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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira <ta...@yahoo.com.br> on 2005/12/29 05:20:53 UTC
Struts Shale
Hi everybody I am saying hi from Brazil I am a Computer Science Student
intending to understand better the MVC model and starting a new project
with some friends here, I hope I can get some help from here and help
whenever I can ;-) . To start here goes a question(some questions :-)
actually):
Is Shale Framework 1.0.0 already considered stable?
I intend to start a new project and I am looking for a framework to use Is
that the best choice?
I mean The shale framework is always the best choice for a new project,
considering that the development team does not have experience using MVC
frameworks?
Thank You all
+--------------------------------------------+
| Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira |
| Acadêmico de Ciência da Computação Unit-SE |
| htttp://www.notnet.blogspot.com |
+--------------------------------------------+
"Sou absolutamente contrário a qualquer religião que diga que
uma fé é superior a outra. E não vejo como isso pode ser em nada
diferente de um racismo espiritual. É um modo de dizer que nós estamos
mais perto de Deus que você, e é isso que leva ao ódio"
Schumley Boteach, rabino
_______________________________________________________
Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html
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Re: Struts Shale
Posted by Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>.
On 12/28/05, Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira <ta...@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> I mean The shale framework is always the best choice for a new project,
> considering that the development team does not have experience using MVC
> frameworks?
The tipping point is whether you want to JavaServerFaces.
* http://www.jsfcentral.com/
If you do, then for simple applications, JSF is liable to be all that
you need, and the Sun Studio Creator can help you get started.
* http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator/index.jsp
JSF is a specification, and aside from the Sum implementation, there
is also a Apache implementation of the JSF specification.
* http://myfaces.apache.org/
Of course, JSF is still new, and not everyone is ready to use it yet.
Now that we have JSTL, for a very simple application with a handful of
pages, standard JSPs and JSTL can be enough, and you may not need a
framework at all.
* http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/jstl/
If you do need to write a larger application with dozens of pages, and
the application is destined to grow over time, then you will probably
need something like Struts. The larger the application, and longer it
needs to be maintained, the more you need a proven framework.
Aside from Struts Shale and Struts Action, there are several other
frameworks you might want to try. We list several of these on the
Struts sidebar. For a Struts alternative, the three most likely
suspects would be:
* Jakarta Tapestry - http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/
* OS WebWork - http://www.opensymphony.com/webwork/
* Spring MVC - http://www.springframework.org/docs/reference/mvc.html
Other up-and-comers, with their own unique qualities, are
* Stripes - http://stripes.mc4j.org/confluence/display/stripes/Home
* Wicket - http://wicket.sourceforge.net/
If you are planning a serious application, then do be sure to take a
hard look at AppFuse
* AppFuse - http://raibledesigns.com/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=AppFuse
An interesting class project might be to dissect Roller, a
full-featured, real-life, enterprise-grade Struts application
* Roller - http://www.rollerweblogger.org/page/project
Welcome to interesting times! :)
-Ted.
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Re: Struts Shale
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
Hello, Tadeu,
Welcome to the wacky world of computers. 'Hope you do well. There is no
MVC model with networked applications, because there is no immediate
feedback between the controller and the view, i.e., when the controller
changes data the view is not automatically changed because the view in
networking (with browsers) is a pull, not a push, architecture. So, if you
were a lot more detailed about what you want to do, that would help.
The Shale framework, after many, many years of JSF is in its baby stages.
If you want to use a mature framework, that is up to date, for what you are
doing, use Spring. Craig is right that different objectives require
different solutions, and no one is saying the opposite, despite his
implications. However, Shale is just not ready for prime time and you will
be using what is essentially an experimental and questionable application if
you buy into Shale.
You might want to read Rod Johnson on Shale and JSF, if you want to google
around.
Best wishes!
On 12/28/05, Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira <ta...@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody I am saying hi from Brazil I am a Computer Science Student
> intending to understand better the MVC model and starting a new project
> with some friends here, I hope I can get some help from here and help
> whenever I can ;-) . To start here goes a question(some questions :-)
> actually):
>
> Is Shale Framework 1.0.0 already considered stable?
> I intend to start a new project and I am looking for a framework to use Is
> that the best choice?
> I mean The shale framework is always the best choice for a new project,
> considering that the development team does not have experience using MVC
> frameworks?
>
> Thank You all
>
> +--------------------------------------------+
> | Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira |
> | Acadêmico de Ciência da Computação Unit-SE |
> | htttp://www.notnet.blogspot.com |
> +--------------------------------------------+
> "Sou absolutamente contrário a qualquer religião que diga que
> uma fé é superior a outra. E não vejo como isso pode ser em nada
> diferente de um racismo espiritual. É um modo de dizer que nós estamos
> mais perto de Deus que você, e é isso que leva ao ódio"
> Schumley Boteach, rabino
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
> http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts Shale
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
There is nothing "non-binary" about fractals. A fractal is just a
fractional dimension. Maybe you were thinking of Chaos Mathematics,
however, that is not "non-binary" either. In fact, binary coding has
nothing to do with "yes" or "no" questions. This should be obvious when we
realize that Braille and Morse Codes are binary and certainly include
"maybe" along with every other word in Gods Green Acres. This is a mistaken
understanding of binary as well as fractals.
I will respond to the real question by the object of Craig's understanding
of math in the next post. I just don't want computer science students to
start with this idea of binary, etc., and get off on the wrong track.
On 12/28/05, Craig McClanahan <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> The stability of Shale APIs is not a binary ("yes" or "no") question :-).
> Indeed, the fact that the world is fractal, not binary, is a lesson I wish
> all Computer Science students would learn earlier rather than later ...
> there is no absolute "best" or "worst" choice for a new project, without
> understanding what the requirements of that partcular project include.
>
> Craig
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts Shale
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@apache.org>.
On 12/28/05, Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira <ta...@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody I am saying hi from Brazil I am a Computer Science Student
> intending to understand better the MVC model and starting a new project
> with some friends here, I hope I can get some help from here and help
> whenever I can ;-) . To start here goes a question(some questions :-)
> actually):
>
> Is Shale Framework 1.0.0 already considered stable?
> I intend to start a new project and I am looking for a framework to use Is
> that the best choice?
> I mean The shale framework is always the best choice for a new project,
> considering that the development team does not have experience using MVC
> frameworks?
The stability of Shale APIs is not a binary ("yes" or "no") question :-).
Indeed, the fact that the world is fractal, not binary, is a lesson I wish
all Computer Science students would learn earlier rather than later ...
there is no absolute "best" or "worst" choice for a new project, without
understanding what the requirements of that partcular project include.
That being said, some indication of the stability expectations for the
various APIs that Shale provides can be found at:
http://struts.apache.org/struts-shale/api-stability.html
Thank You all
>
> +--------------------------------------------+
> | Tadeu Ferreira Oliveira |
> | Acadêmico de Ciência da Computação Unit-SE |
> | htttp://www.notnet.blogspot.com |
> +--------------------------------------------+
> "Sou absolutamente contrário a qualquer religião que diga que
> uma fé é superior a outra. E não vejo como isso pode ser em nada
> diferente de um racismo espiritual. É um modo de dizer que nós estamos
> mais perto de Deus que você, e é isso que leva ao ódio"
> Schumley Boteach, rabino
Craig