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Posted to dev@cxf.apache.org by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> on 2011/02/03 02:27:38 UTC
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> Commercial CXF Offerings
>
> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>
> Commercial CXF Offerings
>
> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a description
> of your offerings and we can update the page. The products and services
> listed on this page are provided for information use only to our users. The
> CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the products or services on
> this page.
>
> FuseSource
>
> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise Developer
> and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix - including
> Training, Consulting & Mentoring. They also employ most of the core
> committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible answers to
> all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>
> MuleSoft
>
> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File and
> over 100+ additional transports.
>
> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>
> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based on
> CXF.
>
> Talend
>
> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF including
> a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has a package of
> examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features including JAX-RS
> use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend also employs the
> leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of CXF including
> JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be
> resolved quickly and accurately.
>
> Change Notification Preferences
> View Online | Add Comment
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
If FUSE would change 'most' to 'many', and Talend would at least trade
in 'leading' on the same thing ...
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1... lets remove the "leading committers" comments... that really sucks and is elitist at best :-(
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:27 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>
>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>
>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>
>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a description
>>> of your offerings and we can update the page. The products and services
>>> listed on this page are provided for information use only to our users. The
>>> CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the products or services on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> FuseSource
>>>
>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise Developer
>>> and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix - including
>>> Training, Consulting & Mentoring. They also employ most of the core
>>> committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible answers to
>>> all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>
>>> MuleSoft
>>>
>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File and
>>> over 100+ additional transports.
>>>
>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>
>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based on
>>> CXF.
>>>
>>> Talend
>>>
>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF including
>>> a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has a package of
>>> examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features including JAX-RS
>>> use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend also employs the
>>> leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of CXF including
>>> JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be
>>> resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>
>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>> View Online | Add Comment
>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
+1... lets remove the "leading committers" comments... that really sucks and is elitist at best :-(
Jeff
On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:27 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>
>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>
>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>
>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a description
>> of your offerings and we can update the page. The products and services
>> listed on this page are provided for information use only to our users. The
>> CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the products or services on
>> this page.
>>
>> FuseSource
>>
>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise Developer
>> and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix - including
>> Training, Consulting & Mentoring. They also employ most of the core
>> committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible answers to
>> all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>
>> MuleSoft
>>
>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File and
>> over 100+ additional transports.
>>
>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>
>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based on
>> CXF.
>>
>> Talend
>>
>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF including
>> a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has a package of
>> examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features including JAX-RS
>> use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend also employs the
>> leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of CXF including
>> JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be
>> resolved quickly and accurately.
>>
>> Change Notification Preferences
>> View Online | Add Comment
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
ORLY? For the record:
http://www.brewdog.com/sink_the_bismark
41% baby!!!
Jeff
On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote:
> I agree with Jeff. By stating 'a beer' and not stating the alcohol content, you knew the readers will make wrong assumptions.
> This is strikingly similar to the marketing practices on the apache site.
>
> (For the record, the alcohol content was much lower than some wines, not mentioning vodka.)
>
> ;)
>
> Hadrian
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Jeff Genender wrote:
>
>> Well said, Dan.
>>
>> And BTW... did you tell anyone the alcohol content of that beer? ;-) Low blow man! ;-)
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>
>>> Umm.... was that last question rhetorical? Do you really want me to answer
>>> that? Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single
>>> bottle of beer.......
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
>>>> sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>
>>> Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider. Apache projects are
>>> supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved. One PMC member
>>> does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc.... Yes, in a lot
>>> of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it
>>> should be a level playing field.
>>>
>>> The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization
>>> and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.
>>> There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start
>>> looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization. The
>>> trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected
>>> and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused
>>> or miss used.
>>>
>>> Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that
>>> the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and
>>> have no appearance of favortism and such. If the landing zones at Fuse and
>>> Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's
>>> great. Please do so. On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be
>>> tollerated.
>>>
>>> I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me
>>> about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements,
>>> etc... Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more
>>> about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and
>>> educational.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
>>>>> they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose
>>>>> support, because it results in more hired people working on the
>>>>> projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
>>>>> instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
>>>>> everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it
>>>>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
>>>>>> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
>>>>>> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
>>>>>> offerings and products. The guideline I got was:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>> specific page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
>>>>>>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
>>>>>>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC
>>>>>>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page. The
>>>>>>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
>>>>>>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
>>>>>>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also
>>>>>>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you get
>>>>>>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
>>>>>>>> fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
>>>>>>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well
>>>>>>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
>>>>>>>> SOA based on CXF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
>>>>>>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
>>>>>>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
>>>>>>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
>>>>>>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
>>>>>>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
>>>>>>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
>>>>>>>> quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Kulp
>>> dkulp@apache.org
>>> http://dankulp.com/blog
>>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
I agree with Jeff. By stating 'a beer' and not stating the alcohol content, you knew the readers will make wrong assumptions.
