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Posted to j-dev@xerces.apache.org by Neil Delima <nd...@ca.ibm.com> on 2006/07/12 00:37:53 UTC
Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Hi All,
It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and Xalan-J
dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same baseline capability
as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted to improve its performance
and fix bugs and it is being maintained by Xalan-J community and so we
should use Xalan's serializer as the primary code base moving forward.
Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since Xerces
2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but would first
need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer which Xerces could
pick up and use. I am willing to take on this work. Once this work is
complete, we would be in position to deprecate Xerces's XML serializers
after the next major release.
Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not to
have dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can continue to
reside as a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the JAXP
1.3 Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML streams, SAX
events (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM, which could be based
on common serializer code.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Michael Glavassevich <mr...@ca.ibm.com>.
Hi Neil,
I took part in the assessment of the two code bases back in 2004 and fully
agree that moving to a shared serializer is the way to go. Thanks for
volunteering to work on the DOM L3 migration.
+1.
Neil Delima/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA wrote on 07/11/2006 06:37:53 PM:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
> serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and
> Xalan-J dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same
> baseline capability as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted
> to improve its performance and fix bugs and it is being maintained
> by Xalan-J community and so we should use Xalan's serializer as the
> primary code base moving forward.
>
> Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since
> Xerces 2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but
> would first need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer
> which Xerces could pick up and use. I am willing to take on this
> work. Once this work is complete, we would be in position to
> deprecate Xerces's XML serializers after the next major release.
>
> Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not
> to have dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can
> continue to reside as a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
>
> In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the
> JAXP 1.3 Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML
> streams, SAX events (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM,
> which could be based on common serializer code.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: mrglavas@ca.ibm.com
E-mail: mrglavas@apache.org
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Michael Glavassevich <mr...@ca.ibm.com>.
Hi Neil,
I took part in the assessment of the two code bases back in 2004 and fully
agree that moving to a shared serializer is the way to go. Thanks for
volunteering to work on the DOM L3 migration.
+1.
Neil Delima/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA wrote on 07/11/2006 06:37:53 PM:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
> serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and
> Xalan-J dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same
> baseline capability as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted
> to improve its performance and fix bugs and it is being maintained
> by Xalan-J community and so we should use Xalan's serializer as the
> primary code base moving forward.
>
> Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since
> Xerces 2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but
> would first need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer
> which Xerces could pick up and use. I am willing to take on this
> work. Once this work is complete, we would be in position to
> deprecate Xerces's XML serializers after the next major release.
>
> Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not
> to have dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can
> continue to reside as a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
>
> In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the
> JAXP 1.3 Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML
> streams, SAX events (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM,
> which could be based on common serializer code.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: mrglavas@ca.ibm.com
E-mail: mrglavas@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Peter McCracken <pe...@ca.ibm.com>.
Hi Neil,
I agree. A shared serialization codebase is the way to go.
+1
Neil Delima/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA wrote on 11/07/2006 06:37:53 PM:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
> serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and
> Xalan-J dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same
> baseline capability as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted
> to improve its performance and fix bugs and it is being maintained
> by Xalan-J community and so we should use Xalan's serializer as the
> primary code base moving forward.
>
> Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since
> Xerces 2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but
> would first need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer
> which Xerces could pick up and use. I am willing to take on this
> work. Once this work is complete, we would be in position to
> deprecate Xerces's XML serializers after the next major release.
>
> Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not
> to have dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can
> continue to reside as a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
>
> In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the
> JAXP 1.3 Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML
> streams, SAX events (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM,
> which could be based on common serializer code.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
--
Peter McCracken
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Email: peterjm@ca.ibm.com
Email: peterjm@apache.org
Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Gareth Reakes <ga...@embracemobile.com>.
Hey all,
This sounds good to me.
Gareth
On 24 Jul 2006, at 16:30, Brian Minchau wrote:
> +1
>
> I'm all for having a common serializer.
>
> I don't think there is a big enough community of committers justify
> moving
> the serialization code inside of Xalan into a separate project. For
> now I
> suggest that it stay as part of the Xalan project.
>
> There already is a 'build serializer.jar' target inside of the Xalan-j
> project and this builds a serializer that is rather small in
> footprint and
> independent of the rest of the code in Xalan-j. This should do. We
> only
> have to take some care about any synchronization of release
> schedules, but
> I think that is the lesser evil compared with the effort of
> splitting it
> out.
>
> - Brian
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Apache Xalan PMC Member
>
>
>
>
>
> Neil
> Delima/Toronto/IB
>
> M@IBMCA To
> j-dev@xerces.apache.org
> 07/11/2006
> 06:37 cc
> PM xalan-dev@xml.apache.org
>
> Subject
> Re: Moving towards common
> Please respond to serialization code...
> j-dev@xerces.apac
> he.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
> serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and
> Xalan-J
> dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same baseline
> capability
> as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted to improve its
> performance
> and fix bugs and it is being maintained by Xalan-J community and so we
> should use Xalan's serializer as the primary code base moving forward.
