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Posted to dev@turbine.apache.org by Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> on 2003/06/23 18:06:32 UTC
TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
throwing up documentation?
I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
help automate the process for newbies.
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
> that he has created.
>
> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
>
> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
> about.
>
> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
> the error messages.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >
> >
> > Quinton
> > Given all that, we would need:
> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
> > start working with them.
> > 3) People willing to test all this.
> > Am I right?
> >
> > Rodrigo
> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> >
> >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quinton
> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
> > you had a
> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
> > you wanted
> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
> > instead of
> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
> > JPublish
> > > > was Turbine based).
> > >
> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
> > if there is
> > > a database involved.
> > >
> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
> > advance on how
> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
> > Turbine,
> > > > all I wanted was
> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
> > to be used
> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
> > interested in
> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
> > the whole
> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
> > ready-to-be-used wars
> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
> > >
> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
> > application
> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
> > the sources
> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
> > directory. Maven
> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
> > >
> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
> > framework for
> > > > beginners...
> > >
> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
> > >
> > > > Rodrigo
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
> > > > > the configuration files.
> > > > >
> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
> > easy to get
> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
> > > > application
> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
> > > > > understanding how it worked.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
> > > > distribution
> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
> > > > then tried
> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
> > continued
> > > > > using Turbine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
> > > > commercial
> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
> > > > the TDK any
> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
> > > > found that
> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
> > > > understand what was
> > > > > required and what was not.
> > > > >
> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
> > > > drop the TDK
> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
> > have working
> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
> > generate a
> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
> > > > things should
> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
> > > > the TDK is a
> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
> > > > address this by
> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
> > Tomcat. You
> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
> > > > container.
> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
> > > > > deploy.
> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > Quinton McCombs
> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
> > > > using the TDK
> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
> > > > if Turbine
> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
> > distributing its
> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
> > > > you was a
> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
> > process a lot
> > > > > > more trasparent.
> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rodrigo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
> > > > > > hopefully everyone
> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
> > > > > > be to work
> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
> > > > need to know
> > > > > > > a couple of things:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
> > already? 3. And
> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
> > > > that havent
> > > > > > > already been put forth?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
> > > > however I have
> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
> > > > stuff? The
> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
> > > > > > points to
> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -b
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by Rodrigo Reyes <ro...@instaservi.com>.
Bill
I think we are talking about having a couple of examples that could be
used right out the box for truly beginners, but having a more advanced
version where you could use Maven to build your skeleton and even your
Torque specific classes would be a very nice thing to have for Torque
specific and more advanced users. There's no reason why we should have one
instead of the other. I think we could and should have both.
Rodrigo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
To: "Turbine Developers List" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
> I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>
> Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
> throwing up documentation?
>
> I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
> build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
> help automate the process for newbies.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
> > Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample
apps
> > that he has created.
> >
> > If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of
Henning's
> > sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into
it.
> >
> > Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting
exploded
> > directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to
talk
> > about.
> >
> > As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send
me
> > the error messages.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
> > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > >
> > >
> > > Quinton
> > > Given all that, we would need:
> > > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
> > > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
> > > start working with them.
> > > 3) People willing to test all this.
> > > Am I right?
> > >
> > > Rodrigo
> > > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
> > > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
> > > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
> > > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
> > > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> > >
> > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
> > > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Quinton
> > > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
> > > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
> > > you had a
> > > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
> > > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
> > > you wanted
> > > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
> > > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
> > > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
> > > instead of
> > > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
> > > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
> > > JPublish
> > > > > was Turbine based).
> > > >
> > > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
> > > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
> > > if there is
> > > > a database involved.
> > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
> > > advance on how
> > > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
> > > Turbine,
> > > > > all I wanted was
> > > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
> > > to be used
> > > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
> > > interested in
> > > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
> > > the whole
> > > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
> > > ready-to-be-used wars
> > > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
> > > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
> > > application
> > > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
> > > the sources
> > > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
> > > directory. Maven
> > > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
> > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
> > > framework for
> > > > > beginners...
> > > >
> > > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
> > > >
> > > > > Rodrigo
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> > > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
> > > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
> > > > > > the configuration files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
> > > easy to get
> > > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
> > > > > application
> > > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
> > > > > > understanding how it worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
> > > > > distribution
> > > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
> > > > > then tried
> > > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
> > > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
> > > continued
> > > > > > using Turbine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
> > > > > commercial
> > > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
> > > > > the TDK any
> > > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
> > > > > found that
> > > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
> > > > > understand what was
> > > > > > required and what was not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
> > > > > drop the TDK
> > > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
> > > have working
> > > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
> > > generate a
> > > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
> > > > > things should
> > > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
> > > > > the TDK is a
> > > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
> > > > > address this by
> > > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
> > > Tomcat. You
> > > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
> > > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
> > > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
> > > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
> > > > > container.
> > > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
> > > > > > deploy.
> > > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
> > > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Quinton McCombs
> > > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
> > > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
> > > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
> > > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
> > > > > using the TDK
> > > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
> > > > > if Turbine
> > > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
> > > distributing its
> > > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
> > > > > you was a
> > > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
> > > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
> > > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
> > > process a lot
> > > > > > > more trasparent.
> > > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rodrigo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> > > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
> > > > > > > hopefully everyone
> > > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
> > > > > > > be to work
> > > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
> > > > > need to know
> > > > > > > > a couple of things:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
> > > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
> > > already? 3. And
> > > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
> > > > > that havent
> > > > > > > > already been put forth?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
> > > > > however I have
> > > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
> > > > > stuff? The
> > > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
> > > > > > > points to
> > > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
> > > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -b
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
Hi,
no, surely not! :-) Just a little "toolbox" to get stuff running. I
still know how I fighted, cursed and hated the 2.1 TDK. I don't want
new users of the current code base to do the same thing.
Regards
Henning
>Henning
>I don't disagree with that. However, I wasn't entirely sure that was
>your point from the previous message. I wanted to make sure you weren't
>proposing that the replacement be suitable for a production environment
>out of the box.
>On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 04:48, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
>> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> >And I'm not sure what is gained by bundling pre-configured servers with
>> >everything else? Can you maybe elaborate on this? I was thinking
>> >minimalist on this. If we provide good docs on how to go from the build
>> >environment to a deployable app, doesn't this give the community more
>> >flexibility?
>>
>> The TDK is for beginners. To me this is the equivalent of bundling the
>> first set of batteries with a new toy. It reduces the amount of
>> trouble getting _anything_ to work. Once you're seasoned, you won't
>> use the TDK most of the time.
>>
>> I'd say that it is frustrating to tell people: "Welcome to the Turbine
>> Development Kit. If you want to try it out, you must now go and get a
>> servlet container. After you did this (and made it run), you must now
>> go and fetch some sort of maven release, which is bugfree enough to
>> actually compile our source code examples. BTW, you can't download it,
>> but you must fetch it from CVS and compile it yourself. Have fun and
>> come back when you're ready."
>>
>> IMHO it's better to bundle versions known to work.
>>
>> Regards
>> Henning
>>
>>
>> >I haven't done a clean, full install of turbine in a long while, so
>> >tonite I'm gonna get new copies of everything, and start building on a
>> >clean box, documenting the process I take all the while. I think this
>> >will help clean up the picture in my mind's eye.
>>
>>
>> >On Mon, 2003-06-23 at 12:26, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
>> >> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >> I don't know whether we really need a fully fleshed out maven plugin,
>> >> mainly because most of the things that the (old) TDK needed are already
>> >> in maven. What we would need is
>> >>
>> >> - A set of configuration files to get a new Turbine app running in short
>> >> time (this is acually quite easy and more a question of documenting
>> >> the TurbineResources.properties in the conf subdirectory)
>> >>
>> >> Things I can think of from the top of my head:
>> >>
>> >> - project.xml
>> >> - project.properties --+-- with comments why we have two files
>> >> - build.properties --+ and where the differences are
>> >>
>> >> - conf/TurbineResource.properties
>> >> - conf/Torque.properties (if Torque is used)
>> >> - conf/<avalon files>, which is simply copying the files in turbine
>> >> - conf/Log4j.properties
>> >> - conf/<yourapplication>-web.xml
>> >>
>> >> - Some basic Torque schema files for creating the security and scheduler
>> >> tables and put them into a databases. And a -data.xml to fill it with
>> >> some basic data for logging in.
>> >>
>> >> - Some glue so that you can say e.g.
>> >> "maven -Dnewapp.name=fooapp turbine:create" to set up a new skeleton
>> >> application in your workspace.
>> >>
>> >> And (what is my personal pet peeve, so you don't have to read any
>> >> further) just as the TDK provided a preconfigured "running out of the
>> >> box" Tomcat , I'd like to have this new development kit a "out of the
>> >> box running" Webserver and a precompiled maven which is able to
>> >> _support_ people trying to work on Turbine. And not a build system
>> >> (just like in the old TDK) which is a continous struggle to get
>> >> anything done.
>> >>
>> >> I'm pretty sure that getting all this together isn't so much a job of
>> >> writing scripts and stuff but to collect what is there, comment it and
>> >> put out a tutorial of "how I wrote my first Turbine app".
>> >>
>> >> After this, adding an "examples" folder, where we have lots of demo
>> >> applications is simple.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Henning
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>> >>
>> >> >Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
>> >> >throwing up documentation?
>> >>
>> >> >I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
>> >> >build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
>> >> >help automate the process for newbies.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
>> >> >> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
>> >> >> that he has created.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
>> >> >> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
>> >> >> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
>> >> >> about.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
>> >> >> the error messages.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
>> >> >> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Quinton
>> >> >> > Given all that, we would need:
>> >> >> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
>> >> >> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
>> >> >> > start working with them.
>> >> >> > 3) People willing to test all this.
>> >> >> > Am I right?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Rodrigo
>> >> >> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
>> >> >> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
>> >> >> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
>> >> >> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
>> >> >> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> >> >> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
>> >> >> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> >> >> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > Quinton
>> >> >> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
>> >> >> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
>> >> >> > you had a
>> >> >> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
>> >> >> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
>> >> >> > you wanted
>> >> >> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
>> >> >> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
>> >> >> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
>> >> >> > instead of
>> >> >> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
>> >> >> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
>> >> >> > JPublish
>> >> >> > > > was Turbine based).
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
>> >> >> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
>> >> >> > if there is
>> >> >> > > a database involved.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
>> >> >> > advance on how
>> >> >> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
>> >> >> > Turbine,
>> >> >> > > > all I wanted was
>> >> >> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
>> >> >> > to be used
>> >> >> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
>> >> >> > interested in
>> >> >> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
>> >> >> > the whole
>> >> >> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
>> >> >> > ready-to-be-used wars
>> >> >> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
>> >> >> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
>> >> >> > application
>> >> >> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
>> >> >> > the sources
>> >> >> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
>> >> >> > directory. Maven
>> >> >> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
>> >> >> > framework for
>> >> >> > > > beginners...