This is strikingly similar to the marketing practices on the apache site.
(For the record, the alcohol content was much lower than some wines, not mentioning vodka.)
;)
Hadrian
On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Jeff Genender wrote:
> Well said, Dan.
>
> And BTW... did you tell anyone the alcohol content of that beer? ;-) Low blow man! ;-)
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>
>> Umm.... was that last question rhetorical? Do you really want me to answer
>> that? Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single
>> bottle of beer.......
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
>>> sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>
>> Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider. Apache projects are
>> supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved. One PMC member
>> does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc.... Yes, in a lot
>> of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it
>> should be a level playing field.
>>
>> The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization
>> and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.
>> There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start
>> looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization. The
>> trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected
>> and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused
>> or miss used.
>>
>> Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that
>> the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and
>> have no appearance of favortism and such. If the landing zones at Fuse and
>> Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's
>> great. Please do so. On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be
>> tollerated.
>>
>> I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me
>> about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements,
>> etc... Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more
>> about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and
>> educational.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
>>>> they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose
>>>> support, because it results in more hired people working on the
>>>> projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
>>>> instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
>>>> everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>>>
>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>> between teams.
>>>>
>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it
>>>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
>>>>> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
>>>>> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
>>>>> offerings and products. The guideline I got was:
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>> links as well).
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>> specific page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
>>>>>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
>>>>>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC
>>>>>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page. The
>>>>>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
>>>>>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
>>>>>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also
>>>>>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you get
>>>>>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
>>>>>>> fixed fast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
>>>>>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well
>>>>>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
>>>>>>> SOA based on CXF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
>>>>>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
>>>>>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
>>>>>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
>>>>>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
>>>>>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
>>>>>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
>>>>>>> quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Kulp
>> dkulp@apache.org
>> http://dankulp.com/blog
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Well said, Dan.
And BTW... did you tell anyone the alcohol content of that beer? ;-) Low blow man! ;-)
Jeff
On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>
> Umm.... was that last question rhetorical? Do you really want me to answer
> that? Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single
> bottle of beer.......
>
> ;-)
>
>
>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
>> sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>
> Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider. Apache projects are
> supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved. One PMC member
> does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc.... Yes, in a lot
> of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it
> should be a level playing field.
>
> The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization
> and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.
> There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start
> looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization. The
> trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected
> and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused
> or miss used.
>
> Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that
> the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and
> have no appearance of favortism and such. If the landing zones at Fuse and
> Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's
> great. Please do so. On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be
> tollerated.
>
> I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me
> about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements,
> etc... Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more
> about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and
> educational.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
>>> they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose
>>> support, because it results in more hired people working on the
>>> projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
>>> instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
>>> everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>>
>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>> between teams.
>>>
>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it
>>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
>>>> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
>>>> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
>>>> offerings and products. The guideline I got was:
>>>>
>>>> --------------------
>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>> links as well).
>>>> --------------------
>>>>
>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>> specific page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
>>>>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
>>>>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC
>>>>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page. The
>>>>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
>>>>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
>>>>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also
>>>>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you get
>>>>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
>>>>>> fixed fast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
>>>>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well
>>>>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
>>>>>> SOA based on CXF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
>>>>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
>>>>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
>>>>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
>>>>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
>>>>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
>>>>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
>>>>>> quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>
> --
> Daniel Kulp
> dkulp@apache.org
> http://dankulp.com/blog
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
Umm.... was that last question rhetorical? Do you really want me to answer
that? Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single
bottle of beer.......
;-)
> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
> sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider. Apache projects are
supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved. One PMC member
does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc.... Yes, in a lot
of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it
should be a level playing field.
The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization
and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.
There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start
looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization. The
trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected
and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused
or miss used.
Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that
the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and
have no appearance of favortism and such. If the landing zones at Fuse and
Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's
great. Please do so. On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be
tollerated.
I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me
about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements,
etc... Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more
about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and
educational.
Dan
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> > Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
> > companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
> > they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose
> > support, because it results in more hired people working on the
> > projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
> > instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
> > everything does need to be strictly factual.
> >
> > Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
> > between teams.
> >
> > In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
> > claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it
> > doesn't need to be taken seriously.
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> >> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
> >>
> >> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
> >>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
> >>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
> >>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
> >> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
> >> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
> >> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
> >> offerings and products. The guideline I got was:
> >>
> >> --------------------
> >> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
> >> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
> >> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
> >> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
> >> links as well).
