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Posted to server-user@james.apache.org by Carl Woodward <cj...@gmail.com> on 2006/09/04 09:09:37 UTC
Problems sending Hotmail
Hi,
I'm having trouble sending emails to hotmail addresses. They don't
come through at all. I have checked the spam/junk mailer folder and
its not there.
Also, emails to gmail get marked as spam.
Does anyone have a solution to this?
Thanks for your help,
Carl.
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Carl Woodward <cj...@gmail.com>.
Sorry I thought that was the rails mailing list. Apologies. You
already know I'm running james.
I have tried it on two systems running james and it doesnt seem to work.
On 9/4/06, Carl Woodward <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it is actually my mail server. I am running james (apache). I
> am going to switch over to postfix and see what happens. Only problem
> is that I want to run a full pop server as well so I have to configure
> all these different products, where as james had everything built in.
>
> What are you running?
>
> On 9/4/06, Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com> wrote:
> > I've had these problems with Yahoo mail too. Haven't figured out a
> > solution yet.
> > What is the nature of your server (I mean how it is being used, the
> > domain name, users, etc.)
> >
> > Probably we could figure out a problem if we all work together.
> >
> > Santosh.
> > Carl Woodward wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm having trouble sending emails to hotmail addresses. They don't
> > > come through at all. I have checked the spam/junk mailer folder and
> > > its not there.
> > >
> > > Also, emails to gmail get marked as spam.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a solution to this?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help,
> > > Carl.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl Woodward
> 0412218979
> cjwoodward@gmail.com
>
--
Carl Woodward
0412218979
cjwoodward@gmail.com
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>.
I doubt that James does anything that could increase the probability to
be marked as spam.
James simply relay the messages that you send to it.
Maybe that the domain of your "sender" email address have a domainkeys
or an spf record that declare rules not compatible with your james
server address: if this is the case you will have the same problem with
every mail server.
You may want to use a gateway (in the RemoteDelivery configuration) to
send all the outgoing mail through your provider mail server.
As an example if you try to send email using @gmail.com as sender and
the receiving server uses SPF then you will be subjected to this rules:
> host -t txt gmail.com
gmail.com text "v=spf1 redirect=_spf.google.com"
> host -t txt _spf.google.com
_spf.google.com text "v=spf1 ip4:216.239.56.0/23 ip4:64.233.160.0/19
ip4:66.249.80.0/20 ip4:72.14.192.0/18 ?all"
Stefano
Carl Woodward wrote:
> I think it is actually my mail server. I am running james (apache). I
> am going to switch over to postfix and see what happens. Only problem
> is that I want to run a full pop server as well so I have to configure
> all these different products, where as james had everything built in.
>
> What are you running?
>
> On 9/4/06, Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com> wrote:
>> I've had these problems with Yahoo mail too. Haven't figured out a
>> solution yet.
>> What is the nature of your server (I mean how it is being used, the
>> domain name, users, etc.)
>>
>> Probably we could figure out a problem if we all work together.
>>
>> Santosh.
>> Carl Woodward wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm having trouble sending emails to hotmail addresses. They don't
>> > come through at all. I have checked the spam/junk mailer folder and
>> > its not there.
>> >
>> > Also, emails to gmail get marked as spam.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have a solution to this?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help,
>> > Carl.
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Carl Woodward <cj...@gmail.com>.
I think it is actually my mail server. I am running james (apache). I
am going to switch over to postfix and see what happens. Only problem
is that I want to run a full pop server as well so I have to configure
all these different products, where as james had everything built in.
What are you running?
On 9/4/06, Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com> wrote:
> I've had these problems with Yahoo mail too. Haven't figured out a
> solution yet.
> What is the nature of your server (I mean how it is being used, the
> domain name, users, etc.)
>
> Probably we could figure out a problem if we all work together.
>
> Santosh.
> Carl Woodward wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm having trouble sending emails to hotmail addresses. They don't
> > come through at all. I have checked the spam/junk mailer folder and
> > its not there.
> >
> > Also, emails to gmail get marked as spam.
> >
> > Does anyone have a solution to this?
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> > Carl.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
>
>
--
Carl Woodward
0412218979
cjwoodward@gmail.com
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Carl Woodward <cj...@gmail.com>.
