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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> on 2013/04/17 12:53:39 UTC
Call for New Moderation Technology was Re: Call for moderators
I don't know if this is the right list or not (infra?), but I saw the topic here (and it is the 4th or 5th such request I've seen in the past 3-4 months) and in my mind it relates to improving the community, so I figured I'd discuss here first and then maybe we can take a proposal to infra@.
It really is time for the ASF to modernize moderation and our mailing lists. The current approach is very antiquated compared to other lists/groups I moderate (LinkedIn, Google Groups, Wordpress, etc.) and it is no doubt a drain on what is already a fairly constrained resource (i.e. committers, PMC members and heavy contributors).
Things that I think we need in order to make moderation easier:
1. Web interface where you can bulk process requests, either accepting in bulk or rejecting in bulk. The mail by mail approach is horribly tedious and is so often overwhelmed by spam that it takes too long to find the ones that aren't spam.
2. Figure out a way for official ASF communications to PMCs, etc. to NOT have to be moderated. I find it ridiculous after all this time that I have to moderate in messages from board members, or others, etc. to PMC and/or other lists. There should be official communication channels that authorized people can use when they sign in w/ their ASF credentials.
3. Better spam detection such that any email that is NOT spam, after sitting in the queue is automatically sent back to the user w/ instructions on how to subscribe to and properly send mail to the desired list. Anything that is spam is put into a separate folder automatically and left to die after X days like the current approach.
Other mailing list nice to haves:
1. For user (as opposed to dev) mailing lists, when someone sends an email to the list, automatically do a search in the archives first that replies back w/ potential answers and FAQs, thus offloading the I can't bother to perform a search first questioners.
2. Web interface. Web Interface. Web Interface. Don't get me wrong, I want a good old fashioned email, but a web interface would bring in a lot more people in my opinion b/c now I can pull instead of being pushed too. For some lists that I participate in less frequently, this would save a lot of work for my email server while still allowing me to participate in the list.
3. The ability for moderators to pin topics to the top for all users (i.e. FAQs, etc.)
4. Search
In other words, real forum software.
-Grant
On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> It seems that we need another moderator or two for this list - any volunteers?
>
> Ross
>
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Call for New Moderation Technology was Re: Call for moderators
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
> With real forum software, you get both. It's not an either/or thing.
> People who want email, get email. People who want web, get web.
That's what I hear about JIRA, but it's email notifications are such crap that
I ultimately stopped reading the Lucene dev list, even though I'm strongly
motivated to do so.
Marvin Humphrey
Re: Call for New Moderation Technology was Re: Call for moderators
Posted by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org>.
On Apr 17, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> On 17.04.2013 12:53, Grant Ingersoll wrote:
>> I don't know if this is the right list or not (infra?), but I saw the topic here (and it is the 4th or 5th such request I've seen in the past 3-4 months) and in my mind it relates to improving the community, so I figured I'd discuss here first and then maybe we can take a proposal to infra@.
>
> Infra for sure.
I'll move it over there.
>
>>
>> It really is time for the ASF to modernize moderation and our mailing lists. The current approach is very antiquated compared to other lists/groups I moderate (LinkedIn, Google Groups, Wordpress, etc.) and it is no doubt a drain on what is already a fairly constrained resource (i.e. committers, PMC members and heavy contributors).
>>
>> Things that I think we need in order to make moderation easier:
>> 1. Web interface where you can bulk process requests, either accepting in bulk or rejecting in bulk. The mail by mail approach is horribly tedious and is so often overwhelmed by spam that it takes too long to find the ones that aren't spam.
>
> +1
>
>> 2. Figure out a way for official ASF communications to PMCs, etc. to NOT have to be moderated. I find it ridiculous after all this time that I have to moderate in messages from board members, or others, etc. to PMC and/or other lists. There should be official communication channels that authorized people can use when they sign in w/ their ASF credentials.
>
> Ask infra to subscribe your email to all private-allow lists. It's a one-liner on the command line
> and they'll do it if asked.
>
>> 3. Better spam detection such that any email that is NOT spam, after sitting in the queue is automatically sent back to the user w/ instructions on how to subscribe to and properly send mail to the desired list. Anything that is spam is put into a separate folder automatically and left to die after X days like the current approach.
>
> +1
>
>>
>>
>> Other mailing list nice to haves:
>> 1. For user (as opposed to dev) mailing lists, when someone sends an email to the list, automatically do a search in the archives first that replies back w/ potential answers and FAQs, thus offloading the I can't bother to perform a search first questioners.
