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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2012/09/28 17:21:26 UTC
[VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to DeviceMap podling
Hi,
IP clearance usually works by lazy consensus, but in this case I'd
like an explicit vote, as the donation described at [0] includes data
that when hosted on Github has caused a DMCA takedown request [1] to
which OpenDDR responded [2].
I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
copyright on that data is asserted.
The code parts of the OpenDDR donation are not affected, so I'd like
Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
[ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
[ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
other parts are ok)
IMO the alternative, if we don't accept the resources part of the
donation, is to ask OpenDDR to come up with a resources file that
contains only their own original work.
The vote is open for at least 72 hours (will leave it open a bit more
due to TGIF).
-Bertrand (DeviceMap mentor)
[0] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
[1] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
[2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
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Re: [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to
DeviceMap podling
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
> that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
> original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
> file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
> by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
> copyright on that data is asserted.
> [2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
> cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
Here's the header as captured from the Google cache:
Dear Developer, the WURFL file contains information about the
capabilities of mobile devices, capabilities and features.
The main scope of this file is to collect as
many information as we can about all the existing wireless devices
that access mobile pages so that developers will be able to build better
applications and better services for the users.
This project is open-source and is intended for developers working
with the WAP environment. All the information listed here has been
collected by many different people from many different
countries. You are allowed to use WURFL in any of your applications,
free or commercial. The only thing required is to make public any
modification to this file, following the original
spirit and idea of the creators of this project. This will help WURFL
to grow better and better every day. The use of WURFL is at your own risk,
there is no warranty that all agents and
capabilities are correct. All the information, as stated, has been gathered
by many users from many places around the world and as such there is
no guarantee about the reliability of this
information. Post any noteworthy modification and comment
to the file on the WMLProgramming mailing list on Yahoo Groups:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wmlprogramming/ Alternatively,
you can mail your modification to Luca Passani,
the WURFL maintainer, at passani at eunet dot no
IANAL, but I don't see anything about copyright assignment in there, and so my
interpretation is that all the original contributors maintain their copyright
but have granted implicit license for use under the terms described in that
header -- assuming that that header has been there since the beginning with
the same wording.
There are many copyright holders who are not going to be participating in this
grant. Don't we usually require 100% of copyright holders for a grant? If
that's not going to happen this time, what is the rationale for the
exceptional case?
It seems to me that we are as free as anyone else to use the data under the
terms of that header, but I'm unclear about releasing it as ASF code under the
ALv2.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.com>.
Ok, fair enough. My goal was to make everyone aware of the nastiness surrounding wurfl.xml, and that goal is hereby achieved :)
Now let's concentrate on the IP evaluation process. Here is my +1 for this vote.
Andrus
On Sep 28, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>> Hi Bertrand,
>>
>> OpenDDR combining forces with DeviceMap is great news! And having the resource file will make it very useful immediately.
>>
>> Regarding this vote.. While the original wurfl.xml was clearly open source, and I am going to cast a positive vote to accept it in DeviceMap, I am fairly certain that once we do that and start releasing it, we'll hear from Scientiamobile trolls. So is Incubator PMC an appropriate body to decide on this risk? Should the Board get involved?
>
> I don't think that the IPMC or the board is interested in a troll
> analysis. What we need here, as always, is a grant that satisfies both
> the legal grant of a license and the Foundation's requirement for a
> clear, voluntary, grant.
>
>>
>> (You are a Board member yourself of course :))
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> IP clearance usually works by lazy consensus, but in this case I'd
>>> like an explicit vote, as the donation described at [0] includes data
>>> that when hosted on Github has caused a DMCA takedown request [1] to
>>> which OpenDDR responded [2].
>>>
>>> I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
>>> that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
>>> original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
>>> file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
>>> by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
>>> copyright on that data is asserted.
>>>
>>> The code parts of the OpenDDR donation are not affected, so I'd like
>>> Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
>>>
>>> [ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
>>> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
>>> [ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
>>> other parts are ok)
>>>
>>> IMO the alternative, if we don't accept the resources part of the
>>> donation, is to ask OpenDDR to come up with a resources file that
>>> contains only their own original work.
>>>
>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours (will leave it open a bit more
>>> due to TGIF).