Guys, I have found something. If your sending email without a from
name then it goes straight to spam in gmail. Add a from name and it
comes through there. It is coming through as (Unknown Sender) for me
so I'm still looking. Hope this gives some help.
Cheers,
Carl.
On 9/5/06, Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com> wrote:
> That was a useful information about Hotmail an Microsoft policy.
>
> But the problem is not only observed in Hotmail, but also in Yahoo mail.
> After some time, even Gmail starts classifying the mails into spam. Its
> no where a problem related to JAMES. This issue may not pertain to the
> agenda of this project too. But if we share our knowledge and expertise,
> its probable that it will be useful in future for others.
>
> Essentially, its a Spam classification problem. In spite of being a
> legitimate mail server, the spam filters at Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail(which
> probably is more strict) classify them as bad. If we know, or figure
> out, how they do it, we might have a solution.
>
> We may end it right here if you feel I am pushing it too much. No hard
> feelings. :)
>
> Santosh.
>
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Santosh Puranshettiwar wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just checked with GMail, Yahoo! and Hotmail. Only Hotmail is marking
> >>>
> > mail
> >
> >>> as spam. And when I ask why, I am told that it is marked as spam only
> >>> because "Sender is not in your Allowed Senders list or your Contacts
> >>>
> > list."
> >
> >>> That's allegedly the default policy on Hotmail now, which would make
> >>>
> > most
> >
> >>> e-mail spam, and requires you to mark the sender as known.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >> I agree. JAMES couldn't be *it*.
> >> But quite a few of us are facing this problem, probably we
> >> should digg it and document the problem somewhere for future.
> >>
> >
> > And what do you want to document?
> >
> > I also sent e-mail direct from my Google Mail account to hotmail. Worked
> > fine.
> >
> > I then sent e-mail using my @apache.org address via the Apache servers, and
> > it was flagged by hotmail as spam. The MTA is qmail, not JAMES; and Apache
> > has proper SPF records, so my @apache.org address was coming from a
> > legitimate @apache.org relay. Amusingly enough, the MUA on my end, in all
> > cases except for GMail, was Microsoft Outlook.
> >
> > And one of the messages I sent from @apache.org didn't show up anywhere: no
> > e-mail, nor spam nor bounce to indicate a problem. I received a message
> > that it was being spooled for delivery, and then it vanished.
> >
> > Again:
> >
> >
> >>> Bottom line: it isn't JAMES.
> >>>
> >
> > What I found after some digging around on the Internet are claims that
> > Microsoft is "pushing their BondedSender like crazy", and that "if you want
> > [mail delivered to hotmail users] badly enough, then you will probably pay
> > to use their bonded sender program. Otherwise, you may be forced to
> > eliminate all hotmail users from your lists, or at least live with the fact
> > that most mail from you to hotmail is going to be blocked or dropped."
> >
> > See also: http://www.emailbattles.com/2006/04/20/email_aadeefedia_di/
> >
> > "Microsoft says you should deploy its lightly used [and patent encumbered]
> > Sender-ID email authentication and/or pay for SenderScoreCertified
> > (previously known as "bondedsender")."
> >
> > Or: http://www.emailbattles.com/2005/12/08/email_aaccedjcjd_f/
> >
> > "millions of Comcast subscribers have been unable to send email to MSN or
> > Hotmail."
> >
> > Or any number of other reports about Hotmail that 30 seconds in Google will
> > turn up for you.
> >
> > I agree that this is useful information, but again, what do you want to
> > document? I am trying to be nice about it, but from my perspective, these
> > problems amount to nothing more than what I expect from a Microsoft Internet
> > property. In my view, the only interesting thing from my testing is that
> > the e-mail from GMail worked, which leads to interesting speculation but
> > nothing particularly useful in terms of your problems delivery mail to
> > Hotmail users, other than to suggest that they switch from Hotmail to
> > another web mail provider, such as GMail.
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
>
>
--
Carl Woodward
0412218979
cjwoodward@gmail.com
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com>.
That was a useful information about Hotmail an Microsoft policy.
But the problem is not only observed in Hotmail, but also in Yahoo mail.
After some time, even Gmail starts classifying the mails into spam. Its
no where a problem related to JAMES. This issue may not pertain to the
agenda of this project too. But if we share our knowledge and expertise,
its probable that it will be useful in future for others.
