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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> on 2016/11/19 11:52:39 UTC
[LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Hi,
after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments about
[lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I know
the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
ways:
- Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
- Custom JavaDoc doclets
- Put the information right into the JavaDoc
Anything else?
Benedikt
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Thiago Andrade <th...@gmail.com>.
I vote mainly for the use of
- Custom annotations
- Put the information right into the JavaDoc is also useful but I think
that maybe some indication on the name of the class might be a good idea too
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments about
> [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
> are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
>
> I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I know
> the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
>
> How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
> ways:
> - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>
> Anything else?
>
> Benedikt
>
--
Thiago Andrade
MSc in Computer Science, UFPE – Brazil
BSc in Computer Engineering, UPE – Brazil
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Pascal Schumacher <pa...@gmx.net>.
+1 to adding this information to the class javadoc
Am 19.11.2016 um 12:52 schrieb Benedikt Ritter:
> Hi,
>
> after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments about
> [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
> are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
>
> I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I know
> the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
>
> How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
> ways:
> - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>
> Anything else?
>
> Benedikt
>
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Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Custom annotations seems like the clearest way.
Gary
On Nov 19, 2016 3:52 AM, "Benedikt Ritter" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments about
> [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
> are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
>
> I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I know
> the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
>
> How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
> ways:
> - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>
> Anything else?
>
> Benedikt
>
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> An interesting question is whether we should provide a copy of the
>> annotations scoped as RUNTIME, which was the original way the code was
>> published out of the JCIP book.
>>
>> For our use case within Commons, we want a CLASS or SOURCE level
>> dependency. We do not want RUNTIME because we do not want a hard dependency
>> on Commons Lang from other Commons components.
>>
>
> http://pastebin.com/RKPGGdJ9 adds the "classic" four
> javax.annotation.concurrent annotations to two packages (.clazz and
> .runtime) in Commons Lang for CLASS and RUNTIME retentions.
>
I suppose we would need to add ASL headers to these.
Gary
> Gary
>
>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
>>> problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
>>>
>>> Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
>>>> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>>>>
>>>> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Should we:
>>>> >
>>>> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
>>>> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
>>>> > - should we depend on a jar like
>>>> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>>> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>>> >
>>>> > ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Gary
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
>>>> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to
>>>> [lang] with
>>>> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then
>>>> we can
>>>> > > use
>>>> > > > them all over Commons.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > WDYT?
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Gary
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>>> britter@apache.org>
>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > Hello,
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov.
>>>> 2016
>>>> > um
>>>> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false
>>>> sense
>>>> > of
>>>> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and
>>>> probably
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > code
>>>> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up
>>>> with
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > > same conclusion.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
>>>> > > > contradictory
>>>> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with
>>>> Javadocs.
>>>> > At
>>>> > > > > least
>>>> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > agreed.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread
>>>> safety.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > agreed.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are
>>>> going
>>>> > to
>>>> > > > end
>>>> > > > > up
>>>> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could
>>>> reuse
>>>> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>>> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>>> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to
>>>> put
>>>> > some
>>>> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether
>>>> the
>>>> > > real
>>>> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not
>>>> aware of
>>>> > > any
>>>> > > > > tool which can do that.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread
>>>> safety
>>>> > :-)
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Benedikt
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Gary
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>>> > britter@apache.org
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Hi,
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
>>>> > > comments
>>>> > > > > > about
>>>> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out
>>>> whether our
>>>> > > > > classes
>>>> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better
>>>> > documented.
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but
>>>> as far
>>>> > > as
>>>> > > > I
>>>> > > > > > know
>>>> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in
>>>> Java
>>>> > > > comments.
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety?
>>>> I see
>>>> > > > > several
>>>> > > > > > > ways:
>>>> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
>>>> @NotThreadSafe
>>>> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
>>>> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Anything else?
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Benedikt
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > --
>>>> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > > > > > <
>>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>>> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
>>>> > > b8
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>>> > > a=1617290459
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> > > > > > <
>>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>>> > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
>>>> > > > 18%22
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>>> > > a=1935182021
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>>> > > > > > <
>>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>>> > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>>> > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>>> > > a=1935182951
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > --
>>>> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>>> 1af9fe6a2
>>>> > b8>
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1617290459>
>>>> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>>>> 902a24de4
>>>> > > 18%22
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1935182021>
>>>> > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>>> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>>> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1935182951>
>>>> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
>>>> >
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1617290459>
>>>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>>>> 902a24de418%22
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1935182021>
>>>> > Spring Batch in Action
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>>> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>>> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1935182951>
>>>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>>
>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>>
>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>>> Spring Batch in Action
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> An interesting question is whether we should provide a copy of the
> annotations scoped as RUNTIME, which was the original way the code was
> published out of the JCIP book.