> >> --------------------
> >>
> >> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
> >> specific page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
> >>
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
> >>>>
> >>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
> >>>>
> >>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
> >>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
> >>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
> >>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC
> >>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page. The
> >>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
> >>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
> >>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
> >>>>
> >>>> FuseSource
> >>>>
> >>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
> >>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
> >>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also
> >>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you get
> >>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
> >>>> fixed fast.
> >>>>
> >>>> MuleSoft
> >>>>
> >>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
> >>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
> >>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well
> >>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
> >>>>
> >>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
> >>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
> >>>> SOA based on CXF.
> >>>>
> >>>> Talend
> >>>>
> >>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
> >>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
> >>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
> >>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
> >>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
> >>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
> >>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
> >>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
> >>>> quickly and accurately.
> >>>>
> >>>> Change Notification Preferences
> >>>> View Online | Add Comment
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org
http://dankulp.com/blog
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Eric Johnson <em...@fusesource.com>.
+1 Dan thanks for doing this.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 03 February 2011 10:53:30 am Christian Schneider wrote:
>> +1 for working out a policy for commercial marketing in CXF resources
>> (wiki, mailing list, subversion, ..).
>
>
> I've updated the page:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CXF/Commercial+CXF+Offerings
>
> (will sync live in a bit)
>
> To remove the offending statements as well as added a section to try and
> clarify the policy for the page. Updates and such are more than welcome.
> :-)
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>>
>> My proposal is that we create a policy in a wiki page, let it mature a
>> bit and then call a vote on it.
>> So we have some guideline for people who create marketing statements in
>> the wiki or elsewhere in the project and also for people
>> who remove or edit these statements. Without a policy that is backed by
>> a vote everyone can claim he is right and the others are wrong.
>> Of course we should also refer to any rules that the Apache organization
>> has for such statements that apply to all projects.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> Am 03.02.2011 16:14, schrieb Eric Johnson:
>> > Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>> > commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>> > where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>> > offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>> > is so they can avoid crossing it.
>
> --
> Daniel Kulp
> dkulp@apache.org
> http://dankulp.com/blog
>
--
Principle Technical Writer
Phone (781) 280-4174
Skype finnmccumial
E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
In my opinion, the first amendment is relatively relevant to the
mailing list. A polite, infrequent, announcement of a commercial
offering of potential interest to the users is just find by me,
personally, and I know of no ASF policy to the contrary. It is of
course going to be a matter of gray to decide if someone pushes the
limits of 'polite' and 'infrequent'.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Christian Schneider
<ch...@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> Sounds good for me.
>
> What I would have imagined for a complete policy is how to handle other
> pages and e.g. the mailing list. I think we could add to the policies that
> promotion of products on other
> wiki pages ist not allowed. Perhaps on the articles page links to articles
> about cxf + products are also ok.
>
> What do we expect on the mailing list? Are product announcements ok or
> forbidden?
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 03.02.2011 18:45, schrieb Daniel Kulp:
>>
>> On Thursday 03 February 2011 10:53:30 am Christian Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 for working out a policy for commercial marketing in CXF resources
>>> (wiki, mailing list, subversion, ..).
>>
>> I've updated the page:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CXF/Commercial+CXF+Offerings
>>
>> (will sync live in a bit)
>>
>> To remove the offending statements as well as added a section to try and
>> clarify the policy for the page. Updates and such are more than
>> welcome.
>> :-)
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>> My proposal is that we create a policy in a wiki page, let it mature a
>>> bit and then call a vote on it.
>>> So we have some guideline for people who create marketing statements in
>>> the wiki or elsewhere in the project and also for people
>>> who remove or edit these statements. Without a policy that is backed by
>>> a vote everyone can claim he is right and the others are wrong.
>>> Of course we should also refer to any rules that the Apache organization
>>> has for such statements that apply to all projects.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> Am 03.02.2011 16:14, schrieb Eric Johnson:
>>>>
>>>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>>>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>>>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>>>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>>>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>
> --
> ----
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Sounds good for me.
What I would have imagined for a complete policy is how to handle other
pages and e.g. the mailing list. I think we could add to the policies
that promotion of products on other
wiki pages ist not allowed. Perhaps on the articles page links to
articles about cxf + products are also ok.
What do we expect on the mailing list? Are product announcements ok or
forbidden?
Christian
Am 03.02.2011 18:45, schrieb Daniel Kulp:
> On Thursday 03 February 2011 10:53:30 am Christian Schneider wrote:
>> +1 for working out a policy for commercial marketing in CXF resources
>> (wiki, mailing list, subversion, ..).
>
> I've updated the page:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CXF/Commercial+CXF+Offerings
>
> (will sync live in a bit)
>
> To remove the offending statements as well as added a section to try and
> clarify the policy for the page. Updates and such are more than welcome.
> :-)
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>> My proposal is that we create a policy in a wiki page, let it mature a
>> bit and then call a vote on it.
