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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Boysenberry Payne <bo...@humaniteque.com> on 2005/10/01 19:40:57 UTC
Looking for good MP2 reference material
Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
could
purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my old
O' Reilly books?
Thanks,
Boysenberry
boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Foo Ji-Haw <jh...@nexlabs.com>.
Thanks for the link. I stand corrected on the book sales then.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Perrin Harkins" <pe...@elem.com>
To: "Foo Ji-Haw" <jh...@nexlabs.com>
Cc: "Boysenberry Payne" <bo...@humaniteque.com>; "mod_perl"
<mo...@perl.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
> Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
> > Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he
was
> > talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't
the
> > reference.
>
> Maybe you mean this one:
> http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2004/perl_0707.html
>
> However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
> links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl
books.
>
> - Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by "Philip M. Gollucci" <pg...@p6m7g8.com>.
Perrin Harkins wrote:
> Hmmm, not sure where you got that idea, Philip. The site has been
> around for many years. I don't even know how old it is because when I
> first heard of mod_perl (in 1998) it already existed. However, the nice
> design it has now (thanks to hard work by a few generous people) is
> fairly new.
Right the one Stas maintained. I was refering to the new design on perl.apache.org
--
END
------------------------------------------------------------
What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
Nothing is impossible.
Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) 301.254.5198
Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
http://www.liquidation.com
http://www.uksurplus.com
http://www.govliquidation.com
http://www.gowholesale.com
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Philip M. Gollucci wrote:
> The perl.apache.org site is also /relatively/ new... I think early 2004
> it saw creation?
Hmmm, not sure where you got that idea, Philip. The site has been
around for many years. I don't even know how old it is because when I
first heard of mod_perl (in 1998) it already existed. However, the nice
design it has now (thanks to hard work by a few generous people) is
fairly new.
- Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by "Philip M. Gollucci" <pg...@p6m7g8.com>.
Perrin Harkins wrote:
> However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
> links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl books.
The perl.apache.org site is also /relatively/ new... I think early 2004 it saw
creation?
News is getting out and it is the most up to date source of API documentation
for mod_perl. Maybe people are realizing it and deciding they don't need to buy
as many books?
--
END
------------------------------------------------------------
What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
Nothing is impossible.
Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) 301.254.5198
Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
http://www.liquidation.com
http://www.uksurplus.com
http://www.govliquidation.com
http://www.gowholesale.com
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
> Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he was
> talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't the
> reference.
Maybe you mean this one:
http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2004/perl_0707.html
However, there is no mention of a sales slump in that, and the graph he
links to there doesn't show any significant decline in sales of Perl books.
- Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Foo Ji-Haw <jh...@nexlabs.com>.
> That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for Perl6
> in any way.
I agree on your point on mod_perl development. I am glad that it has finally
moved out of 1.999 and into its own namespace this year. I'm still
experiencing some problems with Apache2::Cookies, but that's another story
altogether. Overall MP2 is great.
> Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
> O'Reilly's Perl books are up.
Ok, I did remember reading an interview with Tim O'Reilly about how he was
talking about lowered sales of Perl books. But I dug the web and I can't the
reference. So I guess I have to take that back for now.
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
> books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to look
> for solutions.
it's worth mentioning as well that "the big picture" is practically the
same for mod_perl 2.0 as it is for mod_perl 1.0, so any/all of the mp1
books out there are still pretty relevant and contain required reading
if you're going to do any mod_perl development.
comments like "wow! you can return DECLINED!" make it obvious that
these texts are being passed over because they're focused on mp1, which
fails to recognize that "the big picture" is essentially the same and
worth understanding.
--Geoff
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 14:27 -0500, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
> Isn't mod_perl 2 an Apache 2.0 Module, so that even if the book doesn't
> talk about
> MP2 directly, an understanding of how MP2 fits with Apache2 might be
> gleamed?
Sure, but I thought you were looking for information about Perl modules.