>
> I don't believe this will change anything. They won't bother reading, the same way they didn't
> bother doing a search in the first place.
Sigh. I agree, but it would be nice to try...
>
>> 2. Web interface. Web Interface. Web Interface. Don't get me wrong, I want a good old fashioned email, but a web interface would bring in a lot more people in my opinion b/c now I can pull instead of being pushed too. For some lists that I participate in less frequently, this would save a lot of work for my email server while still allowing me to participate in the list.
>
> Nabble. The integration with our mailing lists sucks though. Users still have to subscribe and when
> they don't (>90% of the cases) their emails show up at Nabble but possibly not on our lists.
>
>> 3. The ability for moderators to pin topics to the top for all users (i.e. FAQs, etc.)
>
> The Welcome message when subscribing can be modified to include an URL to such a resource, as can
> the footer on messages.
I was thinking beyond just the initial subscription. For instance, you could pin release notices to the top, or FAQs, etc. Just like in other forums.
>
>> 4. Search
>
> Google: site:mail-archives.apache.org <your term here>
> markmail.org
> Nabble
>
>>
>> In other words, real forum software.
>
> -1. I want it pushed to me and not having to go poll dozens of websites.
>
With real forum software, you get both. It's not an either/or thing. People who want email, get email. People who want web, get web. And I don't think it requires dozens of websites.
> Uli
>
>>
>> -Grant
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that we need another moderator or two for this list - any volunteers?
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
--------------------------------------------
Grant Ingersoll | @gsingers
http://www.lucidworks.com
Re: Call for New Moderation Technology was Re: Call for moderators
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
On 17.04.2013 12:53, Grant Ingersoll wrote:
> I don't know if this is the right list or not (infra?), but I saw the topic here (and it is the 4th or 5th such request I've seen in the past 3-4 months) and in my mind it relates to improving the community, so I figured I'd discuss here first and then maybe we can take a proposal to infra@.
Infra for sure.
>
> It really is time for the ASF to modernize moderation and our mailing lists. The current approach is very antiquated compared to other lists/groups I moderate (LinkedIn, Google Groups, Wordpress, etc.) and it is no doubt a drain on what is already a fairly constrained resource (i.e. committers, PMC members and heavy contributors).
>
> Things that I think we need in order to make moderation easier:
> 1. Web interface where you can bulk process requests, either accepting in bulk or rejecting in bulk. The mail by mail approach is horribly tedious and is so often overwhelmed by spam that it takes too long to find the ones that aren't spam.
+1
> 2. Figure out a way for official ASF communications to PMCs, etc. to NOT have to be moderated. I find it ridiculous after all this time that I have to moderate in messages from board members, or others, etc. to PMC and/or other lists. There should be official communication channels that authorized people can use when they sign in w/ their ASF credentials.
Ask infra to subscribe your email to all private-allow lists. It's a one-liner on the command line
and they'll do it if asked.
> 3. Better spam detection such that any email that is NOT spam, after sitting in the queue is automatically sent back to the user w/ instructions on how to subscribe to and properly send mail to the desired list. Anything that is spam is put into a separate folder automatically and left to die after X days like the current approach.
+1
>
>
> Other mailing list nice to haves:
> 1. For user (as opposed to dev) mailing lists, when someone sends an email to the list, automatically do a search in the archives first that replies back w/ potential answers and FAQs, thus offloading the I can't bother to perform a search first questioners.
I don't believe this will change anything. They won't bother reading, the same way they didn't
bother doing a search in the first place.
> 2. Web interface. Web Interface. Web Interface. Don't get me wrong, I want a good old fashioned email, but a web interface would bring in a lot more people in my opinion b/c now I can pull instead of being pushed too. For some lists that I participate in less frequently, this would save a lot of work for my email server while still allowing me to participate in the list.
Nabble. The integration with our mailing lists sucks though. Users still have to subscribe and when
they don't (>90% of the cases) their emails show up at Nabble but possibly not on our lists.
> 3. The ability for moderators to pin topics to the top for all users (i.e. FAQs, etc.)
The Welcome message when subscribing can be modified to include an URL to such a resource, as can
the footer on messages.
> 4. Search
Google: site:mail-archives.apache.org <your term here>
markmail.org
Nabble
>
> In other words, real forum software.
-1. I want it pushed to me and not having to go poll dozens of websites.
Uli
>
> -Grant
>
>
>
> On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>> It seems that we need another moderator or two for this list - any volunteers?
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>