>>>
>>> -Bertrand (DeviceMap mentor)
>>>
>>> [0] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
>>> [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
>>> [2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
>>> cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>
>
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Re: [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Ok, fair enough. My goal was to make everyone aware of the nastiness surrounding wurfl.xml, and that goal is hereby achieved :)
Now let's concentrate on the IP evaluation process. Here is my +1 for this vote.
Andrus
On Sep 28, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>> Hi Bertrand,
>>
>> OpenDDR combining forces with DeviceMap is great news! And having the resource file will make it very useful immediately.
>>
>> Regarding this vote.. While the original wurfl.xml was clearly open source, and I am going to cast a positive vote to accept it in DeviceMap, I am fairly certain that once we do that and start releasing it, we'll hear from Scientiamobile trolls. So is Incubator PMC an appropriate body to decide on this risk? Should the Board get involved?
>
> I don't think that the IPMC or the board is interested in a troll
> analysis. What we need here, as always, is a grant that satisfies both
> the legal grant of a license and the Foundation's requirement for a
> clear, voluntary, grant.
>
>>
>> (You are a Board member yourself of course :))
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> IP clearance usually works by lazy consensus, but in this case I'd
>>> like an explicit vote, as the donation described at [0] includes data
>>> that when hosted on Github has caused a DMCA takedown request [1] to
>>> which OpenDDR responded [2].
>>>
>>> I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
>>> that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
>>> original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
>>> file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
>>> by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
>>> copyright on that data is asserted.
>>>
>>> The code parts of the OpenDDR donation are not affected, so I'd like
>>> Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
>>>
>>> [ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
>>> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
>>> [ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
>>> other parts are ok)
>>>
>>> IMO the alternative, if we don't accept the resources part of the
>>> donation, is to ask OpenDDR to come up with a resources file that
>>> contains only their own original work.
>>>
>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours (will leave it open a bit more
>>> due to TGIF).
>>>
>>> -Bertrand (DeviceMap mentor)
>>>
>>> [0] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
>>> [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
>>> [2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
>>> cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to
DeviceMap podling
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> Hi Bertrand,
>
> OpenDDR combining forces with DeviceMap is great news! And having the resource file will make it very useful immediately.
>
> Regarding this vote.. While the original wurfl.xml was clearly open source, and I am going to cast a positive vote to accept it in DeviceMap, I am fairly certain that once we do that and start releasing it, we'll hear from Scientiamobile trolls. So is Incubator PMC an appropriate body to decide on this risk? Should the Board get involved?
I don't think that the IPMC or the board is interested in a troll
analysis. What we need here, as always, is a grant that satisfies both
the legal grant of a license and the Foundation's requirement for a
clear, voluntary, grant.
>
> (You are a Board member yourself of course :))
>
> Andrus
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> IP clearance usually works by lazy consensus, but in this case I'd
>> like an explicit vote, as the donation described at [0] includes data
>> that when hosted on Github has caused a DMCA takedown request [1] to
>> which OpenDDR responded [2].
>>
>> I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
>> that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
>> original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
>> file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
>> by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
>> copyright on that data is asserted.
>>
>> The code parts of the OpenDDR donation are not affected, so I'd like
>> Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
>>
>> [ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
>> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
>> [ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
>> other parts are ok)
>>
>> IMO the alternative, if we don't accept the resources part of the
>> donation, is to ask OpenDDR to come up with a resources file that
>> contains only their own original work.
>>
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours (will leave it open a bit more
>> due to TGIF).
>>
>> -Bertrand (DeviceMap mentor)
>>
>> [0] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
>> [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
>> [2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
>> cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Hi Bertrand,
OpenDDR combining forces with DeviceMap is great news! And having the resource file will make it very useful immediately.
Regarding this vote.. While the original wurfl.xml was clearly open source, and I am going to cast a positive vote to accept it in DeviceMap, I am fairly certain that once we do that and start releasing it, we'll hear from Scientiamobile trolls. So is Incubator PMC an appropriate body to decide on this risk? Should the Board get involved?
(You are a Board member yourself of course :))
Andrus
On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> IP clearance usually works by lazy consensus, but in this case I'd
> like an explicit vote, as the donation described at [0] includes data
> that when hosted on Github has caused a DMCA takedown request [1] to
> which OpenDDR responded [2].
>
> I guess from our point of view the decision is whether the donation of
> that data can be considered voluntary, as the ownership of the
> original data is somewhat unclear. The header of the original data
> file [2] states that "the information listed here has been collected
> by many different people from many different countries", but in [1] a
> copyright on that data is asserted.