>> So we have some guideline for people who create marketing statements in
>> the wiki or elsewhere in the project and also for people
>> who remove or edit these statements. Without a policy that is backed by
>> a vote everyone can claim he is right and the others are wrong.
>> Of course we should also refer to any rules that the Apache organization
>> has for such statements that apply to all projects.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> Am 03.02.2011 16:14, schrieb Eric Johnson:
>>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
On Thursday 03 February 2011 10:53:30 am Christian Schneider wrote:
> +1 for working out a policy for commercial marketing in CXF resources
> (wiki, mailing list, subversion, ..).
I've updated the page:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CXF/Commercial+CXF+Offerings
(will sync live in a bit)
To remove the offending statements as well as added a section to try and
clarify the policy for the page. Updates and such are more than welcome.
:-)
Dan
>
> My proposal is that we create a policy in a wiki page, let it mature a
> bit and then call a vote on it.
> So we have some guideline for people who create marketing statements in
> the wiki or elsewhere in the project and also for people
> who remove or edit these statements. Without a policy that is backed by
> a vote everyone can claim he is right and the others are wrong.
> Of course we should also refer to any rules that the Apache organization
> has for such statements that apply to all projects.
>
> Christian
>
> Am 03.02.2011 16:14, schrieb Eric Johnson:
> > Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
> > commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
> > where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
> > offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
> > is so they can avoid crossing it.
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org
http://dankulp.com/blog
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
+1 for working out a policy for commercial marketing in CXF resources
(wiki, mailing list, subversion, ..).
My proposal is that we create a policy in a wiki page, let it mature a
bit and then call a vote on it.
So we have some guideline for people who create marketing statements in
the wiki or elsewhere in the project and also for people
who remove or edit these statements. Without a policy that is backed by
a vote everyone can claim he is right and the others are wrong.
Of course we should also refer to any rules that the Apache organization
has for such statements that apply to all projects.
Christian
Am 03.02.2011 16:14, schrieb Eric Johnson:
> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
> is so they can avoid crossing it.
--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
There, even non committers get it. Spot on. Thanks Craig for speaking up!
Hadrian
On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:
> Speaking as a member of the community (non-commiter outside of a few patches) I don't have a problem with the claims which the CXF supporting companies make on their own site. They are paying people to forward the development of CXF, they should get to stick out their chest and let it be known. However, on the Apache side of things I think its enough to just list a person's company next to their name/link in the committers page. I don't think we have to have blurbs about company's products.
>
> As a community member when a company states they have "the most committers" on a project, what I interpret from that is "our customer's fixes and needs get priority over that of the proletariat". I'm sorry if I offend any of the committers by that, it's just how I think. The fact of the matter is the "ninja committers" are working on behalf on the product their company is creating. Of course the good side of this is that CXF matures, even if its direction is determined a less "open" nature.
>
> Craig.
>
> On 2011-02-03, at 9:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>
>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>> consistently.
>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>> committers alone.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>
>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>>
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Principle Technical Writer
>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>> Skype finnmccumial
>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
+1 and well said.
Jeff
On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:38 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:
> Speaking as a member of the community (non-commiter outside of a few patches) I don't have a problem with the claims which the CXF supporting companies make on their own site. They are paying people to forward the development of CXF, they should get to stick out their chest and let it be known. However, on the Apache side of things I think its enough to just list a person's company next to their name/link in the committers page. I don't think we have to have blurbs about company's products.
>
> As a community member when a company states they have "the most committers" on a project, what I interpret from that is "our customer's fixes and needs get priority over that of the proletariat". I'm sorry if I offend any of the committers by that, it's just how I think. The fact of the matter is the "ninja committers" are working on behalf on the product their company is creating. Of course the good side of this is that CXF matures, even if its direction is determined a less "open" nature.
>
> Craig.
>
> On 2011-02-03, at 9:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>
>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>> consistently.
>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>> committers alone.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>
>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>>
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Principle Technical Writer
>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>> Skype finnmccumial
>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
Speaking as a member of the community (non-commiter outside of a few patches) I don't have a problem with the claims which the CXF supporting companies make on their own site. They are paying people to forward the development of CXF, they should get to stick out their chest and let it be known. However, on the Apache side of things I think its enough to just list a person's company next to their name/link in the committers page. I don't think we have to have blurbs about company's products.
As a community member when a company states they have "the most committers" on a project, what I interpret from that is "our customer's fixes and needs get priority over that of the proletariat". I'm sorry if I offend any of the committers by that, it's just how I think. The fact of the matter is the "ninja committers" are working on behalf on the product their company is creating. Of course the good side of this is that CXF matures, even if its direction is determined a less "open" nature.
Craig.
On 2011-02-03, at 9:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
> consistently.
> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>> committers alone.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>
>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>
>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>
>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>> between teams.
>>>>
>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>> with
>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>> "concern"
>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>> as
>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>> The
>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>> links as well).