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > Rodrigo
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> >> >> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
>> >> >> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
>> >> >> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
>> >> >> > > > > the configuration files.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
>> >> >> > easy to get
>> >> >> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
>> >> >> > > > application
>> >> >> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
>> >> >> > > > > understanding how it worked.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
>> >> >> > > > distribution
>> >> >> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
>> >> >> > > > then tried
>> >> >> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
>> >> >> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
>> >> >> > continued
>> >> >> > > > > using Turbine.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
>> >> >> > > > commercial
>> >> >> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
>> >> >> > > > the TDK any
>> >> >> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
>> >> >> > > > found that
>> >> >> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
>> >> >> > > > understand what was
>> >> >> > > > > required and what was not.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
>> >> >> > > > drop the TDK
>> >> >> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
>> >> >> > have working
>> >> >> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
>> >> >> > generate a
>> >> >> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
>> >> >> > > > things should
>> >> >> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
>> >> >> > > > the TDK is a
>> >> >> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
>> >> >> > > > address this by
>> >> >> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
>> >> >> > Tomcat. You
>> >> >> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
>> >> >> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
>> >> >> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
>> >> >> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
>> >> >> > > > container.
>> >> >> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
>> >> >> > > > > deploy.
>> >> >> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
>> >> >> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > > > > Quinton McCombs
>> >> >> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
>> >> >> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
>> >> >> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
>> >> >> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
>> >> >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > Bill
>> >> >> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
>> >> >> > > > using the TDK
>> >> >> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
>> >> >> > > > if Turbine
>> >> >> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
>> >> >> > distributing its
>> >> >> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
>> >> >> > > > you was a
>> >> >> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
>> >> >> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
>> >> >> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
>> >> >> > process a lot
>> >> >> > > > > > more trasparent.
>> >> >> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > Rodrigo
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> >> >> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
>> >> >> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
>> >> >> > > > > > hopefully everyone
>> >> >> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
>> >> >> > > > > > be to work
>> >> >> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
>> >> >> > > > need to know
>> >> >> > > > > > > a couple of things:
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
>> >> >> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
>> >> >> > already? 3. And
>> >> >> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
>> >> >> > > > that havent
>> >> >> > > > > > > already been put forth?
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
>> >> >> > > > however I have
>> >> >> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
>> >> >> > > > stuff? The
>> >> >> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
>> >> >> > > > > > points to
>> >> >> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
>> >> >> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > -b
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > > --
>> >> >> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > > > > > -
>> >> >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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>> >> >> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >> >> > > > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
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>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
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>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
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>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
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>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> >--
>> >> >Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> >For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >--
>> >Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>>
>>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>--
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--
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services
freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
--- Quote of the week: "It is pointless to tell people anything when
you know that they won't process the message." --- Jonathan Revusky
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>.
Henning
I don't disagree with that. However, I wasn't entirely sure that was
your point from the previous message. I wanted to make sure you weren't
proposing that the replacement be suitable for a production environment
out of the box.
On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 04:48, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> >And I'm not sure what is gained by bundling pre-configured servers with
> >everything else? Can you maybe elaborate on this? I was thinking
> >minimalist on this. If we provide good docs on how to go from the build
> >environment to a deployable app, doesn't this give the community more
> >flexibility?
>
> The TDK is for beginners. To me this is the equivalent of bundling the
> first set of batteries with a new toy. It reduces the amount of
> trouble getting _anything_ to work. Once you're seasoned, you won't
> use the TDK most of the time.
>
> I'd say that it is frustrating to tell people: "Welcome to the Turbine
> Development Kit. If you want to try it out, you must now go and get a
> servlet container. After you did this (and made it run), you must now
> go and fetch some sort of maven release, which is bugfree enough to
> actually compile our source code examples. BTW, you can't download it,
> but you must fetch it from CVS and compile it yourself. Have fun and
> come back when you're ready."
>
> IMHO it's better to bundle versions known to work.
>
> Regards
> Henning
>
>
> >I haven't done a clean, full install of turbine in a long while, so
> >tonite I'm gonna get new copies of everything, and start building on a
> >clean box, documenting the process I take all the while. I think this
> >will help clean up the picture in my mind's eye.
>
>
> >On Mon, 2003-06-23 at 12:26, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> >> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
> >>
> >> I don't know whether we really need a fully fleshed out maven plugin,
> >> mainly because most of the things that the (old) TDK needed are already
> >> in maven. What we would need is
> >>
> >> - A set of configuration files to get a new Turbine app running in short
> >> time (this is acually quite easy and more a question of documenting
> >> the TurbineResources.properties in the conf subdirectory)
> >>
> >> Things I can think of from the top of my head:
> >>
> >> - project.xml
> >> - project.properties --+-- with comments why we have two files
> >> - build.properties --+ and where the differences are
> >>
> >> - conf/TurbineResource.properties
> >> - conf/Torque.properties (if Torque is used)
> >> - conf/<avalon files>, which is simply copying the files in turbine
> >> - conf/Log4j.properties
> >> - conf/<yourapplication>-web.xml
> >>
> >> - Some basic Torque schema files for creating the security and scheduler
> >> tables and put them into a databases. And a -data.xml to fill it with
> >> some basic data for logging in.
> >>
> >> - Some glue so that you can say e.g.
