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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com> on 2002/02/07 23:37:36 UTC
Workflow
Hi,
I noticed that there was a workflow component in the
commons sandbox. I have read the proposal, and was
inquiring to see if there were more details.
Are we leveraging any existing work for this ? Are we
basing it on any standards such as the WFMC ?
Thanks.
- viraf
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Re: Workflow
Posted by bob mcwhirter <bo...@werken.com>.
> WFMC and friends are more appropriately used at what the Commons Workflow
> proposal calls the "Process" concept (which hasn't been fleshed out at all
> yet) than the "Activity" concept (which is focused on the lower level
> things).
Might want to check out the Savvion stuff. Yes, it's commercial,
but we certainly have a history of 'borrowing' ideas from commercial
and other sources.
They have the concept of the asynch process, with a synch/interactive
activity UI. All nicely coupled.
-bob
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Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by Kelvin Tan <ke...@relevanz.com>.
FWIW,
Fulcrum has a scheduler service which is an implementation of Unix's cron.
Regards,
Kelvin
----- Original Message -----
From: "James House" <ja...@interobjective.com>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
>
> I've got a Job Scheduler project under way at Source Forge - I'm not aware
> of one here at Commons.
>
> The project began last spring, and actually was "completed" in the sense
> that there was a release. In fact there are a number of people using
> it. However, the design was really shoddy, and I removed all of it, and
> restarted the project from "the ground up" this fall/winter. It is once
> again approaching a real release - within 2 to 4 weeks it should be there
> ... you know how development goes!
>
> So far it's got a really sucky web page, and a bunch of code checked
> in. The code is pretty full of JavaDOC, so anyone should be able to poke
> around the code and figure out the general ideas.
>
> If anyone's interested, please feel free to join the project - or download
> and use it in a few weeks when it's ready.
>
> I'd be happy to see the project end up over in Jakarta land, which I know
> is based on the project gaining a broad user base and good support record.
>
> You can find it here: http://quartz.sourceforge.net -- over the next few
> days you should see a lot more of it get "fleshed out" as I get a few more
> things off the drawing board and into real classes.
>
> James
>
> At 2/14/2002 05:17 AM -0800, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I noticed requests on this list in reference to
> >Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
> >believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
> >commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
> >
> >It appears to me that there is commonality betweeen
> >these three components. For calendar there is a need
> >to specify events that occur at some time. These
> >events could be one time, or recurring. Some action
> >takes place (such as notifying the user) at the time
> >of the event. The Job Scheduler needs similar
> >functionality - the action would be to run a job. The
> >calendar also has "To Do" lists (or worklists in
> >workflow).
> >
> >Is someone looking at these pieces from a holostic
> >view so that the various efforts can leverage the work
> >being done in other services ?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >- viraf
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> >Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> >http://greetings.yahoo.com
> >
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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>
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Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by James House <ja...@interobjective.com>.
I've got a Job Scheduler project under way at Source Forge - I'm not aware
of one here at Commons.
The project began last spring, and actually was "completed" in the sense
that there was a release. In fact there are a number of people using
it. However, the design was really shoddy, and I removed all of it, and
restarted the project from "the ground up" this fall/winter. It is once
again approaching a real release - within 2 to 4 weeks it should be there
... you know how development goes!
So far it's got a really sucky web page, and a bunch of code checked
in. The code is pretty full of JavaDOC, so anyone should be able to poke
around the code and figure out the general ideas.
If anyone's interested, please feel free to join the project - or download
and use it in a few weeks when it's ready.
I'd be happy to see the project end up over in Jakarta land, which I know
is based on the project gaining a broad user base and good support record.
You can find it here: http://quartz.sourceforge.net -- over the next few
days you should see a lot more of it get "fleshed out" as I get a few more
things off the drawing board and into real classes.
James
At 2/14/2002 05:17 AM -0800, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I noticed requests on this list in reference to
>Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
>believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
>commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
>
>It appears to me that there is commonality betweeen
>these three components. For calendar there is a need
>to specify events that occur at some time. These
>events could be one time, or recurring. Some action
>takes place (such as notifying the user) at the time
>of the event. The Job Scheduler needs similar
>functionality - the action would be to run a job. The
>calendar also has "To Do" lists (or worklists in
>workflow).
>
>Is someone looking at these pieces from a holostic
>view so that the various efforts can leverage the work
>being done in other services ?
>
>Thanks.
>
>- viraf
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by Incze Lajos <in...@mail.matav.hu>.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 05:17:22AM -0800, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed requests on this list in reference to
> Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
> believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
> commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
Didn't dig into it yet, but I see a "periodicity" project
in the sandbox that seemingly addresses what you are after.
incze
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Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Hey Jeff
Minor point - you might wanna remove the xerces.jar from periodicity CVS -
most commons projects use the build.properties[.sample] approach to locating
dependent jars. I found using one of the existing build.xml files helped -
like the build from commons-digester in commons proper.
