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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> on 2013/09/03 23:06:53 UTC
[OGNL] Make use of logging?
I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
System.err for some reason.
In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all commented
and seem to have served debugging purposes.
I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at all, but it
seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am tending to enable
slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope. Once done we should
use the logging methods for System.out and printStackTrace.
Thoughts?
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RE: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lukasz Lenart
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:08
>
> 2013/11/7 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Benedikt Ritter
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
> >>
> >> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
> >
> > Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
> >
> > Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was
> going to be the request.
>
> I rather opt to have no logging layer at all or at least to
> have independent layer with default implementation based on
> j.u.l. - there is nothing worst than ten different logging
> libs in a project ;-)
>
I will submit a patch tomorrow, it will not require any additional libraries. It
will also be efficient.
Later there can be a "war" of logging style, but Wednesday there will be no
print lines.
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 9 Nov 2013, at 19:54, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On 7 Nov 2013, at 18:08, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>
>> 2013/11/7 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Benedikt Ritter
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
>>>>
>>>> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
>>>
>>> Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
>>>
>>> Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was going to be
>>> the request.
>>
>> I rather opt to have no logging layer at all or at least to have
>> independent layer with default implementation based on j.u.l. - there
>> is nothing worst than ten different logging libs in a project ;-)
>
> j.u.l is just another logging lib and pita.
> If we are not going with log4j2, the only sane choice is to use slf4j
> (unfortunately)
Addendum:
at the moment I would like to leave logging out.
We should release now and can discuss the logging issue in full length
after the inital release.
If we rush it now we might regret it later because its not so easily
reversible and probably
annoying for our users.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Łukasz
>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 7 Nov 2013, at 18:08, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
> 2013/11/7 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Benedikt Ritter
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
>>>
>>> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
>>
>> Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
>>
>> Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was going to be
>> the request.
>
> I rather opt to have no logging layer at all or at least to have
> independent layer with default implementation based on j.u.l. - there
> is nothing worst than ten different logging libs in a project ;-)
j.u.l is just another logging lib and pita.
If we are not going with log4j2, the only sane choice is to use slf4j
(unfortunately)
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Łukasz
> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 7 November 2013 17:08, Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org> wrote:
> 2013/11/7 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Benedikt Ritter
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
>>>
>>> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
>>
>> Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
>>
>> Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was going to be the request.
>
> I rather opt to have no logging layer at all
+1
> or at least to have
> independent layer with default implementation based on j.u.l. - there
> is nothing worst than ten different logging libs in a project ;-)
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Łukasz
> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>.
2013/11/7 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Benedikt Ritter
>> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
>>
>> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
>
> Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
>
> Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was going to be the request.
I rather opt to have no logging layer at all or at least to have
independent layer with default implementation based on j.u.l. - there
is nothing worst than ten different logging libs in a project ;-)
Regards
--
Łukasz
+ 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>.
Jason submitted his patch [1], what should we do? apply or leave it?
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OGNL-239
Regards
--
Łukasz
+ 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
2013/11/14 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> On 14 Nov 2013, at 10:01, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>
>> Le 10/11/2013 21:46, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
>>
>>> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
>>> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth, the install base of commons-logging in Debian is
>> ten times the one of slf4j, and there is no sign of it declining:
>
>
> Not sure how debian users install that package and why. Maybe its indirectly
> referenced by some widley used software package. I don't know.
> That statistics doesn't count much to me.
>
> Of course my experiences cannot be generalized too. They are subjective. But
> if you
> ask your audience who is using what and nobody uses commons-logging it makes
> you think.
> This has happened at multiple talks reaching a total of around 1500 persons.
>
>
>> We'll soon have an opportunity to improve commons-logging while
>> preserving backward compatibility thanks to the default methods in Java 8.
>
>
> Preserving backwards compatibility? Till when? 2020? Too much backwards
> compatibility
> broke Commons. While other projects are not doing enough for bc, we are
> doing too much.
>
> Java 8 is in future. In the meantime other logging frameworks will go on.