> >> "maven -Dnewapp.name=fooapp turbine:create" to set up a new skeleton
> >> application in your workspace.
> >>
> >> And (what is my personal pet peeve, so you don't have to read any
> >> further) just as the TDK provided a preconfigured "running out of the
> >> box" Tomcat , I'd like to have this new development kit a "out of the
> >> box running" Webserver and a precompiled maven which is able to
> >> _support_ people trying to work on Turbine. And not a build system
> >> (just like in the old TDK) which is a continous struggle to get
> >> anything done.
> >>
> >> I'm pretty sure that getting all this together isn't so much a job of
> >> writing scripts and stuff but to collect what is there, comment it and
> >> put out a tutorial of "how I wrote my first Turbine app".
> >>
> >> After this, adding an "examples" folder, where we have lots of demo
> >> applications is simple.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Henning
> >>
> >>
> >> >I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
> >>
> >> >Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
> >> >throwing up documentation?
> >>
> >> >I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
> >> >build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
> >> >help automate the process for newbies.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
> >> >> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
> >> >> that he has created.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
> >> >> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
> >> >> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
> >> >> about.
> >> >>
> >> >> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
> >> >> the error messages.
> >> >>
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
> >> >> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Quinton
> >> >> > Given all that, we would need:
> >> >> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
> >> >> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
> >> >> > start working with them.
> >> >> > 3) People willing to test all this.
> >> >> > Am I right?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rodrigo
> >> >> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
> >> >> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
> >> >> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
> >> >> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
> >> >> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> >> >> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> >> >> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
> >> >> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> >> >> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Quinton
> >> >> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
> >> >> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
> >> >> > you had a
> >> >> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
> >> >> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
> >> >> > you wanted
> >> >> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
> >> >> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
> >> >> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
> >> >> > instead of
> >> >> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
> >> >> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
> >> >> > JPublish
> >> >> > > > was Turbine based).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
> >> >> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
> >> >> > if there is
> >> >> > > a database involved.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
> >> >> > advance on how
> >> >> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
> >> >> > Turbine,
> >> >> > > > all I wanted was
> >> >> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
> >> >> > to be used
> >> >> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
> >> >> > interested in
> >> >> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
> >> >> > the whole
> >> >> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
> >> >> > ready-to-be-used wars
> >> >> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
> >> >> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
> >> >> > application
> >> >> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
> >> >> > the sources
> >> >> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
> >> >> > directory. Maven
> >> >> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
> >> >> > framework for
> >> >> > > > beginners...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Rodrigo
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> >> >> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
> >> >> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
> >> >> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
> >> >> > > > > the configuration files.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
> >> >> > easy to get
> >> >> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
> >> >> > > > application
> >> >> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
> >> >> > > > > understanding how it worked.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
> >> >> > > > distribution
> >> >> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
> >> >> > > > then tried
> >> >> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
> >> >> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
> >> >> > continued
> >> >> > > > > using Turbine.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
> >> >> > > > commercial
> >> >> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
> >> >> > > > the TDK any
> >> >> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
> >> >> > > > found that
> >> >> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
> >> >> > > > understand what was
> >> >> > > > > required and what was not.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
> >> >> > > > drop the TDK
> >> >> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
> >> >> > have working
> >> >> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
> >> >> > generate a
> >> >> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
> >> >> > > > things should
> >> >> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
> >> >> > > > the TDK is a
> >> >> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
> >> >> > > > address this by
> >> >> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
> >> >> > Tomcat. You
> >> >> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
> >> >> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
> >> >> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
> >> >> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
> >> >> > > > container.
> >> >> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
> >> >> > > > > deploy.
> >> >> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
> >> >> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > > Quinton McCombs
> >> >> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
> >> >> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
> >> >> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
> >> >> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
> >> >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Bill
> >> >> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
> >> >> > > > using the TDK
> >> >> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
> >> >> > > > if Turbine
> >> >> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
> >> >> > distributing its
> >> >> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
> >> >> > > > you was a
> >> >> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
> >> >> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
> >> >> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
> >> >> > process a lot
> >> >> > > > > > more trasparent.
> >> >> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Rodrigo
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> >> >> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
> >> >> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
> >> >> > > > > > hopefully everyone
> >> >> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
> >> >> > > > > > be to work
> >> >> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
> >> >> > > > need to know
> >> >> > > > > > > a couple of things:
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
> >> >> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
> >> >> > already? 3. And
> >> >> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
> >> >> > > > that havent
> >> >> > > > > > > already been put forth?
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
> >> >> > > > however I have
> >> >> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
> >> >> > > > stuff? The
> >> >> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
> >> >> > > > > > points to
> >> >> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
> >> >> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > -b
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > > --
> >> >> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > > > -
> >> >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> >> > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> >> > > > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > > > -
> >> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> >> > > > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> >> > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > -
> >> >> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> >> > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> >> > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > -
> >> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> >> > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >--
> >> >Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> >For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >--
> >Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>
>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
Hi,
>And I'm not sure what is gained by bundling pre-configured servers with
>everything else? Can you maybe elaborate on this? I was thinking
>minimalist on this. If we provide good docs on how to go from the build
>environment to a deployable app, doesn't this give the community more
>flexibility?
The TDK is for beginners. To me this is the equivalent of bundling the
first set of batteries with a new toy. It reduces the amount of
trouble getting _anything_ to work. Once you're seasoned, you won't
use the TDK most of the time.
