[avalon5:proposal] For future discussion

[Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>]

I committed a document to write down my thoughts on
the "big picture" items for what I would like to see in
Avalon 5--the wholistic view.

I only touched on some things, and I did not commit to
any implementation details--the only code samples in
there are used to illustrate the concept and hold no
bearing on actual implementation.



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RE: [avalon5:proposal] For future discussion

[Berin Loritsch <bl...@citi-us.com>]

> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
> 
> Berin:
> 
> Have just read though your document and I have to say that 
> you vision of 
> A5 is very much in line with my own thoughts concerning a containment 
> API.

Thanks.  I did pull some inspiration from you, Peter D.,
and Noel, and I combined them with my own thoughts.

>  I have some concerns about the necesity for the 
> LifecycleArtifacts 
> interface but that's probably more of an implemetation 
> concern based on 
> how you go about achieving the result your describing - but that's 
> something we can discuss at some other time.

Those are just implementation details.  We can discuss
it later.

The important thing is that I wanted to put together
a high level document for general design/concepts before
we got too deep into detailed discussions.  It is part
of the reason I kept wanting to push the A5 context
discussions till later--it's too fine a detail to start
with.

I find that starting with "bottom up" design (i.e.
detail first) lends to disproportionate APIs.  You can
tell where all the attention was spent, and by the time
the team came to other details they get so emotionally
drained from the first details that you get a "close-enough"
attitude.

When you start from the "top down", you provide a mental
framework for your designs.  That mental framework serves
to focus the details so that many conversations that might
otherwise occur about the details get filtered out--whether
it is a conscious decision or not.  You also are left with
a consistent architecture and a design where the same emotional
clarity is applied to all details at the same level.

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Re: [avalon5:proposal] For future discussion

[Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>]

Berin:

Have just read though your document and I have to say that you vision of 
A5 is very much in line with my own thoughts concerning a containment 
API.  I have some concerns about the necesity for the LifecycleArtifacts 
interface but that's probably more of an implemetation concern based on 
how you go about achieving the result your describing - but that's 
something we can discuss at some other time.

Good work!

Cheers, Steve.


Berin Loritsch wrote:

>I committed a document to write down my thoughts on
>the "big picture" items for what I would like to see in
>Avalon 5--the wholistic view.
>
>I only touched on some things, and I did not commit to
>any implementation details--the only code samples in
>there are used to illustrate the concept and hold no
>bearing on actual implementation.
>
>
>
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 

Stephen J. McConnell

OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net




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RE: [avalon5:proposal] For future discussion

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> I committed a document to write down my thoughts on
> the "big picture" items for what I would like to see
> in Avalon 5--the wholistic view.

Committed to where?  I looked in
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/avalon-sandbox/avalon5/, and saw nothing.
I looked in other obvious places, and saw nothing.  And I don't see a commit
notice on avalon-dev@ that would tell me where to look.

There are currently 9 CVS modules related to Avalon:

 avalon-sandbox/
 jakarta-avalon/
 jakarta-avalon-apps/
 jakarta-avalon-cornerstone/
 jakarta-avalon-excalibur/
 jakarta-avalon-logkit/
 jakarta-avalon-phoenix/
 jakarta-avalon-site/
 jakarta-avalon-testlet/

and 100s of directories.  I looked further in avalon-sandbox,
jakarta-avalon, jakart-avalon-site and a couple of others with no success.
Obviously it is in there somewhere, and I'm just missing it.  I presume that
Stephen found it by doing a cvs update -Pd and seeing what updates came down
the pipe, or by knowing the magic location.  I should not have to get 9 CVS
modules and run grep to find material.

	--- Noel


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