>
> For our use case within Commons, we want a CLASS or SOURCE level
> dependency. We do not want RUNTIME because we do not want a hard dependency
> on Commons Lang from other Commons components.
>
http://pastebin.com/RKPGGdJ9 adds the "classic" four
javax.annotation.concurrent annotations to two packages (.clazz and
.runtime) in Commons Lang for CLASS and RUNTIME retentions.
Gary
>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
>> problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
>>
>> Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
>>> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>>>
>>> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Should we:
>>> >
>>> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
>>> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
>>> > - should we depend on a jar like
>>> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>> >
>>> > ?
>>> >
>>> > Gary
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
>>> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
>>> > >
>>> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang]
>>> with
>>> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then
>>> we can
>>> > > use
>>> > > > them all over Commons.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > WDYT?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Gary
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>> britter@apache.org>
>>> > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > Hello,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov.
>>> 2016
>>> > um
>>> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false
>>> sense
>>> > of
>>> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and
>>> probably
>>> > the
>>> > > > code
>>> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up
>>> with
>>> > the
>>> > > > > same conclusion.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
>>> > > > contradictory
>>> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with
>>> Javadocs.
>>> > At
>>> > > > > least
>>> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > agreed.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread
>>> safety.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > agreed.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are
>>> going
>>> > to
>>> > > > end
>>> > > > > up
>>> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could
>>> reuse
>>> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to
>>> put
>>> > some
>>> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether
>>> the
>>> > > real
>>> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not
>>> aware of
>>> > > any
>>> > > > > tool which can do that.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread
>>> safety
>>> > :-)
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Benedikt
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > Gary
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>> > britter@apache.org
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Hi,
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
>>> > > comments
>>> > > > > > about
>>> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether
>>> our
>>> > > > > classes
>>> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better
>>> > documented.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but
>>> as far
>>> > > as
>>> > > > I
>>> > > > > > know
>>> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
>>> > > > comments.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I
>>> see
>>> > > > > several
>>> > > > > > > ways:
>>> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
>>> @NotThreadSafe
>>> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
>>> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Anything else?
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Benedikt
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > --
>>> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
>>> > > b8
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>> > > a=1617290459
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>> > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
>>> > > > 18%22
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>> > > a=1935182021
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>> > > a=1935182951
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>> 1af9fe6a2
>>> > b8>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1617290459>
>>> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>>> 902a24de4
>>> > > 18%22
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1935182021>
>>> > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1935182951>
>>> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
>>> >
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1617290459>
>>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>>> 902a24de418%22
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1935182021>
>>> > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1935182951>
>>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
An interesting question is whether we should provide a copy of the
annotations scoped as RUNTIME, which was the original way the code was
published out of the JCIP book.
For our use case within Commons, we want a CLASS or SOURCE level
dependency. We do not want RUNTIME because we do not want a hard dependency
on Commons Lang from other Commons components.
Gary
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
> problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
>
> Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
>> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>>
>> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Should we:
>> >
>> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
>> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
>> > - should we depend on a jar like
>> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>> >
>> > ?
>> >
>> > Gary
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
>> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
>> > >
>> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang]
>> with
>> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we
>> can
>> > > use
>> > > > them all over Commons.
>> > > >
>> > > > WDYT?
>> > > >
>> > > > Gary
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>> britter@apache.org>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hello,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov.
>> 2016
>> > um
>> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false
>> sense
>> > of
>> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably
>> > the
>> > > > code
>> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up
>> with
>> > the
>> > > > > same conclusion.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
>> > > > contradictory
>> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with
>> Javadocs.