>
> I have seen people are annoyed of the back and forth of logging. Commons
> Logging ads just some spice
> to the problems of logging, but not a real solution. I have had some hard
> fights with promoting
> Log4j2. I am not going to put any effort to fix commons-logging as I don't
> see the value.
>
> Instead, I am going to spent my time to Log4j 2 and I am really surprised to
> hear
> that some Commons folks prefer to make commons-logging looking modern
> instead of contributing
> to Log4j2 which also provides a modern API.
>
> Anyway, its up to you folks. Have fun!
>
> Cheers
>
>
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 14 Nov 2013, at 10:01, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 10/11/2013 21:46, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
>
>> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
>> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
>
> For what it's worth, the install base of commons-logging in Debian is
> ten times the one of slf4j, and there is no sign of it declining:
Not sure how debian users install that package and why. Maybe its
indirectly
referenced by some widley used software package. I don't know.
That statistics doesn't count much to me.
Of course my experiences cannot be generalized too. They are subjective.
But if you
ask your audience who is using what and nobody uses commons-logging it
makes you think.
This has happened at multiple talks reaching a total of around 1500
persons.
> We'll soon have an opportunity to improve commons-logging while
> preserving backward compatibility thanks to the default methods in
> Java 8.
Preserving backwards compatibility? Till when? 2020? Too much backwards
compatibility
broke Commons. While other projects are not doing enough for bc, we are
doing too much.
Java 8 is in future. In the meantime other logging frameworks will go
on.
I have seen people are annoyed of the back and forth of logging. Commons
Logging ads just some spice
to the problems of logging, but not a real solution. I have had some
hard fights with promoting
Log4j2. I am not going to put any effort to fix commons-logging as I
don't see the value.
Instead, I am going to spent my time to Log4j 2 and I am really
surprised to hear
that some Commons folks prefer to make commons-logging looking modern
instead of contributing
to Log4j2 which also provides a modern API.
Anyway, its up to you folks. Have fun!
Cheers
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
2013/11/14 Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>
> Le 10/11/2013 21:46, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
>
> > From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
> > commons-logging. For me it is dead.
>
> For what it's worth, the install base of commons-logging in Debian is
> ten times the one of slf4j, and there is no sign of it declining:
>
> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=libcommons-logging-java
> http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=libslf4j-java
>
> We'll soon have an opportunity to improve commons-logging while
> preserving backward compatibility thanks to the default methods in Java 8.
>
I'm not sure those who use commons-logging (instead of any other logging
framework) want to upgrade to Java 8...
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
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>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 10/11/2013 21:46, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
For what it's worth, the install base of commons-logging in Debian is
ten times the one of slf4j, and there is no sign of it declining:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=libcommons-logging-java
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=libslf4j-java
We'll soon have an opportunity to improve commons-logging while
preserving backward compatibility thanks to the default methods in Java 8.
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Thomas Neidhart <th...@gmail.com>.
On 11/10/2013 09:46 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On 10 Nov 2013, at 21:24, henrib wrote:
>
>> Would you share why ? I'm sure it would be beneficial to others
>> (including
>> the commons logging community).
>
> Sorry I was short in my reply because I mentioned this a few times
> already. Didn't find the mails, so here we go:
>
> As you probably know, I have an interest in logging in general.
>
> Commons Logging doesn't support modern logging features. If you compare
> it to the Log4j2 API
> or to slf4j its just outdated. That said, people are already having a
> lot of problems with their
> logging dependencies. It's definitely not nice to have commons-logging
> in path, just because OGNL uses it.
> From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
> commons-logging. For me it is dead.
> And I certainly don't recommend anybody to use it.
>
> Ok, lets say you have an interest in fixing Commons-Logging and
> implement modern API features.
>
> Why wouldn't you spend the time in Log4j2s API? It serves the same
> purpose, just with a better API. It's already there. Log4j2 users can
> use different logging implementations under the hood, if they like. Now
> why should there be another logging facade which needs a *lot* of work?
>
> Before the small maintenance release this year there was a 5 yrs break.
> Logging went on. Commons Logging did not. It's too late. Even if Commons
> would put a lot of effort I doubt anybody would accept it.
