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Posted to dev@jena.apache.org by Andy Seaborne <an...@epimorphics.com> on 2011/03/14 15:29:45 UTC
project wiki
Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and a
wiki would be a good place for this.
Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena isn't
one of them!
2/ MoinMoin?
Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check, do
we want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change -
and esp before we start to use it for content).
Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any MoinMoin
wiki mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki somewhere?
Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ and there is a bit pf careful page
naming? Libcloud seem to have some pages on the MoinMoin wiki but there
aren't a obvious set of project, not incubator admin, pages in the
recent changes.
Andy
Re: project wiki
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Ops... sorry: I missed the "never".
I apologize.
Thanks,
Paolo
Paolo Castagna wrote:
> Benson Margulies wrote:
>> On other project with Confluence, I've never seen a problem worse than
>> trivial.
>
> Hi Benson,
> could you be more explicit on this?
> What do you mean with "a problem worse than trivial"?
> What's the problem?
>
> Paolo
Re: project wiki
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Benson Margulies wrote:
> On other project with Confluence, I've never seen a problem worse than trivial.
Hi Benson,
could you be more explicit on this?
What do you mean with "a problem worse than trivial"?
What's the problem?
Paolo
Re: project wiki
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Again, I'm just trying to report some experience. On the ws project,
the MoinMoin wiki suffers quite regular attacks, including automated
attacks that add strange pages and attachments.
On other project with Confluence, I've never seen a problem worse than trivial.
Re: project wiki
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@epimorphics.com>.
On 16/03/11 20:28, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 16/03/2011 20:08, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> Because confluence requires a registration and login.
>
> So does MoinMoin if you want it to.
>
> Ross
>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Paolo Castagna
>> <ca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Benson.
>>>
>>> Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone.
>>>
>>> Do you know why MoinMoin is more spam-prone than Confluence?
>>>
>>> Paolo
>>>
>
I've started using confluence (one page) but if we go for MoinMoin I'll
transfer the page - it's quite simple.
MoinMoin has a "discussion" page for each page. Not the same as
"comments" but similar.
Andy
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 16/03/2011 20:08, Benson Margulies wrote:
> Because confluence requires a registration and login.
So does MoinMoin if you want it to.
Ross
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Paolo Castagna
> <ca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Benson.
>>
>> Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>
>>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone.
>>
>> Do you know why MoinMoin is more spam-prone than Confluence?
>>
>> Paolo
>>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Because confluence requires a registration and login.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Paolo Castagna
<ca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi Benson.
>
> Benson Margulies wrote:
>>
>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone.
>
> Do you know why MoinMoin is more spam-prone than Confluence?
>
> Paolo
>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Hi Benson.
Benson Margulies wrote:
> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone.
Do you know why MoinMoin is more spam-prone than Confluence?
Paolo
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/03/2011 15:00, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> Thx - nearest I have found so far is three projects classified under
> Incubator on http://wiki.apache.org/ but none are in incubation:
>
> This is on the incubator site with some careful naming:
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Depot
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/ says it's per-projects MoinMoin projects but
> seems to be for proper projects. I'll ask INFRA.
No need to ask, if you want a MoinMoin you can have one. You already
have confluence, but people have not had their contributor bits turned
on yet.
If you want it open to all registered users then that can be done.
Ross
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 14/03/11 14:38, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> Andy,
>>
>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
>> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
>> remark comes back.
>>
>> For the web site proper, there is an option related to Confluence that
>> I can't recall if I've mentioned. Dan Kulp of CXF has created a
>> replacement export mechanism that avoids the dreaded 'export plugin.'
>> We believe that this offers an option to conform to infra@'s desires
>> without using their new CMS. It's not clear to me that all the
>> possible flying objects on that subject have flown. I can ask Dan.
>>
>> --benson
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Andy Seaborne
>> <an...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
>>> Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
>>> complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and
>>> a wiki
>>> would be a good place for this.
>>>
>>> Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
>>>
>>> 1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
>>>
>>> I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena
>>> isn't one
>>> of them!
