RE: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approac h

[Brian Johnson <bj...@REALCOMMUNITIES.com>]

Richard (et al?),

I'm very interested in using the struts framework, but one thing you
mentioned below is a bit disconcerting to me and I'd like to pick your brain
on this a little more if you don't mind?

You said:
--> Cons
--> - Removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout
--> of form in traditional tools such as DreamWeaver

- Is this because DreamWeaver doesn't have (robust?) support for ".tld"
files?
- Is this because DreamWeaver can't interpret the 'form' elements as tags
from a tag library and render them as html form elements for the designer?
- Is this because of some other reason?

I know DreamWeaver is extensible via JavaScript - Would providing an
"HTML-Form-Tag" <--> "Struts Tag Lib" conversion solve this issue?

I haven't started using struts, but I've been lurking about on this list for
a week now just to try and get a heads up to what is going on. I understand
that you use struts JSP tag library form tags within the JSP files to enable
the struts servlet to process (via beans, ejb) the form automatically then
to have a JSP render the resulting page. Am I basically close?

I appreciate the help and information.

Brian Johnson

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Vowles [mailto:rvowles@sew.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 3:21 PM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only
approach


I have been thinking on this and I'd say that I'd break it into pros & cons
(and hopefully Craig will comment <grin>)

Pros
- More strongly encourages the sep. of business logic from presentation
logic.
- Allows for the support of multiple languages through the use of the
resource mechanism
- Views (JSPs) are considerably cleaner
- Whole application is easier to maintain

Cons
- Removes ability for graphic designers to provide layout of form in
traditional tools such as DreamWeaver
- Forces graphic designers and developers to work more closely

A big con for me is that it doesn't work with Resin (IMHO, the best JSP
engine out there) - Scott disagrees with the idea that bodyContent should be
available in doEndTag - the spec apparently implies that it should be only
available until before the beginning of doEndTag (i.e. the last
doAfterBody). Since Struts uses the idea that the bodyContent is available
in doEndTag.... He has asked Sun for a ruling.

I'm encouraging people to do the doAfterBody thing.

I'd like to add two things to Struts:
(1) an option to output in well formed XML instead of HTML (so I can use
XSL-T to convert) and
(2) greater options on the fields - an indication as to what data type it is
for example, and maybe constaints so that the Form bean can be derived from
the page and used as a base class.

Time being the only problem <sigh>

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: <Ri...@ubsw.com>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach


> I would like my development group to start using struts for web
> development. Where can I find a list of struts advantages over the more
> traditional JSP only approach? This would help me "sell" the framework
> in my group.
>
> I took a look at readme file in the source, but I am looking for more
> of a comparison of struts vs. jsp only.
>
> I appreciate any information.
>
> Thanks,
> Rich
>
>
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Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

["Craig R. McClanahan" <Cr...@eng.sun.com>]

Eduardo Pelegri--Llopart wrote:

> Tools like DW ignore, but remember, tags that they do not understand,
> so, depending on the structure of the taglibs, it is very much possible
> to write very simple extensions to DW (in JavaScript) that will provide
> a very good page authoring experience while using tag libraries.
>
> A summer intern working with me is looking at this type of issues.  We
> should look at struts a bit more.  We are currently looking at DW, but
> GoLive-5 is a similar beast, and we have good contacts with both product
> groups, as well as with other vendors like WebGain, etc.
>
> We will give it a look and will report "soon".
>
>         - eduard/o
>

Besides these efforts, another development tool project called "Zefiro" is just
getting started, and one of the high priority goals is to have the tool be aware
of (and generate code and config files for) Struts.  Surf over to
<http://zefiro.sourceforge.net> for more information about Zefiro.

Craig McClanahan

Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Eduardo Pelegri--Llopart <Ed...@eng.sun.com>]

Tools like DW ignore, but remember, tags that they do not understand,
so, depending on the structure of the taglibs, it is very much possible
to write very simple extensions to DW (in JavaScript) that will provide
a very good page authoring experience while using tag libraries.

A summer intern working with me is looking at this type of issues.  We
should look at struts a bit more.  We are currently looking at DW, but
GoLive-5 is a similar beast, and we have good contacts with both product
groups, as well as with other vendors like WebGain, etc.

We will give it a look and will report "soon".

	- eduard/o


Richard Vowles wrote:
> 
> The whole point of DreamWeaver like products is that it is able to provide a
> very good visual idea as to what the form is supposed to look like.
> Therefore it looks for tags such as <INPUT etc. It doesn't recognise
> <struts:form and <struts:text and so forth.
> 
> Unless you can someone how get DreamWeaver ULTRA to understand what "kind"
> of output (maybe give sample output?) from given TLDs that are used in a
> project, then DW's usefulness plumetts. I have successfully made a page that
> dropped almost all HTML output and it is all generated via XSL-T - but XSL-T
> requires a progammer again, so again, dilemma.
> 
> Taglibs are cool, they provide tool boxes and make it easier to
> multi-language and reduce Java code, but at the expense of your graphical
> development environment?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Johnson" <bj...@REALCOMMUNITIES.com>
> To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:58 AM
> Subject: RE: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach
> 
> > Richard (et al?),
> >
> > I'm very interested in using the struts framework, but one thing you
> > mentioned below is a bit disconcerting to me and I'd like to pick your
> brain
> > on this a little more if you don't mind?

Re: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach

[Richard Vowles <rv...@sew.co.nz>]

The whole point of DreamWeaver like products is that it is able to provide a
very good visual idea as to what the form is supposed to look like.
Therefore it looks for tags such as <INPUT etc. It doesn't recognise
<struts:form and <struts:text and so forth.

Unless you can someone how get DreamWeaver ULTRA to understand what "kind"
of output (maybe give sample output?) from given TLDs that are used in a
project, then DW's usefulness plumetts. I have successfully made a page that
dropped almost all HTML output and it is all generated via XSL-T - but XSL-T
requires a progammer again, so again, dilemma.

Taglibs are cool, they provide tool boxes and make it easier to
multi-language and reduce Java code, but at the expense of your graphical
development environment?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson" <bj...@REALCOMMUNITIES.com>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: Advantages of Struts (Model 2 Framework) vs. JSP only approach


> Richard (et al?),
>
> I'm very interested in using the struts framework, but one thing you
> mentioned below is a bit disconcerting to me and I'd like to pick your
brain
> on this a little more if you don't mind?