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>> specific
>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Glen Mazza
>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Principle Technical Writer
> Phone (781) 280-4174
> Skype finnmccumial
> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 18:18, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks like more clarification is in order. I am not a CXF committer.
> My role in the Apache Camel project has no relevance here. Here I
> speak as an Apache member. One of the duties of Apache members is
> to provide oversight to other projects which, experience taught us,
> is a useful and necessary thing.
>
> The fact that you have the right to express your opinion and position
> is undeniable. Hey, as a cxf-pmc member you also get a binding vote
> in the project. You are also expected to be familiar with the
> 'apache way' and policies.
>
> What I believe Dan clarified in a previous mail (I hoped) is that
> there are some aspects on which your statement that "the community has
> not decided on its position and that is the only position that ultimately matters"
> is misguided. Things related to branding, trademarks and how they
> are used are not up to the PMC and these topics are even more sensitive
> lately for reasons Dan alluded to.
>
> So what you're saying about policing is that: "it is one of the
> responsibilities of being a committer". I totally agree with that,
> yet in this particular instance Dan is the one fulfilling the
> committer responsibility of reverting your change. Using your
> reasoning, on would have expected you to fix a change of a
> contributor who's expected to know less about the 'apache way'
> then you, not to create the problem in the first place.
>
> It's not about consensus, it's about knowing what's right and wrong.
> Non committers on the list showed that it's not hard to make the
> distinction. Now, I know you personally, I've worked with you for
> a number of years, I respect your talents, I know you're a smart and
> honest guy. That's what makes this quite sad. I find it hard to
> believe that your actions were not influenced by external factors.
> I hope I am wrong.
>
> If you look at the history of this event, what happened is that you
> made changes to the site (not only CXF). On the Camel site I decided
> to write you in private and settle it that way. Dan on the other hand
> decided to just update the page. Moments later Benson saw the change
> and tactfully requested this to stop and then others pitched in.
> There is no need to play games and hide behind lack of community
> consensus, or let's write yet another policy. The guidelines are clear.
> When in doubt ask your PMC chair.
Can we just keep things to straight facts ? Looking at the recent
commit logs, I can't see Eric having done any modification to the web
site on that area.
The only thing I see is Dan moved a part of the "Support" web page to
the "Commercial CXF offerings" one. AFAIK, Eric is not involved in
that.
>
> Things happen. We can learn from them and move on.
>
> Cheers,
> Hadrian
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hadrian,
>> We discussed a specific instance in private. I was happy to accept
>> your guidelines given your position as PMC Chair of Apache Camel and
>> will abide by them. As the existence of this thread evidences, the
>> boundaries of what is acceptable for companies to place on a project
>> site is not clear for the CXF community and they are seeking to form a
>> clear position. This is particularly important now that multiple
>> companies with marketing departments are offering commercial products
>> based on CXF.
>> While you may disagree with my position about the appropriateness of
>> the content allowed to be placed on Apache projects from commercial
>> entities, my position is still a valid one that deserves to be aired.
>> I understand your position and think it is also a valid position.
>> However, the community has not decided on its position and that is the
>> only position that ultimately matters.
>> As for having to police the wiki, it is not the reason for becoming a
>> commiter. However, it is one of the responsibilities of being a
>> commiter. If there was an agreed upon consensus for what is
>> appropriate then self-policing is possible. However, without that
>> consensus everyone is right.
>> Eric
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Eric, I am still trying to decide if you are serious or just fooling around.
>>> I thought we clarified this in private. Public is fine too. Comments inline.
>>>
>>> If I come across as upset, I am!
>>>
>>> Hadrian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>>>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>>>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
>>> Good so far.
>>>
>>>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>>>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>>>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
>>> Wrong. On your company site you can write what you want, on the ASF site, not so. Regardless of how you mark it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>>>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>>>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>>>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>>>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>>>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>>>> consistently.
>>> But it is a big deal. Write whatever you want on the fusesource site and link back to the apache project if you want to.
>>> Adding a link back from the apache site to your site and mention that you offer support or whatever other service, that's fine.
>>> You have the "Commercial CXF Offerings" page for that. Ads, marketing statements are not fine.
>>> You can also add links back to your blog, fine too.
>>>
>>> I agree that it doesn't make company offering any better or any worse, but that has nothing to do with the apache project, make your statements on your site, but not on the apache site just because it has more traffic, or whatever the reason.
>>> There are companies who offer free licenses to commercial products for apache committers and what they appreciate in return (don't make it a condition) is a link back on a Thanks page. Just because one is entrusted to edit the wiki doesn't mean one can abuse.
>>>
>>> Policing statements? Is that the reason you wanted to become a proud apache committer, to police the wiki?
