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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org> on 2011/04/05 11:26:01 UTC
[discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Hi all guys,
since I'm in the middle of the process of [discovery] review, I'd like
to discuss a little about the 'log' package[1]: It is a
commons-logging implementation wrapper that I don't understand the
reason why it has be implemented :(
Moreover the 90% of classes that use a Log instance, have a static
setter method...
I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
traditional way, WDYT?
Many thanks in advance!
Simo
[1] http://s.apache.org/eDl
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@scalaris.com>.
Simone Tripodi wrote:
> Hi Jorg,
> [discovery] has already been depending to commons-logging (at least
> from 0.4, released on 2008), I just limited to upgrade it to latest
> stable version.
> Any suggestion?
No, got for it. IMHO it's a bad idea anyway to put discovery into endorsed
libs...
- Jörg
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
Hi Jorg,
[discovery] has already been depending to commons-logging (at least
from 0.4, released on 2008), I just limited to upgrade it to latest
stable version.
Any suggestion?
I filled a new jira issue to discuss about it DISCOVERY-15
Danke,
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Jörg Schaible
<jo...@scalaris.com> wrote:
> Simone Tripodi wrote:
>
>> Hi all guys,
>> since I'm in the middle of the process of [discovery] review, I'd like
>> to discuss a little about the 'log' package[1]: It is a
>> commons-logging implementation wrapper that I don't understand the
>> reason why it has be implemented :(
>> Moreover the 90% of classes that use a Log instance, have a static
>> setter method...
>>
>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>> traditional way, WDYT?
>
> IIRC discovery was also used as a jar ca be put into lib/endorsed. Having
> references there to commons-logging (or slf4j) would be fatal.
>
> - Jörg
>
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@scalaris.com>.
Simone Tripodi wrote:
> Hi all guys,
> since I'm in the middle of the process of [discovery] review, I'd like
> to discuss a little about the 'log' package[1]: It is a
> commons-logging implementation wrapper that I don't understand the
> reason why it has be implemented :(
> Moreover the 90% of classes that use a Log instance, have a static
> setter method...
>
> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
> traditional way, WDYT?
IIRC discovery was also used as a jar ca be put into lib/endorsed. Having
references there to commons-logging (or slf4j) would be fatal.
- Jörg
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org>.
On 5 April 2011 10:49, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 April 2011 10:31, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>>> traditional way, WDYT?
>>
>> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
>> slf4j is more widely used.
>
> It's not outdated, it is just very stable, so has not needed a release.
> AIUI it's also very widely used as a dependency.
Agreed. [logging] is widely used and stable, if not much liked. No
need to change it or remove it.
Stephen
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
>> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
>> slf4j is more widely used.
>
> It's not outdated, it is just very stable,
must ... refuse ... to ... get ... dragged ... into ... another ...
logging ... discussion :)
must ... close ... gmail
:)
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
>> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
>> slf4j is more widely used.
>
> It's not outdated, it is just very stable, so has not needed a release.
> AIUI it's also very widely used as a dependency.
would you recommend anybody to use commons-logging? I wouldn't. It
seems to be common to use slf4j instead. Its to early for the attic,
but its going in that direction. log4j has still a huge user base but
my feeling tells me people are heading to logback if nothing happens
in logging world.
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 5 April 2011 10:31, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>> traditional way, WDYT?
>
> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
> slf4j is more widely used.
It's not outdated, it is just very stable, so has not needed a release.
AIUI it's also very widely used as a dependency.
> If we want to stick within apache code, I would take log4j - slf4j has
> a wrapper for it.
>
> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
See above. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
>
>
>> Many thanks in advance!
>> Simo
>>
>> [1] http://s.apache.org/eDl
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
> I didn't want to change too much thing for this maintenance release,
> so making existing stuff in a stable version would be fine, but I
> agree that next versions should switch to more updated dependencies.
OK :-) If you create an issue, I might be able to help a bit with the
logging stuff
> BTW you help me on saying that a commons-logging wrapper doesn't have
> too much sense to be maintained, WDYT?
Yes, I think so
Cheers
Christian
> Thanks in advance, alles gute,
> Simo
>
> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
> http://www.99soft.org/
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Christian Grobmeier
> <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>>> traditional way, WDYT?
>>
>> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
>> slf4j is more widely used.
>> If we want to stick within apache code, I would take log4j - slf4j has
>> a wrapper for it.
