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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com> on 2003/06/07 09:44:13 UTC
Cocoon Nuke
Hi all,
I just came across this article on ONJava : http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/3904
The JBoss group has developped a so-called CMS based on the architecture
of PHP Nuke. In fact it seems more to me that it's an aggregation
framework with CMS-ish modules, and maybe some of the coplet state
management features. The article focuses on ease of deployment and
assembly of modules, but the code samples made my hair draw up on my
head : hardcoded HTML in Java code !!
Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a killer to
demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the development of blocks.
What do you think ?
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just came across this article on ONJava :
> http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/3904
>
> The JBoss group has developped a so-called CMS based on the
> architecture of PHP Nuke. In fact it seems more to me that it's an
> aggregation framework with CMS-ish modules, and maybe some of the
> coplet state management features. The article focuses on ease of
> deployment and assembly of modules, but the code samples made my hair
> draw up on my head : hardcoded HTML in Java code !!
>
> Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a killer
> to demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the development
> of blocks.
>
> What do you think ?
Interesting ... I have not been aware of JBoss Nukes. I will add it to
the OSCOM matrix.
I think it would make sense to take a closer look at it and learn from
it in order to improve Apache Lenya.
Michael
>
>
> Sylvain
>
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Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote, On 07/06/2003 9.44:
> Hi all,
>
> I just came across this article on ONJava :
> http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/3904
>
> The JBoss group has developped a so-called CMS based on the architecture
> of PHP Nuke. In fact it seems more to me that it's an aggregation
> framework with CMS-ish modules, and maybe some of the coplet state
> management features. The article focuses on ease of deployment and
> assembly of modules, but the code samples made my hair draw up on my
> head : hardcoded HTML in Java code !!
>
> Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a killer to
> demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the development of
> blocks.
>
> What do you think ?
Forrest?
I'd like to see coplets, RSS aggregation, Lenya goodies, etc in there,
helpers are welcome :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just came across this article on ONJava :
> http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/3904
>
> The JBoss group has developped a so-called CMS based on the
> architecture of PHP Nuke. In fact it seems more to me that it's an
> aggregation framework with CMS-ish modules, and maybe some of the
> coplet state management features. The article focuses on ease of
> deployment and assembly of modules, but the code samples made my hair
> draw up on my head : hardcoded HTML in Java code !!
>
> Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a killer
> to demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the development
> of blocks.
>
> What do you think ?
Interesting ... I have not been aware of JBoss Nukes. I will add it to
the OSCOM matrix.
I think it would make sense to take a closer look at it and learn from
it in order to improve Apache Lenya.
Michael
>
>
> Sylvain
>
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Samedi, 14 juin 2003, à 23:56 Europe/Zurich, Stefano Mazzocchi a
écrit :
> ...But again, enough talking, let's do stuff...
+1 ;-)
-Bertrand
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
on 6/8/03 6:03 AM Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Samedi, 7 juin 2003, à 09:44 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
>
>
>>....the code samples made my hair draw up on my head : hardcoded HTML
>>in Java code !!
>
>
> Blessed arth thou, who haveth hair on their head ;-)
ahah
> It shows that users of such apps (simple CMSes) do not care what's
> under the hood.
>
>
>>...Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a
>>killer to demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the
>>development of blocks.
>
>
> Agreed but I would prefer such an app to be focused on / marketed as a
> "CMS development framework" rather than a "CMS app sample".
>
> PHP-based light CMSes a la PHPNuke have the big advantage of being very
> easy to install at most provider's sites: copy the .PHP files in the
> right places, edit one of them for config, that's it. Java-based apps
> cannot compete with PHP for ease of installation today unless you're
> running your server.
Cocoon blocks will change this. This is actually the ultimate goal of
blocks: provide super-easy assembly and deployment of your webapps but
without sacrificing architectural elegance for ease of use: cocoon will
give both at the same time!
> OTOH a Cocoon-based CMS would be much better in terms of XML-based
> content and expandability/connectivity through java, Avalon, etc.
