that matters to
anyone.)
> 3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
I'd like to see a wiki with at least jakarta scope.
One option might be to use a wiki that supports "namespaces", or a
federation of wikis with intra-wiki links, so that one could create a
"sub-wiki" per project but still support "global" cross-linking.
For example, a intra-wiki link might look like Turbine:OracleHowTo versus
plain ol' OracleHowTo.
Alternatively, a simple convention of prefixing the project name might be
sufficient for a shared wiki namespace, but might need support from some
WikiGnomes.
> 4. Hosting - apache.org or external
Something internal would seem official.
> 5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
Soon.
If I can use this wiki (or this makes it easier to set up another wiki)
for other jakarta/apache projects, I'd be more than happy to help out
however I can. Please keep me posted, either via jakarta-general, by
pointing out where this discussion is happening, or via a direct note.
- Rod
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Re: A Jakarta wiki?
Posted by Micael <ca...@harbornet.com>.
I suppose it is otoise whether or not you have looked at Chiki?
At 12:39 AM 12/21/02 +1100, you wrote:
>About a month ago a discussion occurred over on turbine-user/dev about the
>possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc documentation as
>well as a place to develop more formal documentation that might perhaps
>later be converted to xdoc for direct inclusion in the actual project site.
>
>We discussed setting something up on a non-apache server, but thought we
>would first seek an opinion as to whether or not an apache hosted solution
>might be a possibility.
>
>To this end, I posted a query to infrastructure@apache.org (quoted below).
>The brief discussion that ensued between Brian Behlendorf, Pier Fumagalli
>and myself concluded that I was to liaise with Pier to set up a JSPWiki
>instance on nagoya. I provided Pier with some information and asked him
>what the next steps might be, but unfortunately Pier has become overloaded
>with work and has been unable to get back to me (I'm not complaining Pier -
>all things take time and time is a limited resource).
>
>Anyway, I have two motivations for mailing the general list:
>1. To raise the profile of this request in hope of sparking some action.
>2. To gain some feedback as to the desirability of widening the scope of the
>wiki beyond turbine. As mentioned below, Cocoon already have an external
>(non-apache hosted) wiki. Leo Simons has also indicated that a similar
>discussion has recently taken place over on the Avalon lists with the
>conclusion being that they too would like to set up a wiki.
>
>So how about some feedback:
>1. Wiki's - love 'em or hate 'em?
>
>2. JSPWiki - good choice or bad choice?
>
>3. Scope of the wiki(s) - ((Turbine) and (Avalon)), Jakarta or Apache?
>
>4. Hosting - apache.org or external
>
>5. Timing - now, soon, later or never
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Scott
>--
>Scott Eade
>Backstage Technologies Pty. Ltd.
>http://www.backstagetech.com.au
>.Mac Chat/AIM: seade at mac dot com
>
>
>On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Scott Eade wrote:
> > On turbine-user & turbine-dev (jakarta) we have been discussing the
> > possibility of setting up a wiki to use for creating ad hoc
> documentation as
> > well as a place to develop more formal documentation (perhaps we will
> > convert it to xdoc and make it part of the "real" docs once we are happy
> > with it).
> >
> > To this end, we are wondering if it would be possible to establish a wiki
> > somewhere on an apache server.
> >
> > At this stage our desire is for a wiki that provides information about
> > turbine and its related projects (torque, fulcrum, etc.), but perhaps the
> > entire jakarta or even apache community could benefit from the free flow of
> > information that is facilitated by a wiki.
> >
> > We are open minded about the wiki implementation to be used. There is a
> > maven plugin that provides quite a nice customisation of the UseMod
> wiki. I
> > myself have used twiki and am fairly happy with it. Cocoon uses an
> > externally hosted JSPWiki which looks pretty good (being a Java person I
> > would probably have used this in preference to twiki had I found it
> > earlier).
> >
> > Anyway, what are the chances of getting something set up on an apache
> > server?
> >
> > What would I need to do to get something happening?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Scott
> >
>
>
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