[ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Martin Man <Ma...@seznam.cz>]

hello world

[boring background]

I'd like to inform all of you, that the company I work for (www.swac.de) has
decided to release one of our key products under opensource license. This
product uses our inhouse developed C++ port of Jakarta Avalon Framework, which
however has never been released to public (though that in CVS and tar.gzips
all code is marked as being released under APL). The release was not made
public basicly because of my lazines and lack of time :-(.

[coming back to avalon stuff]

At this moment I'm needing some assistance (IANAL) regarding the project name,
since before the first release I'd like to make all things clean.

The port is named CCAvalon Framework, since it is developed in C++ and will be
released under APL. I'm not sure whether this name is not conflicting with the
license under which Avalon itself is published because I'm not quite able to
tell whether CCAvalon can be considered as being "derived product", and
whether I'm not using the "Avalon" part of the name CCAvalon to promote the
product itself.

I'd very appreciate if someone can guide me a bit...

I'm not in any way aspiring (at least no yet) at making CCAvalon an official
product of ASF (though I'd be very happy if it happens), but if there will be
any interest, I'm willing to do the necessary.

The sources will be available as soon as the name/license issues are resolved.

I can tell that under hoods we are using log4cpp (log4cpp.sf.net) to do the
logging part and QT Library (www.trolltech.com) (controversal but convenient
decision) to do the strings, hashtables and these lowlevel things. Doxygen
(www.doxygen.org) is used to extract Javadoc-like documentation and the
release is equipped with full set of testcases written using cppunit
(cppunit.sf.net).

The code is compilable/working/tested under Linux and WIN32 and 
Debian/GNU Linux packages are being made regularily.

I'm willing to answer any of the questions that can help to make the project
public ASAP.

sincerly,
Martin Man [the emeritus commiter of the Apache Cocoon II project]

Re: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

Martin,

(IANAL)

Just to be on the safe side, choose a completely new name, release 
everything under the ASL, and follow all the normal ASL conventions (ie 
the "This product includes..." statement and the like) to the letter. 
Additionally, you might want to get the company lawyer to take a look.

cheers!

- Leo



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org

Re: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Sunday 09 November 2003 22:31, Martin Man wrote:
> > FYI, there is also a C# version under construction to run on .Net, and
> > IMHO there could be forming a community to support non-Java ports.
>
> thanx, going to google for them...

No need. Hammet does it right here in Avalon-land...

cvs -d :pserver:mman@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic co 
avalon-sandbox/avalon-net

(oops, he mention in separate mail alternate location)

;o)



Niclas

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org

Re: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Martin Man <Ma...@seznam.cz>]

On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 08:28:35PM +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Sunday 09 November 2003 18:36, Martin Man wrote:
> > The port is named CCAvalon Framework, since it is developed in C++ and will
> > be released under APL. I'm not sure whether this name is not conflicting
> > with the license under which Avalon itself is published because I'm not
> > quite able to tell whether CCAvalon can be considered as being "derived
> > product", and whether I'm not using the "Avalon" part of the name CCAvalon
> > to promote the product itself.
> 
> AFAICT, you are not supposed to use Apache names in derived products, without 
> the expressed permission of the relevant PMC.

Sure I know that, my questions should have been formulated as:

Is CCAvalon Framework, the C++ port of Jakarta Avalon Framework derived
product of Jakarta Avalon Framework?

Should I try to obtain the permission, and if so what'd be the best way to do
it.

Should I choose completely new name without any connection to Avalon?

Am I then able to safely mention that the port is based on Jakarta Avalon,
e.g., could this be considered "promoting the product using Avalon name" ??

> > I'm not in any way aspiring (at least no yet) at making CCAvalon an
> > official product of ASF (though I'd be very happy if it happens), but if
> > there will be any interest, I'm willing to do the necessary.
> 
> That could be discussed, but as of now there are a few problems (see below).

I know about all of them, that's exactly why I'm not at this moment even
considering it. All of them can be refactored out (some of them requiring huge
amount of time) but there must be interest for it.