I'd say that it is frustrating to tell people: "Welcome to the Turbine
Development Kit. If you want to try it out, you must now go and get a
servlet container. After you did this (and made it run), you must now
go and fetch some sort of maven release, which is bugfree enough to
actually compile our source code examples. BTW, you can't download it,
but you must fetch it from CVS and compile it yourself. Have fun and
come back when you're ready."
IMHO it's better to bundle versions known to work.
Regards
Henning
>I haven't done a clean, full install of turbine in a long while, so
>tonite I'm gonna get new copies of everything, and start building on a
>clean box, documenting the process I take all the while. I think this
>will help clean up the picture in my mind's eye.
>On Mon, 2003-06-23 at 12:26, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
>> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
>>
>> I don't know whether we really need a fully fleshed out maven plugin,
>> mainly because most of the things that the (old) TDK needed are already
>> in maven. What we would need is
>>
>> - A set of configuration files to get a new Turbine app running in short
>> time (this is acually quite easy and more a question of documenting
>> the TurbineResources.properties in the conf subdirectory)
>>
>> Things I can think of from the top of my head:
>>
>> - project.xml
>> - project.properties --+-- with comments why we have two files
>> - build.properties --+ and where the differences are
>>
>> - conf/TurbineResource.properties
>> - conf/Torque.properties (if Torque is used)
>> - conf/<avalon files>, which is simply copying the files in turbine
>> - conf/Log4j.properties
>> - conf/<yourapplication>-web.xml
>>
>> - Some basic Torque schema files for creating the security and scheduler
>> tables and put them into a databases. And a -data.xml to fill it with
>> some basic data for logging in.
>>
>> - Some glue so that you can say e.g.
>> "maven -Dnewapp.name=fooapp turbine:create" to set up a new skeleton
>> application in your workspace.
>>
>> And (what is my personal pet peeve, so you don't have to read any
>> further) just as the TDK provided a preconfigured "running out of the
>> box" Tomcat , I'd like to have this new development kit a "out of the
>> box running" Webserver and a precompiled maven which is able to
>> _support_ people trying to work on Turbine. And not a build system
>> (just like in the old TDK) which is a continous struggle to get
>> anything done.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that getting all this together isn't so much a job of
>> writing scripts and stuff but to collect what is there, comment it and
>> put out a tutorial of "how I wrote my first Turbine app".
>>
>> After this, adding an "examples" folder, where we have lots of demo
>> applications is simple.
>>
>> Regards
>> Henning
>>
>>
>> >I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>>
>> >Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
>> >throwing up documentation?
>>
>> >I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
>> >build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
>> >help automate the process for newbies.
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
>> >> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
>> >> that he has created.
>> >>
>> >> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
>> >> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
>> >>
>> >> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
>> >> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
>> >> about.
>> >>
>> >> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
>> >> the error messages.
>> >>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
>> >> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Quinton
>> >> > Given all that, we would need:
>> >> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
>> >> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
>> >> > start working with them.
>> >> > 3) People willing to test all this.
>> >> > Am I right?
>> >> >
>> >> > Rodrigo
>> >> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
>> >> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
>> >> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
>> >> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
>> >> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> >> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
>> >> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
>> >> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> >> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Quinton
>> >> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
>> >> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
>> >> > you had a
>> >> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
>> >> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
>> >> > you wanted
>> >> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
>> >> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
>> >> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
>> >> > instead of
>> >> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
>> >> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
>> >> > JPublish
>> >> > > > was Turbine based).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
>> >> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
>> >> > if there is
>> >> > > a database involved.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
>> >> > advance on how
>> >> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
>> >> > Turbine,
>> >> > > > all I wanted was
>> >> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
>> >> > to be used
>> >> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
>> >> > interested in
>> >> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
>> >> > the whole
>> >> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
>> >> > ready-to-be-used wars
>> >> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
>> >> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
>> >> > application
>> >> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
>> >> > the sources
>> >> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
>> >> > directory. Maven
>> >> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
>> >> > framework for
>> >> > > > beginners...
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Rodrigo
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> >> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
>> >> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
>> >> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
>> >> > > > > the configuration files.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
>> >> > easy to get
>> >> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
>> >> > > > application
>> >> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
>> >> > > > > understanding how it worked.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
>> >> > > > distribution
>> >> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
>> >> > > > then tried
>> >> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
>> >> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
>> >> > continued
>> >> > > > > using Turbine.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
>> >> > > > commercial
>> >> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
>> >> > > > the TDK any
>> >> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
>> >> > > > found that
>> >> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
>> >> > > > understand what was
>> >> > > > > required and what was not.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
>> >> > > > drop the TDK
>> >> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
>> >> > have working
>> >> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
>> >> > generate a
>> >> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
>> >> > > > things should
>> >> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
>> >> > > > the TDK is a
>> >> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
>> >> > > > address this by
>> >> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
>> >> > Tomcat. You
>> >> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
>> >> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
>> >> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
>> >> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
>> >> > > > container.
>> >> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
>> >> > > > > deploy.
>> >> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
>> >> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > > Quinton McCombs
>> >> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
>> >> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
>> >> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
>> >> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
>> >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Bill
>> >> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
>> >> > > > using the TDK
>> >> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
>> >> > > > if Turbine
>> >> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
>> >> > distributing its
>> >> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
>> >> > > > you was a
>> >> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
>> >> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
>> >> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
>> >> > process a lot
>> >> > > > > > more trasparent.