>>>
>>> 2/ MoinMoin?
>>>
>>> Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check,
>>> do we
>>> want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change -
>>> and esp
>>> before we start to use it for content).
>>>
>>> Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any
>>> MoinMoin wiki
>>> mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
>>>
>>> The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki
>>> somewhere?
>>>
>>> Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
>>> and there is a bit pf careful page naming? Libcloud seem to have some
>>> pages
>>> on the MoinMoin wiki but there aren't a obvious set of project, not
>>> incubator admin, pages in the recent changes.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
--
rgardler@apache.org
@rgardler
Re: project wiki
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@epimorphics.com>.
Thx - nearest I have found so far is three projects classified under
Incubator on http://wiki.apache.org/ but none are in incubation:
This is on the incubator site with some careful naming:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/Depot
http://wiki.apache.org/ says it's per-projects MoinMoin projects but
seems to be for proper projects. I'll ask INFRA.
Andy
On 14/03/11 14:38, Benson Margulies wrote:
> Andy,
>
> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
> remark comes back.
>
> For the web site proper, there is an option related to Confluence that
> I can't recall if I've mentioned. Dan Kulp of CXF has created a
> replacement export mechanism that avoids the dreaded 'export plugin.'
> We believe that this offers an option to conform to infra@'s desires
> without using their new CMS. It's not clear to me that all the
> possible flying objects on that subject have flown. I can ask Dan.
>
> --benson
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Andy Seaborne
> <an...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
>> Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
>> complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and a wiki
>> would be a good place for this.
>>
>> Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
>>
>> 1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
>>
>> I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena isn't one
>> of them!
>>
>> 2/ MoinMoin?
>>
>> Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check, do we
>> want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change - and esp
>> before we start to use it for content).
>>
>> Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any MoinMoin wiki
>> mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
>>
>> The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki somewhere?
>>
>> Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
>> and there is a bit pf careful page naming? Libcloud seem to have some pages
>> on the MoinMoin wiki but there aren't a obvious set of project, not
>> incubator admin, pages in the recent changes.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
> ...
>
>>> Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
>>> for editing in a wiki style.
>>
>> I don't really care that much but I use MoinMoin elsewhere (W3C).
>>
>> IIRC we choose Confluence because we might use it for the site. We're
>> not going to AFAIK so before we input content; what are your thoughts on
>> MoinMoin?
>
> As long as Confluence is not used for the public site we can make it
> publicly editable.
OK, now I get it. If Jena really wanted to use confluence for the
public site, presumably we could have two spaces in confluence; a wiki
space writable by all, and a site-source space writable only by people
with an icla?
>
> I don't have any strong feelings about MoinMoin or Confluence.
>
> Ross
>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/03/2011 15:07, Andy Seaborne wrote:
>
>
> On 14/03/11 14:46, Ross Gardler wrote:
...
>> Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
>> for editing in a wiki style.
>
> I don't really care that much but I use MoinMoin elsewhere (W3C).
>
> IIRC we choose Confluence because we might use it for the site. We're
> not going to AFAIK so before we input content; what are your thoughts on
> MoinMoin?
As long as Confluence is not used for the public site we can make it
publicly editable.
I don't have any strong feelings about MoinMoin or Confluence.
Ross
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/03/2011 15:31, Andy Seaborne wrote:
>
>
> On 14/03/11 15:20, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> but at present the admin on the site is Dave
>
> Could you add me (and any other project committer who relies) so we
> spread the admin.
Done.
In fact we weren't set up to have an admin group, this will be because
because we don't need one since we are not likely to use it for site
generation.
I've verified that the exiting group (jena-committers) has space admin
rights.
To get to the admin pages, go to any page on the jena space and select
"Browse -> Space Admin"
Ross
Re: project wiki
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@epimorphics.com>.
On 14/03/11 15:20, Ross Gardler wrote:
> but at present the admin on the site is Dave
Could you add me (and any other project committer who relies) so we
spread the admin.
thanks,
Andy
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/03/2011 15:14, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>> Andy,
>>>>
>>>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
>>>> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
>>>> remark comes back.