>>> We expect self policing. When things are not clear, we clarify them.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>>>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>>>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>>>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>>>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>>> I think that's pretty clear already.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>>>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>>>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>>>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>>>> committers alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Glen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Principle Technical Writer
>>>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>>>> Skype finnmccumial
>>>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>>>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Principle Technical Writer
>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>> Skype finnmccumial
>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
Looks like more clarification is in order. I am not a CXF committer.
My role in the Apache Camel project has no relevance here. Here I
speak as an Apache member. One of the duties of Apache members is
to provide oversight to other projects which, experience taught us,
is a useful and necessary thing.
The fact that you have the right to express your opinion and position
is undeniable. Hey, as a cxf-pmc member you also get a binding vote
in the project. You are also expected to be familiar with the
'apache way' and policies.
What I believe Dan clarified in a previous mail (I hoped) is that
there are some aspects on which your statement that "the community has
not decided on its position and that is the only position that ultimately matters"
is misguided. Things related to branding, trademarks and how they
are used are not up to the PMC and these topics are even more sensitive
lately for reasons Dan alluded to.
So what you're saying about policing is that: "it is one of the
responsibilities of being a committer". I totally agree with that,
yet in this particular instance Dan is the one fulfilling the
committer responsibility of reverting your change. Using your
reasoning, on would have expected you to fix a change of a
contributor who's expected to know less about the 'apache way'
then you, not to create the problem in the first place.
It's not about consensus, it's about knowing what's right and wrong.
Non committers on the list showed that it's not hard to make the
distinction. Now, I know you personally, I've worked with you for
a number of years, I respect your talents, I know you're a smart and
honest guy. That's what makes this quite sad. I find it hard to
believe that your actions were not influenced by external factors.
I hope I am wrong.
If you look at the history of this event, what happened is that you
made changes to the site (not only CXF). On the Camel site I decided
to write you in private and settle it that way. Dan on the other hand
decided to just update the page. Moments later Benson saw the change
and tactfully requested this to stop and then others pitched in.
There is no need to play games and hide behind lack of community
consensus, or let's write yet another policy. The guidelines are clear.
When in doubt ask your PMC chair.
Things happen. We can learn from them and move on.
Cheers,
Hadrian
On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
> Hadrian,
> We discussed a specific instance in private. I was happy to accept
> your guidelines given your position as PMC Chair of Apache Camel and
> will abide by them. As the existence of this thread evidences, the
> boundaries of what is acceptable for companies to place on a project
> site is not clear for the CXF community and they are seeking to form a
> clear position. This is particularly important now that multiple
> companies with marketing departments are offering commercial products
> based on CXF.
> While you may disagree with my position about the appropriateness of
> the content allowed to be placed on Apache projects from commercial
> entities, my position is still a valid one that deserves to be aired.
> I understand your position and think it is also a valid position.
> However, the community has not decided on its position and that is the
> only position that ultimately matters.
> As for having to police the wiki, it is not the reason for becoming a
> commiter. However, it is one of the responsibilities of being a
> commiter. If there was an agreed upon consensus for what is
> appropriate then self-policing is possible. However, without that
> consensus everyone is right.
> Eric
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Eric, I am still trying to decide if you are serious or just fooling around.
>> I thought we clarified this in private. Public is fine too. Comments inline.
>>
>> If I come across as upset, I am!
>>
>> Hadrian
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
>> Good so far.
>>
>>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
>> Wrong. On your company site you can write what you want, on the ASF site, not so. Regardless of how you mark it.
>>
>>
>>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>>> consistently.
>> But it is a big deal. Write whatever you want on the fusesource site and link back to the apache project if you want to.
>> Adding a link back from the apache site to your site and mention that you offer support or whatever other service, that's fine.
>> You have the "Commercial CXF Offerings" page for that. Ads, marketing statements are not fine.
>> You can also add links back to your blog, fine too.
>>
>> I agree that it doesn't make company offering any better or any worse, but that has nothing to do with the apache project, make your statements on your site, but not on the apache site just because it has more traffic, or whatever the reason.
>> There are companies who offer free licenses to commercial products for apache committers and what they appreciate in return (don't make it a condition) is a link back on a Thanks page. Just because one is entrusted to edit the wiki doesn't mean one can abuse.
>>
>> Policing statements? Is that the reason you wanted to become a proud apache committer, to police the wiki?
>> We expect self policing. When things are not clear, we clarify them.
>>
>>
>>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>> I think that's pretty clear already.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>>> committers alone.
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Principle Technical Writer
>>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>>> Skype finnmccumial
>>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Principle Technical Writer
> Phone (781) 280-4174
> Skype finnmccumial
> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Eric Johnson <em...@fusesource.com>.
Hadrian,
We discussed a specific instance in private. I was happy to accept
your guidelines given your position as PMC Chair of Apache Camel and
will abide by them. As the existence of this thread evidences, the
boundaries of what is acceptable for companies to place on a project
site is not clear for the CXF community and they are seeking to form a
clear position. This is particularly important now that multiple
companies with marketing departments are offering commercial products
based on CXF.
