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Posted to marketing@cloudstack.apache.org by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> on 2021/06/03 09:00:14 UTC

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.

> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)? Thanks.

Regards.

________________________________
From: Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Cc: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

> Hi Infra,
>
> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

> or (b) by an external Wordpress
> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:32 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks for replying Roman. So as I understand, there is no official ASF Legal or Infra policy, correct?

Not all foundation policies are driven by Legal or Infra. Some, for
example, are driven by VP Brand.

In this particular case -- I'd day it is a branding/PR issue.

> TLP PMC can decide how they want to host, manage, publish the project website and blogs?

Anyone can host a website or blog anywhere. The real question is
what's the only website/blog that can speak on behalf of the entire
PMC. I believe this to be a branding/PR issue and I would expect the
requirement for it to include a domain name in the .apache.org domain.
I don't think hosting technology should be part of the consideration.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:32 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks for replying Roman. So as I understand, there is no official ASF Legal or Infra policy, correct?

Not all foundation policies are driven by Legal or Infra. Some, for
example, are driven by VP Brand.

In this particular case -- I'd day it is a branding/PR issue.

> TLP PMC can decide how they want to host, manage, publish the project website and blogs?

Anyone can host a website or blog anywhere. The real question is
what's the only website/blog that can speak on behalf of the entire
PMC. I believe this to be a branding/PR issue and I would expect the
requirement for it to include a domain name in the .apache.org domain.
I don't think hosting technology should be part of the consideration.

Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@apache.org>.

Thanks for replying Roman. So as I understand, there is no official ASF
Legal or Infra policy, correct?
TLP PMC can decide how they want to host, manage, publish the project
website and blogs?

Regards.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:41 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> FWIW: I don't think this requires any input from VP Legal at this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 12:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
>> (+ ASF legal)
>>
>> ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC
>>
>> The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and
>> blog can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a
>> 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra
>> but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both
>> ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on
>> requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content
>> backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from
>> source code).
>>
>> Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project
>> website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based
>> CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
>> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com. Out of which the
>> netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?
>>
>> For reference this thread can be tracked/read here -
>> https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Cc:* Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>;
>> gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
>> users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have
>> such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud
>> and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
>> It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a
>> turnkey solution for cloud providers.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gentle ping here.
>>
>> I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
>> website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
>> manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
>> policies.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrija
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>>
>> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
>> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
>> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
>> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
>> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com
>> <
>> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
>> users@infra.apache.org
>> <us...@infra.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>>
>>
>> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
>> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
>> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
>> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
>> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>>
>>
>> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
>> requirement for the project website and blog?
>> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>>
>> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
>> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>>
>> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
>> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
>> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
>> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>>
>>
>> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>>
>> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
>> https://wppusher.com/
>> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>>
>> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
>> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
>> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
>>
>> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
>>
>> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>>
>> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
>> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>>
>> Hi Infra,
>>
>> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
>> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
>> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
>> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>>
>>
>> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
>> at [1].
>>
>> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
>> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
>> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
>> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
>> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>>
>> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
>> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
>> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
>> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>>
>> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
>> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
>> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
>> much like other portals/website)
>>
>>
>> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
>> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
>> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
>> attempting to self-host.
>>
>> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
>> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>>
>> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
>> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>>
>> or (b) by an external Wordpress
>> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
>> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
>> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
>> CNAME/dns record.
>>
>>
>> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
>> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
>> Apache product's website.
>>
>> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
>> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
>> Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>>
>>
>> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
>> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
>> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
>> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>>
>> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
>> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
>> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg Stein
>> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Andrija Panić
>>
>>
>>

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@apache.org>.

Thanks for replying Roman. So as I understand, there is no official ASF
Legal or Infra policy, correct?
TLP PMC can decide how they want to host, manage, publish the project
website and blogs?