Essentially, its a Spam classification problem. In spite of being a
legitimate mail server, the spam filters at Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail(which
probably is more strict) classify them as bad. If we know, or figure
out, how they do it, we might have a solution.
We may end it right here if you feel I am pushing it too much. No hard
feelings. :)
Santosh.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Santosh Puranshettiwar wrote:
>
>
>> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>
>>> Just checked with GMail, Yahoo! and Hotmail. Only Hotmail is marking
>>>
> mail
>
>>> as spam. And when I ask why, I am told that it is marked as spam only
>>> because "Sender is not in your Allowed Senders list or your Contacts
>>>
> list."
>
>>> That's allegedly the default policy on Hotmail now, which would make
>>>
> most
>
>>> e-mail spam, and requires you to mark the sender as known.
>>>
>
>
>> I agree. JAMES couldn't be *it*.
>> But quite a few of us are facing this problem, probably we
>> should digg it and document the problem somewhere for future.
>>
>
> And what do you want to document?
>
> I also sent e-mail direct from my Google Mail account to hotmail. Worked
> fine.
>
> I then sent e-mail using my @apache.org address via the Apache servers, and
> it was flagged by hotmail as spam. The MTA is qmail, not JAMES; and Apache
> has proper SPF records, so my @apache.org address was coming from a
> legitimate @apache.org relay. Amusingly enough, the MUA on my end, in all
> cases except for GMail, was Microsoft Outlook.
>
> And one of the messages I sent from @apache.org didn't show up anywhere: no
> e-mail, nor spam nor bounce to indicate a problem. I received a message
> that it was being spooled for delivery, and then it vanished.
>
> Again:
>
>
>>> Bottom line: it isn't JAMES.
>>>
>
> What I found after some digging around on the Internet are claims that
> Microsoft is "pushing their BondedSender like crazy", and that "if you want
> [mail delivered to hotmail users] badly enough, then you will probably pay
> to use their bonded sender program. Otherwise, you may be forced to
> eliminate all hotmail users from your lists, or at least live with the fact
> that most mail from you to hotmail is going to be blocked or dropped."
>
> See also: http://www.emailbattles.com/2006/04/20/email_aadeefedia_di/
>
> "Microsoft says you should deploy its lightly used [and patent encumbered]
> Sender-ID email authentication and/or pay for SenderScoreCertified
> (previously known as “bondedsender”)."
>
> Or: http://www.emailbattles.com/2005/12/08/email_aaccedjcjd_f/
>
> "millions of Comcast subscribers have been unable to send email to MSN or
> Hotmail."
>
> Or any number of other reports about Hotmail that 30 seconds in Google will
> turn up for you.
>
> I agree that this is useful information, but again, what do you want to
> document? I am trying to be nice about it, but from my perspective, these
> problems amount to nothing more than what I expect from a Microsoft Internet
> property. In my view, the only interesting thing from my testing is that
> the e-mail from GMail worked, which leads to interesting speculation but
> nothing particularly useful in terms of your problems delivery mail to
> Hotmail users, other than to suggest that they switch from Hotmail to
> another web mail provider, such as GMail.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Santosh Puranshettiwar wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Just checked with GMail, Yahoo! and Hotmail. Only Hotmail is marking
mail
> > as spam. And when I ask why, I am told that it is marked as spam only
> > because "Sender is not in your Allowed Senders list or your Contacts
list."
> > That's allegedly the default policy on Hotmail now, which would make
most
> > e-mail spam, and requires you to mark the sender as known.
> I agree. JAMES couldn't be *it*.
> But quite a few of us are facing this problem, probably we
> should digg it and document the problem somewhere for future.
And what do you want to document?
I also sent e-mail direct from my Google Mail account to hotmail. Worked
fine.
I then sent e-mail using my @apache.org address via the Apache servers, and
it was flagged by hotmail as spam. The MTA is qmail, not JAMES; and Apache
has proper SPF records, so my @apache.org address was coming from a
legitimate @apache.org relay. Amusingly enough, the MUA on my end, in all
cases except for GMail, was Microsoft Outlook.
And one of the messages I sent from @apache.org didn't show up anywhere: no
e-mail, nor spam nor bounce to indicate a problem. I received a message
that it was being spooled for delivery, and then it vanished.