>
> The code parts of the OpenDDR donation are not affected, so I'd like
> Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
>
> [ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
> [ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
> other parts are ok)
>
> IMO the alternative, if we don't accept the resources part of the
> donation, is to ask OpenDDR to come up with a resources file that
> contains only their own original work.
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours (will leave it open a bit more
> due to TGIF).
>
> -Bertrand (DeviceMap mentor)
>
> [0] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
> [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
> [2] http://openddr.org/takedown.html (looks down right now, Google
> cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache just in case)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [CANCELED] [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation
to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Let's cancel this vote - I'll remove the mention of
> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip from [1] and start a standard lazy
> consensus IP clearance with the rest....
As the donation was mentioned in the DeviceMap incubation proposal
[1], I don't think another lazy consensus vote is needed, we'll just
proceed as with an usual podling initial code import.
-Bertrand
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DeviceMapProposal
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Re: [CANCELED] [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation
to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> ...I'll surely be cheering for DeviceMap going forward. It must be excrutiating
> to leave the OpenDDR resource data behind, but I'm glad that the podling will
> be taking the high road and I believe that this decision will pay dividends in
> the long run....
I think so - thanks very much for your support, and yes it's a
difficult decision (as the mere fact of starting this vote shows), but
the various comments have helped us make what looks like the best
choice.
-Bertrand
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Re: [CANCELED] [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation
to DeviceMap podling
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> Considering the various concerns expressed in this thread, along with
> Marvin's very valid points about the difficulty in establishing
> provenance of the original data, I don't feel good about accepting the
> resources part of this donation. I suspect the lack of votes means
> people are also unsure about how to best handle this, and no new
> points have been raised that help make the case for a +1.
>
> Let's cancel this vote - I'll remove the mention of
> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip from [1] and start a standard lazy
> consensus IP clearance with the rest.
That seems like a wise course of action.
I woke up this morning planning to vote -0 if no one had posted to
contradict the points raised yesterday. I was hesitant to vote -1 for a
couple reasons.
First, I placed more faith in the judgment of DeviceMap's Mentors than in my
own limited understanding of the situation as an outsider. That faith has now
been borne out. :)
Second, IANAL but if my understanding of the OpenDDR narrative regarding the
contents and origins of the OpenDDR data[1] is accurate, the DMCA takedown
notice that Github received from ScientiaMobile[2] is a farce -- and it boils
my blood to read of such an abusive, illegitimate gambit to assert proprietary
control over a resource built by others.
I'll surely be cheering for DeviceMap going forward. It must be excrutiating
to leave the OpenDDR resource data behind, but I'm glad that the podling will
be taking the high road and I believe that this decision will pay dividends in
the long run.
> We'll discuss on the devicemap dev list how best to address the
> resources part - the simplest seems to be for OpenDDR to contribute
> only the parts of that that they created themselves, and make it
> possible for users to combine that with other data sources, which is
> useful anyway.
Sounds great, best wishes!
Marvin Humphrey
[1] http://openddr.org/takedown.html
Google cache at http://s.apache.org/openddr_cache
[2] https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-01-04-scientiamobile.markdown
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[CANCELED] [VOTE] [IP clearance] OpenDDR resources file donation to
DeviceMap podling
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...I'd like
> Incubator PMC members to vote as follows:
>
> [ ] +1, accept the OpenDDR donation including the
> OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip data
> [ ] -1, do not accept the OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip (but the
> other parts are ok)
Considering the various concerns expressed in this thread, along with
Marvin's very valid points about the difficulty in establishing
provenance of the original data, I don't feel good about accepting the
resources part of this donation. I suspect the lack of votes means
people are also unsure about how to best handle this, and no new
points have been raised that help make the case for a +1.
Let's cancel this vote - I'll remove the mention of
OpenDDR-Resources_1.0.0.10.zip from [1] and start a standard lazy
consensus IP clearance with the rest.
We'll discuss on the devicemap dev list how best to address the
resources part - the simplest seems to be for OpenDDR to contribute
only the parts of that that they created themselves, and make it
possible for users to combine that with other data sources, which is
useful anyway.
Thanks to those who expressed their opinions here.
-Bertrand
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/devicemap-openddr.html
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