> Great way to get started, thanks. As far as mod_perl tutorials go, can
> I submit them
> here before I publish to get pointers, etc without causing unwanted
> traffic or noise?
Yes, other people have posted things on the list for feedback in the
past.
- Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Boysenberry Payne <bo...@humaniteque.com>.
On Oct 3, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> It's not clear if this book will be talking about mod_perl or not.
Isn't mod_perl 2 an Apache 2.0 Module, so that even if the book doesn't
talk about
MP2 directly, an understanding of how MP2 fits with Apache2 might be
gleamed?
That's how I got a better handle of MP1/Apache1.33 workings, by reading
"Writing
Apache Modules with C and Perl" by O'Reilly. You know, the nitty
gritty of Apache
handlers.
> Write an article or tutorial. See how it goes. Get them published
> somewhere. Then write a few more. Then talk to a book publisher.
Great way to get started, thanks. As far as mod_perl tutorials go, can
I submit them
here before I publish to get pointers, etc without causing unwanted
traffic or noise?
That will at least help me not to published dated advice...
> There are printable PDF links in the upper right corner of most pages
> on
> the mod_perl site. You can also download the docs from the Subversion
> repository and build the PDFs locally.
I will in fact create a local version of the online docs now, thanks.
No lame excuses about not having "off-line" resources...
;)
Thanks,
Boysenberry
boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 12:30 -0500, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
> On that note, I would love any help or feedback on where to get
> started on writing
> a good tech book for MP2.
Write an article or tutorial. See how it goes. Get them published
somewhere. Then write a few more. Then talk to a book publisher.
> On the apache list a person pointed me at this soon to be released Pro
> Apache 2.0 Module Development book:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594436/002-0673693-1147268?v=glance
It's not clear if this book will be talking about mod_perl or not.
> It's not that I don't want to check here to get up to date info. It's
> more that
> I can't always get online (I develop locally.)
You can keep local copies of perl.apache.org and CPAN. You obviously
have to be on-line to talk to the list though.
> Even a text version of what's on:
> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
> and
> http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/
>
> Would help out a lot...
There are printable PDF links in the upper right corner of most pages on
the mod_perl site. You can also download the docs from the Subversion
repository and build the PDFs locally.
- Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by "Philip M. Gollucci" <pg...@p6m7g8.com>.
Boysenberry Payne wrote:
> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
> and
> http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/
You could build the docs site locally and then take all the pdf files.. They make a book.
--
END
------------------------------------------------------------
What doesn't kill us can only make us stronger.
Nothing is impossible.
Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) 301.254.5198
Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/
Senior Developer / Liquidity Services, Inc.
http://www.liquidityservicesinc.com
http://www.liquidation.com
http://www.uksurplus.com
http://www.govliquidation.com
http://www.gowholesale.com
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Boysenberry Payne <bo...@humaniteque.com>.
On Oct 3, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work
> to write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months
> ago. If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for
> them. Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing
> them.
On that note, I would love any help or feedback on where to get started
on writing
a good tech book for MP2. I can't think of anything that would get me
more up to
speed on it's features. I am by no means an expert.
I keep several O' Reilly books on perl, mod_perl and apache but find
myself digging for
more up to date info constantly. Don't know what I'd do without this
mailing list.
On the apache list a person pointed me at this soon to be released Pro
Apache 2.0 Module Development book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594436/002-0673693
-1147268?v=glance
Another person on this list suggested writing a new book to me. I
think it
would be great, if nothing else to take most of what's in Practical
mod_perl
and just update the examples with either MP2 structures or more up to
date
CPAN modules would save people like me a bit of trouble. It seems to me
when I use examples out of Practical mod_perl a lot of the time I find
out
after I put my code together that there a new or better (i.e. more
efficient)
solution and that I'm using dated material.
It's not that I don't want to check here to get up to date info. It's
more that
I can't always get online (I develop locally.) Sometimes, it can take
days
to get a solution because of this.
> The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
> up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be.
> The books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to
> look for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change
> on CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
> modules with research of your own.
