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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Grégoire Welraeds <gw...@eastnets.com> on 2009/04/13 16:14:30 UTC
Issue tracker in subversion
Hello,
Just a quick question. Is there any plan to make an issue tracker inside
subversion?
I have looked at both DITrack and subissue but they both looks like dead
and/or buggy projects.
Does anyone have valuable input on this?
Best regards,
Grégoire Welraeds
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
2009/4/13 Grégoire Welraeds <gw...@eastnets.com>:
> Hello,
>
> Just a quick question. Is there any plan to make an issue tracker inside
> subversion?
> I have looked at both DITrack and subissue but they both looks like dead
> and/or buggy projects.
> Does anyone have valuable input on this?
I just wanted to say a few words about integrating defect tracking
with version control.
Back in the 1960s, the Germans produced the Amphicar It was a mix of
a car and a boat. You could drive it to the lake and right into the
lake. Well, it turned out that it was both a lousy car and a lousy
boat: <http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658498,00.html>
Most integrated version control/defect tracking packages are either
bad defect tracking systems, bad version control systems, or both.
I've used Sablime, PVCS, ClearCase/ClearQuest, StarTeam, and a few
more I can't quite remember. In almost all of them, whatever level of
integration existed between the version control side and the defect
tracking side was a disappointment. You ended up with a lousy version
control system, a lousy defect tracking system, and an integration
that was no better than I could design with a few hooks and a late
night on a coffee buzz.
In ClearCase/ClearQuest, the ClearQuest issue ID was placed on the
revision of the file that was fixed, and the file's revision ID was
included in the ClearQuest side. However, something as simple as
asking "What files and revisions were fixed with ClearQuest issue
#1005?" couldn't be done. Yes, there was a field -- a very hard to
read field that contained the name of the file (as well as the view's
name), but this field simply could not be queried. Nor, could you
easily go to the ClearCase side and say "Show me all the files and
their check in comments that went with issue #1005". Such a query
could take hours. The entire integration depended upon a ClearCase
Perl trigger that had to be executed on everyone's system. We had over
150 users and spent almost all of our time installing software
whenever someone got a new computer.
You're almost always better finding the defect tracking and version
control systems that do the job you need. In almost all cases, a good
defect tracking system and a good version control system will contain
the hooks you need to do the integration. I know that Seapine not only
has a Subversion integration, but also integrates with IDEs which is
even more important. One of the things developers hate is having to go
into another piece of software to do their work. I don't know how well
TestTrack integrates with Subversion, but I take it that it's no worse
than most integrated suites.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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RE: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by "Bolstridge, Andrew" <an...@intergraph.com>.
Mantis is good, simple and works well. Its SVN integration is reasonable - it allows you to close bugs where the commit log message matches a regexp.
I would look into trac as well, that has good subversion support and provides you with more than just a bugtracker.
I wouldn't want SVN to incorporate a bugtracker, it should control versions, it doesn’t need to be bloated with bugtrackers, work item tracking, project management features, timekeeping features, progress statistics and all the other gumpf that would be better implemented in a side project.
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RE: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Bob Archer <bo...@amsi.com>.
> For a few reasons, among others:
Have you taken a look at Collabnet's Teamforge. It is build on top of
svn and highly integrated into it. Although it is not free/open source
I'm pretty sure. I think you can get a free trial for up to 25 users.
BOb
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RE: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by "Bolstridge, Andrew" <an...@intergraph.com>.
From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mmeyer@lexmark.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:33 PM
To: Les Mikesell
Cc: vishwajeet singh; Gregoire Welraeds; Jim Hanley;
users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com> wrote on 04/14/2009 11:28:20 AM:
> I sort-of disagree. Change requests are almost by definition, not
what
> any version of the code is - and often not even related to anything
that
> exists. They are generally made by people who don't work directly
with
> the code, don't have the subversion tools, and want a form/database
type
> of interaction. That is, they want to count instances of completed
and
> unfinished requests or find a keyword, not look at yesterday's or last
> week's list of requests or compare two lists.