Again:
> > Bottom line: it isn't JAMES.
What I found after some digging around on the Internet are claims that
Microsoft is "pushing their BondedSender like crazy", and that "if you want
[mail delivered to hotmail users] badly enough, then you will probably pay
to use their bonded sender program. Otherwise, you may be forced to
eliminate all hotmail users from your lists, or at least live with the fact
that most mail from you to hotmail is going to be blocked or dropped."
See also: http://www.emailbattles.com/2006/04/20/email_aadeefedia_di/
"Microsoft says you should deploy its lightly used [and patent encumbered]
Sender-ID email authentication and/or pay for SenderScoreCertified
(previously known as bondedsender)."
Or: http://www.emailbattles.com/2005/12/08/email_aaccedjcjd_f/
"millions of Comcast subscribers have been unable to send email to MSN or
Hotmail."
Or any number of other reports about Hotmail that 30 seconds in Google will
turn up for you.
I agree that this is useful information, but again, what do you want to
document? I am trying to be nice about it, but from my perspective, these
problems amount to nothing more than what I expect from a Microsoft Internet
property. In my view, the only interesting thing from my testing is that
the e-mail from GMail worked, which leads to interesting speculation but
nothing particularly useful in terms of your problems delivery mail to
Hotmail users, other than to suggest that they switch from Hotmail to
another web mail provider, such as GMail.
--- Noel
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com>.
I agree. JAMES couldn't be *it*.
But quite a few of us are facing this problem, probably we should digg
it and document the problem somewhere for future.
What say?
Santosh.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Just checked with GMail, Yahoo! and Hotmail. Only Hotmail is marking mail
> as spam. And when I ask why, I am told that it is marked as spam only
> because "Sender is not in your Allowed Senders list or your Contacts list."
> That's allegedly the default policy on Hotmail now, which would make most
> e-mail spam, and requires you to mark the sender as known.
>
> What's interesting is that I still receive spam on Hotmail, and from senders
> not on my list. So Hotmail isn't being entirely forthcoming about their
> filtering policy (its Microsoft, so like that's a surprise), but at least
> the e-mail coming from me is governed by that policy.
>
> Bottom line: it isn't JAMES.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Just checked with GMail, Yahoo! and Hotmail. Only Hotmail is marking mail
as spam. And when I ask why, I am told that it is marked as spam only
because "Sender is not in your Allowed Senders list or your Contacts list."
That's allegedly the default policy on Hotmail now, which would make most
e-mail spam, and requires you to mark the sender as known.
What's interesting is that I still receive spam on Hotmail, and from senders
not on my list. So Hotmail isn't being entirely forthcoming about their
filtering policy (its Microsoft, so like that's a surprise), but at least
the e-mail coming from me is governed by that policy.
Bottom line: it isn't JAMES.
--- Noel
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RE: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I've had these problems with Yahoo mail too.
I have JAMES in production on a static IP and it works just fine with Yahoo
and Hotmail, and everything else.
I am on several Yahoo-based mailing lists, and have noticed some timeouts
with Yahoo lately, but that's why they have (and we try) multiple servers
during delivery. And why servers (are supposed to) make many attempts for
mail.
It is a constant battle against the spam gangs. Last night I noticed a
storm where in about 9 hours we had more than 72K connections rejected
because there were more than the maximum connections already in use, and
that's in addition to handled over 50K connections (and message attempts) in
that same period. Much of the traffic was generated by legitimate servers,
particularly prodigy.net's mail servers, sending bounces for forged traffic
sent by spambots. The traffic dropped off a couple of hours ago, possibly
when mail administrators got into their offices and saw their traffic, and
things are back to normal.
--- Noel
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Re: Problems sending Hotmail
Posted by Santosh Puranshettiwar <sa...@wirkle.com>.
I've had these problems with Yahoo mail too. Haven't figured out a
solution yet.
What is the nature of your server (I mean how it is being used, the
domain name, users, etc.)
Probably we could figure out a problem if we all work together.
Santosh.
Carl Woodward wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm having trouble sending emails to hotmail addresses. They don't
> come through at all. I have checked the spam/junk mailer folder and
> its not there.
>
> Also, emails to gmail get marked as spam.
>
> Does anyone have a solution to this?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Carl.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-user-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: server-user-help@james.apache.org
>
>
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