[OT] RE: A new paradigm of Struts development

[Wiebe de Jong <wi...@shaw.ca>]

Ooohhh,

Let's start a rumor. Craig is going over to Microsoft... It must be true
'cause I heard it on the list.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Germuska [mailto:Joe@Germuska.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 3:41 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: A new paradigm of Struts development

>Sorry for going on so long.

Nonsense.  That's why we have *discussion* lists.

>I may have misunderstood, and I am at a disadvantage because I am
>still trying to get a good idea of what JSF is all about, but I
>thought that Craig saw any merger between Struts and JSF as a
>temporary thing which was fundamentally not a long run arrangement.

Hm.  Maybe; I don't recall that.  The nice thing about the Apache 
license is that the code will live as long as you want it to.  So the 
arrangement is as 'long-run' as the community interested in 
supporting it.  Even if Apache revoked Struts' charter and Craig went 
to go work for Microsoft, the code would still be there, under a 
license which empowers you to take it and do whatever you need to 
with it.

>I don't understand your idea of a "view controller", Joe.  The "view
>controller" is a controller which is not something different from the
>Struts "controller" is it?  The controller, from my perspective needs
>to be decoupled from the view.  A "view controller" is just another
>way of saying, if I understand, that the view and the controller will
>be coupled.

Only as much as the model and the controller are coupled right now. 
It's more of a logical partitioning of control responsibilities into 
"inbound" and "outbound".  Some things which need to happen before 
control is passed to the view are common based on the destination 
view, not the request path.  At my job, the ability to hook some kind 
of control logic to the view has proven a nice way to organize things 
so that page preparation and form-prefilling behavior is shared and 
separate from form/request processing behavior.  For a lot of things, 
the split isn't so straightforward, but we've come to like the basic 
model.

>Ultimately, of course, there has to be some interface between the view
>and the controller.  I would wish there were an interface that could
>adapt the Struts architecture with the JSF sort of view intricacies.
>However, I don't see that the event-based, page-based, JSF approach
>can do that.

And here's where I'm waiting to either have more time to really 
understand it -- I've read all the "intro to JSF" articles, but 
haven't spent time coding with it -- or for someone to make more 
specific arguments that say "I need to do this, and here's why JSF 
makes it hard or impossible."  Or even just "here's a way that I can 
do this, which I need to do, without all that JSF silliness -- isn't 
this good enough, and less complicated?"

Anyone...?


--
Joe Germuska            
Joe@Germuska.com  
http://blog.germuska.com    
"In fact, when I die, if I don't hear 'A Love Supreme,' I'll turn 
back; I'll know I'm in the wrong place."
    - Carlos Santana

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