>>
>> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>> Simo
>>>
>>> [1] http://s.apache.org/eDl
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
Hallo Christian :)
I didn't want to change too much thing for this maintenance release,
so making existing stuff in a stable version would be fine, but I
agree that next versions should switch to more updated dependencies.
BTW you help me on saying that a commons-logging wrapper doesn't have
too much sense to be maintained, WDYT?
Thanks in advance, alles gute,
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>> traditional way, WDYT?
>
> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
> slf4j is more widely used.
> If we want to stick within apache code, I would take log4j - slf4j has
> a wrapper for it.
>
> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
>
>
>
>> Many thanks in advance!
>> Simo
>>
>> [1] http://s.apache.org/eDl
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>> http://www.99soft.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
> The only purpose of slf4j seems to be to cause unneeded fragmentation
> and discussions like this, Christian, which you are stirring now for
> the nth time (n > 5, for sure).
Well, then lets close this discussion.
Just want to add I am not a huge fan of slf4j for the reason you
mentioned above. Sorry for bringing it up again.
Cheers
>
> Jochen
>
>
>
>
> --
> I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No releases, no question, no discussion on commons-logging.
> Lack of development on Log4J
> Slf4J has a rising community and active development.
>
> commons-logging imho is the wrapper for a slowly dying log4j and a not
> usable sdk log.
Whenever I find myself forced to using slf4j (mostly, because some
damned application library forces me to), then it is inevitablly
slf4j-log4j. In other words, I am simply using slf4j in exactly the
manner you describe: As yet another wrapper over log4j.
And why is that? Because log4j is the very, very successful de-facto
standard for logging and every application server I have used in the
last 10 years (notable exception: Tomcat, which for some unknown
reason ships jul logging, but not slf4j) ships with Log4j built in.
Thanks god, they do.
The only purpose of slf4j seems to be to cause unneeded fragmentation
and discussions like this, Christian, which you are stirring now for
the nth time (n > 5, for sure).
Jochen
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
I switched from commons-logging/log4j to slf4j/logback time ago
just my 2 cents
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Jörg Schaible
<jo...@scalaris.com> wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>
>>>> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss
>>>> something?
>>>
>>> What gave you that impression?
>>
>> No releases,
>
> What else should a thin wrapper do?
>
>> no question,
>
> It simply works now.
>
>> no discussion on commons-logging.
>
> What for?
>
>> Lack of development on Log4J
>> Slf4J has a rising community and active development.
>
> 2 of ~100 deps use now slf4j in your development and all we need is slf4j-
> jcl.
>
>> commons-logging imho is the wrapper for a slowly dying log4j and a not
>> usable sdk log.
>
> It enables our customers to use the logger implementation of their choice
> (incl. their internal ones). Nothing more, nothing less. So why should we
> switch to a different wrapper? That does not make sense.
>
> - Jörg
>
>
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@scalaris.com>.
Hi Christian,
Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss
>>> something?
>>
>> What gave you that impression?
>
> No releases,
What else should a thin wrapper do?
> no question,
It simply works now.
> no discussion on commons-logging.
What for?
> Lack of development on Log4J
> Slf4J has a rising community and active development.
2 of ~100 deps use now slf4j in your development and all we need is slf4j-
jcl.
> commons-logging imho is the wrapper for a slowly dying log4j and a not
> usable sdk log.
It enables our customers to use the logger implementation of their choice
(incl. their internal ones). Nothing more, nothing less. So why should we
switch to a different wrapper? That does not make sense.
- Jörg
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
>> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
>
> What gave you that impression?
No releases, no question, no discussion on commons-logging.
Lack of development on Log4J
Slf4J has a rising community and active development.
commons-logging imho is the wrapper for a slowly dying log4j and a not
usable sdk log.
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@scalaris.com>.
Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
>> traditional way, WDYT?
>
> Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to.
Why?
> Its pretty outdated,
> slf4j is more widely used.
Not here in commons. slf4j is not used at all.
> If we want to stick within apache code, I would take log4j - slf4j has
> a wrapper for it.
>
> But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
What gave you that impression?
- Jörg
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Re: [discovery] org.apache.commons.discovery.log?!?
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
> I'd tend to remove that package and use commons-logging in the
> traditional way, WDYT?
Probably we should get rid of commons-logging to. Its pretty outdated,
slf4j is more widely used.
If we want to stick within apache code, I would take log4j - slf4j has
a wrapper for it.
But commons logging has no more sense meanwhile. Or did i miss something?
> Many thanks in advance!
> Simo
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/eDl
>
> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
> http://www.99soft.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
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