>> > At
>> > > > > least
>> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > agreed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > agreed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are
>> going
>> > to
>> > > > end
>> > > > > up
>> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could
>> reuse
>> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put
>> > some
>> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether
>> the
>> > > real
>> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware
>> of
>> > > any
>> > > > > tool which can do that.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread
>> safety
>> > :-)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Benedikt
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Gary
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>> > britter@apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
>> > > comments
>> > > > > > about
>> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether
>> our
>> > > > > classes
>> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better
>> > documented.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as
>> far
>> > > as
>> > > > I
>> > > > > > know
>> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
>> > > > comments.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I
>> see
>> > > > > several
>> > > > > > > ways:
>> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
>> @NotThreadSafe
>> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
>> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Anything else?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Benedikt
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> > > > > > <
>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
>> > > b8
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > <http:////
>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>> > > a=1617290459
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> > > > > > <
>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>> > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
>> > > > 18%22
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > <http:////
>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>> > > a=1935182021
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Spring Batch in Action
>> > > > > > <
>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>> > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>> > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > <http:////
>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>> > > a=1935182951
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>> 1af9fe6a2
>> > b8>
>> > > >
>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>> am2&o=1&a=
>> > > > 1617290459>
>> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>> 902a24de4
>> > > 18%22
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>> am2&o=1&a=
>> > > > 1935182021>
>> > > > Spring Batch in Action
>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>> am2&o=1&a=
>> > > > 1935182951>
>> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
>> >
>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>> > 1617290459>
>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>> 902a24de418%22
>> > >
>> >
>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>> > 1935182021>
>> > Spring Batch in Action
>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>> > 1935182951>
>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
Gary
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>
> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Should we:
> >
> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
> > - should we depend on a jar like
> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> >
> > ?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
> > >
> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang]
> with
> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we
> can
> > > use
> > > > them all over Commons.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
> britter@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov.
> 2016
> > um
> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense
> > of
> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably
> > the
> > > > code
> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with
> > the
> > > > > same conclusion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
> > > > contradictory
> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with
> Javadocs.
> > At
> > > > > least
> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > agreed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > agreed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going
> > to
> > > > end
> > > > > up
> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put
> > some
> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the
> > > real
> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware
> of
> > > any
> > > > > tool which can do that.
> > > > >
> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety
> > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Benedikt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
> > britter@apache.org
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
> > > comments
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether
> our
> > > > > classes
> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better
> > documented.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as
> far
> > > as
> > > > I
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
> > > > comments.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I
> see
> > > > > several
> > > > > > > ways:
> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
> @NotThreadSafe
> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anything else?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Benedikt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
> > > b8
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <http:////
> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > > a=1617290459
> > > > >
> > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> > 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> > > > 18%22
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <http:////
> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > > a=1935182021
> > > > >
> > > > > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <http:////
> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > > a=1935182951
> > > > >
> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
> > b8>
> > > >
> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=
> garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > > 1617290459>
> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> > > 18%22
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=
> garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > > 1935182021>
> > > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=
> garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > > 1935182951>
> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1617290459>
> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> 18%22
> > >
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1935182021>
> > Spring Batch in Action
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1935182951>
> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
classpath issues if you include the google copy?
On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Should we:
>
> - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
> - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
> - should we depend on a jar like
> https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>
> ?
>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
> > dependency, I don't see why not!
> >
> > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang] with
> > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we can
> > use
> > > them all over Commons.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov. 2016
> um
> > > > 16:50 Uhr:
> > > >
> > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense
> of
> > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably
> the
> > > code
> > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with
> the
> > > > same conclusion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
> > > contradictory
> > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs.
> At
> > > > least
> > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > agreed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > agreed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going
> to
> > > end
> > > > up
> > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
> > > > >
> > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> > > > > (CLASS level retention).
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put
> some
> > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the
> > real
> > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware of
> > any
> > > > tool which can do that.
> > > >
> > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety
> :-)
> > > >
> > > > Benedikt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
> britter@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
> > comments
> > > > > about
> > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our
> > > > classes
> > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better
> documented.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far
> > as
> > > I
> > > > > know
> > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
> > > comments.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see
> > > > several
> > > > > > ways:
> > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anything else?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Benedikt
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > > > <
> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
> > b8
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <http:////
> > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > a=1617290459
> > > >
> > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > > > <
> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
> 31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> > > 18%22
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <http:////
> > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > a=1935182021
> > > >
> > > > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > > > <
> > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> > > > > >
> > > > > <http:////
> > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> > a=1935182951
> > > >
> > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
> b8>
> > >
> > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > 1617290459>
> > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> > 18%22
> > > >
> > >
> > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > 1935182021>
> > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > > 1935182951>
> > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Should we:
- package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
- in o.a.c.lang3, or,
- should we depend on a jar like
https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
?
Gary
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
> dependency, I don't see why not!
>
> On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang] with
> > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we can
> use
> > them all over Commons.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov. 2016 um
> > > 16:50 Uhr:
> > >
> > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense of
> > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably the
> > code
> > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with the
> > > same conclusion.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
> > contradictory
> > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs. At
> > > least
> > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
> > > >
> > >
> > > agreed.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
> > > >
> > >
> > > agreed.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going to
> > end
> > > up
> > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
> > > >
> > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> > > > (CLASS level retention).
> > > >
> > >
> > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put some
> > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the
> real
> > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware of
> any
> > > tool which can do that.