>>>
>>> This is not an infra issue.
>>>
>>> The confluence admins need to add you to the confluence space. I just
>>> did that.
>
> I have trouble keeping track of what things are adminned inside the
> incubator and what falls out to INFRA.
It's not an Incubator thing, it's a project thing. Once a Confluence or
JIRA space is set up for a project then the project owns the space and
can set their own access rights.
It so happens that I have admin privs on Confluence and so I can edit
the Jena instance without having additional bits flipped, but at present
the admin on the site is Dave.
>>> Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
>>> for editing in a wiki style.
>
> I'm confused by this statement.
If you use confluence as your public site then you must have a CLA on
file for everyone with write access to your confluence instance. If you
don't make it your official source of documentation then you can can
give public access (i.e. true wiki style)
Ross
Re: project wiki
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
>>> Andy,
>>>
>>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
>>> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
>>> remark comes back.
>>
>> This is not an infra issue.
>>
>> The confluence admins need to add you to the confluence space. I just
>> did that.
I have trouble keeping track of what things are adminned inside the
incubator and what falls out to INFRA.
>
>> Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
>> for editing in a wiki style.
I'm confused by this statement.
>
> I don't really care that much but I use MoinMoin elsewhere (W3C).
>
> IIRC we choose Confluence because we might use it for the site. We're not
> going to AFAIK so before we input content; what are your thoughts on
> MoinMoin?
>
> Andy
>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ian Dickinson <ia...@epimorphics.com>.
On 14/03/11 15:07, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> Just to be clear: we're not using Confluence for the site (unless Ian
> says otherwise).
Wasn't planning to. I've been pulled off on some other projects &
activities recently, but hope to spend a bit of quality time with the
web site and in particular a revised IA proposal "real soon now"
Ian
--
____________________________________________________________
Ian Dickinson Epimorphics Ltd, Bristol, UK
mailto:ian@epimorphics.com http://www.epimorphics.com
cell: +44-7786-850536 landline: +44-1275-399069
------------------------------------------------------------
Epimorphics Ltd. is a limited company registered in England
(no. 7016688). Registered address: Court Lodge, 105 High St,
Portishead, Bristol BS20 6PT, UK
Re: project wiki
Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@epimorphics.com>.
On 14/03/11 14:46, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 14/03/2011 14:38, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> Andy,
>>
>> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
>> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
>> remark comes back.
>
> This is not an infra issue.
>
> The confluence admins need to add you to the confluence space. I just
> did that.
Thanks.
I do now have "Edit" and "Create Page" options.
> If others need access send me your confluence ID's
>
>> For the web site proper, there is an option related to Confluence that
>> I can't recall if I've mentioned. Dan Kulp of CXF has created a
>> replacement export mechanism that avoids the dreaded 'export plugin.'
Just to be clear: we're not using Confluence for the site (unless Ian
says otherwise).
> Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
> for editing in a wiki style.
I don't really care that much but I use MoinMoin elsewhere (W3C).
IIRC we choose Confluence because we might use it for the site. We're
not going to AFAIK so before we input content; what are your thoughts on
MoinMoin?
Andy
Re: project wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 14/03/2011 14:38, Benson Margulies wrote:
> Andy,
>
> The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
> confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
> remark comes back.
This is not an infra issue.
The confluence admins need to add you to the confluence space. I just
did that.
If others need access send me your confluence ID's
> For the web site proper, there is an option related to Confluence that
> I can't recall if I've mentioned. Dan Kulp of CXF has created a
> replacement export mechanism that avoids the dreaded 'export plugin.'
Infra are removing support for Confluence exports as main sites.
> We believe that this offers an option to conform to infra@'s desires
> without using their new CMS. It's not clear to me that all the
> possible flying objects on that subject have flown. I can ask Dan.
-0 on using confluence for the main site (even if this does get around
the infra@s desires. I don't think it is a good idea to work outside the
support infrastructure, it puts more support overhead on us.
Furthermore, it means we can't open confluence up to the general public
for editing in a wiki style.