While you may disagree with my position about the appropriateness of
the content allowed to be placed on Apache projects from commercial
entities, my position is still a valid one that deserves to be aired.
I understand your position and think it is also a valid position.
However, the community has not decided on its position and that is the
only position that ultimately matters.
As for having to police the wiki, it is not the reason for becoming a
commiter. However, it is one of the responsibilities of being a
commiter. If there was an agreed upon consensus for what is
appropriate then self-policing is possible. However, without that
consensus everyone is right.
Eric
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eric, I am still trying to decide if you are serious or just fooling around.
> I thought we clarified this in private. Public is fine too. Comments inline.
>
> If I come across as upset, I am!
>
> Hadrian
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
>
>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
> Good so far.
>
>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
> Wrong. On your company site you can write what you want, on the ASF site, not so. Regardless of how you mark it.
>
>
>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>> consistently.
> But it is a big deal. Write whatever you want on the fusesource site and link back to the apache project if you want to.
> Adding a link back from the apache site to your site and mention that you offer support or whatever other service, that's fine.
> You have the "Commercial CXF Offerings" page for that. Ads, marketing statements are not fine.
> You can also add links back to your blog, fine too.
>
> I agree that it doesn't make company offering any better or any worse, but that has nothing to do with the apache project, make your statements on your site, but not on the apache site just because it has more traffic, or whatever the reason.
> There are companies who offer free licenses to commercial products for apache committers and what they appreciate in return (don't make it a condition) is a link back on a Thanks page. Just because one is entrusted to edit the wiki doesn't mean one can abuse.
>
> Policing statements? Is that the reason you wanted to become a proud apache committer, to police the wiki?
> We expect self policing. When things are not clear, we clarify them.
>
>
>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
> I think that's pretty clear already.
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>> committers alone.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>
>>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>>
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Principle Technical Writer
>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>> Skype finnmccumial
>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
>
>
--
Principle Technical Writer
Phone (781) 280-4174
Skype finnmccumial
E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.
Eric, I am still trying to decide if you are serious or just fooling around.
I thought we clarified this in private. Public is fine too. Comments inline.
If I come across as upset, I am!
Hadrian
On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
Good so far.
> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
Wrong. On your company site you can write what you want, on the ASF site, not so. Regardless of how you mark it.
> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
> consistently.
But it is a big deal. Write whatever you want on the fusesource site and link back to the apache project if you want to.
Adding a link back from the apache site to your site and mention that you offer support or whatever other service, that's fine.
You have the "Commercial CXF Offerings" page for that. Ads, marketing statements are not fine.
You can also add links back to your blog, fine too.
I agree that it doesn't make company offering any better or any worse, but that has nothing to do with the apache project, make your statements on your site, but not on the apache site just because it has more traffic, or whatever the reason.
There are companies who offer free licenses to commercial products for apache committers and what they appreciate in return (don't make it a condition) is a link back on a Thanks page. Just because one is entrusted to edit the wiki doesn't mean one can abuse.
Policing statements? Is that the reason you wanted to become a proud apache committer, to police the wiki?
We expect self policing. When things are not clear, we clarify them.
> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
> is so they can avoid crossing it.
I think that's pretty clear already.
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>> committers alone.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>
>>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>>
>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>
>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>> between teams.
>>>>
>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>>> with
>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>> "concern"
>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>>> as
>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>> The
>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>>> links as well).
>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>>> specific
>>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Glen Mazza
>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Principle Technical Writer
> Phone (781) 280-4174
> Skype finnmccumial
> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Eric Johnson <em...@fusesource.com>.
I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
as it is clearly marked as commercial.
As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
consistently.
Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
is so they can avoid crossing it.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
> support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
> It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
> committers alone.
>
> Glen
>
>
> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>
>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>
>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective
>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>
>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they
>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support,
>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the
>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>
>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>> between teams.
>>>
>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting
>>>> with
>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>> "concern"
>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used
>>>> as
>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>> The
>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>
>>>> --------------------
>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>> links as well).
>>>> --------------------
>>>>
>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>> specific
>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>> build
>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and
>>>>>> integration
>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS,
>>>>>> File
>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any
>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Glen Mazza
> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>
>
>
--
Principle Technical Writer
Phone (781) 280-4174
Skype finnmccumial
E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Lets make something clear here so we can delineate the difference between the contributions folks make. If someone is truly inactive and not making contributions of value, then we can request emeritus. I think our fearless leader Dan has done an outstanding job of keeping on that issue. Contributions come from code, help, and project oversight. To make a distinction between which one has more value is in the eye of the beholder and should not be argued. We can argue the the merits of my oversight and the quality of your code contributions all day long... but throwing stones at glass houses will not do you any good since nasty skeletons can be pulled from that vault. Lets not go there.
