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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com> on 2013/10/08 15:19:06 UTC
[DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
new language features? This way, we can be ready when the new JDK
comes out (or shortly thereafter) to release a compatible version.
For example, wouldn't it be great if we had a lambda
expression-compatible version of Collections/Lang when JDK 8 hits the
streets?
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com>.
WRT [functor], this process has been ongoing; ex: the recent inversion of
its API names such that unary functor types get the "unadorned" names (i.e.
Function/Predicate/Procedure to be more in-line with Java 8). AIUI lambdas
buy you the ability to tersely implement single-method interfaces, so
[functor] should be a nice presence for *providing* generic versions of
said interfaces, as well as common wrappers around, and adapters between,
same. Not sure how much overlap there is with provided Java 8 interfaces
(obviously there are similar interfaces predating Java 8). None of this
will matter if we never get it out the door, though. :P
Matt
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Le 08/10/2013 16:04, James Carman a écrit :
>
> > Are there any other features of JDK8 that we think could be
> > used by our projects?
>
> You may want to rethink [functor] in a Java 8 context.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 08/10/2013 16:04, James Carman a écrit :
> Are there any other features of JDK8 that we think could be
> used by our projects?
You may want to rethink [functor] in a Java 8 context.
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> In compress I have created a branch that used snapshot releases of XZ
> for Java or developed Zip64 support in a branch (which required Java5
> when compress was at 1.4 compatibiity). Torsten used to do some API
> refactoring in a branch when compress was part of the sandbox.
>
That's great!
>
> Is there anyting we need to do to encourage "proactive feature
> development"? I wouldn't know what that could be.
>
Well, I think going ahead and doing it could be a way to show the
community we still have a pulse. Anyone have any cool ideas for
[lang] with lambdas? I don't know if we can do [collections] at this
point, unfortunately. We'd have to get the genericized version done
first. Are there any other features of JDK8 that we think could be
used by our projects?
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
> I am not saying we rule it out or anything. I'm talking about ideas
> that could be fun. I don't remember us ever doing something like
> that.
Well, my vision is somewhat narrow as I tend to stay in my little corner
in compress and only occasionaly lurk anywhere else.
In compress I have created a branch that used snapshot releases of XZ
for Java or developed Zip64 support in a branch (which required Java5
when compress was at 1.4 compatibiity). Torsten used to do some API
refactoring in a branch when compress was part of the sandbox.
Don't read this as boasting "we did branches" but rather as a signal
that it has always been possible to do that - if other components never
did it's just because nobody wanted to do it.
Is there anyting we need to do to encourage "proactive feature
development"? I wouldn't know what that could be.
Stefan
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I am not saying we rule it out or anything. I'm talking about ideas
that could be fun. I don't remember us ever doing something like
that.
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
>
>> How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
>> a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
>> with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
>> new language features?
>
> Maybe I'm just naive, but what exactly is stopping anybody from doing
> that right now? Or stopped anybody four years ago?
>
> I think we lack people coding up said features not rules that would
> allow such work.
>
> Stefan
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <be...@gmail.com>.
Send from my mobile device
> Am 08.10.2013 um 19:04 schrieb Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On 10/8/13 9:48 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>> 2013/10/8 Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>
>>
>>>> On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
>>>> a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
>>>> with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
>>>> new language features?
>>> Maybe I'm just naive, but what exactly is stopping anybody from doing
>>> that right now? Or stopped anybody four years ago?
>>>
>>> I think we lack people coding up said features not rules that would
>>> allow such work.
>> Right to the point, Stefan... But how can we attract more people? I've
>> expressed what I think can be done [1]. Any other ideas?
>
> I would say go for it if you have the time and energy to push these
> things along. Here is one more idea:
>
> Commons started as a place for ASF committers to work on shared /
> reusable stuff. Most of the original components were actually
> extracted from other projects. Many of our most "committed
> committers" over the years have been ASF ppl using "the commons"
> this way. In recent years, for various reasons - some having to do
> with our painful release process, some "reuse" sort of going out of
> fashion - this has trailed off quite a bit. We should ask ourselves
> what we can do to attract more ASF committers to Commons. I am sure
> some of the things you mention above might help, but I bet there are
> other things we could do for that population specifically. Maybe
> simply asking on community@ or members@ and directing people here to
> continue discussion might help.
This is a very good idea. I'll write something together when I find the time.
> Another thing we could do is to
> come clean about which components have insufficient "community" to
> support them. There may be projects that use some of these things
> with committers interested in helping keep them alive.
You have proposed to focus on our core components a few times now. I thing this is also a good idea which deserves it's own thread.
Benedikt
>
> Phil
>>
>> Benedikt
>>
>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/tda7qqjnkwwzwvua
>>
>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 10/8/13 9:48 AM, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
> 2013/10/8 Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>
>
>> On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
>>
>>> How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
>>> a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
>>> with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
>>> new language features?
>> Maybe I'm just naive, but what exactly is stopping anybody from doing
>> that right now? Or stopped anybody four years ago?
>>
>> I think we lack people coding up said features not rules that would
>> allow such work.
>>
> Right to the point, Stefan... But how can we attract more people? I've
> expressed what I think can be done [1]. Any other ideas?
I would say go for it if you have the time and energy to push these
things along. Here is one more idea:
Commons started as a place for ASF committers to work on shared /
reusable stuff. Most of the original components were actually
extracted from other projects. Many of our most "committed
committers" over the years have been ASF ppl using "the commons"
this way. In recent years, for various reasons - some having to do
with our painful release process, some "reuse" sort of going out of
fashion - this has trailed off quite a bit. We should ask ourselves
what we can do to attract more ASF committers to Commons. I am sure
some of the things you mention above might help, but I bet there are
other things we could do for that population specifically. Maybe
simply asking on community@ or members@ and directing people here to
continue discussion might help. Another thing we could do is to
come clean about which components have insufficient "community" to
support them. There may be projects that use some of these things
with committers interested in helping keep them alive.
Phil
>
> Benedikt
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/tda7qqjnkwwzwvua
>
>
>> Stefan
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
2013/10/8 Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>
> On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
>
> > How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
> > a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
> > with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
> > new language features?
>
> Maybe I'm just naive, but what exactly is stopping anybody from doing
> that right now? Or stopped anybody four years ago?
>
> I think we lack people coding up said features not rules that would
> allow such work.
>
Right to the point, Stefan... But how can we attract more people? I've
expressed what I think can be done [1]. Any other ideas?
Benedikt
[1] http://markmail.org/message/tda7qqjnkwwzwvua
>
> Stefan
>
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>
--
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proactive Feature Development...
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On 2013-10-08, James Carman wrote:
> How about this for an idea? What if instead of waiting until *after*
> a new JDK comes out (and in some cases MANY years later), we start
> with pre-release versions in a branch or something to start using the
> new language features?
Maybe I'm just naive, but what exactly is stopping anybody from doing
that right now? Or stopped anybody four years ago?
I think we lack people coding up said features not rules that would
allow such work.
Stefan
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