The reason I made these small maintenance releases was simply due to the
fact that there was a critical bug which lead to various deadlock
reports by users, e.g. also on jenkins instances, which I thought was
really worth a fix let alone for the reputation of the commons project.
> Now we probably need some logging at OGNL. Do I want that outdated,
> irregulary maintained Commons Logging which seems to be used only at
> Tomcat?
Mark explained the reasons why commons logging is still used by tomcat
and I believe these are very valid, in this very specific case. The rest
of the java world is probably better off using log4j, slf4j or whatever
is currently en vogue.
> No absolutely not.
>
> Instead I am thinking commons logging implementation should stop. We
> will not win the fight against slf4j anymore. The only way out is
> unbelievable big marketing effort for the log4j2 api OR a new logging jsr.
I also think that commons-logging should be officially declared dead as
there are way better alternatives out there, and there is no community
behind logging anymore.
Thomas
> E-mail went longer than thought, sorry. Hope you understand a bit better
> why I can't support commons-logging going into OGNL. If any more
> questions please shout.
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://apache-commons.680414.n4.nabble.com/OGNL-Make-use-of-logging-tp4653577p4656667.html
>>
>> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 10 Nov 2013, at 21:24, henrib wrote:
> Would you share why ? I'm sure it would be beneficial to others
> (including
> the commons logging community).
Sorry I was short in my reply because I mentioned this a few times
already. Didn't find the mails, so here we go:
As you probably know, I have an interest in logging in general.
Commons Logging doesn't support modern logging features. If you compare
it to the Log4j2 API
or to slf4j its just outdated. That said, people are already having a
lot of problems with their
logging dependencies. It's definitely not nice to have commons-logging
in path, just because OGNL uses it.
From all the log4j talks I gave recently there were zero people using
commons-logging. For me it is dead.
And I certainly don't recommend anybody to use it.
Ok, lets say you have an interest in fixing Commons-Logging and
implement modern API features.
Why wouldn't you spend the time in Log4j2s API? It serves the same
purpose, just with a better API. It's already there. Log4j2 users can
use different logging implementations under the hood, if they like. Now
why should there be another logging facade which needs a *lot* of work?
Before the small maintenance release this year there was a 5 yrs break.
Logging went on. Commons Logging did not. It's too late. Even if Commons
would put a lot of effort I doubt anybody would accept it.
Now we probably need some logging at OGNL. Do I want that outdated,
irregulary maintained Commons Logging which seems to be used only at
Tomcat?
No absolutely not.
Instead I am thinking commons logging implementation should stop. We
will not win the fight against slf4j anymore. The only way out is
unbelievable big marketing effort for the log4j2 api OR a new logging
jsr.
E-mail went longer than thought, sorry. Hope you understand a bit better
why I can't support commons-logging going into OGNL. If any more
questions please shout.
Cheers
Christian
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://apache-commons.680414.n4.nabble.com/OGNL-Make-use-of-logging-tp4653577p4656667.html
> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by henrib <he...@apache.org>.
Would you share why ? I'm sure it would be beneficial to others (including
the commons logging community).
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 9 Nov 2013, at 18:23, henrib wrote:
> IMHO, commons logging is the best choice for this kinds of lib; it
> does not
> force the choice of the implementation library.
No. Commons Logging is NOT the best choice. It's one of the worst.
Just my opinion, but I will object to that.
> Henrib
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
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>
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RE: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by henrib <he...@apache.org>.
IMHO, commons logging is the best choice for this kinds of lib; it does not
force the choice of the implementation library.
Henrib
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RE: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benedikt Ritter
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:00
>
> Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
Now I need a sed script to replace j.u.l. to it...
Is Log4j2 the one that is desired? I figured SLF4J was going to be the request.
>
> Send from my mobile device
>
> > Am 07.11.2013 um 16:46 schrieb "Jason Pyeron" <jp...@pdinc.us>:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Lukasz Lenart
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:23
> >>
> >> 2013/11/5 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> >>>> On 5 Nov 2013, at 14:29, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional
> >> logging layer (as
> >>>> Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
> >>>> release?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent
> >> task for now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Currently I am sympathizing with just doing a new release. As
> >>> mentioned there are commented sysouts, but I believe we can
> >> deal with
> >>> that later.
