[DISCUSS] Communicating in dev@

[Rafael Fernandez <rf...@google.com>]

Hi,

I think it's important we all discuss in the community what we want to
do to make sure we communicate effectively. I ask because I've seen
preferences expressed in dev@, and want to make sure we're conscious
about our practices.

I think we all want discussions to be accessible to all members of the
community, and we need to make sure decisions are recorded in the dev@
list. If we are not doing this well, we need to flag this. I hope this
is thread allows us to do so.

Some questions I have:

- Are we sharing docs that require installing software or forcing
creation of accounts? I don't think this is happening, but let's make
sure this is not the case.
- Are we having technical discussions and collaborating in tools such
as Google Docs without circling back to record decisions in the dev
list? If so, let' try our best to circle back to the dev list.
- Are we sharing trivially short information in doc form when an email
would suffice? If so, we can try our best to avoid that. Save a Beamer
a click and a new tab! :)

Thoughts?
r

Re: [DISCUSS] Communicating in dev@

[Tyler Akidau <ta...@google.com>]

+1 to all points made so far. I think docs are great for collaborating on
bigger proposals, but mailing list summaries are very helpful since it's
often unpractical to click through on each and every one (plus I can search
archives more effectively that way). And email for shorter proposals is
also much nicer.

-Tyler

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 11:59 AM Reuven Lax <re...@google.com> wrote:

> Thank you, this is something that has come up several times and is worth
> addressing.
>
> I tend to agree with your main points here. Google Docs makes a good tool
> for collaborative editing and commenting, and is great while iterating on a
> design. However once the iterative process is done, the final doc should be
> shared (on the dev list and on the Beam site)  in a directly-readable
> format. I assume best intentions and believe that people sometimes simply
> forget to circle back and share the final design doc (I know I have
> forgotten to in the past), so we need to make .a stronger effort to track
> these things.
>
> Things that don't require collaborative editing and commenting or things
> that are short enough to capture in a one-page email should go directly to
> the dev list. There's really no good need to share such documents in Google
> Doc form. Again I assume best intentions - I think people often use docs as
> a tool to write the proposals, and then simply share out the doc when they
> are done. When docs is not adding value, take a second to copy/paste the
> proposal into an email instead!
>
> Reuven
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:11 AM Rafael Fernandez <rf...@google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think it's important we all discuss in the community what we want to
>> do to make sure we communicate effectively. I ask because I've seen
>> preferences expressed in dev@, and want to make sure we're conscious
>> about our practices.
>>
>> I think we all want discussions to be accessible to all members of the
>> community, and we need to make sure decisions are recorded in the dev@
>> list. If we are not doing this well, we need to flag this. I hope this
>> is thread allows us to do so.
>>
>> Some questions I have:
>>
>> - Are we sharing docs that require installing software or forcing
>> creation of accounts? I don't think this is happening, but let's make
>> sure this is not the case.
>> - Are we having technical discussions and collaborating in tools such
>> as Google Docs without circling back to record decisions in the dev
>> list? If so, let' try our best to circle back to the dev list.
>> - Are we sharing trivially short information in doc form when an email
>> would suffice? If so, we can try our best to avoid that. Save a Beamer
>> a click and a new tab! :)
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> r
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Communicating in dev@

[Reuven Lax <re...@google.com>]

Thank you, this is something that has come up several times and is worth
addressing.

I tend to agree with your main points here. Google Docs makes a good tool
for collaborative editing and commenting, and is great while iterating on a
design. However once the iterative process is done, the final doc should be
shared (on the dev list and on the Beam site)  in a directly-readable
format. I assume best intentions and believe that people sometimes simply
forget to circle back and share the final design doc (I know I have
forgotten to in the past), so we need to make .a stronger effort to track
these things.

Things that don't require collaborative editing and commenting or things
that are short enough to capture in a one-page email should go directly to
the dev list. There's really no good need to share such documents in Google
Doc form. Again I assume best intentions - I think people often use docs as
a tool to write the proposals, and then simply share out the doc when they
are done. When docs is not adding value, take a second to copy/paste the
proposal into an email instead!

Reuven

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:11 AM Rafael Fernandez <rf...@google.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think it's important we all discuss in the community what we want to
> do to make sure we communicate effectively. I ask because I've seen
> preferences expressed in dev@, and want to make sure we're conscious
> about our practices.
>
> I think we all want discussions to be accessible to all members of the
> community, and we need to make sure decisions are recorded in the dev@
> list. If we are not doing this well, we need to flag this. I hope this
> is thread allows us to do so.
>
> Some questions I have:
>
> - Are we sharing docs that require installing software or forcing
> creation of accounts? I don't think this is happening, but let's make
> sure this is not the case.
> - Are we having technical discussions and collaborating in tools such
> as Google Docs without circling back to record decisions in the dev
> list? If so, let' try our best to circle back to the dev list.
> - Are we sharing trivially short information in doc form when an email
> would suffice? If so, we can try our best to avoid that. Save a Beamer
> a click and a new tab! :)
>
> Thoughts?
> r
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Communicating in dev@

[Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com>]

Great thoughts.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Rafael Fernandez <rf...@google.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think it's important we all discuss in the community what we want to
> do to make sure we communicate effectively. I ask because I've seen
> preferences expressed in dev@, and want to make sure we're conscious
> about our practices.
>
> I think we all want discussions to be accessible to all members of the
> community, and we need to make sure decisions are recorded in the dev@
> list. If we are not doing this well, we need to flag this. I hope this
> is thread allows us to do so.
>
> Some questions I have:
>
> - Are we sharing docs that require installing software or forcing
> creation of accounts? I don't think this is happening, but let's make
> sure this is not the case.


I have not seen this either. However, please remember that other tools are
usually not publicly visible by default.


> - Are we having technical discussions and collaborating in tools such
> as Google Docs without circling back to record decisions in the dev
> list? If so, let' try our best to circle back to the dev list.
>

In addition to circling back, it helps a lot to include a short summary in
the email at beginning of the discussion.


> - Are we sharing trivially short information in doc form when an email
> would suffice? If so, we can try our best to avoid that. Save a Beamer
> a click and a new tab! :)
>

+1 It is much easier consume short bits of information in the email form.
If it fits in an email please use it.


>
> Thoughts?
> r
>