I imagine any book that is written would be dated as soon as it was
published
nowa days. That's something that can't be helped.
As far as trying to cover all the modules in CPAN, well that's beyond
mod_perl2
anyway. I'm thinking more along the lines of the "core" modules that
are
used in mod_perl2 and the most common supportive modules.
Even a text version of what's on:
http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html
and
http://httpd.apache.org/apreq/docs/libapreq2/
Would help out a lot...
Am I pipe dreaming?
Boysenberry
boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
On Oct 3, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
>> I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6
>> comes out.
>
> That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for
> Perl6 in any way.
>
>> Publishers (O' Reilly) are
>> complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be.
>
> Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
> O'Reilly's Perl books are up.
>
>> That probably caused
>> the print slump as well.
>
> There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work
> to write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months
> ago. If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for
> them. Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing
> them.
>
> The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
> up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be.
> The books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to
> look for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change
> on CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
> modules with research of your own.
>
> - Perrin
>
>
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Foo Ji-Haw wrote:
> I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6 comes out.
That's completely untrue. No mod_perl development is waiting for Perl6
in any way.
> Publishers (O' Reilly) are
> complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be.
Alison Randal recently mentioned in a use.perl.org post that sales of
O'Reilly's Perl books are up.
> That probably caused
> the print slump as well.
There is no "slump." It takes a long time (years) and a lot of work to
write a good technical book. mod_perl 2.0 came out a few months ago.
If you want mod_perl 2 books, ask your favorite publishers for them.
Don't expect any soon though, unless someone is already writing them.
The on-line documentation has always been the best place to look for
up-to-date API reference material, and I expect it always will be. The
books are more about getting the big picture and learning where to look
for solutions. No book will ever keep up with the rate of change on
CPAN, so it's a given that you have to supplement suggestions about
modules with research of your own.
- Perrin
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Foo Ji-Haw <jh...@nexlabs.com>.
I know what you mean.
I have this feeling that Perl is generally 'frozen' until Perl 6 comes out.
Otherwise things must 'move along' quietly. Publishers (O' Reilly) are
complaining that Perl is not a sellout it used to be. That probably caused
the print slump as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boysenberry Payne" <bo...@humaniteque.com>
To: "mod_perl" <mo...@perl.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
> I practically live there at times.
>
> What I'm looking for actually is something that will be up to date more
> when it comes to
> using perl modules with mod_perl. I've noticed a lot of time either me
> or someone else
> mentioning examples given from Practical mod_perl, etc. Then someone
> on the list
> will say the modules is old and there is a newer one that works better.
>
> I was hoping there was a book I could buy for when I'm not hooked up to
> the internet.
>
> Thanks,
> Boysenberry
>
> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
>
> On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
> >> Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
> >> could
> >> purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
> >> old
> >> O' Reilly books?
> >
> > http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Boysenberry
> >>
> >> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
> >
> >
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Boysenberry Payne <bo...@humaniteque.com>.
I practically live there at times.
What I'm looking for actually is something that will be up to date more
when it comes to
using perl modules with mod_perl. I've noticed a lot of time either me
or someone else
mentioning examples given from Practical mod_perl, etc. Then someone
on the list
will say the modules is old and there is a newer one that works better.
I was hoping there was a book I could buy for when I'm not hooked up to
the internet.
Thanks,
Boysenberry
boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Fred Moyer wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
>> Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
>> could
>> purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
>> old
>> O' Reilly books?
>
> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Boysenberry
>>
>> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com
>
>
Re: Looking for good MP2 reference material
Posted by Fred Moyer <fr...@redhotpenguin.com>.
On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:50 am, Boysenberry Payne wrote:
> Anyone know of some good apache2 mp2 related reading material that I
> could
> purchase for more up to date info than the stuff I'm getting from my
> old
> O' Reilly books?
http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/index.html is free.
>
> Thanks,
> Boysenberry
>
> boysenberrys.com | habitatlife.com | selfgnosis.com