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Prickett" <pr...@shpimp.com>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
> Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I noticed requests on this list in reference to
> > Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
> > believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
> > commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
> >
> > It appears to me that there is commonality betweeen
> > these three components. For calendar there is a need
> > to specify events that occur at some time. These
> > events could be one time, or recurring. Some action
> > takes place (such as notifying the user) at the time
> > of the event. The Job Scheduler needs similar
> > functionality - the action would be to run a job. The
> > calendar also has "To Do" lists (or worklists in
> > workflow).
> >
>
>
> Calendar would be me. There is a new commit as of yesterday with a first
> cut of an iCalendar implementation based on an earlier code base which
> was distributed with Jetspeed but not completed.
>
> You can check out the new codebase by checking out
> jakarta-commons-sandbox/periodicity
>
> > Is someone looking at these pieces from a holostic
> > view so that the various efforts can leverage the work
> > being done in other services ?
> >
>
> No work has yet been done to see what type of integration could be done
> with Workflow, Avalon, James, Turbine, or Velocity. If you would like to
> volunteer it would be very appreciated. Soon probably within a week I
> will be posting an "official" to do list along with a tentative release
> plan.
>
> The first order of business will probably be to get Periodicity working
> with Torque generated peers. From there we will probably concentrate on
> user access issues and integrating users, groups, and permissions.
>
>
> > Thanks.
> >
>
> thank you for your interest in Calendaring
>
> Jeff Prickett
>
> > - viraf
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> > http://greetings.yahoo.com
> >
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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Re: Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by Jeff Prickett <pr...@shpimp.com>.
Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I noticed requests on this list in reference to
> Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
> believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
> commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
>
> It appears to me that there is commonality betweeen
> these three components. For calendar there is a need
> to specify events that occur at some time. These
> events could be one time, or recurring. Some action
> takes place (such as notifying the user) at the time
> of the event. The Job Scheduler needs similar
> functionality - the action would be to run a job. The
> calendar also has "To Do" lists (or worklists in
> workflow).
>
Calendar would be me. There is a new commit as of yesterday with a first
cut of an iCalendar implementation based on an earlier code base which
was distributed with Jetspeed but not completed.
You can check out the new codebase by checking out
jakarta-commons-sandbox/periodicity
> Is someone looking at these pieces from a holostic
> view so that the various efforts can leverage the work
> being done in other services ?
>
No work has yet been done to see what type of integration could be done
with Workflow, Avalon, James, Turbine, or Velocity. If you would like to
volunteer it would be very appreciated. Soon probably within a week I
will be posting an "official" to do list along with a tentative release
plan.
The first order of business will probably be to get Periodicity working
with Torque generated peers. From there we will probably concentrate on
user access issues and integrating users, groups, and permissions.
> Thanks.
>
thank you for your interest in Calendaring
Jeff Prickett
> - viraf
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Calendar / Scheduler / Workflow
Posted by Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>.
Hi,
I noticed requests on this list in reference to
Workflow, Job Scheduler and Calendar capabilities. I
believe that Worklfow and Job Scheduler are part of
commons. Is anyone addressing the Calendar.
It appears to me that there is commonality betweeen
these three components. For calendar there is a need
to specify events that occur at some time. These
events could be one time, or recurring. Some action
takes place (such as notifying the user) at the time
of the event. The Job Scheduler needs similar
functionality - the action would be to run a job. The
calendar also has "To Do" lists (or worklists in
workflow).
Is someone looking at these pieces from a holostic
view so that the various efforts can leverage the work
being done in other services ?
Thanks.
- viraf
__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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Re: Workflow
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:31:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Workflow
>
> Hi,
>
> I am still not clear on the distinction being made
> between the Process and Workflow engines.
I'm actually distinguishing between the
org.apache.commons.workflow.Process interface (which doesn't exist yet)
and the org.apache.commons.workflow.Activity interface (which does, and
has a couple of different implementations available.
> I was also
> wondering you are referring to
> jakarta-commons-sandbox\workflow\PROPOSAL.html when
> you refer to Proposal (as I did not see a reference to
> process). If not, could you please refer me to the
> correct Workflow and Process proposals.
>
A more in depth background discussion is available at:
http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/proposal-workflow.html
because being able to script a series of Struts Actions was one of my
primary motivations.
> Based on my understanding of WfMC, a Workflow is made
> up of Activities. An activity may be "manual" or
> "automatic". Manual activities are synchronous - i.e.
> they involve users. Both should be part of a
> workflow.
>
> So in a sense a WorkFlow definition (XML) is the
> script that ties the processes. In addition, there is
> noting to prevent an Activity to be a script itself.
>
> I am interested in what you call Wizards and how you
> see them working.
>
If you download the source of the Workflow package, you can use the
"compile.wizard" and "deploy.wizard" targets to create a very simple demo
of this approach, in a way that only relies on servlet and JSP APIs (it is
not specific to Struts).