> [snip the discussion about licenses of different CCAvalon dependencies]
>
> BSD, Mozilla, APL are considered "commercial-friendly", whereas GPL, LGPL
> and others are less so, and not compatible.
> 
> > [snip/]
> 
> > Martin Man [the emeritus commiter of the Apache Cocoon II project]
> 
> If you were active committer, you should know the licensing issues already.

sure I do know, completely agree with you.

My main goal at this moment is to get the code out so that others can
see/use/modify it without being scared whether I'm not violating any of the
licenses. The questions above stay unanswered for me.

> FYI, there is also a C# version under construction to run on .Net, and IMHO 
> there could be forming a community to support non-Java ports.

thanx, going to google for them...

> Niclas

thanx,
martin

Re: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Sunday 09 November 2003 18:36, Martin Man wrote:
> The port is named CCAvalon Framework, since it is developed in C++ and will
> be released under APL. I'm not sure whether this name is not conflicting
> with the license under which Avalon itself is published because I'm not
> quite able to tell whether CCAvalon can be considered as being "derived
> product", and whether I'm not using the "Avalon" part of the name CCAvalon
> to promote the product itself.

AFAICT, you are not supposed to use Apache names in derived products, without 
the expressed permission of the relevant PMC.

> I'm not in any way aspiring (at least no yet) at making CCAvalon an
> official product of ASF (though I'd be very happy if it happens), but if
> there will be any interest, I'm willing to do the necessary.

That could be discussed, but as of now there are a few problems (see below).

> I can tell that under hoods we are using log4cpp (log4cpp.sf.net) to do the
> logging part 

Haven't checked this.

> and QT Library (www.trolltech.com) (controversal but
> convenient decision) to do the strings, hashtables and these lowlevel
> things. 

QT, OTOH, is a non-APL compatible license. IIRC, QT is under (L)GPL and the 
ASF has deemed it non-compatible to redistribute and/or derive work from such 
products.
That said, if it is "low-level stuff" only, this could perhaps be refactored.

> Doxygen (www.doxygen.org) is used to extract Javadoc-like
> documentation and the release is equipped with full set of testcases
> written using cppunit (cppunit.sf.net).

Haven't checked this one either, but same principle. BSD, Mozilla, APL are 
considered "commercial-friendly", whereas GPL, LGPL and others are less so, 
and not compatible.

> The code is compilable/working/tested under Linux and WIN32 and
> Debian/GNU Linux packages are being made regularily.

> I'm willing to answer any of the questions that can help to make the
> project public ASAP.

> Martin Man [the emeritus commiter of the Apache Cocoon II project]

If you were active committer, you should know the licensing issues already.

FYI, there is also a C# version under construction to run on .Net, and IMHO 
there could be forming a community to support non-Java ports.

Niclas

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org

Re: [Lintouch-dev] RE: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Martin Man <Ma...@seznam.cz>]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:58:31AM +0000, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Martin Man wrote:
> >
> >I'd like to contribute it, but at this moment my C++ port uses at least QT,
> >log4cpp and cppunit which are (from the license point of view) ASF
> >incompatibile. Refactoring all of them out could be a major effort and I'd
> >like to first know whether there is an interest for it before touching the
> >code.
> 
> :)  The APR  (Apache Portable Runtime) would be a better foundation for
> building a framework like this without tying it to a graphical library
> (QT)--which in itself can be controversial depending on who you talk to.

I agree completely with you, in fact I don't see any problem replacing qt
dependence with apr dependence (except the manpower that I don't have at the
moment)

> My question is how big is your Avalon++ project?  If it is *just* the
> interfaces, then there is no big issue.  Of course the C++ equiv. of an
> interface is a pure virtual abstract class.

The code resembles Avalon Framework (just framework), e.g., it's a set of
interfaces and several Default* implementations.

The code is already avaliable in the public cvs, you can check it and see how
complicated it is.

