camel and business flows

[Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good idea or
other open source framework will do better (faster?)?

I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.

- Romain

Re: camel and business flows

[Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>]

thanks for these  answers.

- Romain

2011/4/17 Richard Kettelerij <ri...@gmail.com>

> Note that Activiti (http://activiti.org) integrates with Camel:
>
> https://fisheye.codehaus.org/browse/activiti/activiti/trunk/modules/activiti-camel
> .
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Romain,
> >
> > the first target of Camel is integration and EIP. So it's more
> integration
> > oriented than business oriented.
> >
> > If from a technical point of view, it's possible to use Camel to
> implement
> > business flows, I think that pure player in this domain is more flexible
> and
> > provide more tooling for business analyst.
> >
> > By pure players, I mean BP engines such as Activiti, jBPM, etc.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> >
> > On 04/17/2011 04:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good
> idea
> >> or
> >> other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
> >>
> >> I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
> >> good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
> >>
> >> - Romain
> >>
> >>
>

Re: camel and business flows

[Richard Kettelerij <ri...@gmail.com>]

Note that Activiti (http://activiti.org) integrates with Camel:
https://fisheye.codehaus.org/browse/activiti/activiti/trunk/modules/activiti-camel
.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>wrote:

> Hi Romain,
>
> the first target of Camel is integration and EIP. So it's more integration
> oriented than business oriented.
>
> If from a technical point of view, it's possible to use Camel to implement
> business flows, I think that pure player in this domain is more flexible and
> provide more tooling for business analyst.
>
> By pure players, I mean BP engines such as Activiti, jBPM, etc.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 04/17/2011 04:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good idea
>> or
>> other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
>>
>> I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
>> good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
>>
>> - Romain
>>
>>

Re: camel and business flows

[Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>]

I think the main difference between camel and a typical bpm engine are 
human tasks.

Camel is a good choice for automated flows without human interaction. 
BPM engines typically focus on integrating human tasks with automated tasks.
So it might in fact be a good idea to combine both.

Christian


Am 17.04.2011 18:26, schrieb Jean-Baptiste Onofré:
> Hi Romain,
>
> the first target of Camel is integration and EIP. So it's more 
> integration oriented than business oriented.
>
> If from a technical point of view, it's possible to use Camel to 
> implement business flows, I think that pure player in this domain is 
> more flexible and provide more tooling for business analyst.
>
> By pure players, I mean BP engines such as Activiti, jBPM, etc.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 04/17/2011 04:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good 
>> idea or
>> other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
>>
>> I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
>> good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
>>
>> - Romain
>>
>

-- 
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de

Re: camel and business flows

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>]

Hi Romain,

the first target of Camel is integration and EIP. So it's more 
integration oriented than business oriented.

If from a technical point of view, it's possible to use Camel to 
implement business flows, I think that pure player in this domain is 
more flexible and provide more tooling for business analyst.

By pure players, I mean BP engines such as Activiti, jBPM, etc.

Regards
JB

On 04/17/2011 04:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good idea or
> other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
>
> I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
> good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
>
> - Romain
>

Re: camel and business flows

[Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>]

Hi Charles,

thanks for your answer,

i asked it just because i found the dynamic routing for example is a bit
slow compared to other technics (because it is very generic which is pretty
nice for integration routes :)).

Thanks again, i think i'll have a try and choose after but i'm more
confident now to use camel for such a purpose.

- Romain

2011/4/22 Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com>

> Hi Romain,
>
> If by business flows, you mean flows developed using BPEL or BPMN, I
> would like to say that you can develop something similar in Camel
> without the dependency with XML files describing the flows, link
> between the webservices as this is the case with BPEL
>
> You can create small camel routes containing beans and starting from a
> Transactional client (jms, jdbc, ...) and placing at the end the
> message, objects into a new Transactional client. In this case, a
> camel can be compared to a collection of process where the status of
> the flow is not saved in to a DB but by example the queue used to
> place the messages represent the status of the flow (ex : queue:in,
> queue:validation, queue:transformation). With persistence JMS Message,
> you can recover messages and restart your camel route from where it
> fails during a crash. You can also combine Camel Routes with a BPMN
> engine like Activiti (camel-activiti) to leverage on the best of Camel
> and Business Process Engine.
>
> Just my 2cents
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau
> <rm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good idea
> or
> > other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
> >
> > I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
> > good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
> >
> > - Romain
> >
>

Re: camel and business flows

[Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com>]

Hi Romain,

If by business flows, you mean flows developed using BPEL or BPMN, I
would like to say that you can develop something similar in Camel
without the dependency with XML files describing the flows, link
between the webservices as this is the case with BPEL

You can create small camel routes containing beans and starting from a
Transactional client (jms, jdbc, ...) and placing at the end the
message, objects into a new Transactional client. In this case, a
camel can be compared to a collection of process where the status of
the flow is not saved in to a DB but by example the queue used to
place the messages represent the status of the flow (ex : queue:in,
queue:validation, queue:transformation). With persistence JMS Message,
you can recover messages and restart your camel route from where it
fails during a crash. You can also combine Camel Routes with a BPMN
engine like Activiti (camel-activiti) to leverage on the best of Camel
and Business Process Engine.

Just my 2cents

Regards,

Charles

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau
<rm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> what do you think about using camel for business flows? Is it a good idea or
> other open source framework will do better (faster?)?
>
> I ask it because technically i see how to do but i don't know if it is a
> good idea because it is not the first goal of camel.
>
> - Romain
>