This demo was written before the introduction of conditional steps, so it
uses "goto" for flow control -- but you can get a feel for where I've been
thinking from this.
> Thanks.
>
> - viraf
>
Craig
>
>
>
> --- "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:37:36 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>
> > > Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> > <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> > <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > Subject: Workflow
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I noticed that there was a workflow component in
> > the
> > > commons sandbox. I have read the proposal, and
> > was
> > > inquiring to see if there were more details.
> > >
> > > Are we leveraging any existing work for this ?
> > Are we
> > > basing it on any standards such as the WFMC ?
> > >
> >
> > Hello Viraf,
> >
> > I looked at WFMC and a couple of the other "high
> > level" standards for this
> > sort of thing before designing the Workflow
> > component. They didn't really
> > address the sort of "low level" things that I was
> > interested in scripting,
> > which tend to be synchronous, short duration, and
> > executed by a single
> > individual. In particular, I wanted to be able to
> > script things like a
> > "wizard" dialog in web applications, where you had
> > to interact with the
> > user across multiple HTTP requests, which required
> > the ability to suspend
> > and resume execution of the script.
> >
> > WFMC and friends are more appropriately used at what
> > the Commons Workflow
> > proposal calls the "Process" concept (which hasn't
> > been fleshed out at all
> > yet) than the "Activity" concept (which is focused
> > on the lower level
> > things).
> >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > - viraf
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
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Re: Workflow
Posted by Eric Dobbs <er...@dobbse.net>.
On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 04:31 PM, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> I am still not clear on the distinction being made
> between the Process and Workflow engines. I was also
> wondering you are referring to
> jakarta-commons-sandbox\workflow\PROPOSAL.html when
> you refer to Proposal (as I did not see a reference to
> process).
The Javadocs have good descriptions and it's in there
where you'll find mention of "process".
-Eric
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Re: Workflow
Posted by Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>.
Hi,
I am still not clear on the distinction being made
between the Process and Workflow engines. I was also
wondering you are referring to
jakarta-commons-sandbox\workflow\PROPOSAL.html when
you refer to Proposal (as I did not see a reference to
process). If not, could you please refer me to the
correct Workflow and Process proposals.
Based on my understanding of WfMC, a Workflow is made
up of Activities. An activity may be "manual" or
"automatic". Manual activities are synchronous - i.e.
they involve users. Both should be part of a
workflow.
So in a sense a WorkFlow definition (XML) is the
script that ties the processes. In addition, there is
noting to prevent an Activity to be a script itself.
I am interested in what you call Wizards and how you
see them working.
Thanks.
- viraf
--- "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:37:36 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>
> > Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
> <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Subject: Workflow
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I noticed that there was a workflow component in
> the
> > commons sandbox. I have read the proposal, and
> was
> > inquiring to see if there were more details.
> >
> > Are we leveraging any existing work for this ?
> Are we
> > basing it on any standards such as the WFMC ?
> >
>
> Hello Viraf,
>
> I looked at WFMC and a couple of the other "high
> level" standards for this
> sort of thing before designing the Workflow
> component. They didn't really
> address the sort of "low level" things that I was
> interested in scripting,
> which tend to be synchronous, short duration, and
> executed by a single
> individual. In particular, I wanted to be able to
> script things like a
> "wizard" dialog in web applications, where you had
> to interact with the
> user across multiple HTTP requests, which required
> the ability to suspend
> and resume execution of the script.
>
> WFMC and friends are more appropriately used at what
> the Commons Workflow
> proposal calls the "Process" concept (which hasn't
> been fleshed out at all
> yet) than the "Activity" concept (which is focused
> on the lower level
> things).
>
> > Thanks.
> >
> > - viraf
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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Re: Workflow
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Viraf Bankwalla wrote:
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:37:36 -0800 (PST)
> From: Viraf Bankwalla <vi...@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Workflow
>
> Hi,
>
> I noticed that there was a workflow component in the
> commons sandbox. I have read the proposal, and was
> inquiring to see if there were more details.
>
> Are we leveraging any existing work for this ? Are we
> basing it on any standards such as the WFMC ?
>
Hello Viraf,
I looked at WFMC and a couple of the other "high level" standards for this
sort of thing before designing the Workflow component. They didn't really
address the sort of "low level" things that I was interested in scripting,
which tend to be synchronous, short duration, and executed by a single
individual. In particular, I wanted to be able to script things like a
"wizard" dialog in web applications, where you had to interact with the
user across multiple HTTP requests, which required the ability to suspend
and resume execution of the script.
WFMC and friends are more appropriately used at what the Commons Workflow
proposal calls the "Process" concept (which hasn't been fleshed out at all
yet) than the "Activity" concept (which is focused on the lower level
things).
> Thanks.
>
> - viraf
Craig
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