> > >
> > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety :-)
> > >
> > > Benedikt
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <britter@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some
> comments
> > > > about
> > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our
> > > classes
> > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far
> as
> > I
> > > > know
> > > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
> > comments.
> > > > >
> > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see
> > > several
> > > > > ways:
> > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> > > > >
> > > > > Anything else?
> > > > >
> > > > > Benedikt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > > <
> > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
> b8
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http:////
> > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1617290459
> > >
> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > > <
> > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> > 18%22
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http:////
> > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1935182021
> > >
> > > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > > <
> > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> > > > >
> > > > <http:////
> > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1935182951
> > >
> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1617290459>
> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> 18%22
> > >
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1935182021>
> > Spring Batch in Action
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> > 1935182951>
> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
dependency, I don't see why not!
On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang] with
> Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we can use
> them all over Commons.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov. 2016 um
> > 16:50 Uhr:
> >
> > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense of
> > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably the
> code
> > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
> > >
> >
> > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with the
> > same conclusion.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or
> contradictory
> > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs. At
> > least
> > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
> > >
> >
> > agreed.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
> > >
> >
> > agreed.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going to
> end
> > up
> > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
> > >
> > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> > > (CLASS level retention).
> > >
> >
> > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put some
> > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the real
> > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware of any
> > tool which can do that.
> >
> > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety :-)
> >
> > Benedikt
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments
> > > about
> > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our
> > classes
> > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
> > > >
> > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as
> I
> > > know
> > > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java
> comments.
> > > >
> > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see
> > several
> > > > ways:
> > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> > > >
> > > > Anything else?
> > > >
> > > > Benedikt
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > > <
> > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8
> > > >
> > >
> > > <http:////
> > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459
> >
> > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > > <
> > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de4
> 18%22
> > > >
> > >
> > > <http:////
> > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021
> >
> > > Spring Batch in Action
> > > <
> > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> > > >
> > > <http:////
> > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951
> >
> > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang] with
Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then we can use
them all over Commons.
WDYT?
Gary
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov. 2016 um
> 16:50 Uhr:
>
> > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense of
> > confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably the code
> > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
> >
>
> I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with the
> same conclusion.
>
>
> >
> > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or contradictory
> > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs. At
> least
> > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
> >
>
> agreed.
>
>
> >
> > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
> >
>
> agreed.
>
>
> >
> > The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going to end
> up
> > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
> >
> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
> code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> > (CLASS level retention).
> >
>
> The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put some
> tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the real
> thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware of any
> tool which can do that.
>
> So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety :-)
>
> Benedikt
>
>
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments
> > about
> > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our
> classes
> > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
> > >
> > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I
> > know
> > > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
> > >
> > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see
> several
> > > ways:
> > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> > >
> > > Anything else?
> > >
> > > Benedikt
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > <
> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8
> > >
> >
> > <http:////
> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > <
> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> > >
> >
> > <http:////
> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> > Spring Batch in Action
> > <
> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> > >
> > <http:////
> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
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<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
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<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
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Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>.
Hello,
Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 20. Nov. 2016 um
16:50 Uhr:
> Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense of
> confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably the code
> if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>
I thought about this again today on my way to work and came up with the
same conclusion.
>
> There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or contradictory
> annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs. At least
> that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>
agreed.
>
> IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
>
agreed.
>
> The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going to end up
> with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
> javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
>
> https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
> (CLASS level retention).
>
The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply to put some
tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether the real
thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not aware of any
tool which can do that.
So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread safety :-)
Benedikt
>
> Gary
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments
> about
> > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
> > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
> >
> > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I
> know
> > the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
> >
> > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
> > ways:
> > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
> >
> > Anything else?
> >
> > Benedikt
> >
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8
> >
>
> <http:////
> ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
>
> <http:////
> ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> >
> <http:////
> ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Let's recognize that these annotations can give you a false sense of
confidence, you still should read at least the docs and probably the code
if you REALLY care about thread safety.
There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong or contradictory
annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync with Javadocs. At least
that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread safety.
The other issue is that if we are serious about this we are going to end up
with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We could reuse
javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published in
https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
(CLASS level retention).
Gary
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> after my presentation about Apache Commons, there where some comments about
> [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find out whether our classes
> are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that better documented.
>
> I know that sebb has done some work in that direction, but as far as I know
> the information about thread safety is currently only in Java comments.
>
> How can we improve our docs with regards to thread safety? I see several
> ways:
> - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe, @NotThreadSafe
> - Custom JavaDoc doclets
> - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>
> Anything else?
>
> Benedikt
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory