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Posted to server-dev@james.apache.org by "Peter M. Goldstein" <pe...@yahoo.com> on 2002/08/19 03:45:09 UTC
Jakarta James Nightly Build
To more knowledgeable heads than I,
Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
little disturbed by the fact that:
i) It is failing
ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
See the nightly build report here:
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
After examining the definition file here,
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
needs to be updated.
The build is currently failing because of unnecessary dependencies -
James builds off snapshots of the assorted Avalon subprojects and hence
does not need those project builds to succeed. So the dependency
entries need to be updated.
I'm willing to volunteer to do the jakarta-james.xml file update. My
big problem is that I don't know where the file is, and I don't think I
have write-access to it. I'd like to get one of the Apache elders to
give me a hand with this. As Peter Donald is listed in the nag tag, I'm
cc'ing him on this email. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
--Peter
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Paul Hammant wrote:
> Stephen,
>
>>> To more knowledgeable heads than I,
>>>
>>> Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
>>> little disturbed by the fact that:
>>>
>>> i) It is failing
>>> ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
>>>
>>
>> This explains a lot. With no notification of failures, the Avalon
>> Community have been moving along in ignorant bliss (relative to the
>> James Commnity). Over the last few days that has been discussion
>> concerning inconsitencies in Cornerstone jar brough about by some
>> recent testing I've been doing of James using the Avalon CVS builds
>> of Cornerstone. With gump working we would have spotted the issue
>> months ago.
>>
>> Getting this back in place would be really good becuse you can
>> validate that the Avalon Community are not braking anything as a
>> result of maintainance and service development.
>
>
> Err not true dude. The problem exists because casting (I think) which
> neither gump nor a guy doing 'ant clean, ant dist' can test for.
I stand corrected! A pure Gump run will only pick up compile time issues.
However, a unit test on someting link the SMTP server will catch this
sort of issue. Aside from that - getting in some unit tests on
individual Cornersone components could be highly valuable - I have a
sneaking suspision that the errors I'm seeing in the James runtime
testing are unrelated to James code and actually concern the file
persistence in the cornerston/store package - but its unconfirmed at
this stage.
Cheers, Steve.
>
>>> See the nightly build report here:
>>>
>>> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
>>>
>>> After examining the definition file here,
>>>
>>> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
>>>
>>> it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
>>> other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
>>> correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
>>> needs to be updated.
>>>
>>
>> Pete the right person to talk to - he knows this stuff inside out.
>
>
> Indeed he is. Confuses the hell out me me.
>
> - Paul
>
>
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>
--
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digital products for a global economy
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Stephen,
>> To more knowledgeable heads than I,
>>
>> Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
>> little disturbed by the fact that:
>>
>> i) It is failing
>> ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
>>
>
> This explains a lot. With no notification of failures, the Avalon
> Community have been moving along in ignorant bliss (relative to the
> James Commnity). Over the last few days that has been discussion
> concerning inconsitencies in Cornerstone jar brough about by some
> recent testing I've been doing of James using the Avalon CVS builds of
> Cornerstone. With gump working we would have spotted the issue months ago.
>
> Getting this back in place would be really good becuse you can
> validate that the Avalon Community are not braking anything as a
> result of maintainance and service development.
Err not true dude. The problem exists because casting (I think) which
neither gump nor a guy doing 'ant clean, ant dist' can test for.
>> See the nightly build report here:
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
>>
>> After examining the definition file here,
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
>>
>> it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
>> other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
>> correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
>> needs to be updated.
>>
>
> Pete the right person to talk to - he knows this stuff inside out.
Indeed he is. Confuses the hell out me me.
- Paul
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
I wrote,
> >But the point of Gump is that it tests the domain level build by building
> >every part of the domain from scratch.
Steve replied,
> Which from my point of view is the really valuble thing
Mine too, as a newcomer to the ideas of domain engineering I can totally
subscribe to the principles of Gump, and seeing Avalon as a provider of
domain commonalities, and James as an expression of variability, I can see
how the domain level build testing of Gump would help accelerate the
handling of James/Avalon issues.
I'm not sure what to do about Gump/James, but I do know where to start
poking around..
d.
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Danny Angus wrote:
>>Again, personally, I would not want James to build against the Phoenix
>>nightly builds. I'd prefer that it build against the snapshot
>>that is part
>>of James.
>>
>>
>
>But the point of Gump is that it tests the domain level build by building
>every part of the domain from scratch.
>
>
Which from my point of view is the really valuble thing - validation the
Avalon Framework, Excalibur Xxxx, Cornerstone component Xxxx, Phoenix,
etc. are all in sync - and delivering what your expecting. It goes a
long way in providing the James community much more specific information
about a problem - information that is sufficient for the Avalon
community to react appropriately if a problem does occur. If the same
thing were put in place with Cocoon the we (Avalon Land) would have a
rather nice early warning process in place.
Cheers, Steve.
>d.
>
>
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>
>
>
--
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OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> But thats the point isn't it? Gump isn't just there to make nightly
builds.
That isn't what I understood previously, so this is enlightening. :-)
> Of course if you'd asked on the list you could have been told. :-)
I refer you to the start of this thread: a message was posted to the list
saying that we had noticed that the Nighly Builds weren't working, and
asking questions. And answers have been posted.
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Fair enough. I would not have gotten that from the description of Nightly
> Build.
But thats the point isn't it? Gump isn't just there to make nightly builds.
> This comfirms what I said to Peter
What did you say to Peter? *please* don't refer, in an offhand way, to
conversations we haven't all been privy to.
> about how I thought the earlier builds
> had been done. You did them on a clean machine, and posted them back up.
Of course if you'd asked on the list you could have been told. :-)
d.
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> the premis of Gump, as I understand it, that it encourages
> continuous integration within the jakarta domain.
Fair enough. I would not have gotten that from the description of Nightly
Build.
> Its certainly reasonable to suggest a self-contained nightly build of
James,
> the problem is resources, the apache machines ('cept nagoya) run BSD so we
> can't build on them, therefore someone needs to donate the build location.
Thanks for explaining this, Danny. :-)
> I changed build.xml to put the downloads into a directory that can be
scp'ed
> across by a single command to make automatic releases easier, and I have a
> "clean" machine that I build releases on ...
This comfirms what I said to Peter about how I thought the earlier builds
had been done. You did them on a clean machine, and posted them back up.
(a) thanks, (b) how can anyone help?
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Noel wrote,
> > But the point of Gump is that it tests the domain level build
> by building
> > every part of the domain from scratch.
>
> That assumes that the domain is evolving in synch, and is intended to be
> released in synch. It works great for a domain level project, but that's
> not necessarily the case.
No, but it is the premis of Gump, as I understand it, that it encourages
continuous integration within the jakarta domain.
<snipped dull comment from self/>
> From that perspective, I could see two nightly builds: a domain
> level build,
> and the other a build of James against the components that it is
> intended to
> work with.
Its certainly reasonable to suggest a self-contained nightly build of James,
the problem is resources, the apache machines ('cept nagoya) run BSD so we
can't build on them, therefore someone needs to donate the build location.
I changed build.xml to put the downloads into a directory that can be scp'ed
across by a single command to make automatic releases easier, and I have a
"clean" machine that I build releases on, but I wouldn't like James to rely
on it, as its continued presence is outwith my control.
I would also be wary of entrusting my apache password or keys to a machine
on which there are other people with root.
Hence the reason I instigated the "latest" directory, to make builds
available at random when it seems worthwhile, and that aren't deleted by
someones cron job.
Anyone is welcome to cajole us into putting a new version in latest.
d.
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> But the point of Gump is that it tests the domain level build by building
> every part of the domain from scratch.
That assumes that the domain is evolving in synch, and is intended to be
released in synch. It works great for a domain level project, but that's
not necessarily the case.
> a newcomer to the ideas of domain engineering I can totally
> subscribe to the principles of Gump, and seeing Avalon as a
> provider of domain commonalities, and James as an expression
> of variability, I can see how the domain level build testing
> of Gump would help accelerate the handling of James/Avalon issues.
>From that perspective, I could see two nightly builds: a domain level build,
and the other a build of James against the components that it is intended to
work with.
At some point a project with dependencies needs to freeze the dependencies.
You can't just take their latest CVS.
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Again, personally, I would not want James to build against the Phoenix
> nightly builds. I'd prefer that it build against the snapshot
> that is part
> of James.
But the point of Gump is that it tests the domain level build by building
every part of the domain from scratch.
d.
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> This explains a lot. With no notification of failures, the Avalon
> Community have been moving along in ignorant bliss (relative to the
> James Commnity).
There are Avalon developers here on this mailing list aware of what is going
on. Some months ago, Paul Hammant kindly offered to keep James going well
with Phoenix, and to be responsible for changing the James infrastructure to
match changes in Phoenix; he was made a James committer for this purpose.
James has its own snapshot of Phoenix, allowing James and Phoenix to evolve
at their own pace.
Apparently, there was a decision made half a year ago to eliminate the
Component interface in favor of A-Better-Way. Because of some ... shall we
say "anemia" ... in the Mailet v1 API, there are Mailets that must get at
non-Mailet API functionality. They do that by requesting the
ComponentManager via MailetContext.getAttribute(), and going on from there.
It is not a problem to migrate the James code, but Paul has expressed
concern about third-party mailets (outside of the scope of the CVS).
My proposal is that Paul remove dependency upon the Component interface
within Jame's code, and support foreign matchers/mailets as follows. The
only documented way for a matcher/mailet to get the component manager is via
a specific mechanism, and the set of components is limited. We can provide
our own Component code that lies (and wraps) as necessary, until we can drop
that code entirely. James' stock matchers/mailets would show how to make
the transition.
Personally, I have no problem with Phoenix continuing to evolve, given that
they've accepted responsibility for converting James along.
Again, personally, I would not want James to build against the Phoenix
nightly builds. I'd prefer that it build against the snapshot that is part
of James.
--- Noel
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Peter M. Goldstein wrote:
>To more knowledgeable heads than I,
>
>Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
>little disturbed by the fact that:
>
>i) It is failing
>ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
>
This explains a lot. With no notification of failures, the Avalon
Community have been moving along in ignorant bliss (relative to the
James Commnity). Over the last few days that has been discussion
concerning inconsitencies in Cornerstone jar brough about by some recent
testing I've been doing of James using the Avalon CVS builds of
Cornerstone. With gump working we would have spotted the issue months ago.
Getting this back in place would be really good becuse you can validate
that the Avalon Community are not braking anything as a result of
maintainance and service development.
>
>
>See the nightly build report here:
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
>
>After examining the definition file here,
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
>
>it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
>other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
>correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
>needs to be updated.
>
Its also out-of-date relative some restructuring that took place of the
Excalibur project.
>
>The build is currently failing because of unnecessary dependencies -
>James builds off snapshots of the assorted Avalon subprojects and hence
>does not need those project builds to succeed. So the dependency
>entries need to be updated.
>
>I'm willing to volunteer to do the jakarta-james.xml file update. My
>big problem is that I don't know where the file is, and I don't think I
>have write-access to it. I'd like to get one of the Apache elders to
>give me a hand with this. As Peter Donald is listed in the nag tag, I'm
>cc'ing him on this email. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
Pete the right person to talk to - he knows this stuff inside out.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
The gump descriptors are part of Gump which is a proposal in the Alexandria
project. You can locate the descriptor by looking in cvs at
jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/projects/jakarta-james.xml
And send questions, diffs and patches to alexandria-dev@jakarta.apache.org
mailing list.
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:45, Peter M. Goldstein wrote:
> To more knowledgeable heads than I,
>
> Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
> little disturbed by the fact that:
>
> i) It is failing
> ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
>
> See the nightly build report here:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
>
> After examining the definition file here,
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
>
> it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
> other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
> correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
> needs to be updated.
>
> The build is currently failing because of unnecessary dependencies -
> James builds off snapshots of the assorted Avalon subprojects and hence
> does not need those project builds to succeed. So the dependency
> entries need to be updated.
>
> I'm willing to volunteer to do the jakarta-james.xml file update. My
> big problem is that I don't know where the file is, and I don't think I
> have write-access to it. I'd like to get one of the Apache elders to
> give me a hand with this. As Peter Donald is listed in the nag tag, I'm
> cc'ing him on this email. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> --Peter
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
--------------------------------------------------
Logic: The art of being wrong with confidence...
--------------------------------------------------
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Peter,
>To more knowledgeable heads than I,
>
>Noel and I have been looking at the nightly build process and are a
>little disturbed by the fact that:
>
>i) It is failing
>ii) It is failing without notifying james-dev
>
>See the nightly build report here:
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-james.html
>
>After examining the definition file here,
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/module_jakarta-james.html
>
>it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
>other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
>correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
>needs to be updated.
>
No, the bar (block archive) was simply replaced with jar. bars (now
jars) sit inside sars.
>The build is currently failing because of unnecessary dependencies -
>James builds off snapshots of the assorted Avalon subprojects and hence
>does not need those project builds to succeed. So the dependency
>entries need to be updated.
>
>I'm willing to volunteer to do the jakarta-james.xml file update. My
>big problem is that I don't know where the file is, and I don't think I
>have write-access to it. I'd like to get one of the Apache elders to
>give me a hand with this. As Peter Donald is listed in the nag tag, I'm
>cc'ing him on this email. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/project/jakarta-james.xml I think.
- Paul
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Re: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Danny Angus wrote:
>the problem is that Avalon isn't building, in particular
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-avalon-excalibur.html
>
>
Generalization isn't a good thing!
James has depedencies on a set of the Excalibur projects - not all of
Excalibur. What is needed is that the James gumjp description is
specific about the paricular Excalibur projects that James requires.
After all - Exalibur contains a lot of things that vary from new,
exciting and alpha, through to dull boring and stable.
Cheers, Steve.
--
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RE: Jakarta James Nightly Build
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
the problem is that Avalon isn't building, in particular
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-avalon-excalibur.html
> it is very clear that this definition is pretty far out of date. Among
> other things, the file refers to a James.bar, which if I recall
> correctly was the predecessor to the current James.sar. So the file
> needs to be updated.
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