Regards.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:41 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> FWIW: I don't think this requires any input from VP Legal at this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 12:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
>> (+ ASF legal)
>>
>> ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC
>>
>> The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and
>> blog can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a
>> 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra
>> but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both
>> ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on
>> requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content
>> backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from
>> source code).
>>
>> Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project
>> website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based
>> CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
>> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com. Out of which the
>> netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?
>>
>> For reference this thread can be tracked/read here -
>> https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Cc:* Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>;
>> gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
>> users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have
>> such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud
>> and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
>> It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a
>> turnkey solution for cloud providers.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gentle ping here.
>>
>> I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
>> website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
>> manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
>> policies.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrija
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>>
>> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
>> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
>> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
>> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
>> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com
>> <
>> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
>> users@infra.apache.org
>> <us...@infra.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>>
>>
>> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
>> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
>> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
>> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
>> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>>
>>
>> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
>> requirement for the project website and blog?
>> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>>
>> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
>> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>>
>> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
>> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
>> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
>> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>>
>>
>> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>>
>> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
>> https://wppusher.com/
>> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>>
>> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
>> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
>> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
>> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>>
>> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
>>
>> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
>>
>> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>>
>> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
>> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>>
>> Hi Infra,
>>
>> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
>> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
>> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
>> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>>
>>
>> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
>> at [1].
>>
>> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
>> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
>> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
>> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
>> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>>
>> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
>> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
>> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
>> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>>
>> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
>> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
>> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
>> much like other portals/website)
>>
>>
>> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
>> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
>> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
>> attempting to self-host.
>>
>> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
>> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>>
>> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
>> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>>
>> or (b) by an external Wordpress
>> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
>> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
>> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
>> CNAME/dns record.
>>
>>
>> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
>> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
>> Apache product's website.
>>
>> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
>> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
>> Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>>
>>
>> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
>> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
>> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
>> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>>
>> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
>> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
>> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg Stein
>> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Andrija Panić
>>
>>
>>

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.

FWIW: I don't think this requires any input from VP Legal at this point.

Thanks,
Roman.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 12:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:

> (+ ASF legal)
>
> ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC
>
> The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and blog
> can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a
> 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra
> but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both
> ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on
> requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content
> backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from
> source code).
>
> Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project
> website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based
> CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com. Out of which the
> netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?
>
> For reference this thread can be tracked/read here -
> https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>;
> gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
> users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have
> such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud
> and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
> It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a
> turnkey solution for cloud providers.
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gentle ping here.
>
> I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
> website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
> manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
> policies.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrija
>
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>
> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <
> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org
> <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
>
> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
> requirement for the project website and blog?
> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>
> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
>
> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>
> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
> https://wppusher.com/
> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>
> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Regards.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
>
> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
>
> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>
> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>
> Hi Infra,
>
> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>
>
> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
> at [1].
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> much like other portals/website)
>
>
> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
> attempting to self-host.
>
> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>
> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>
> or (b) by an external Wordpress
> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> CNAME/dns record.
>
>
> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
> Apache product's website.
>
> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>
>
> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>
> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>
> [1]
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>
>
>
> --
>
> Andrija Panić
>
>
>

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

Hi Rohit,

(moving legal-discuss to Bcc, this is really a technical discussion now)

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 11:24 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:

> ...I'll test and PoC and share results here if we can do something like this;
>
> Fork www repo of a apache project
> Integrate with netlify for non-technical person who uses UI-editor to work/with save/create stuff
> Have a Github action that raises PR to the source repo when a commit is made
> ACS bot or authorised committer/PMC merge/publish the website ..

This sounds like a good plan to me. I think it's good for the PMC to
be in the loop for final publishing, and your setup might allow using
the "non-technical persons UI" for some parts of the website only
which is nice.

-Bertrand

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

Hi Rohit,

(moving legal-discuss to Bcc, this is really a technical discussion now)

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 11:24 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:

> ...I'll test and PoC and share results here if we can do something like this;
>
> Fork www repo of a apache project
> Integrate with netlify for non-technical person who uses UI-editor to work/with save/create stuff
> Have a Github action that raises PR to the source repo when a commit is made
> ACS bot or authorised committer/PMC merge/publish the website ..

This sounds like a good plan to me. I think it's good for the PMC to
be in the loop for final publishing, and your setup might allow using
the "non-technical persons UI" for some parts of the website only
which is nice.

-Bertrand

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Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback Bertrand. Our first choice is still to explore WordPress, the use-case is that non-technical persons who don't have Github accounts or git-know-how should still be able to contribute to CloudStack website and blogs (mostly marketing activities hence discussed on the marketing@c.a.o list). The current practice and requirements make it less inclusive for non-technical people involved.

+1 yes of course, we want the problem fixed and I think if we're not getting support on WordPress or similar CMSs then I would certainly try git-based/backed CMS + document this on our project cwiki for other projects to benefit.