I've updated, renamed and relicensed the code and put it to the cvs, you can
check it out using 

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@lintouch.org:/publiccvs login
(press enter when prompted for password)

cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@lintouch.org:/publiccvs co swaloun-framework

(note that ATM you probably wont be able to compile it,
since two small dependent libraries are not yet in the cvs, but they'll be
there hopefully during this night)

as you can see I've renamed the project from ccavalon to swaloun-framework and
placed it under GPL (due to QT dependency, QT is itself GPL) to not conflict
with original avalon license.

I hope I've not violated any rights...

sincerly,
martin

p.s. feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions

Re: [Lintouch-dev] RE: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>]

Martin Man wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 11:20:20AM -0500, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> 
>>>I'd like to inform all of you, that the company I work for (www.swac.de)
>>>has decided to release one of our key products under opensource license.
>>>This product uses our inhouse developed C++ port of Jakarta Avalon
>>>Framework
>>
>>Why don't you contribute the port to the Apache Avalon project?  There is a
>>port for C# also in process.
> 
> 
> I'd like to contibure it, but at this moment my C++ port uses at least QT,
> log4cpp and cppunit which are (from the license point of view) ASF
> incompatibile. Refactoring all of them out cound be a major effort and I'd
> like to first know whether there is an interest for it before touching the
> code.

:)  The APR  (Apache Portable Runtime) would be a better foundation for building
a framework like this without tying it to a graphical library (QT)--which in
itself can be controversial depending on who you talk to.

My question is how big is your Avalon++ project?  If it is *just* the
interfaces, then there is no big issue.  Of course the C++ equiv. of an
interface is a pure virtual abstract class.


> 
> 
>>As a side note, I would suggest that any C/C++ port of Avalon ought to also
>>be based upon APR, which would vastly improve the portability of the code.
> 
> 
> That's a good point and I will investigate it further to see how easy it will
> be to use APR wherever possible...
> 
> 
>>	--- Noel
> 
> 
> thanx,
> martin



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org

Re: [Lintouch-dev] RE: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

[Martin Man <Ma...@seznam.cz>]

On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 11:20:20AM -0500, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I'd like to inform all of you, that the company I work for (www.swac.de)
> > has decided to release one of our key products under opensource license.
> > This product uses our inhouse developed C++ port of Jakarta Avalon
> > Framework
> 
> Why don't you contribute the port to the Apache Avalon project?  There is a
> port for C# also in process.

I'd like to contibure it, but at this moment my C++ port uses at least QT,
log4cpp and cppunit which are (from the license point of view) ASF
incompatibile. Refactoring all of them out cound be a major effort and I'd
like to first know whether there is an interest for it before touching the
code.

> As a side note, I would suggest that any C/C++ port of Avalon ought to also
> be based upon APR, which would vastly improve the portability of the code.

That's a good point and I will investigate it further to see how easy it will
be to use APR wherever possible...

> 	--- Noel

thanx,
martin

RE: [ANN] C++ Port of Avalon Framework

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> I'd like to inform all of you, that the company I work for (www.swac.de)
has
> decided to release one of our key products under opensource license. This
> product uses our inhouse developed C++ port of Jakarta Avalon Framework

Why don't you contribute the port to the Apache Avalon project?  There is a
port for C# also in process.

> I'm not quite able to tell whether CCAvalon can be considered as being
> "derived product"

The fact that you, yourself, refer to it as a port ought to be suggestive.

> I'm not in any way aspiring (at least no yet) at making CCAvalon an
official
> product of ASF (though I'd be very happy if it happens), but if there will
> be any interest, I'm willing to do the necessary.

The Avalon PMC would have to decide to accept the project, and it would come
in  through the Apache Incubator, where the various IP issues would be
resolved.

One of the topics currently under discussion relates to distributed
containers.  It would be a very interesting idea to see Avalon adopt SOAP as
a means for communication between distributed components.  This would allow
components in Avalon for Java, Avalon for C# and Avalon for C to
inter-operate.

As a side note, I would suggest that any C/C++ port of Avalon ought to also
be based upon APR, which would vastly improve the portability of the code.

	--- Noel


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org