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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Alex Woick <al...@wombaz.de> on 2008/06/05 13:29:47 UTC
vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Just recently backscatter starts to hit me very bad, and I found out
that bounces generated by qmail are not detected by the vbounce plugin.
Here is such a backscatter mail:
http://pastebin.com/m346c7979
Perhaps a phrase like "wasn't able to deliver your message" could be
added to the detection. Or very qmail-specific:
/qmail-send program .{80,140}This is a permanent error/
Tschau
Alex
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by SM <sm...@resistor.net>.
At 15:25 05-06-2008, David B Funk wrote:
>However RFC-2821, section 6.3 (Compensating for Irregularities) says
>that the originating SMTP server may add a message-id field when none
>appears. So if qmail is the first SMTP server to fondle the message
>it could/(should?) add a message-id.
It's up to the MSA to do that. AFAIK, the author of that software
does not agree that the message-id should be added.
Regards,
-sm
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by David B Funk <db...@engineering.uiowa.edu>.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Arvid Ephraim Picciani wrote:
> On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:34:42 mouss wrote:
> > the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA.
>
> RFC 2822 says: "every message SHOULD have a "Message-ID:" field."
> i can't find the addition "except the origin is a pre stoneage qmail server"
> here.
> Well.... it says "SHOULD". So actually your system is supposed to handle a
> non existing message id gracefully and qmail gets away once again.
However RFC-2821, section 6.3 (Compensating for Irregularities) says
that the originating SMTP server may add a message-id field when none
appears. So if qmail is the first SMTP server to fondle the message
it could/(should?) add a message-id.
--
Dave Funk University of Iowa
<dbfunk (at) engineering.uiowa.edu> College of Engineering
319/335-5751 FAX: 319/384-0549 1256 Seamans Center
Sys_admin/Postmaster/cell_admin Iowa City, IA 52242-1527
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Better is not better, 'standard' is better. B{
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>.
Arvid Ephraim Picciani wrote:
> On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:34:42 mouss wrote:
>
>> the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA.
>>
>
> RFC 2822 says: "every message SHOULD have a "Message-ID:" field."
> i can't find the addition "except the origin is a pre stoneage qmail server"
> here.
>
This has nothing to do with qmail. does qmail submit mail?
> Well.... it says "SHOULD". So actually your system is supposed to handle a
> non existing message id gracefully and qmail gets away once again.
>
>
your qmail hate takes you out. The message-id was added by his postfix,
so his spamassassin missed the bounce. qmail is not part of the game.
don't let your hate take over your brain.
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Arvid Ephraim Picciani <ae...@ibcsolutions.de>.
On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:34:42 mouss wrote:
> the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA.
RFC 2822 says: "every message SHOULD have a "Message-ID:" field."
i can't find the addition "except the origin is a pre stoneage qmail server"
here.
Well.... it says "SHOULD". So actually your system is supposed to handle a
non existing message id gracefully and qmail gets away once again.
--
best regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Arvid Ephraim Picciani
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Arvid Ephraim Picciani <ae...@ibcsolutions.de>.
On Friday 06 June 2008 00:11:37 mouss wrote:
> postfix adds missing (mandatory) headers because it works as a
> submission MTA, because this is how sendmail has always worked. This
> behaviour is no more desirable for an MX (it is good for an MSA).
Right now i get your point. I thought you where saying that an MSA shouldnt
add those either. Obviously if you are the last MX in the chain, adding a
message id is totally useless. i agree on that.
--
best regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Arvid Ephraim Picciani
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>.
Benny Pedersen wrote:
> On Thu, June 5, 2008 23:34, mouss wrote:
>
>
>> stop incriminating qmail. the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA. if
>> postfix adds a missing message-id, then it's a postfix problem, not a
>> qmail problem.
>>
>
> if qmail, if postfix, maybe he have 2 mta ? :-)
>
so what?
> postfix add mta hostname to message-id if its not valid else it leaves it as is
>
postfix adds missing (mandatory) headers because it works as a
submission MTA, because this is how sendmail has always worked. This
behaviour is no more desirable for an MX (it is good for an MSA).
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.org>.
On Thu, June 5, 2008 23:34, mouss wrote:
> stop incriminating qmail. the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA. if
> postfix adds a missing message-id, then it's a postfix problem, not a
> qmail problem.
if qmail, if postfix, maybe he have 2 mta ? :-)
postfix add mta hostname to message-id if its not valid else it leaves it as is
Benny Pedersen
Need more webspace ? http://www.servage.net/?coupon=cust37098
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.org>.