> >>> It easier to enable logging instead of removing it.
> >>
> >> So, let's go then :-)
> >
> > I would be willing to submit a patch against trunk by Tuesday for
> > using a logging framework. (do I get to choose the framework?)
> >
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <be...@gmail.com>.
Yes, as long as it's Log4j2 ;-)
Send from my mobile device
> Am 07.11.2013 um 16:46 schrieb "Jason Pyeron" <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lukasz Lenart
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:23
>>
>> 2013/11/5 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
>>>> On 5 Nov 2013, at 14:29, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional
>> logging layer (as
>>>> Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
>>>> release?
>>>>
>>>> I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent
>> task for now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently I am sympathizing with just doing a new release. As
>>> mentioned there are commented sysouts, but I believe we can
>> deal with
>>> that later.
>>> It easier to enable logging instead of removing it.
>>
>> So, let's go then :-)
>
> I would be willing to submit a patch against trunk by Tuesday for using a
> logging framework. (do I get to choose the framework?)
>
> -Jason
>
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> - -
> - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
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RE: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lukasz Lenart
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:23
>
> 2013/11/5 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> > On 5 Nov 2013, at 14:29, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
> >
> >> So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional
> logging layer (as
> >> Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
> >> release?
> >>
> >> I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent
> task for now.
> >
> >
> > Currently I am sympathizing with just doing a new release. As
> > mentioned there are commented sysouts, but I believe we can
> deal with
> > that later.
> > It easier to enable logging instead of removing it.
>
> So, let's go then :-)
I would be willing to submit a patch against trunk by Tuesday for using a
logging framework. (do I get to choose the framework?)
-Jason
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>.
2013/11/5 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> On 5 Nov 2013, at 14:29, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>
>> So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional logging layer (as
>> Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
>> release?
>>
>> I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent task for now.
>
>
> Currently I am sympathizing with just doing a new release. As mentioned
> there
> are commented sysouts, but I believe we can deal with that later.
> It easier to enable logging instead of removing it.
So, let's go then :-)
Regards
--
Łukasz
+ 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 5 Nov 2013, at 14:29, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
> So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional logging layer (as
> Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
> release?
>
> I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent task for now.
Currently I am sympathizing with just doing a new release. As mentioned
there
are commented sysouts, but I believe we can deal with that later.
It easier to enable logging instead of removing it.
Cheers
Christian
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Łukasz
> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>
> 2013/9/4 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Benedikt Ritter [mailto:britter@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 4:28
>>> To: Commons Developers List
>>> Subject: Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
>>>
>>> 2013/9/4 Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>
>>>
>>>> 2013/9/3 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
>>>>> Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
>>>>> System.err for some reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all
>>>>> commented and seem to have served debugging purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at
>>> all, but
>>>>> it seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am
>>> tending to
>>>>> enable slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope.
>>> Once done
>>>>> we should use the logging methods for System.out and
>>> printStackTrace.
>>>>
>>>> Why not Log4j or commons-logging?
>>>>
>>>> And it's really annoying to have different logging libs in the same
>>>> project just because dependency uses that particular one - I like
>>>> Struts2 way where you can choose what logging library you
>>> want to use.
>>>> I don't know if developing additional thin layer is a huge
>>> problem -
>>>> we can copy paste from S2 ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that small libs should not have logging at all. Are
>>> you really sure it is needed (sorry don't have the time to
>>> dig into the code myself right know)?
>>>
>>
>> As someone who has had to modify the code, yes logging should exist.
>> I have a
>> fork of it with util.logging here.
>>
>>
>> --
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> - -
>> - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
>> - Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 -
>> - +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 -
>> - -
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>.
So what's the idea here? Should we apply additional logging layer (as
Jason proposed)? Or throw it away and start thinking about new
release?
I have reviewed TODOs and I haven't spotted any urgent task for now.