As an experiment, I just finished playing with netlify and looks like it may work as long as Ivet and others are happy with it. Netlify CMS requires certain access to Github repo and commit access as a Github account to allow for commits when pages are edited/saved. One thing I really liked so far is the netlify import/setup took me less than half-hour so far 🙂

The current CloudStack website is based on middleman which is slow, I tested it with github+netflify and found each commit/change took about 5mins to publish (which is in-line what we got here):
Repo: https://github.com/cloudstack/netlify-cloudstack-www
Test preview/publishing: https://happy-brattain-4bd9a5.netlify.app/

I also tested Hugo based on your suggestion which was super quick
Repo: https://github.com/rhtyd/test-hugo-netlify
Test: https://sleepy-wilson-181ad1.netlify.app/

Due to this limitation, I'll test and PoC and share results here if we can do something like this;

  *   Fork www repo of a apache project
  *   Integrate with netlify for non-technical person who uses UI-editor to work/with save/create stuff
  *   Have a Github action that raises PR to the source repo when a commit is made
  *   ACS bot or authorised committer/PMC merge/publish the website

Regards.

________________________________
From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 13:51
To: Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org <le...@apache.org>; private@cloudstack.apache.org <pr...@cloudstack.apache.org>; marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> ...Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code -
> could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com...

I'm not from infra, but if you find a solution that can update an
ASF-hosted repository, using a client-side or a pass-through CMS
service I suppose that would work.

I see for example that Netlify CMS supports Hugo (
https://www.netlifycms.org/docs/hugo/ ) which several ASF projects use
for their websites, at least those:
https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories

I haven't checked if that requires specific settings on the GitHub
side, which is where our infra might need to get involved.

If you pursue such an option I would suggest creating a place (wiki
page or such) where people from other projects can collaborate, as I
suppose others might be interested.

Note also the poor man's variant of that which is to edit Markdown
using the built-in GitHub editor - but I suppose you're looking for
something less "technical" for content authors. And also
https://blogs.apache.org/ which I think I already mentioned.

-Bertrand

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback Bertrand. Our first choice is still to explore WordPress, the use-case is that non-technical persons who don't have Github accounts or git-know-how should still be able to contribute to CloudStack website and blogs (mostly marketing activities hence discussed on the marketing@c.a.o list). The current practice and requirements make it less inclusive for non-technical people involved.

+1 yes of course, we want the problem fixed and I think if we're not getting support on WordPress or similar CMSs then I would certainly try git-based/backed CMS + document this on our project cwiki for other projects to benefit.

As an experiment, I just finished playing with netlify and looks like it may work as long as Ivet and others are happy with it. Netlify CMS requires certain access to Github repo and commit access as a Github account to allow for commits when pages are edited/saved. One thing I really liked so far is the netlify import/setup took me less than half-hour so far 🙂

The current CloudStack website is based on middleman which is slow, I tested it with github+netflify and found each commit/change took about 5mins to publish (which is in-line what we got here):
Repo: https://github.com/cloudstack/netlify-cloudstack-www
Test preview/publishing: https://happy-brattain-4bd9a5.netlify.app/

I also tested Hugo based on your suggestion which was super quick
Repo: https://github.com/rhtyd/test-hugo-netlify
Test: https://sleepy-wilson-181ad1.netlify.app/

Due to this limitation, I'll test and PoC and share results here if we can do something like this;

  *   Fork www repo of a apache project
  *   Integrate with netlify for non-technical person who uses UI-editor to work/with save/create stuff
  *   Have a Github action that raises PR to the source repo when a commit is made
  *   ACS bot or authorised committer/PMC merge/publish the website

Regards.

________________________________
From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 13:51
To: Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org <le...@apache.org>; private@cloudstack.apache.org <pr...@cloudstack.apache.org>; marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> ...Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code -
> could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com...

I'm not from infra, but if you find a solution that can update an
ASF-hosted repository, using a client-side or a pass-through CMS
service I suppose that would work.

I see for example that Netlify CMS supports Hugo (
https://www.netlifycms.org/docs/hugo/ ) which several ASF projects use
for their websites, at least those:
https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories

I haven't checked if that requires specific settings on the GitHub
side, which is where our infra might need to get involved.

If you pursue such an option I would suggest creating a place (wiki
page or such) where people from other projects can collaborate, as I
suppose others might be interested.

Note also the poor man's variant of that which is to edit Markdown
using the built-in GitHub editor - but I suppose you're looking for
something less "technical" for content authors. And also
https://blogs.apache.org/ which I think I already mentioned.