Right - change requests are related to changelists, not source. The
developers tend to want to ask questions like "Tell me what change
requests this changelist was in response to" and the converse "which
changelist(s) fixed this issue".
> Some trackers have ways to tie the commit revision to the request/bug,
> which is all you need.
Yup. But they tend to do it with commit hooks, which some people aren't
comfortable with. I can understand that: to much code in the commit
hooks leads to to likely failures in said code, which
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Mike Meyer <mm...@lexmark.com>.
Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com> wrote on 04/14/2009 11:28:20 AM:
> I sort-of disagree. Change requests are almost by definition, not what
> any version of the code is - and often not even related to anything that
> exists. They are generally made by people who don't work directly with
> the code, don't have the subversion tools, and want a form/database type
> of interaction. That is, they want to count instances of completed and
> unfinished requests or find a keyword, not look at yesterday's or last
> week's list of requests or compare two lists.
Right - change requests are related to changelists, not source. The
developers tend to want to ask questions like "Tell me what change
requests this changelist was in response to" and the converse "which
changelist(s) fixed this issue".
> Some trackers have ways to tie the commit revision to the request/bug,
> which is all you need.
Yup. But they tend to do it with commit hooks, which some people aren't
comfortable with. I can understand that: to much code in the commit hooks
leads to to likely failures in said code, which
> > I could easily
> > filter the changes requests by branches, be it maintenance,
development,
> > feature branches without having to artificially created the same in an
> > external third tool.
> What would that mean for someone trying to track and verify the feature
> deployment/bug fix? What if it isn't all related to code in one
> repository?
And those queries be answered based on the changelist/request
relationship: I.e. - "find change requests attached to change lists which
affect files on this branch".
Not trying to start a flame war, but I recommend taking a look at how
perforce (which is in many ways similar to svn, a similarity that's
increasing as subversion adds/improves features) handles these things.
They added a "job" class to the backend database, and a few simple tools
for editing/querying that class, plus a way to link them to changelists.
Yes, it's a lousy change request tracking system, because all it really is
is a change request database + some query tools. A variety of third party
tools use that back end jobs database to build real request tracking
systems. On reflection, it might not be applicable to subversion because
perforce allows users (well, admins) to do form database like
configuration for standard objects (users, workspaces, changelists, and
probably others I'm missing), so that jobs were an easy add. I don't think
subversion allows that, so it may not fit so well. But I think it's still
worth looking at.
<mike
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
Gregoire Welraeds wrote:
>
>>> Thanks for your answers. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for yet
>>> another bug tracker which can interact with subversion by post-commit
>>> hooks.
>>> I'm looking for subversion hosted bug tracker. That is why I
>>> mentioned DITrack and subissue in my previous post.
>>> I have the feeling that this 2 projects are stalled.
>> Why do you want to use a tool for something it doesn't do well?
> For a few reasons, among others:
> - Change Requests/issues are tightly related to the code source. IMO,
> they could even be part of the code, like comments and documentation
> are. Change request could be stored directly in Subversion repository,
> next to the source.
I sort-of disagree. Change requests are almost by definition, not what
any version of the code is - and often not even related to anything that
exists. They are generally made by people who don't work directly with
the code, don't have the subversion tools, and want a form/database type
of interaction. That is, they want to count instances of completed and
unfinished requests or find a keyword, not look at yesterday's or last
week's list of requests or compare two lists.
> - It could enforce teams to work with an issues tracker. To some extend,
> Subversion commits comments are just an extension of a Change Request
> description.
I suppose that's remotely possible, but there's not necessarily a
connection. And if you have any formal testing process, it should be
part of the QA process that decides if a request has been completed, not
the fact that some code has been committed.
> - Subversion is very good at manipulating text files and their
> modifications. Why should I use something else?
Because people want searches, lists, and counts in the request and bug
trackers, something subversion isn't good at. And there are free tools
that are good at it.
> - There should be no need to setup additional infrastructure for basic
> needs of issue tracking. Why should I be using a third party software
> for something which is part of my code, especially if it is bundled with
> a third party database.
Because you can. For free. And it will do the job it is designed to do.
> - It would let me work while being offline. Once online: svn update . /
> svn commit . to import my modifications to the issue tracker.
Some trackers have ways to tie the commit revision to the request/bug,
which is all you need.
> - a tight integration of an issue tracker in subversion would let us
> benefits from the inherent features of the VCS and stronger the
> interaction between the two. For instance, I could branch my Change
> Request tree while creating a feature branch in the code.
If the coders get to change the requests to match the code, why bother?
> I could easily
> filter the changes requests by branches, be it maintenance, development,
> feature branches without having to artificially created the same in an
> external third tool.
What would that mean for someone trying to track and verify the feature
deployment/bug fix? What if it isn't all related to code in one
repository?
> As a release manager with a team of 10 developers using Seapine
> TestTrack Pro*, I always end up to look at svn logs to document the
> release. These are only thoughts but I'm sure there are other advantages
> of having both VCS and Issue tracker integrated. BTW, the idea is not
> mine: see subissue, DITrack or even Fossil scm.
Do any of those handle searching/counting/list generation operations
very well? Do they have somewhere to store comments about things that
don't exist yet that can subsequently be tied to a location/revision
when it does? What about related issues that aren't stored in the
repository but still need to be tracked/searched/listed?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:45:46AM -0400, Bob Archer wrote:
>>> I think tigris.org was down for quite a while yesterday. The web site
>>> didn't work and there was no email on the svn or tortoise lists either.
>>>
>>> All seems to be working again today.
>>
>> tigris.org has been having DNS problems lately.
>> No idea why, and no idea why they happened more than once.
>>
>> In case it happens again, you can try this IP:
>> tigris.org has address 204.16.104.146
>
> I did not see it happen twice, but perhaps when the problem was fixed
> there was downtime while the routes were being put back.
>
> The DNS servers for tigris are hosted by a colo facility in SF. Last
> week, there was some sabotage of the fiber optic network that impacted
> a huge part of the Bay area, including this colo. It did not effect
> the site where tigris itself lives, so many of us were able to access
> the site fine. But for those who did not have the DNS entries cached
> it was down.
>
> All the gory details are here:
>
> http://unitedlayer.com/show.html?id=37
BTW, a Twitter account has been setup so that people can inquire about
site outages.
http://twitter.com/tigrisdotorg
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:45:46AM -0400, Bob Archer wrote:
>> I think tigris.org was down for quite a while yesterday. The web site
>> didn't work and there was no email on the svn or tortoise lists either.
>>
>> All seems to be working again today.
>
> tigris.org has been having DNS problems lately.
> No idea why, and no idea why they happened more than once.
>
> In case it happens again, you can try this IP:
> tigris.org has address 204.16.104.146
I did not see it happen twice, but perhaps when the problem was fixed
there was downtime while the routes were being put back.
The DNS servers for tigris are hosted by a colo facility in SF. Last
week, there was some sabotage of the fiber optic network that impacted
a huge part of the Bay area, including this colo. It did not effect
the site where tigris itself lives, so many of us were able to access
the site fine. But for those who did not have the DNS entries cached
it was down.
All the gory details are here:
http://unitedlayer.com/show.html?id=37
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de>.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:45:46AM -0400, Bob Archer wrote:
> I think tigris.org was down for quite a while yesterday. The web site
> didn't work and there was no email on the svn or tortoise lists either.
>
> All seems to be working again today.
tigris.org has been having DNS problems lately.
No idea why, and no idea why they happened more than once.
In case it happens again, you can try this IP:
tigris.org has address 204.16.104.146
Stefan
RE: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Bob Archer <bo...@amsi.com>.
I think tigris.org was down for quite a while yesterday. The web site
didn't work and there was no email on the svn or tortoise lists either.
All seems to be working again today.
BOb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hanley [mailto:jhanley@DGtlRift.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:22 AM
> To: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: Issue tracker in subversion
>
> Quoting Jim Hanley <jh...@DGtlRift.com>:
>
> > See:
> > http://subversion.ti?gris.org/issues/show?_bug.cgi?id=2917
>
> Not sure what the deal is with the link, but I'll try again:
> http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2917
>
>
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Jim Hanley <jh...@DGtlRift.com>.