Regards
--
Łukasz
+ 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
2013/9/4 Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Benedikt Ritter [mailto:britter@apache.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 4:28
>> To: Commons Developers List
>> Subject: Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
>>
>> 2013/9/4 Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>
>>
>> > 2013/9/3 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
>> > > I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
>> > > Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
>> > > System.err for some reason.
>> > >
>> > > In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all
>> > > commented and seem to have served debugging purposes.
>> > >
>> > > I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at
>> all, but
>> > > it seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am
>> tending to
>> > > enable slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope.
>> Once done
>> > > we should use the logging methods for System.out and
>> printStackTrace.
>> >
>> > Why not Log4j or commons-logging?
>> >
>> > And it's really annoying to have different logging libs in the same
>> > project just because dependency uses that particular one - I like
>> > Struts2 way where you can choose what logging library you
>> want to use.
>> > I don't know if developing additional thin layer is a huge
>> problem -
>> > we can copy paste from S2 ;-)
>> >
>>
>> I agree that small libs should not have logging at all. Are
>> you really sure it is needed (sorry don't have the time to
>> dig into the code myself right know)?
>>
>
> As someone who has had to modify the code, yes logging should exist. I have a
> fork of it with util.logging here.
>
>
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> - -
> - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
> - Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 -
> - +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 -
> - -
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00.
>
>
>
>
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RE: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benedikt Ritter [mailto:britter@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 4:28
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
>
> 2013/9/4 Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>
>
> > 2013/9/3 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> > > I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
> > > Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
> > > System.err for some reason.
> > >
> > > In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all
> > > commented and seem to have served debugging purposes.
> > >
> > > I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at
> all, but
> > > it seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am
> tending to
> > > enable slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope.
> Once done
> > > we should use the logging methods for System.out and
> printStackTrace.
> >
> > Why not Log4j or commons-logging?
> >
> > And it's really annoying to have different logging libs in the same
> > project just because dependency uses that particular one - I like
> > Struts2 way where you can choose what logging library you
> want to use.
> > I don't know if developing additional thin layer is a huge
> problem -
> > we can copy paste from S2 ;-)
> >
>
> I agree that small libs should not have logging at all. Are
> you really sure it is needed (sorry don't have the time to
> dig into the code myself right know)?
>
As someone who has had to modify the code, yes logging should exist. I have a
fork of it with util.logging here.
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Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
2013/9/4 Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>
> 2013/9/3 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> > I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
> > Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
> > System.err for some reason.
> >
> > In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all commented
> > and seem to have served debugging purposes.
> >
> > I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at all, but it
> > seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am tending to enable
> > slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope. Once done we should
> > use the logging methods for System.out and printStackTrace.
>
> Why not Log4j or commons-logging?
>
> And it's really annoying to have different logging libs in the same
> project just because dependency uses that particular one - I like
> Struts2 way where you can choose what logging library you want to use.
> I don't know if developing additional thin layer is a huge problem -
> we can copy paste from S2 ;-)
>
I agree that small libs should not have logging at all. Are you really sure
it is needed (sorry don't have the time to dig into the code myself right
know)?
Benedikt
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Łukasz
> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
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http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
Re: [OGNL] Make use of logging?
Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@apache.org>.
2013/9/3 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>:
> I found 11 uses of e.printStackTrace and think its pretty bad.
> Including OgnlException overwrites printStackTrace and writes to
> System.err for some reason.
>
> In addition there are a lot of System.out's, but those are all commented
> and seem to have served debugging purposes.
>
> I believe small libs like OGNL should not have logging at all, but it
> seems some of the logging here might make sense. I am tending to enable
> slf4j, which is already used in the testing scope. Once done we should
> use the logging methods for System.out and printStackTrace.
Why not Log4j or commons-logging?
And it's really annoying to have different logging libs in the same
project just because dependency uses that particular one - I like
Struts2 way where you can choose what logging library you want to use.
I don't know if developing additional thin layer is a huge problem -
we can copy paste from S2 ;-)
Regards
--
Łukasz
+ 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
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