>> >> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Rodrigo
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> >> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
>> >> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
>> >> > > > > > hopefully everyone
>> >> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
>> >> > > > > > be to work
>> >> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
>> >> > > > need to know
>> >> > > > > > > a couple of things:
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
>> >> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
>> >> > already? 3. And
>> >> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
>> >> > > > that havent
>> >> > > > > > > already been put forth?
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
>> >> > > > however I have
>> >> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
>> >> > > > stuff? The
>> >> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
>> >> > > > > > points to
>> >> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
>> >> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > -b
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > --
>> >> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > > > -
>> >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >> > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >> > > > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > > > -
>> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >> > > > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >> > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > -
>> >> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >> > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >> > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > > -
>> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> >> > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>> >--
>> >Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>>
>>
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> >For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>--
>Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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--
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services
freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
--- Quote of the week: "It is pointless to tell people anything when
you know that they won't process the message." --- Jonathan Revusky
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>.
Rodrigo: Sorry, I didnt mean to make it sound mutually exclusive, I'm
totally on the same page as far as the final solution being a
combination of both.
Henning: Ok, I think we are on the same page. I didnt mean to make it
sound like the plugin would be too feature-rich, I was looking at the
plugin being the 'glue' as you referred to it.
As far as your pet peeve, doesn't maven already have a 'deploy' goal? (
I haven't used it yet, I basically spent my free time this weekend
reading through the Maven docs and tutorials and haven't gone hands-on
yet ) Would it make more sense to explain how to use this goal to
deploy the apps in the tutorial?
And I'm not sure what is gained by bundling pre-configured servers with
everything else? Can you maybe elaborate on this? I was thinking
minimalist on this. If we provide good docs on how to go from the build
environment to a deployable app, doesn't this give the community more
flexibility?
I haven't done a clean, full install of turbine in a long while, so
tonite I'm gonna get new copies of everything, and start building on a
clean box, documenting the process I take all the while. I think this
will help clean up the picture in my mind's eye.
On Mon, 2003-06-23 at 12:26, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
>
> I don't know whether we really need a fully fleshed out maven plugin,
> mainly because most of the things that the (old) TDK needed are already
> in maven. What we would need is
>
> - A set of configuration files to get a new Turbine app running in short
> time (this is acually quite easy and more a question of documenting
> the TurbineResources.properties in the conf subdirectory)
>
> Things I can think of from the top of my head:
>
> - project.xml
> - project.properties --+-- with comments why we have two files
> - build.properties --+ and where the differences are
>
> - conf/TurbineResource.properties
> - conf/Torque.properties (if Torque is used)
> - conf/<avalon files>, which is simply copying the files in turbine
> - conf/Log4j.properties
> - conf/<yourapplication>-web.xml
>
> - Some basic Torque schema files for creating the security and scheduler
> tables and put them into a databases. And a -data.xml to fill it with
> some basic data for logging in.
>
> - Some glue so that you can say e.g.
> "maven -Dnewapp.name=fooapp turbine:create" to set up a new skeleton
> application in your workspace.
>
> And (what is my personal pet peeve, so you don't have to read any
> further) just as the TDK provided a preconfigured "running out of the
> box" Tomcat , I'd like to have this new development kit a "out of the
> box running" Webserver and a precompiled maven which is able to
> _support_ people trying to work on Turbine. And not a build system
> (just like in the old TDK) which is a continous struggle to get
> anything done.
>
> I'm pretty sure that getting all this together isn't so much a job of
> writing scripts and stuff but to collect what is there, comment it and
> put out a tutorial of "how I wrote my first Turbine app".
>
> After this, adding an "examples" folder, where we have lots of demo
> applications is simple.
>
> Regards
> Henning
>
>
> >I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>
> >Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
> >throwing up documentation?
>
> >I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
> >build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
> >help automate the process for newbies.
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
> >> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
> >> that he has created.
> >>
> >> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
> >> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
> >>
> >> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
> >> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
> >> about.
> >>
> >> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
> >> the error messages.
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
> >> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> >> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Quinton
> >> > Given all that, we would need:
> >> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
> >> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
> >> > start working with them.
> >> > 3) People willing to test all this.
> >> > Am I right?
> >> >
> >> > Rodrigo
> >> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
> >> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
> >> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
> >> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
> >> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> >> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> >> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
> >> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
> >> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Quinton
> >> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
> >> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
> >> > you had a
> >> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
> >> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
> >> > you wanted
> >> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
> >> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
> >> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
> >> > instead of
> >> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
> >> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
> >> > JPublish
> >> > > > was Turbine based).
> >> > >
> >> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
> >> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
> >> > if there is
> >> > > a database involved.
> >> > >
> >> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
> >> > advance on how
> >> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
> >> > Turbine,
> >> > > > all I wanted was
> >> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
> >> > to be used
> >> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
> >> > interested in
> >> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
> >> > the whole
> >> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
> >> > ready-to-be-used wars
> >> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
> >> > >
> >> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
> >> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
> >> > application
> >> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
> >> > the sources
> >> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
> >> > directory. Maven
> >> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
> >> > framework for
> >> > > > beginners...
> >> > >
> >> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
> >> > >
> >> > > > Rodrigo
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
> >> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
> >> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
> >> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
> >> > > > > the configuration files.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
> >> > easy to get
> >> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
> >> > > > application
> >> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
> >> > > > > understanding how it worked.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
> >> > > > distribution
> >> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
> >> > > > then tried
> >> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
> >> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
> >> > continued
> >> > > > > using Turbine.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
> >> > > > commercial
> >> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
> >> > > > the TDK any
> >> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
> >> > > > found that
> >> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
> >> > > > understand what was
> >> > > > > required and what was not.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
> >> > > > drop the TDK
> >> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
> >> > have working
> >> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
> >> > generate a
> >> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
> >> > > > things should
> >> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
> >> > > > the TDK is a
> >> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
> >> > > > address this by
> >> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
> >> > Tomcat. You
> >> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
> >> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
> >> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
> >> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
> >> > > > container.