>
> Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since
> Xerces
> 2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but would
> first
> need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer which Xerces
> could
> pick up and use. I am willing to take on this work. Once this
> work is
> complete, we would be in position to deprecate Xerces's XML
> serializers
> after the next major release.
>
> Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not
> to have
> dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can continue to
> reside as
> a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
>
> In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the
> JAXP 1.3
> Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML streams, SAX
> events
> (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM, which could be based on
> common serializer code.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: j-dev-unsubscribe@xerces.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: j-dev-help@xerces.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Brian Minchau <mi...@ca.ibm.com>.
+1
I'm all for having a common serializer.
I don't think there is a big enough community of committers justify moving
the serialization code inside of Xalan into a separate project. For now I
suggest that it stay as part of the Xalan project.
There already is a 'build serializer.jar' target inside of the Xalan-j
project and this builds a serializer that is rather small in footprint and
independent of the rest of the code in Xalan-j. This should do. We only
have to take some care about any synchronization of release schedules, but
I think that is the lesser evil compared with the effort of splitting it
out.
- Brian
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Apache Xalan PMC Member
Neil
Delima/Toronto/IB
M@IBMCA To
j-dev@xerces.apache.org
07/11/2006 06:37 cc
PM xalan-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject
Re: Moving towards common
Please respond to serialization code...
j-dev@xerces.apac
he.org
Hi All,
It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and Xalan-J
dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same baseline capability
as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted to improve its performance
and fix bugs and it is being maintained by Xalan-J community and so we
should use Xalan's serializer as the primary code base moving forward.
Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since Xerces
2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but would first
need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer which Xerces could
pick up and use. I am willing to take on this work. Once this work is
complete, we would be in position to deprecate Xerces's XML serializers
after the next major release.
Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not to have
dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can continue to reside as
a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the JAXP 1.3
Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML streams, SAX events
(and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM, which could be based on
common serializer code.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: j-dev-unsubscribe@xerces.apache.org
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Michael Glavassevich <mr...@ca.ibm.com>.
Joseph Kesselman <ke...@us.ibm.com> wrote on 07/12/2006 09:08:27 AM:
> I haven't reviewed it myself in aeons, so I have no opinion beyond "Yup,
> good question." But I definitely approve of shared code, as long as
there
> aren't irreconcilable conflicts in demands upon it. If both the Xalan
and
> Xerces teams are convinced of that, I'd say go for it.
Several of the active Xerces and Xalan developers at the time (including
myself) felt this was the right direction. I still believe it is.
Producing the stand-alone serializer.jar [1] in Xalan 2.7.0 was an
important first step to making it possible.
> One architectural question: If it's to be shared, should it no longer be
> "the Xalan serializer" -- ie, one that lives in the Xalan project -- but
> instead be moved out to xml-commons?
xml-commons has been struggling to keep afloat as a project, particularly
since the majority of projects which were once part of the Apache XML
Project moved to top-level status. xml-commons might soon get moved into
another TLP where it would hopefully fare better and receive more
oversight. Even if xml-commons were in a healthier state I'm not sure
there's enough of a community around the serializer code to justify moving
it out of Xalan.
> Hopefully unnecessary reminder: The fact that code lives in another
Apache
> project doesn't make maintaining/enhancing it "someone else's problem";
> projects with dependencies also accept responsibility to keep those
> supporting projects healthy. The goal here should be to _share_ effort
and
> responsibility, not transfer it!
That is the goal.
> ______________________________________
> "... Three things see no end: A loop with exit code done wrong,
> A semaphore untested, And the change that comes along. ..."
> -- "Threes" Rev 1.1 - Duane Elms / Leslie Fish
> (http://www.ovff.org/pegasus/songs/threes-rev-11.html)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: j-dev-unsubscribe@xerces.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: j-dev-help@xerces.apache.org
[1] http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/whatsnew.html
Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: mrglavas@ca.ibm.com
E-mail: mrglavas@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Michael Glavassevich <mr...@ca.ibm.com>.
Joseph Kesselman <ke...@us.ibm.com> wrote on 07/12/2006 09:08:27 AM:
> I haven't reviewed it myself in aeons, so I have no opinion beyond "Yup,
> good question." But I definitely approve of shared code, as long as
there
> aren't irreconcilable conflicts in demands upon it. If both the Xalan
and
> Xerces teams are convinced of that, I'd say go for it.
Several of the active Xerces and Xalan developers at the time (including
myself) felt this was the right direction. I still believe it is.
Producing the stand-alone serializer.jar [1] in Xalan 2.7.0 was an
important first step to making it possible.
> One architectural question: If it's to be shared, should it no longer be
> "the Xalan serializer" -- ie, one that lives in the Xalan project -- but
> instead be moved out to xml-commons?
xml-commons has been struggling to keep afloat as a project, particularly
since the majority of projects which were once part of the Apache XML
Project moved to top-level status. xml-commons might soon get moved into
another TLP where it would hopefully fare better and receive more
oversight. Even if xml-commons were in a healthier state I'm not sure
there's enough of a community around the serializer code to justify moving
it out of Xalan.
> Hopefully unnecessary reminder: The fact that code lives in another
Apache
> project doesn't make maintaining/enhancing it "someone else's problem";
> projects with dependencies also accept responsibility to keep those
> supporting projects healthy. The goal here should be to _share_ effort
and
> responsibility, not transfer it!
That is the goal.
> ______________________________________
> "... Three things see no end: A loop with exit code done wrong,
> A semaphore untested, And the change that comes along. ..."
> -- "Threes" Rev 1.1 - Duane Elms / Leslie Fish
> (http://www.ovff.org/pegasus/songs/threes-rev-11.html)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: j-dev-unsubscribe@xerces.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: j-dev-help@xerces.apache.org
[1] http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/whatsnew.html
Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: mrglavas@ca.ibm.com
E-mail: mrglavas@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: xalan-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Joseph Kesselman <ke...@us.ibm.com>.
I haven't reviewed it myself in aeons, so I have no opinion beyond "Yup,
good question." But I definitely approve of shared code, as long as there
aren't irreconcilable conflicts in demands upon it. If both the Xalan and
Xerces teams are convinced of that, I'd say go for it.
One architectural question: If it's to be shared, should it no longer be
"the Xalan serializer" -- ie, one that lives in the Xalan project -- but
instead be moved out to xml-commons?
Hopefully unnecessary reminder: The fact that code lives in another Apache
project doesn't make maintaining/enhancing it "someone else's problem";
projects with dependencies also accept responsibility to keep those
supporting projects healthy. The goal here should be to _share_ effort and
responsibility, not transfer it!
______________________________________
"... Three things see no end: A loop with exit code done wrong,
A semaphore untested, And the change that comes along. ..."
-- "Threes" Rev 1.1 - Duane Elms / Leslie Fish
(http://www.ovff.org/pegasus/songs/threes-rev-11.html)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: j-dev-unsubscribe@xerces.apache.org
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Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Sandy Gao <sa...@ca.ibm.com>.
+1
The perf work and bug fixes will benefit Xerces; while the DOM3 work might
benefit Xalan and possibly other users of the serializer.
I do agree to Joe's earlier comment about sharing responsibilities. The
new serializer should be maintained by folks from both projects.
Thanks,
Sandy Gao
XML Parser Development, IBM Canada
(1-905) 413-3255
sandygao@ca.ibm.com
Neil Delima/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA wrote on 07/11/2006 06:37:53 PM:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been over two years since the idea of moving towards common
> serialization code was proposed and discussed on the Xerces-J and
> Xalan-J dev mailing lists[1]. Xalan's serializer has the same
> baseline capability as Xerces' Java serializer, effort was devoted
> to improve its performance and fix bugs and it is being maintained
> by Xalan-J community and so we should use Xalan's serializer as the
> primary code base moving forward.
>
> Xerces's the HTML and XHTML serializers have been deprecated since
> Xerces 2.6.2. We should now deprecate Xerces' XML serializers but
> would first need to migrate DOM Level 3 to use Xalan's serializer
> which Xerces could pick up and use. I am willing to take on this
> work. Once this work is complete, we would be in position to
> deprecate Xerces's XML serializers after the next major release.
>
> Xalan's serializer can be packaged as a standalone jar and does not
> to have dependencies on other components in Xalan. So it can
> continue to reside as a standalone serializer component in Xalan.
>
> In general, to achieve interoperability, users should be using the
> JAXP 1.3 Transformation API to serialize HTML, XHTML and XML
> streams, SAX events (and DOM) and DOM Level 3 to serialize a DOM,
> which could be based on common serializer code.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Neil Delima / IBM Toronto Lab
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xalan-dev&m=107593381313807&w=2
Re: Moving towards common serialization code...
Posted by Joseph Kesselman <ke...@us.ibm.com>.
I haven't reviewed it myself in aeons, so I have no opinion beyond "Yup,
good question." But I definitely approve of shared code, as long as there
aren't irreconcilable conflicts in demands upon it. If both the Xalan and
Xerces teams are convinced of that, I'd say go for it.
One architectural question: If it's to be shared, should it no longer be
"the Xalan serializer" -- ie, one that lives in the Xalan project -- but
instead be moved out to xml-commons?
Hopefully unnecessary reminder: The fact that code lives in another Apache
project doesn't make maintaining/enhancing it "someone else's problem";
projects with dependencies also accept responsibility to keep those
supporting projects healthy. The goal here should be to _share_ effort and
responsibility, not transfer it!
______________________________________
"... Three things see no end: A loop with exit code done wrong,
A semaphore untested, And the change that comes along. ..."
-- "Threes" Rev 1.1 - Duane Elms / Leslie Fish
(http://www.ovff.org/pegasus/songs/threes-rev-11.html)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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