-Bertrand

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> ...Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code -
> could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com...

I'm not from infra, but if you find a solution that can update an
ASF-hosted repository, using a client-side or a pass-through CMS
service I suppose that would work.

I see for example that Netlify CMS supports Hugo (
https://www.netlifycms.org/docs/hugo/ ) which several ASF projects use
for their websites, at least those:
https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories

I haven't checked if that requires specific settings on the GitHub
side, which is where our infra might need to get involved.

If you pursue such an option I would suggest creating a place (wiki
page or such) where people from other projects can collaborate, as I
suppose others might be interested.

Note also the poor man's variant of that which is to edit Markdown
using the built-in GitHub editor - but I suppose you're looking for
something less "technical" for content authors. And also
https://blogs.apache.org/ which I think I already mentioned.

-Bertrand

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.

FWIW: I don't think this requires any input from VP Legal at this point.

Thanks,
Roman.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 12:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:

> (+ ASF legal)
>
> ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC
>
> The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and blog
> can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a
> 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra
> but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both
> ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on
> requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content
> backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from
> source code).
>
> Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project
> website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based
> CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com. Out of which the
> netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?
>
> For reference this thread can be tracked/read here -
> https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>;
> gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>;
> users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have
> such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud
> and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
> It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a
> turnkey solution for cloud providers.
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gentle ping here.
>
> I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
> website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
> manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
> policies.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrija
>
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>
> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <
> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org
> <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
>
> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
> requirement for the project website and blog?
> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>
> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
>
> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>
> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
> https://wppusher.com/
> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>
> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Regards.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
>
> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
>
> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>
> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>
> Hi Infra,
>
> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>
>
> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
> at [1].
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> much like other portals/website)
>
>
> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
> attempting to self-host.
>
> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>
> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>
> or (b) by an external Wordpress
> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> CNAME/dns record.
>
>
> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
> Apache product's website.
>
> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>
>
> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>
> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>
> [1]
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>
>
>
> --
>
> Andrija Panić
>
>
>

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 9:07 AM Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> ...Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code -
> could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/,
> https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com...

I'm not from infra, but if you find a solution that can update an
ASF-hosted repository, using a client-side or a pass-through CMS
service I suppose that would work.

I see for example that Netlify CMS supports Hugo (
https://www.netlifycms.org/docs/hugo/ ) which several ASF projects use
for their websites, at least those:
https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories

I haven't checked if that requires specific settings on the GitHub
side, which is where our infra might need to get involved.

If you pursue such an option I would suggest creating a place (wiki
page or such) where people from other projects can collaborate, as I
suppose others might be interested.

Note also the poor man's variant of that which is to edit Markdown
using the built-in GitHub editor - but I suppose you're looking for
something less "technical" for content authors. And also
https://blogs.apache.org/ which I think I already mentioned.

-Bertrand

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Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

(+ ASF legal)

ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC

The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and blog can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from source code).

Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/, https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com<https://www.siteleaf.com/>. Out of which the netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?

For reference this thread can be tracked/read here - https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv


Regards.

________________________________
From: Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Cc: Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Hi everyone,

I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a turnkey solution for cloud providers.

Kind regards,







 

On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Gentle ping here.

I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
policies.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>> wrote:

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
(most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).

Regards.





------------------------------
*From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org<ma...@cloudstack.apache.org> <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; Apache
CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com> <
gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>>; ged@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> <ge...@apache.org>>; users@infra.apache.org<ma...@infra.apache.org>
<us...@infra.apache.org>>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.


The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com<http://Wordpress.com>, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com<http://wp.com>, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
(instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
Thanks.


Regards.

------------------------------
*From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
+ users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

Hi Infra,

The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

or (b) by an external Wordpress
hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
(either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E



--

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

(+ ASF legal)

ASF Legal and Infra, /cc ACS marketing and PMC

The Apache CloudStack project is exploring if the project website and blog can be moved to Wordpress either hosted by ASF infra or hosted by a 3rd-party managed service such as wordpress.com. We've asked ASF infra but haven't heard from them in the last three weeks, so asking again both ASF legal and infra where it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project websites and blogs to have version control i.e. content backed by a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from source code).