As for contributions from a commercial side... some folks do it via committing code, and some do it from getting in the trenches with clients and making our stacks work in the wild. I have seen first hand top-notch consultants who have more knowledge about how things work with our stacks in the real world than many "active" committers do alone. So you tell me who is "the best"?
Our sites are for leveling the field for contributors, no matter where they may fall. Link to your company sites all you want and hawk your wares. But I would keep it honest and open or you will grab the ire of this PMC, pr@/trademark@ and the board. How "truthy" you make it will bring you the attention you need.
Jeff
On Feb 2, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support. It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive committers alone.
>
> Glen
>
>
> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>>
>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>
>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support, because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>>
>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife between teams.
>>>
>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>
>>>> --------------------
>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>> links as well).
>>>> --------------------
>>>>
>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
>>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most of
>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Glen Mazza
> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>.
OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
support site. Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and
I have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial
support. It's good for the community. CXF cannot survive on arrogant
inactive committers alone.
Glen
On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>
> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>
>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support, because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>
>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife between teams.
>>
>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
>>> guideline I got was:
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>> links as well).
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>
>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>
>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>
>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>
>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most of
>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>
>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>
>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>
>>>>> Talend
>>>>>
>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>
>> --
>> Glen Mazza
>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>
>>
--
Glen Mazza
Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Johan Edstrom <jo...@acj-consulting.com>.
Well, you can't get pizza that is decent in the US anyways, :P
On Feb 2, 2011, at 8:28 PM, Jeff Genender wrote:
> -1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
>
> Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>
>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support, because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>
>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife between teams.
>>
>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
>>> guideline I got was:
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>> links as well).
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
>>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>
>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>
>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>
>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>
>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>
>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
>>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most of
>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>
>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>
>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>
>>>>> Talend
>>>>>
>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>
>>
>> --
>> Glen Mazza
>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>
>>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
-1... what is reputable? Who decides who is "reputable"? Am I reputable?
Apache is not about tooting your own horn. Go back to your respective company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites. Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
Jeff
On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose support, because it results in more hired people working on the projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does need to be strictly factual.
>
> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife between teams.
>
> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>
> Glen
>
>
> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>>
>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
>> guideline I got was:
>>
>> --------------------
>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>> links as well).
>> --------------------
>>
>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
>> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>
>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>
>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>
>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>
>>>> FuseSource
>>>>
>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
>>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most of
>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>
>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>
>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>
>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>
>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
>>>> on CXF.
>>>>
>>>> Talend
>>>>
>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>
>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>
>
> --
> Glen Mazza
> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>
>
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>.
Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
they contradict each other or embellish a bit. We want users to choose
support, because it results in more hired people working on the
projects. Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
everything does need to be strictly factual.
Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
between teams.
In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!" That's just advertising, it
doesn't need to be taken seriously.
Glen
On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
>
> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
> guideline I got was:
>
> --------------------
> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
> they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
> links as well).
> --------------------
>
> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
> page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>
>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>
>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>
>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
>>> products or services on this page.
>>>
>>> FuseSource
>>>
>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
>>> - including Training, Consulting& Mentoring. They also employ most of
>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>
>>> MuleSoft
>>>
>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>
>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>
>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
>>> along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
>>> on CXF.
>>>
>>> Talend
>>>
>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>
>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>> View Online | Add Comment
--
Glen Mazza
Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
Someone is paying attention... cool. :-)
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit. I've been chatting with
various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one "concern"
that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being used as
marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products. The
guideline I got was:
--------------------
PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
they want. But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
(i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
links as well).
--------------------
Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a specific
page. Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
Dan
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Commercial CXF Offerings
> >
> > Page added by Daniel Kulp
> >
> > Commercial CXF Offerings
> >
> > Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have build
> > products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to providing
> > descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely encouraged to
> > update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with a
> > description of your offerings and we can update the page. The products
> > and services listed on this page are provided for information use only
> > to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any of the
> > products or services on this page.
> >
> > FuseSource
> >
> > FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
> > Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and ServiceMix
> > - including Training, Consulting & Mentoring. They also employ most of
> > the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the best possible
> > answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
> >
> > MuleSoft
> >
> > MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule enterprise
> > subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB and integration
> > platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as REST, JMS, File
> > and over 100+ additional transports.
> >
> > Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
> >
> > Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for CXF,
> > along with training and support for web services security and SOA based
> > on CXF.
> >
> > Talend
> >
> > Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF and
> > their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of CXF
> > including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend also has
> > a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced features
> > including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc... Talend
> > also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts in all areas of
> > CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs
> > and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
> >
> > Change Notification Preferences
> > View Online | Add Comment
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org
http://dankulp.com/blog