Ross
>
> --benson
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Andy Seaborne
> <an...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
>> Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
>> complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and a wiki
>> would be a good place for this.
>>
>> Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
>>
>> 1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
>>
>> I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena isn't one
>> of them!
>>
>> 2/ MoinMoin?
>>
>> Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check, do we
>> want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change - and esp
>> before we start to use it for content).
>>
>> Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any MoinMoin wiki
>> mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
>>
>> The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki somewhere?
>>
>> Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
>> and there is a bit pf careful page naming? Libcloud seem to have some pages
>> on the MoinMoin wiki but there aren't a obvious set of project, not
>> incubator admin, pages in the recent changes.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
--
rgardler@apache.org
@rgardler
Re: project wiki
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Andy,
The MoinMoin wiki is very spam-prone. You should have access to the
confluence space, if not, open an INFRA JIRA and see what sarcastic
remark comes back.
For the web site proper, there is an option related to Confluence that
I can't recall if I've mentioned. Dan Kulp of CXF has created a
replacement export mechanism that avoids the dreaded 'export plugin.'
We believe that this offers an option to conform to infra@'s desires
without using their new CMS. It's not clear to me that all the
possible flying objects on that subject have flown. I can ask Dan.
--benson
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Andy Seaborne
<an...@epimorphics.com> wrote:
> Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
> complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and a wiki
> would be a good place for this.
>
> Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
>
> 1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
>
> I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena isn't one
> of them!
>
> 2/ MoinMoin?
>
> Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check, do we
> want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change - and esp
> before we start to use it for content).
>
> Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any MoinMoin wiki
> mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
>
> The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki somewhere?
>
> Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/
> and there is a bit pf careful page naming? Libcloud seem to have some pages
> on the MoinMoin wiki but there aren't a obvious set of project, not
> incubator admin, pages in the recent changes.
>
> Andy
>
>
Re: project wiki
Posted by Damian Steer <d....@bristol.ac.uk>.
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On 16/03/11 14:52, Paolo Castagna wrote:
> If I remember correctly, Damian gave a preference for Confluence (but
> at the moment I am not finding his email... so, don't take my word for
> it, I could be wrong).
Yep. Largely irrelevant for this case, but the 'comments' feature is
very useful.
Damian
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Re: project wiki
Posted by Paolo Castagna <ca...@googlemail.com>.
Andy Seaborne wrote:
> Paolo and I are about to embark on a joint project. It's sufficiently
> complicated, we are going to start with a written design document and a
> wiki would be a good place for this.
>
> Apache Jena has a Confluence wiki.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JENA/Index
>
> 1/ I have a Confluence id but how do I get write access to the wiki?
>
> I seem to have "add page" access to quite a lot of wikis but Jena isn't
> one of them!
>
> 2/ MoinMoin?
When it comes to wikis, for me "less is more". The less features, less
clutter from the UI, less options in the syntax, the better.
I've used MoinMoin in the past, I tried to use Confluence in the past
and IMHO it tends on the "more" side rather than the "less".
If I remember correctly, Damian gave a preference for Confluence (but
at the moment I am not finding his email... so, don't take my word for
it, I could be wrong).
Personally, I quite like the simple and clean approach of the current
wiki: http://www.openjena.org/wiki/Main_Page, unfortunately, MediaWiki
does not seem to be an option in Apache. Am I correct?
Paolo
> Now as have decided to use CMS for the wbesite, and as a final check, do
> we want to use Confluence? (if it's not too much of a pain to change -
> and esp before we start to use it for content).
>
> Sampling the incubator projects project pages I don't see any MoinMoin
> wiki mentioned (many don't mention a wiki at all).
>
> The alternative is MoinMoin. Do we already have a MoinMoin wiki somewhere?
>
> Or is there one MoinMoin incunator wiki at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ and there is a bit pf careful page
> naming? Libcloud seem to have some pages on the MoinMoin wiki but there
> aren't a obvious set of project, not incubator admin, pages in the
> recent changes.
>
> Andy
>