Alternatively, if indeed it is a policy of the ASF to require project website and blog tracked by git/source code - could we explore git-based CMS services such as https://forestry.io, https://www.netlifycms.org/, https://cloudcannon.com/, https://www.siteleaf.com<https://www.siteleaf.com/>. Out of which the netlifycms is opensource and could be hosted either by netlify or ASF infra?

For reference this thread can be tracked/read here - https://markmail.org/message/6snytriinby3dgzv


Regards.

________________________________
From: Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2021 20:36
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Cc: Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Hi everyone,

I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a turnkey solution for cloud providers.

Kind regards,







 

On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Gentle ping here.

I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
policies.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>> wrote:

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
(most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).

Regards.





------------------------------
*From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org<ma...@cloudstack.apache.org> <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; Apache
CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com> <
gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>>; ged@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> <ge...@apache.org>>; users@infra.apache.org<ma...@infra.apache.org>
<us...@infra.apache.org>>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.


The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com<http://Wordpress.com>, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com<http://wp.com>, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
(instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
Thanks.


Regards.

------------------------------
*From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
+ users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

Hi Infra,

The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

or (b) by an external Wordpress
hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
(either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E



--

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi everyone,

I am writing to just check if we can open this discussion again. I have such a nice interview with Wido den Hollander and materials on why Cloud and Hosting Providers should choose CloudStack and how they benefit.
It is a pity we cannot share these thing and show that CloudStack is a turnkey solution for cloud providers.

Kind regards,

On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Gentle ping here.

I would like to emphasise what Rohit said - "most users won't build
website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
policies.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>> wrote:

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
(most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).

Regards.

------------------------------
*From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org<ma...@cloudstack.apache.org> <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; Apache
CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>>; gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com> <
gstein@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>>; ged@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> <ge...@apache.org>>; users@infra.apache.org<ma...@infra.apache.org>
<us...@infra.apache.org>>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com<http://Wordpress.com>, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com<http://wp.com>, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
(instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
Thanks.

Regards.

------------------------------
*From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
*To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
*Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
+ users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

Hi Infra,

The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

or (b) by an external Wordpress
hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
(either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Ivet Petrova <iv...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi everyone,

Kind regards,

On 15 Jun 2021, at 1:44, Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Gentle ping here.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>> wrote:

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Regards.

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

Regards.

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
+ users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

Hi Infra,

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
Wordpress, Drupal etc.

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>.

Gentle ping here.

I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
policies.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>
> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <
> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org
> <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>
>
> > The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> > access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> > source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> > generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> > the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
> requirement for the project website and blog?
> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>
> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>
> > We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> > control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> > primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> > over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>
> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
> https://wppusher.com/
> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>
> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Regards.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> > + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>
> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>
> > Hi Infra,
> >
> > The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> > migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> > consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> > with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>
> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
> at [1].
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> > Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> > technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> > which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> > much like other portals/website)
>
> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
> attempting to self-host.
>
> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>
> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>
> > or (b) by an external Wordpress
> > hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> > this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> > (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> > CNAME/dns record.
>
> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
> Apache product's website.
>
> > Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> > websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> > Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>
> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>
> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>


-- 

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Andrija Panic <an...@gmail.com>.

Gentle ping here.

I would like to emphasise what Rohit said -  "most users won't build
website and blogs from source code" - we need to find a suitable (yet
manageable) solution for the websites, while still complying with Apache
policies.

Thanks,
Andrija

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 11:25, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg, Mark, infra,
>
> Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous
> email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project
> websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository
> (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache
> CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <
> gstein@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org
> <us...@infra.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.
>
>
> > The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> > access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> > source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> > generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> > the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a
> requirement for the project website and blog?
> Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?
>
> Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in
> case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?
>
> > We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> > control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> > primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> > over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:
>
> https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
> https://wppusher.com/
> https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/
>
> But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com
> (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website
> but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Regards.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
> *To:* users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Cc:* marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Uploading Blog Post
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> > + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to
> participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)
>
> users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
> (mixing public/private lists is problematic)
>
> > Hi Infra,
> >
> > The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> > migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> > consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> > with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.
>
> In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
> at [1].
>
> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.
>
> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.
>
> > Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> > technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> > which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> > much like other portals/website)
>
> Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
> Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
> Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
> attempting to self-host.
>
> Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
> version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.
>
> (and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
> at wp.com; that isn't a concern)
>
> > or (b) by an external Wordpress
> > hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> > this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> > (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> > CNAME/dns record.
>
> Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
> downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
> Apache product's website.
>
> > Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> > websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> > Wordpress, Drupal etc.
>
> There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
> repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
> content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
> publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html
>
> We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
> github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
> quickly appear on the website when saved.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
>


-- 

Andrija Panić

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).