Quoting Jim Hanley <jh...@DGtlRift.com>:
> See:
> http://subversion.ti?gris.org/issues/show?_bug.cgi?id=2917
Not sure what the deal is with the link, but I'll try again:
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2917
Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Jim Hanley <jh...@DGtlRift.com>.
There are some convincing arguments, but IMHO, this is (at least for
the time being) beyond the scope of a version control system.
The way I look at it, DITrack is what you are looking for, but is
lacking a huge set of core features that most other OTS issue tracking
systems already have. It is a start, but it's not like it's
integrated into SVN, you need to have both svn and DITrack installed
to take advantage of the DITrack db in the repo. I see DITrack as
feeling out how to solve a problem the svn developers may (or may not)
consider in the future - somewhat like SVK of a few years ago, which
now some of the functionality/solutions that svk provided are now
being included as part of the core functionality of svn. However, the
difference is that SVK is also a VCS. If there was a desire to have
such functionality of DITrack, I feel it would be better to solve this
through the method that issue 2917 would resolve. In this fashion the
core functionality of subversion would be to provide version control
and periphery projects implemented through lua could be "dropped" into
to a subversion repository extending the core functionality.
See:
http://subversion.ti?gris.org/issues/show?_bug.cgi?id=2917
Quoting Gregoire Welraeds <gr...@side-international.com>:
> On 14/04/2009 14:33, Les Mikesell wrote:
>> Gregoire Welraeds wrote:
>>> Thanks for your answers. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for yet
>>> another bug tracker which can interact with subversion by post-commit
>>> hooks.
>>> I'm looking for subversion hosted bug tracker. That is why I
>>> mentioned DITrack and subissue in my previous post.
>>> I have the feeling that this 2 projects are stalled.
>> Why do you want to use a tool for something it doesn't do well?
> For a few reasons, among others:
> - Change Requests/issues are tightly related to the code source. IMO,
> they could even be part of the code, like comments and documentation
> are. Change request could be stored directly in Subversion repository,
> next to the source.
> - It could enforce teams to work with an issues tracker. To some extend,
> Subversion commits comments are just an extension of a Change Request
> description.
> - Subversion is very good at manipulating text files and their
> modifications. Why should I use something else?
> - There should be no need to setup additional infrastructure for basic
> needs of issue tracking. Why should I be using a third party software
> for something which is part of my code, especially if it is bundled with
> a third party database.
> - It would let me work while being offline. Once online: svn update . /
> svn commit . to import my modifications to the issue tracker.
> - a tight integration of an issue tracker in subversion would let us
> benefits from the inherent features of the VCS and stronger the
> interaction between the two. For instance, I could branch my Change
> Request tree while creating a feature branch in the code. I could easily
> filter the changes requests by branches, be it maintenance, development,
> feature branches without having to artificially created the same in an
> external third tool.
>
> As a release manager with a team of 10 developers using Seapine
> TestTrack Pro*, I always end up to look at svn logs to document the
> release. These are only thoughts but I'm sure there are other advantages
> of having both VCS and Issue tracker integrated. BTW, the idea is not
> mine: see subissue, DITrack or even Fossil scm.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1710959
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail:
> [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>
Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Gregoire Welraeds <gr...@side-international.com>.
On 14/04/2009 14:33, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Gregoire Welraeds wrote:
>> Thanks for your answers. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for yet
>> another bug tracker which can interact with subversion by post-commit
>> hooks.
>> I'm looking for subversion hosted bug tracker. That is why I
>> mentioned DITrack and subissue in my previous post.
>> I have the feeling that this 2 projects are stalled.
> Why do you want to use a tool for something it doesn't do well?
For a few reasons, among others:
- Change Requests/issues are tightly related to the code source. IMO,
they could even be part of the code, like comments and documentation
are. Change request could be stored directly in Subversion repository,
next to the source.
- It could enforce teams to work with an issues tracker. To some extend,
Subversion commits comments are just an extension of a Change Request
description.
- Subversion is very good at manipulating text files and their
modifications. Why should I use something else?
- There should be no need to setup additional infrastructure for basic
needs of issue tracking. Why should I be using a third party software
for something which is part of my code, especially if it is bundled with
a third party database.
- It would let me work while being offline. Once online: svn update . /
svn commit . to import my modifications to the issue tracker.
- a tight integration of an issue tracker in subversion would let us
benefits from the inherent features of the VCS and stronger the
interaction between the two. For instance, I could branch my Change
Request tree while creating a feature branch in the code. I could easily
filter the changes requests by branches, be it maintenance, development,
feature branches without having to artificially created the same in an
external third tool.
As a release manager with a team of 10 developers using Seapine
TestTrack Pro*, I always end up to look at svn logs to document the
release. These are only thoughts but I'm sure there are other advantages
of having both VCS and Issue tracker integrated. BTW, the idea is not
mine: see subissue, DITrack or even Fossil scm.
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
Gregoire Welraeds wrote:
> Thanks for your answers. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for yet another bug
> tracker which can interact with subversion by post-commit hooks.
> I'm looking for subversion hosted bug tracker. That is why I mentioned DITrack
> and subissue in my previous post.
> I have the feeling that this 2 projects are stalled.
Why do you want to use a tool for something it doesn't do well?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Gregoire Welraeds <gr...@side-international.com>.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Thanks for your answers. Nevertheless, I'm not looking for yet another
bug tracker which can interact with subversion by post-commit hooks. <br>
I'm looking for subversion hosted bug tracker. That is why I mentioned
DITrack and subissue in my previous post. <br>
I have the feeling that this 2 projects are stalled.<br>
<br>
On 14/04/2009 6:59, vishwajeet singh wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:5487b3060904132159m70bc4193y766ef88957156f8a@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Flyspray could also be an option<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2009/4/14 Jim Hanley <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jhanley@dgtlrift.com">jhanley@dgtlrift.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
would take a look at MantisBT <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mantisbt.org/" target="_blank">http://www.mantisbt.org/</a>
which can integrate nicely with subversion through post-commit hooks.
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Quoting Grégoire Welraeds <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gwelraeds@eastnets.com" target="_blank">gwelraeds@eastnets.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hello,<br>
<br>
Just a quick question. Is there any plan to make an issue tracker inside<br>
subversion?<br>
I have looked at both DITrack and subissue but they both looks like dead<br>
and/or buggy projects.<br>
Does anyone have valuable input on this?<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Grégoire Welraeds<br>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Cheers,<br>
Vishwajeet<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.singhvishwajeet.com">http://www.singhvishwajeet.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Dextrous <de...@gmail.com>.
Flyspray could also be an option
2009/4/14 Jim Hanley <jh...@dgtlrift.com>
> I would take a look at MantisBT http://www.mantisbt.org/ which can
> integrate nicely with subversion through post-commit hooks.
>
>
> Quoting Grégoire Welraeds <gw...@eastnets.com>:
>
> Hello,
>>
>> Just a quick question. Is there any plan to make an issue tracker inside
>> subversion?
>> I have looked at both DITrack and subissue but they both looks like dead
>> and/or buggy projects.
>> Does anyone have valuable input on this?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Grégoire Welraeds
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1696382
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [
>> users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Vishwajeet
http://www.singhvishwajeet.com
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Re: Issue tracker in subversion
Posted by Jim Hanley <jh...@DGtlRift.com>.
I would take a look at MantisBT http://www.mantisbt.org/ which can
integrate nicely with subversion through post-commit hooks.
Quoting Grégoire Welraeds <gw...@eastnets.com>:
> Hello,
>
> Just a quick question. Is there any plan to make an issue tracker inside
> subversion?
> I have looked at both DITrack and subissue but they both looks like dead
> and/or buggy projects.
> Does anyone have valuable input on this?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Grégoire Welraeds
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1696382
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail:
> [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>