On Fri, June 6, 2008 14:33, Alex Woick wrote:
>>> whitelist_bounce_relays lxrouter.wombaz.localnet *.prima.de
should be ok if its public dns
>>>> Message-Id: <20...@lxrouter.wombaz.localnet>
postfix add $myhostname here
> For the time being, I solved the problem by removing
> "lxrouter.wombaz.localnet" from whitelist_bounce_relays.
imho this is wroung
> <something>@prima.de is already always present in my Received: lines,
> since I send all of my mail through their smarthost.
postconf -d | grep rewrite
here is what i do:
local_header_rewrite_clients = permit_inet_interfaces
remote_header_rewrite_domain = localhost.junc.org
when email from outside my inet interfaces have not fqdn i add & rewrite with
localhost.junc.org with resolves to 127.0.0.1 :)
if its inside inet interface i add $mydomain
now that is in place i can score on this fact in spamassassin :)
Benny Pedersen
Need more webspace ? http://www.servage.net/?coupon=cust37098
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Alex Woick <al...@wombaz.de>.
>> Yes I did, and all the other backscatter is detected by vbounce fine:
>> whitelist_bounce_relays lxrouter.wombaz.localnet *.prima.de
>>
>> But now I saw the Message-Id contained my local mail server name from
>> whitelist_bounce_relays:
>>
>>> Message-Id: <20...@lxrouter.wombaz.localnet>
>>
>> The "lxrouter.wombaz.localnet" can only be generated by my system. It is
>> the intranet name of my mail server. This leads me to the conclusion
>> that qmail doesn't insert a Message-Id
> stop incriminating qmail. the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA. if
> postfix adds a missing message-id, then it's a postfix problem, not a
> qmail problem.
I have no intention of starting a qmail/postfix/whatever flame war. I
was not aware that qmail seems to be a delicate subject for some people.
I simply had a problem with not detecting backscatter.
For the time being, I solved the problem by removing
"lxrouter.wombaz.localnet" from whitelist_bounce_relays.
<something>@prima.de is already always present in my Received: lines,
since I send all of my mail through their smarthost.
Tschau
Alex
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>.
Alex Woick wrote:
>>> Just recently backscatter starts to hit me very bad, and I found out
>>> that bounces generated by qmail are not detected by the vbounce
>>> plugin. Here is such a backscatter mail:
>>>
>>> http://pastebin.com/m346c7979
>>>
>>> Perhaps a phrase like "wasn't able to deliver your message" could be
>>> added to the detection. Or very qmail-specific:
>>> /qmail-send program .{80,140}This is a permanent error/
>>
>> it hits (BOUNCE_MESSAGE, ANY_BOUNCE_MESSAGE) here (3.2.4).
>>
>>
>> did you set the whitelist_bounce_relays directive as documented in
>> http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/VBounceRuleset
>
> Yes I did, and all the other backscatter is detected by vbounce fine:
> whitelist_bounce_relays lxrouter.wombaz.localnet *.prima.de
>
> But now I saw the Message-Id contained my local mail server name from
> whitelist_bounce_relays:
>
>> Message-Id: <20...@lxrouter.wombaz.localnet>
>
> The "lxrouter.wombaz.localnet" can only be generated by my system. It is
> the intranet name of my mail server. This leads me to the conclusion
> that qmail doesn't insert a Message-Id
stop incriminating qmail. the Message-id must be supplied by the MUA. if
postfix adds a missing message-id, then it's a postfix problem, not a
qmail problem.
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by Alex Woick <al...@wombaz.de>.
>> Just recently backscatter starts to hit me very bad, and I found out
>> that bounces generated by qmail are not detected by the vbounce
>> plugin. Here is such a backscatter mail:
>>
>> http://pastebin.com/m346c7979
>>
>> Perhaps a phrase like "wasn't able to deliver your message" could be
>> added to the detection. Or very qmail-specific:
>> /qmail-send program .{80,140}This is a permanent error/
>
> it hits (BOUNCE_MESSAGE, ANY_BOUNCE_MESSAGE) here (3.2.4).
>
>
> did you set the whitelist_bounce_relays directive as documented in
> http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/VBounceRuleset
Yes I did, and all the other backscatter is detected by vbounce fine:
whitelist_bounce_relays lxrouter.wombaz.localnet *.prima.de
But now I saw the Message-Id contained my local mail server name from
whitelist_bounce_relays:
> Message-Id: <20...@lxrouter.wombaz.localnet>
The "lxrouter.wombaz.localnet" can only be generated by my system. It is
the intranet name of my mail server. This leads me to the conclusion
that qmail doesn't insert a Message-Id and the above was added by my MTA
(postfix) - and this prohibits the message from being detected as
backscatter.
Tschau
Alex
Re: vbounce does not catch qmail bounces
Posted by mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>.
Alex Woick wrote:
> Just recently backscatter starts to hit me very bad, and I found out
> that bounces generated by qmail are not detected by the vbounce
> plugin. Here is such a backscatter mail:
>
> http://pastebin.com/m346c7979
>
> Perhaps a phrase like "wasn't able to deliver your message" could be
> added to the detection. Or very qmail-specific:
> /qmail-send program .{80,140}This is a permanent error/
it hits (BOUNCE_MESSAGE, ANY_BOUNCE_MESSAGE) here (3.2.4).
did you set the whitelist_bounce_relays directive as documented in
http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/VBounceRuleset
?