>
> So I think such a demo app should be clearly targeted as developers,
> either to help them understand Cocoon or to serve as a basis for their
> developments, but not at end-users who usually just want to quickly
> setup a simple CMS and don't care about what's inside.
>
> My 2 <i18n key="favorite-currency"/>.
I'd like to see linotype as the seed for a micro-cms/blogger on top of
cocoon. I'll start with adding it to the CVS and let's see how things go
from there.
But again, enough talking, let's do stuff.
--
Stefano.
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Lundi, 9 juin 2003, à 23:11 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
> ....Sure, but module writers care about what's under the hood. And
> hardcoded HTML means hard-to-write modules, and therefore no fancy
> features !...
Totally agreed.
> ...Mmmh... you're IMO both right and wrong. Right, because Java
> hosting is microscopic compared to PHP hosting. But wrong since Cocoon
> is used (from my personal experience) on many intranets, and having
> such features builtin (as samples you can reuse) can certainly help
> Cocoon to have a wider usage range, instead of installing a PHP Nuke
> on the httpd that proxies Cocoon...
Ok, I see your point. The "light CMS" demo that you were talking about
should then clearly be targeted as such, and not try (for now) to
compete with PHPNuke and its already-too-numerous clones on the "plug
and play" aspects.
-Bertrand
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Samedi, 7 juin 2003, à 09:44 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
>
>> ....the code samples made my hair draw up on my head : hardcoded HTML
>> in Java code !!
>
>
> Blessed arth thou, who haveth hair on their head ;-)
ROFL ;-)
> It shows that users of such apps (simple CMSes) do not care what's
> under the hood.
Sure, but module writers care about what's under the hood. And hardcoded
HTML means hard-to-write modules, and therefore no fancy features !
>> ...Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a
>> killer to demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the
>> development of blocks.
>
>
> Agreed but I would prefer such an app to be focused on / marketed as a
> "CMS development framework" rather than a "CMS app sample".
>
> PHP-based light CMSes a la PHPNuke have the big advantage of being
> very easy to install at most provider's sites: copy the .PHP files in
> the right places, edit one of them for config, that's it. Java-based
> apps cannot compete with PHP for ease of installation today unless
> you're running your server.
>
> OTOH a Cocoon-based CMS would be much better in terms of XML-based
> content and expandability/connectivity through java, Avalon, etc.
>
> So I think such a demo app should be clearly targeted as developers,
> either to help them understand Cocoon or to serve as a basis for their
> developments, but not at end-users who usually just want to quickly
> setup a simple CMS and don't care about what's inside.
Mmmh... you're IMO both right and wrong. Right, because Java hosting is
microscopic compared to PHP hosting. But wrong since Cocoon is used
(from my personal experience) on many intranets, and having such
features builtin (as samples you can reuse) can certainly help Cocoon to
have a wider usage range, instead of installing a PHP Nuke on the httpd
that proxies Cocoon...
> My 2 <i18n key="favorite-currency"/>.
I guess it's swiss francs ;-)
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: Cocoon Nuke
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Samedi, 7 juin 2003, à 09:44 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
> ....the code samples made my hair draw up on my head : hardcoded HTML
> in Java code !!
Blessed arth thou, who haveth hair on their head ;-)
It shows that users of such apps (simple CMSes) do not care what's
under the hood.
> ...Having this kind of application as a Cocoon sample would be a
> killer to demonstrate its power. Furthermore, it may foster the
> development of blocks.
Agreed but I would prefer such an app to be focused on / marketed as a
"CMS development framework" rather than a "CMS app sample".
PHP-based light CMSes a la PHPNuke have the big advantage of being very
easy to install at most provider's sites: copy the .PHP files in the
right places, edit one of them for config, that's it. Java-based apps
cannot compete with PHP for ease of installation today unless you're
running your server.
OTOH a Cocoon-based CMS would be much better in terms of XML-based
content and expandability/connectivity through java, Avalon, etc.
So I think such a demo app should be clearly targeted as developers,
either to help them understand Cocoon or to serve as a basis for their
developments, but not at end-users who usually just want to quickly
setup a simple CMS and don't care about what's inside.
My 2 <i18n key="favorite-currency"/>.
-Bertrand