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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr> on 2005/05/23 11:35:23 UTC
Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
Hi.
I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a visual tool would actually
help during development.
What features should it have, what it should do and what it shouldn't.
Has anyone used such a tool (perhaps for struts or jsf) ?
Does it really help in large-scale apps?
I'm asking all these 'cause (more out of curiosity) I've put together a
(display-only)
version of such a tool for Tapestry. I've posted some screenshots at
http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr/blojsom/blog/default/java/2005/05/23/Diagrams_for_Tapestry.html
and I'm now thinking of further steps.
Andreas Andreou
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Re: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
Christian wrote:
> Hi Andreas
>
> I personally think you're on the right track, but I didnt use tapestry
> in large-scale applications
> How do you position your tool vs. Spring Web Flow? Or, let me ask
> differently: could you
> imagine your tool beeing a frontend to Spring Web Flow?
Actually, I'm more interested in supoorting Tapestry, so I'd have to
wait and see if and how
Tapestry is going to be integrated with WebFlow or if it's going to use
another solution. There's
been some discussion on the dev list about how to best define page
transitions, e.t.c. but
I don't really know where we're heading...
>
> I got the impression, that, one way or another, the workflow has to be
> pulled out of (as you have
> described it) .jwc, page, html. java code into a separte container.
> Even in my own littul application,
> I itches me to do something in that direction, but first things first...
>
> Cheers
>
> cs.
>
> Andreas Andreou schrieb:
>
>> Hi.
>> I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a visual tool would
>> actually help during development.
>> What features should it have, what it should do and what it shouldn't.
>> Has anyone used such a tool (perhaps for struts or jsf) ?
>> Does it really help in large-scale apps?
>> I'm asking all these 'cause (more out of curiosity) I've put together
>> a (display-only)
>> version of such a tool for Tapestry. I've posted some screenshots at
>> http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr/blojsom/blog/default/java/2005/05/23/Diagrams_for_Tapestry.html
>>
>> and I'm now thinking of further steps.
>> Andreas Andreou
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
Patrick Casey wrote:
> Mostly I'm interested in a WYSYWIG page editor, like Visual Studio
>.NET has for its web forms. It should be possible to read the .page files
>and associated component definitions to generate object properties pages and
>whatnot, thus allowing you do set your properties and bindings right there
>on the editor in a fashion consistent with, say VB form design (or .NET form
>design for that matter).
>
>
This could be done by extending the .page editor of Spindle
> I'm less interested in graphical workflow editing because, in my
>experience, there isn't really a way to "universally" decouple workflow
>description from an underlying system implementation.
>
I tend to agree with this opinion and that's why the tool I created only
shows
an overview of your application, instead of allowing workflow editing.
For a tool to be useful, it really has to take into account how we
(developers)
create (assemble) web applications - Spindle and Palette are great for
creating
individual pages, but I think there's a gap in the pages-components
interraction
domain. For instance, from the overview graph that this tool created, I
just saw
that 2 of my pages don't have any navigation path leading to them. They
ware just old
versions of other pages and were somehow carried along into the current
version.
>Which means you either
>get a tightly coupled workflow editor which works well only if your system
>follows certain rules, or a loosely coupled workflow editor which looks sort
>of spiffy by doesn't actually do anything.
>
> --- Pat
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Christian [mailto:christian@bluepenguin.ch]
>>Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:11 PM
>>To: Tapestry users
>>Subject: Re: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
>>
>>Hi Andreas
>>
>>I personally think you're on the right track, but I didnt use tapestry
>>in large-scale applications
>>How do you position your tool vs. Spring Web Flow? Or, let me ask
>>differently: could you
>>imagine your tool beeing a frontend to Spring Web Flow?
>>
>>I got the impression, that, one way or another, the workflow has to be
>>pulled out of (as you have
>>described it) .jwc, page, html. java code into a separte container. Even
>>in my own littul application,
>>I itches me to do something in that direction, but first things first...
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>cs.
>>
>>Andreas Andreou schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi.
>>>I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a visual tool would actually
>>>help during development.
>>>What features should it have, what it should do and what it shouldn't.
>>>Has anyone used such a tool (perhaps for struts or jsf) ?
>>>Does it really help in large-scale apps?
>>>I'm asking all these 'cause (more out of curiosity) I've put together
>>>a (display-only)
>>>version of such a tool for Tapestry. I've posted some screenshots at
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr/blojsom/blog/default/java/2005/05/23/Diagrams_for
>>_Tapestry.html
>>
>>
>>>and I'm now thinking of further steps.
>>>Andreas Andreou
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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RE: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
Posted by Patrick Casey <pa...@adelphia.net>.
Mostly I'm interested in a WYSYWIG page editor, like Visual Studio
.NET has for its web forms. It should be possible to read the .page files
and associated component definitions to generate object properties pages and
whatnot, thus allowing you do set your properties and bindings right there
on the editor in a fashion consistent with, say VB form design (or .NET form
design for that matter).
I'm less interested in graphical workflow editing because, in my
experience, there isn't really a way to "universally" decouple workflow
description from an underlying system implementation. Which means you either
get a tightly coupled workflow editor which works well only if your system
follows certain rules, or a loosely coupled workflow editor which looks sort
of spiffy by doesn't actually do anything.
--- Pat
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian [mailto:christian@bluepenguin.ch]
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:11 PM
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Re: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
>
> Hi Andreas
>
> I personally think you're on the right track, but I didnt use tapestry
> in large-scale applications
> How do you position your tool vs. Spring Web Flow? Or, let me ask
> differently: could you
> imagine your tool beeing a frontend to Spring Web Flow?
>
> I got the impression, that, one way or another, the workflow has to be
> pulled out of (as you have
> described it) .jwc, page, html. java code into a separte container. Even
> in my own littul application,
> I itches me to do something in that direction, but first things first...
>
> Cheers
>
> cs.
>
> Andreas Andreou schrieb:
>
> > Hi.
> > I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a visual tool would actually
> > help during development.
> > What features should it have, what it should do and what it shouldn't.
> > Has anyone used such a tool (perhaps for struts or jsf) ?
> > Does it really help in large-scale apps?
> > I'm asking all these 'cause (more out of curiosity) I've put together
> > a (display-only)
> > version of such a tool for Tapestry. I've posted some screenshots at
> >
> http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr/blojsom/blog/default/java/2005/05/23/Diagrams_for
> _Tapestry.html
> >
> > and I'm now thinking of further steps.
> > Andreas Andreou
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
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Re: Would a Visual Tool be helpful to Tapestry?
Posted by Christian <ch...@bluepenguin.ch>.
Hi Andreas
I personally think you're on the right track, but I didnt use tapestry
in large-scale applications
How do you position your tool vs. Spring Web Flow? Or, let me ask
differently: could you
imagine your tool beeing a frontend to Spring Web Flow?
I got the impression, that, one way or another, the workflow has to be
pulled out of (as you have
described it) .jwc, page, html. java code into a separte container. Even
in my own littul application,
I itches me to do something in that direction, but first things first...
Cheers
cs.
Andreas Andreou schrieb:
> Hi.
> I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a visual tool would actually
> help during development.
> What features should it have, what it should do and what it shouldn't.
> Has anyone used such a tool (perhaps for struts or jsf) ?
> Does it really help in large-scale apps?
> I'm asking all these 'cause (more out of curiosity) I've put together
> a (display-only)
> version of such a tool for Tapestry. I've posted some screenshots at
> http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr/blojsom/blog/default/java/2005/05/23/Diagrams_for_Tapestry.html
>
> and I'm now thinking of further steps.
> Andreas Andreou
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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