Regards.

________________________________
From: Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.

> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)? Thanks.

Regards.

________________________________
From: Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Cc: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

> Hi Infra,
>
> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

> or (b) by an external Wordpress
> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E

Re: Uploading Blog Post

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.

Hi Greg, Mark, infra,

Ping - any thoughts, advice, opinion on questions I asked in the previous email esp. if it is an official ASF/ASF-infra policy on requiring project websites and blogs to have version control and get on a git repository (most users won't build website and blogs from source code - just saying).

Regards.

________________________________
From: Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 14:30
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Apache CloudStack Marketing <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>; gstein@gmail.com <gs...@gmail.com>; ged@apache.org <ge...@apache.org>; users@infra.apache.org <us...@infra.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

Thanks Greg, Mark for replying.

> The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
> access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
> source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
> generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
> the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

I understand the requirement for code and docs. May I ask why this is a requirement for the project website and blog?
Is it any official ASF or ASF infra policy or simply a standard practice?

Could the availability of posts DB/table synced to Git repo solve that in case of a CMS such as Wordpress or Drupal?

> We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
> control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
> primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
> over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

I didn't find anything exactly but the following may be explored:

https://github.com/deliciousbrains/wp-migrate-db
https://wppusher.com/
https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-github-sync/

But I hear that TLPs can get a wordpress instance on wordpress.com (instead of hosting/managing ourselves), if not for the full TLP website but at least as a separate blog (say on blog.cloudstack.apache.org)? Thanks.

Regards.

________________________________
From: Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 18:18
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org <us...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Cc: marketing@cloudstack.apache.org <ma...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Uploading Blog Post

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:55:58AM +0000, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> + users@infra (kindly, reply all so your email is visible to participants on other mailing lists copied in this thread)

users@infra is a private list, so I've removed it from this reply
(mixing public/private lists is problematic)

> Hi Infra,
>
> The Apache CloudStack (ACS) community is discussing options to
> migrate the project website and blog to Wordpress [1] and the
> consensus among the people on this thread is they want to go ahead
> with this. Some attempts and discussions [2][3] were made in the past.

In particular, please note Mark Thomas' point, and my acknowledgement
at [1].

The short answer is "downstream users should have the ability to
access both code and website sources". That implies that the website
source is in a version control system (git or svn) that can be used to
generate the website, just as much as they can fetch sources to build
the [Apache Cloudstack] releases.

We have not found a way to post to Wordpress.com, sourced from version
control, so ... sorry to say: that is not a viable platform for the
primary website. If y'all can find a way to push from version control
over to wp.com, then yay! That would be great.

> Before we go ahead with a PMC vote, I want to ask Infra if this is
> technically feasible for the project website to be moved to Wordpress
> which (a) may be hosted by ASF infra (preferably as a VM or service
> much like other portals/website)

Projects may use VMs for their primary websites, but (historically)
Wordpress has had difficulties with self-hosting. As a result, the
Foundation uses wordpress.com to host the Feathercast blog rather than
attempting to self-host.

Per above, if you can construct a process running on a VM, that pushes
version control over to WP.com, then that problem is solved.

(and yes, the Foundation would be fine paying the yearly fee to host
at wp.com; that isn't a concern)

> or (b) by an external Wordpress
> hosting service which is under the control of ACS PMC. As I understand
> this will require the content to be migrated to a Wordpress instance
> (either option-a or option-b) and for ASF infra to update the
> CNAME/dns record.

Per the linked email, the primary concern is the ability for
downstream users to be able to view/construct all the content of an
Apache product's website.

> Out of curiosity - are there any other projects that have their
> websites/blogs based on a CMS (a not static website builds), say
> Wordpress, Drupal etc.

There are many projects currently using Pelican, sourced from a git
repository, to translate Github-Flavored Markdown files to HTML static
content. This is the Infra-recommended process/workflow for website
publishing. Please see https://infra.apache.org/project-site.html

We recommend this workflow as it allows content-editors to use
github.com to edit/preview pages very simply, and those changes will
quickly appear on the website when saved.

Best regards,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/6ec3ff74167a7feac0bd5ee6b4361deb0bea9eb8018df5a3a923b10f%40%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E