> >> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
> >> > > > > deploy.
> >> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
> >> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > Quinton McCombs
> >> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
> >> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
> >> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
> >> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
> >> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Bill
> >> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
> >> > > > using the TDK
> >> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
> >> > > > if Turbine
> >> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
> >> > distributing its
> >> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
> >> > > > you was a
> >> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
> >> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
> >> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
> >> > process a lot
> >> > > > > > more trasparent.
> >> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Rodrigo
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> >> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
> >> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
> >> > > > > > hopefully everyone
> >> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
> >> > > > > > be to work
> >> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
> >> > > > need to know
> >> > > > > > > a couple of things:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
> >> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
> >> > already? 3. And
> >> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
> >> > > > that havent
> >> > > > > > > already been put forth?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
> >> > > > however I have
> >> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
> >> > > > stuff? The
> >> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
> >> > > > > > points to
> >> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
> >> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > -b
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > > > > > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > -
> >> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > turbine-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > > turbine-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
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Re: TDK Replacement (was RE: Wanna help)
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com> writes:
I don't know whether we really need a fully fleshed out maven plugin,
mainly because most of the things that the (old) TDK needed are already
in maven. What we would need is
- A set of configuration files to get a new Turbine app running in short
time (this is acually quite easy and more a question of documenting
the TurbineResources.properties in the conf subdirectory)
Things I can think of from the top of my head:
- project.xml
- project.properties --+-- with comments why we have two files
- build.properties --+ and where the differences are
- conf/TurbineResource.properties
- conf/Torque.properties (if Torque is used)
- conf/<avalon files>, which is simply copying the files in turbine
- conf/Log4j.properties
- conf/<yourapplication>-web.xml
- Some basic Torque schema files for creating the security and scheduler
tables and put them into a databases. And a -data.xml to fill it with
some basic data for logging in.
- Some glue so that you can say e.g.
"maven -Dnewapp.name=fooapp turbine:create" to set up a new skeleton
application in your workspace.
And (what is my personal pet peeve, so you don't have to read any
further) just as the TDK provided a preconfigured "running out of the
box" Tomcat , I'd like to have this new development kit a "out of the
box running" Webserver and a precompiled maven which is able to
_support_ people trying to work on Turbine. And not a build system
(just like in the old TDK) which is a continous struggle to get
anything done.
I'm pretty sure that getting all this together isn't so much a job of
writing scripts and stuff but to collect what is there, comment it and
put out a tutorial of "how I wrote my first Turbine app".
After this, adding an "examples" folder, where we have lots of demo
applications is simple.
Regards
Henning
>I just want to make sure I am on the same page...
>Are we simply proposing to bundle a couple of samples with Tomcat, and
>throwing up documentation?
>I thought the initial discussion was leaning toward a plugin to Maven to
>build the skeletal environment, and maybe a couple of extra goals to
>help automate the process for newbies.
>On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 16:34, Quinton McCombs wrote:
>> Pretty much. Henning can supply you with links to download the sample apps
>> that he has created.
>>
>> If you want, try to come up with a sample WAR for one or more of Henning's
>> sample apps. Also create a minimal WAR with whatever you see going into it.
>>
>> Once you start making progress on the WAR files and the resulting exploded
>> directory structure, we will be able to have something more concrete to talk
>> about.
>>
>> As far as you build problem, yes. Try to run your build again and send me
>> the error messages.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:06 PM
>> > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> >
>> >
>> > Quinton
>> > Given all that, we would need:
>> > 1) A sample war and a minimal war
>> > 2) Documentation/Tutorials for both wars and how to
>> > start working with them.
>> > 3) People willing to test all this.
>> > Am I right?
>> >
>> > Rodrigo
>> > PS. BTW, I already said this but I will say it again: I would
>> > like to help. I already have Maven and the latest source
>> > downloaded. Still, I haven't been able to build since I get
>> > errors. I sent them to the list, but no one answered me.
>> > Could you give me a hand? Thanx...
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:52 PM
>> > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> >
>> >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:14 PM
>> > > > To: Turbine Developers List; qmccombs@nequalsone.com
>> > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Quinton
>> > > > Sorry. What I meant was to have a couple of wars ready to be
>> > > > downloaded, deployed and used. For example, on JPublish,
>> > you had a
>> > > > minimal war and a sample war. The only thing you needed was to
>> > > > deploy one of them, and everything was up and running. If
>> > you wanted
>> > > > to learn how to start, you give a look into the sample war (which
>> > > > didn't need a Database). If you wanted to start from scratch, you
>> > > > used the minimal war. Could we have something like that
>> > instead of
>> > > > the TDK we used to have? It was a lot easier for me to start with
>> > > > JPublish than what it was to start with Turbine (although
>> > JPublish
>> > > > was Turbine based).
>> > >
>> > > Ah, I understand now. Yes, that would be a good idea. The only
>> > > reason that we would need to perforn any sort of build is
>> > if there is
>> > > a database involved.
>> > >
>> > > > On the other hand, I know Maven has been a huge
>> > advance on how
>> > > > you guys manage projects. Still, when I was starting with
>> > Turbine,
>> > > > all I wanted was
>> > > > that: to start with Turbine. I think a distribution ready
>> > to be used
>> > > > with Maven would be a great thing for people who are
>> > interested in
>> > > > using Torque or joining the dev group. Still, that's not
>> > the whole
>> > > > community. And for true beginners, a couple of
>> > ready-to-be-used wars
>> > > > are a lot easier to begin with.
>> > >
>> > > You make a very good point here. However, if you are going to use
>> > > Turbine, you will be writing java code to implement your
>> > application
>> > > logic. Granted, you could simply use your IDE to compile
>> > the sources
>> > > whereever they may reside into your WEB-INF/classes
>> > directory. Maven
>> > > will be of more benefit to the people who do not use IDEs.
>> > >
>> > > > Hope this helps Turbine into becoming a friendlier
>> > framework for
>> > > > beginners...
>> > >
>> > > I do too. There is quite a learning curve to start using Turbine.
>> > >
>> > > > Rodrigo
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Quinton McCombs" <qm...@nequalsone.com>
>> > > > To: "'Turbine Developers List'" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:14 AM
>> > > > Subject: RE: Wanna help
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Unforturnately, we can not distribute Turbine as one jar file.
>> > > > > You have all of the jars that Turbine depends on in addition to
>> > > > > the configuration files.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The TDK served a very important purpose. It made it
>> > easy to get
>> > > > > started with turbine by allowing it to generate a sample
>> > > > application
>> > > > > for you. By having a workign example, you could start
>> > > > > understanding how it worked.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When I started with T2.1, I used tried to use the source
>> > > > distribution
>> > > > > but always became frustrated simply trying to build it. I
>> > > > then tried
>> > > > > the binary distribution but then did not understand how to get
>> > > > > everything working. The TDK was the only reason that I
>> > continued
>> > > > > using Turbine.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I took started modifing the same application to build the
>> > > > commercial
>> > > > > applications that I now continue to develop. I don't use
>> > > > the TDK any
>> > > > > longer since I now understand how it all works. I actually
>> > > > found that
>> > > > > the TDK actually made it more difficult for me to
>> > > > understand what was
>> > > > > required and what was not.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What Henning is proposing (and I agree with) is that we
>> > > > drop the TDK
>> > > > > but provide two things in its place. First, we will
>> > have working
>> > > > > sample applications. Second, we will provide a way to
>> > generate a
>> > > > > skeleton application that you can build upon. These two
>> > > > things should
>> > > > > effectively replace everything that the TDK once provided.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The only thing that we would be missing that was once in
>> > > > the TDK is a
>> > > > > container in which to run the applciations. We could
>> > > > address this by
>> > > > > packaging all of the sample apps along with a copy of
>> > Tomcat. You
>> > > > > could then have one or more compressed files to download and
>> > > > > decompress. Following a set of fairly simple instructions, you
>> > > > > will have multiple working example applications.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So, with that in mind, we need the following things:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 1) Sample applications ready to be built with Maven.
>> > > > > 2) A deployment method to deploy the sample apps into the
>> > > > container.
>> > > > > Perhaps Maven's reactor can be used to build everything and
>> > > > > deploy.
>> > > > > 3) Documentation for the entire process.
>> > > > > 4) People willing to test all of this.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --------------------------------------------
>> > > > > Quinton McCombs
>> > > > > NequalsOne - HealthCare marketing tools
>> > > > mailto:qmccombs@NequalsOne.com
>> > > > > http://www.NequalsOne.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > From: Rodrigo Reyes [mailto:rodrigo@instaservi.com]
>> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:22 AM
>> > > > > > To: Turbine Developers List
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanna help
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Bill
>> > > > > > We have been developing a commercial project here
>> > > > using the TDK
>> > > > > > 2.2 on Windows. From our point of view, it would be nice
>> > > > if Turbine
>> > > > > > could distribute the TDK as JPublish has been
>> > distributing its
>> > > > > > sample applications. The last time we saw, all they gave
>> > > > you was a
>> > > > > > jar, which once it had been deployed on any clean Tomcat
>> > > > > > installation, worked right off the box. Could we do the same
>> > > > > > with the TDK? It seems to us that could make the
>> > process a lot
>> > > > > > more trasparent.
>> > > > > > BTW, I would like to you a hand. Let me know how...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Rodrigo
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > From: "Bill" <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> > > > > > To: "turbine-dev" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
>> > > > > > Subject: Wanna help
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I know Henning cc'd his mail to me, to the list so
>> > > > > > hopefully everyone
>> > > > > > > knows where this is coming from.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > He suggested that one way I could help you guys out would
>> > > > > > be to work
>> > > > > > > on an updated TDK package. I guess at this point, I
>> > > > need to know
>> > > > > > > a couple of things:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 1. Does everyone agree with this?
>> > > > > > > 2. What work has been done toward this end
>> > already? 3. And
>> > > > > > > does anyone have any requirements/suggestions
>> > > > that havent
>> > > > > > > already been put forth?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I'm also willing to help with testing on Windows,
>> > > > however I have
>> > > > > > > NO experience to date with the Windows version.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Is there a special site out there for the development
>> > > > stuff? The
>> > > > > > > links off the main site arent very informative, one of them
>> > > > > > points to
>> > > > > > > a maven page instead of a turbine page, and I couldnt find
>> > > > > > > anything regarding testing.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > -b
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > --
>> > > > > > > Bill <bh...@collaborativefusion.com>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > >
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